Macross 25th Anniversary TV Special thread *READ THE 1ST POST*

[Chronocidal]

Hmmm.. random thought I had rewatching today. Dunno if it's been suggested before, but the situation is almost a love quadrangle or pentangle at the moment (or could develop into one). I almost get this feeling that at some point Sheryl's gonna be the one who sacrifices herself to save a bunch of people (lets face it, if you count both girls at the restaurant, there's a roughly equal number of guys and girls. Something has to give). Probably not early on, and it might even turn out to be a rather meaningless death.. but if Ranka can sing (I think I remember reading that she does somewhere), how else is she going to get the spotlight with Sheryl in the way? So far she's so similar to Minmay, I can't see her not singing... unless their plan is to barrage us with familiar character roles, give us a false sense of security for who lives and dies, then shatter our expectations completely.

Also, I'm wondering why the military has such an interest in Sheryl.. yes, singers are valuable, but the overtones from the government regarding her safety feel a little over the top. It occurred to me that the military may be using her as a probe of sorts, sending her around to the different fleets hoping to stir up something, probably looking for the remnants of the Protoculture. When the bugs first appear, the one official does say something like, "They're here already?" It could be a problem with the translation I have, but it's like they're expecting the bugs.

I haven't had time to catch up with the whole thread, so these things may have been discussed already. But I do hope they throw a few plot curves at us to keep us guessing. It'd be easy to make a rough copy of the original SDFM plot, except they've got more characters than they need right now.

As for Alto, my impression was that he wants to fly a Valk, but doesn't want military ties... probably what drives him to SMS work as a mercenary, but his motivation almost reminds me of Basara, with a love of pure flying rather than music. Probably more like Isamu than Basara, but he seems like he would be perfectly content with a Valk of his own sitting in his back yard.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Chronocidal

[Kelsain]

Another thing that has me wondering is after the alert at SMS HQ, Ozma says: "Lanka, they're finally here"* [sic]. He definitely seems to know a little more about the bugs than the others. Coupled with the red bug's interest upon spotting Ranka, it makes me wonder what ties she may have to them. And who's Mr Habler?

Aside from being simply badass, the pilot episode here has laid the groundwork for many interesting plot threads. Hopefully they won't be casually glossed over like in M7.

*Shinsen subs

Edited January 8, 2008 by Kelsain

[wolfx]

Another thing that has me wondering is after the alert at SMS HQ, Ozma says: "Lanka, they're finally here"* [sic]. He definitely seems to know a little more about the bugs than the others. Coupled with the red bug's interest upon spotting Ranka, it makes me wonder what ties she may have to them. And who's Mr Habler?

Aside from being simply badass, the pilot episode here has laid the groundwork for many interesting plot threads. Hopefully they won't be casually glossed over like in M7.

*Shinsen subs

Ozma definately knows something about the bugs. When Ozma saves the scaredy VF-171 guy he says "cowards can't fight these things", then Giulamme whatshisname mentions "Code Victor is this what you were talking about, Commander". Ozma definately knows something about the bugs.

And about that Ranka comment, i'm guessing Ozma saved her from one of the bug attacks some time ago and it killed her parents. She was traumatised by the incident hence her non-movement when encountering it. Then I guess Ozma sorta adopted her or is looking after her or something.

Oh for those who wanna do more scrutinising, you guys should look frame by frame of the 3 Dimensional radar as the Ghosts fly towards their target. You'll see some interesting things like ship names, the PPB systems on the Frontier Island 1, Battle 25, etc. I also had a good look of the Macross Frontier and I just realised its just like the Macross 7 but its dragging other domes behind it like 2 tails, each dome labeled Island x with x denoting a number.

Edited January 8, 2008 by wolfx

[Vinnie]

Another thing that has me wondering is after the alert at SMS HQ, Ozma says: "Lanka, they're finally here"* [sic]. He definitely seems to know a little more about the bugs than the others. Coupled with the red bug's interest upon spotting Ranka, it makes me wonder what ties she may have to them. And who's Mr Habler?

Aside from being simply badass, the pilot episode here has laid the groundwork for many interesting plot threads. Hopefully they won't be casually glossed over like in M7.

*Shinsen subs

Ah, I was going to point that out too!

As far as Alto's moodiness in the first episode goes, if you want to see some real whiney emo boys ages 20 to 60 hang around a group of pilots that haven't flown in a week or more due to maintenance, weather, or simply lack of missions. I find that aspect of Alto's character realistic and relatable. Also, if they're developing him as a dreams of being a military pilot but can't due to medical/scores/incedent etc. he'll end up an interesting character.

[Zinjo]

I also had a good look of the Macross Frontier and I just realised its just like the Macross 7 but its dragging other domes behind it like 2 tails, each dome labeled Island x with x denoting a number.

That's to replace the rediculous "Milky Road" from Mac 7... thank God!

[Kelsain]

That's to replace the rediculous "Milky Road" from Mac 7... thank God!

Traveling ship-to-ship would've seemed reasonable if they'd used shuttles. Just the notion of flying your car over (or your moped ) across space was what pushed it over the edge. 'Course the name just hurt my head.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Kelsain

[Radd]

I wouldn't read too much into any of the subtitles quite yet. There are so many little flaws in even the "good" subs I've seen that I have little confidence in little lines like "They're finally here!" I suspect Ozma's line may have been more along the lines of "Ranka, finally some action!" As in finally getting out on to a real battlefield and showing his skills. Not necessarily suggesting a specific enemy.

Also all the talk of "Code Victor", I don't see why that can't just be a plan of action for a very serious situation, again not specifically related to this particular enemy they find themselves fighting.

Ozma's line about "Cowards not being able to fight these things" could just be more along the lines of how complacent the regular military is. Probably mostly kids with no previous battle experience, while SMS is