Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread *Read 1st post*

[Mark Nguyen]

Yeah, I agree that the pyramid shape is just a generic "there's something here" symbol. the circling word "unknown" around it kinda gives it away, unless there's a bunch of super-secret science nerds out there. The other ship "symbols" are pretty detailed, so if it were something we knew, I'd think they'd use a more accureace shape than that.

Can we get some referenced numbers about the fleet? Where does it say that M-25 is the 11th emmigration fleet?

I'm also starting to think that designations are arbitrary... M-7 was supposed to be the 37th emmigration fleet, but the seventh New Macross class combo, hence the "07" number painted all over Battle 7. Thus, it MIGHT be that M-25 is the 25th New Macross class combo, BUT the ship joined (and took over) the 11th/25th emmigration fleet as the flagship sometime after they left Earth. For all we know, some others may be correct in that the fleet was a collection of the Island modules that were subsequently attached to M-25 when it showed up.

In fact, it may have been launched with an old Megaroad; they built the Islands over time, and when M-25 showed up they thought it better for the new guy to tow everyone else. They renamed City25 as "Island 1", numbered the pill modules from there, and collectively called the whole thing "Frontier". I have no problem assuming they built the pill modules over time in space - they're able to build most of a New Macross carrier within a year (ref. Dynamite 7), so building a bunch of colony ships over the course of decades doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

It STILL doesn't really explain the haphazard and lopsided attachment of the Island modules to Island-1. Obviously, they don't anticipate landing like that.

Mark

PS - Still looking for screencaps of the various map displays, etc. Is there a repository here on MW besides what Graham has set up?

Edited January 10, 2008 by Mark Nguyen

[azrael]

They renamed City25 as "Island 1", numbered the pill modules from there, and collectively called the whole thing "Frontier". I have no problem assuming they built the pill modules over time in space - they're able to build most of a New Macross carrier within a year (ref. Dynamite 7), so building a bunch of colony ships over the course of decades doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

The City-ship and all the "pill" ships may be City-25 or City-xx (who knows how many city ships they have these days). If you notice in the maps, the City ship was designated Island 1, and coming from it was Island 2, Island 3, Island 4...etc. The entire group may be City 25 but each individual unit was called Island xx.

[Nausica]

Ok I see what I did now.

Because of how it was filmed, showing only the red bugs eye(s), I assumed that the bugs jumped in like a VF with an FTL drive would and further assumed that icon was the Einstein science ship (shown to still exist earlier in the shows intro). I didn't think that it was a carrier ship. So it looks like the Ghosts provoked a response.

Also when looking into this bit I stumbled upon how the Islands may have not been constructed 'in flight', but built with the main city ship probably as an experiment or as I posited earlier a forward mobile front line base. Look at time 2:08.

As for the screwy numbering conventions... I can only say that it looks like not all colonizing fleets got the Aircraft Carrier & City Ship colony set-up OR they didn't care about numbering conventions because they made the distinction between the Fleets of Earth and Eden.

My point exactly:)

well to me it was the asteroids that gave it away..

the Fleet was not traveling through convieniently placed asteroids^^

but the unknown enemy carrier was hiding among such....

and now that u say it... was the attack provoked by the ghosts??

if so i think the situation is abit different!?!

[chrono]

I'm also starting to think that designations are arbitrary... M-7 was supposed to be the 37th emmigration fleet, but the seventh New Macross class combo, hence the "07" number painted all over Battle 7. Thus, it MIGHT be that M-25 is the 25th New Macross class combo, BUT the ship joined (and took over) the 11th/25th emmigration fleet as the flagship sometime after they left Earth. For all we know, some others may be correct in that the fleet was a collection of the Island modules that were subsequently attached to M-25 when it showed up.

In fact, it may have been launched with an old Megaroad;

I'm glad that you've brought up the Megaroad because it 'fixs' some of the confuse with fleet numbering.

The Megaroads were launched thus starting the Emmigration fleet numbers. So what we are not counting are the Megaroad numbers.

(i'm just throwing numbers down here for concept basis aka 'thinking out loud')

Emigration fleets 1-11 were Megaroads 1-11.

Emigration fleets 12-27 were Macross class City ships 1-15

That doesn't work though. So I'm inclined to believe that while the 1st Megaroads were launched, the 1st New Macross ships were also being built and launched. So you get a mixed launch scheme. Also there also probably was lag time in building the various ships of the fleets causing the carriers to be built well ahead of their time for a complete Emigration fleet to be launched.

Either that OR, like an increasing amount of the new show, it's been retconned.

[Noyhauser]

The ruins on Rax were not pyramidial shaped.

http://www.un-spacy-qmtdb.com/Locations/pab1.jpg

Frriiiiick. Thanks Briscojr, I must have early onset Alzheimer in my mid 20s. Well thats debunked... never mind me.

[Zinjo]

Can we get some referenced numbers about the fleet? Where does it say that M-25 is the 11th emmigration fleet?

In all the published literature about Mac Frontier thus far. You'll have to search through previous threads to find the translations done by the membership.

The Frontier is the "11th Super Long Distance" emigration fleet. It isn't the same type of fleet as the Megaroad or the New Macross fleets, eventhough it still uses the New Macross City class ship. The Mac 7 was the 35th emigration fleet (IIRC).

I'm also starting to think that designations are arbitrary... M-7 was supposed to be the 37th emmigration fleet, but the seventh New Macross class combo, hence the "07" number painted all over Battle 7. Thus, it MIGHT be that M-25 is the 25th New Macross class combo, BUT the ship joined (and took over) the 11th/25th emmigration fleet as the flagship sometime after they left Earth. For all we know, some others may be correct in that the fleet was a collection of the Island modules that were subsequently attached to M-25 when it showed up.

Not likely. The Frontier is the 25th New Macross City class ship built, thus the "25" name. The Mac 7 fleet had only 1 million colonists looking for a habitable planet to colonize, whereas the Mac 25 fleet has 10 million colonists looking for a habitable world in the Galactic core region.

In fact, it may have been launched with an old Megaroad; they built the Islands over time, and when M-25 showed up they thought it better for the new guy to tow everyone else. They renamed City25 as "Island 1", numbered the pill modules from there, and collectively called the whole thing "Frontier". I have no problem assuming they built the pill modules over time in space - they're able to build most of a New Macross carrier within a year (ref. Dynamite 7), so building a bunch of colony ships over the course of decades doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

Except they didn't build a brand new Battle 7 or City 7 and they also had the benefit of the 3 Star industry ship which appears designed to repair the capital ships enroute. Then there is the issue of where exactly were they able to house even a fraction of the 10 million people in a fleet that would be capable of only carrying 1 million?

I am not saying what you are suggesting is impossible, but when one looks at the size and complexity of an "Island" ship, it seems very unlikely it is something built enroute, they'd have to park the fleet for several years to mine and process the materials just to build one without the factory satellite...

It STILL doesn't really explain the haphazard and lopsided attachment of the Island modules to Island-1. Obviously, they don't anticipate landing like that.

You may want to examine the episode again. The Islands are evenly spread out behind the Frontier in what appears to be a "V" like formation.

[Noyhauser]

In all the published literature about Mac Frontier thus far. You'll have to search through previous threads to find the translations done by the membership.

The Frontier is the "11th Super Long Distance" emigration fleet. It isn't the same type of fleet as the Megaroad or the New Macross fleets, eventhough it still uses the New Macross City class ship. The Mac 7 was the 35th emigration fleet (IIRC).

Not likely. The Frontier is the 25th New Macross City class ship built, thus the "25" name. The Mac 7 fleet had only 1 million colonists looking for a habitable planet to colonize, whereas the Mac 25 fleet has 10 million colonists looking for a habitable world in the Galactic core region.

Just to nitpick, Macross 7 wasn't a colonization fleet if I remember correctly. Its mission was to expand the galactic communications network or something like that, which was stated a couple of times in the series. But it wasn't a colonization mission. Thats probably why it only had one Colony ship, unlike other, larger fleets (like Macross 5, which had two or three city ships.)

Edited January 10, 2008 by Noyhauser

[azrael]

The Frontier is the "11th Super Long Distance" emigration fleet. It isn't the same type of fleet as the Megaroad or the New Macross fleets, eventhough it still uses the New Macross City class ship. The Mac 7 was the 35th emigration fleet (IIRC).

M7 = 37th long-distance colonization fleet

And I'll mention this again, the "Island" designations appear to be internal-fleet designations only. The City-ship (and fleet) may actually be City F or Frontier or City 25 (or whatever letter or number their on) to every other fleet out there. But to everybody in this particular fleet, it's just Island 1, Island 2, Island 3...etc.

[Zinjo]

Just to nitpick, Macross 7 wasn't a colonization fleet if I remember correctly. Its mission was to expand the galactic communications network or something like that, which was stated a couple of times in the series. But it wasn't a colonization mission. Thats probably why it only had one Colony ship, unlike other, larger fleets (like Macross 5, which had two or three city ships.)

I am not too sure that is correct. Why carry a million colonists on a mission to "rewire" the galactic network?

I don't recall Mac 5 having any more than 1 city ship...

[Mr March]

No, he's right about that one point Zinjam. An episode of Macross 7 clearly shows three New Macross Class ships as part of the Macross 5 fleet (in addition to a VERY brief, and ONLY, shot of the Neo-Nupetiet-Vergnitzs class ship). briscojr84 has a picture which he has posted before that shows the multiple New Macross Class ships in the Macross 5 fleet. Hopefully he's watching this thread.

[Noyhauser]

I am not too sure that is correct. Why carry a million colonists on a mission to "rewire" the galactic network?

I don't recall Mac 5 having any more than 1 city ship...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fj8Qo13OR_0&feature=related

Fast Forward to 9:56: Three Colony ships. I'm trying to find where it says "expand" the galactic network, but I may well be wrong as I said in my first post. Maybe its for improved communications to the borders areas (since there are smaller colonies in the region.)

Edited January 10, 2008 by Noyhauser

[Zinjo]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fj8Qo13OR_0&feature=related

Fast Forward to 9:56: Three Colony ships. I'm trying to find where it says "expand" the galactic network, but I may well be wrong as I said in my first post. Maybe its for improved communications to the borders areas (since there are smaller colonies in the region.)

If that's the shot of the 3 or so City ships leaving Earth's orbit, you can save it, as that has been discussed here before and ultimately it's not conclusive to any argument.

I can't watch the youtube link as it's a blocked site where I work.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Zinjo

[Mr March]

Are we sure the word "network" is being used in a communications context here? It could be referring to the organizational structure of the UNG. Like the network of solar systems that makes up the human civilization of space; it's "Sphere of Influence" as they say.

[Graham]

I still think the the City 25 ship is significantly larger than City 7, but I guess we will have to wait until we see some hard stats from Kawamori to be sure.

Graham

[Mr March]

If that's the shot of the 3 or so City ships leaving Earth's orbit, you can save it, as that has been discussed here before and ultimately it's not conclusive to any argument.

It's not. It's Episode 23 and it shows the Macross 5 fleet landing on the Planet Rax. Three New Macross Class ships are shown landing in the ocean.

[Mr March]

I still think the the City 25 ship is significantly larger than City 7, but I guess we will have to wait until we see some hard stats from Kawamori to be sure.

Graham

It's possible. Not all the City Ships were identical even in Macross 7 (Macross 5 is an example), so it stands to reason there could be larger or smaller versions.

[azrael]

It's possible. Not all the City Ships were identical even in Macross 7 (Macross 5 is an example), so it stands to reason there could be larger or smaller versions.

I would say it's substantially bigger, considering they can fit a small bridge in there and given the population size of the Frontier fleet.

[chrono]

I would say it's substantially bigger, considering they can fit a small bridge in there and given the population size of the Frontier fleet.

At most it's 1/4 - 1/3rd larger, and I don't know whether it's his retcon of the size or him not talking to the people who built the models to keep the scales consistent.

[Mark Nguyen]

I'm pretty sure there's another shot of the Neo-Nupitueajneouawvnrbsojeitz ship later on, but destroyed. In whatever episode it was that Basara found the M5 fleet shipwrecks, I'm certain we see the ol' Zentran phallus rusting away.

Hum - establishing that this is the 11th SUPER long distance fleet solves a lot of problems. Looking at Egan's chronology, we can rationalize that Earth has been sending out colony fleets in several waves:

-Close-range fleets (Megaroad-01, 02, 03, et. al.) whose mission is to find and colonize planets within 100 light years. Eden was apparently an early success of this program.

-Long-distance fleets (Macross-5, Macross-7, Macross-9 et. al.). M7 is indeed the 37th such fleet.

-SUPER-long-distance fleets (Macross 25/Frontier, Macross Galaxy). Frontier, Galaxy and M7 set course for teh galactic core, but along different routes and at different times.

I'm still not convinced that the Island modules HAD to be assembled somewhere else. While much smaller, M7's Aschio suburb was built en-route and without too many people noticing - and it has a similar design to the islands. It's true that a factory ship was helping build the new Battle 7; however, there's nothing to refute the islands being capable of being built, or even building EACH OTHER along the way. Who knows what alchemical miracles are housed under the ground level... Also, for all we know, they could have had a factory ship for years at a time, which then left to build more stuff elsewhere. Since Frontier seems to be one huge ship, it's reasonable to assume that they had everything that 10 million people would need in the way of manufacturing and repair built right in.

While it's true that Frontier has a population of ten million, we don't know that it started that way. We also don't know how long they've been travelling (arguably no more than 21 years when M7 was launched, but certainly no earlier than 2030 when M1 was launched). Even in a decade, the population may have grown by many thousands of people. From the images, it seems that Frontier has a lower population desnsity than M7, as it has no skyscrapers in evidence. Most of Island 1 seems dominated by a lake larger than than in M7, for example. It's possible that everyone started out bunched up pretty closely, then decided to spread out over time. OTOH, it is true that Island 1 LOOKS a lot larger on the inside than CIty 7; we don't know yet if this is just pespective. Either way, there don't seem to be many SUPER tall buildings this time.

With regards to the configuation of the Islands, they ARE spread out in two branches, but the number and placement of Islands on each side does not seem symmetrical as you'd expect. At the very beginning of the scene where we first see the ghost squadron, you can see that there are more Islands on the portside branch than the starboard; a tactical graphic supports this somewhat, though I accept that there is a perspective on the shot.

Mark

Edited January 10, 2008 by Mark Nguyen

[wolfx]

My point exactly:)

well to me it was the asteroids that gave it away..

the Fleet was not traveling through convieniently placed asteroids^^

but the unknown enemy carrier was hiding among such....

and now that u say it... was the attack provoked by the ghosts??

if so i think the situation is abit different!?!

Nope. If anything its probably a planned attack on Frontier...unless you wanna consider a lone reconnaisance VF-171 a provoker.

With regards to the configuation of the Islands, they ARE spread out in two branches, but the number and placement of Islands on each side does not seem symmetrical as you'd expect. At the very beginning of the scene where we first see the ghost squadron, you can see that there are more Islands on the portside branch than the starboard; a tactical graphic supports this somewhat, though I accept that there is a perspective on the shot.

Mark

They seem symetrical but built in a "tree" format. Some islands branch out to two other islands while some converge from 2 islands into 1.

[briscojr84]

I am not too sure that is correct. Why carry a million colonists on a mission to "rewire" the galactic network?

I don't recall Mac 5 having any more than 1 city ship...

Actually weren't they heading out to see if they could find out what happened to the Megaroad-01.

[briscojr84]

No, he's right about that one point Zinjam. An episode of Macross 7 clearly shows three New Macross Class ships as part of the Macross 5 fleet (in addition to a VERY brief, and ONLY, shot of the Neo-Nupetiet-Vergnitzs class ship). briscojr84 has a picture which he has posted before that shows the multiple New Macross Class ships in the Macross 5 fleet. Hopefully he's watching this thread.

I am but unfortunately that image is on my old computer and it needs to get the power supply fixed I'll see if I can find it on here.

[briscojr84]

Frriiiiick. Thanks Briscojr, I must have early onset Alzheimer in my mid 20s. Well thats debunked... never mind me.

No prob, if anything it looks Incan/Aztecish/Mayan.

[Nausica]

Nope. If anything its probably a planned attack on Frontier...unless you wanna consider a lone reconnaisance VF-171 a provoker.

They seem symetrical but built in a "tree" format. Some islands branch out to two other islands while some converge from 2 islands into 1.

yeah i probably got carried away with alternatives lol

but still wouldnt it be interessting to see Macross fleet starting a confontation/war

against a alien race rather than the other way around as usual?

still maybe the alien was only there as recon

and desided that the ghost just came too close, thus deciding to take action?

"we cant assume that the entire universe reacts to situations the same way as humans, Zentraedi ect. ect."

unless the alien is a advanced faction of an already know enemy!?!

Edited January 11, 2008 by Nausica

[Zinjo]

It's not. It's Episode 23 and it shows the Macross 5 fleet landing on the Planet Rax. Three New Macross Class ships are shown landing in the ocean.

I stand corrected, the Macross 5 fleet did have 3 City ships, which begs the question, how many Battleships did they have? Since all city ships come with a battle section it also speaks to the power of the PD and their army to be able to wipe out 3 fortresses on Rax!

As for the idea that the Macross 7 fleet was on some sort of communication mission, the prologue of the episode on Youtube explains they were just like every other fleet, looking for habitable planets. However if the Mac 5 fleet had 3 city ships that would make the Mac 7 fleet substantially smaller than usual.

I would say it's substantially bigger, considering they can fit a small bridge in there and given the population size of the Frontier fleet.

The Mac 25 Fortress is much smaller in relation to the Frontier City ship than the Mac 7 Battle Fortress was to City 7. The Battle 7 is about 1/5 the size of the City 7 while the Mac 25 looks to be about 1/10th the size of Frontier. It would make sense considering the number of people in the fleet and it would explain why the skyscrapers in Frontier don't reach through the dome. Just from rough measurement of the City 7 in TIAS: Macross 7 the City 7 ship appears to have been about 2000m tall from it's bottom to the top of the dome, while we know from ep 1 that the Frontier's ceiling is 2000m from the ground, making it much taller.

We also should keep in mind that by 2050 there were at least a dozen colonized worlds and with them, millions of citizens each. It concievable that the 5 billion people of the former Earth had been replenished by then and that the super long distance fleets were composed of citizens from all over the UNG commonwealth, not necessarily one world...

[Mark Nguyen]

Actually, we already know this. Before joining the M7 fleet, Physica was from Eden.

I'm sure that unless they meet an untimely demise, ALL the emmigration fleets maintain regular contact with Earth and the colonies through the Galaxy Network. Beyond that, there would be transportation possible between the various fleets and colonies. Basara didn't seem to have a problem at all getting to Zola without a Valkyrie... He even seemed to take regular transportation to get there.

Mark

[Dante74]

Haven't been keeping up with all the Mac F threads like a good Macross fan should, so my apologies if this has been asked before.

Anyone know what Valk this is?

It's shown near the end of the 25th anniversary TV special.

Looks like a VF-25 variant to me, especially the batroid mode.

[Smiley424]

Hmm, looks very similar to the Protodeviln Valks from Macross 7. Just the engine nacelles on the wings though. The legs/feet totally remind me of the SV-51 from Macross Zero, while the head reminds me of the "J" style head of the VF-25 from Macross Frontier.

[Mr March]

It's definitely VF-25 era for sure, but it has quite a few design similarities to the SV-51, Fz-109 and some bits and pieces from other Valkyries like the VF-4. The head unit reminds me of the Griffon from Patlabor.

[TehPW]

Haven't been keeping up with all the Mac F threads like a good Macross fan should, so my apologies if this has been asked before.

Anyone know what Valk this is?

It's shown near the end of the 25th anniversary TV special.

Looks like a VF-25 variant to me, especially the batroid mode.

where did you find these pics? i dont recall see these in the credits for the Subtitled 3 part Episode i seen on Youtube... might wanna pass the info to gram for inclusion...

[Dante74]

Like I stated in my post, I got it from the TV special. It shows Kawamori and a Satelight employee discussing this CG model.

What YouTube episode a you reffering to, the 25th anni. TV special?

[azrael]

Haven't been keeping up with all the Mac F threads like a good Macross fan should, so my apologies if this has been asked before.

Anyone know what Valk this is?

It's shown near the end of the 25th anniversary TV special.

Looks like a VF-25 variant to me, especially the batroid mode.

I believe it's Ozuma's full-armored VF-25 in it's early stages of design. The wing-engine blocks would be representative of where the boosters are. It also transforms exactly like the VF-25 from what I've seen. In the scene, Kawamori is talking to the animator so I'm guessing he's explaining how the full-armored VF-25 is transforming.

[Dante74]

For your viewing pleasure. Pics of the Lego VF-25 and some line art of the VF-25's head.

[Mr March]

VF-25J

[badboy00z]

For your viewing pleasure. Pics of the Lego VF-25 and some line art of the VF-25's head.

That portion of the video has been up on youtube for awhile. I'm sure there's a higher resolution/ quality video of that somewhere. Is it possible for you to make screen caps of all or most of the shots of the VF-25? I'm trying to recreate it. Lol.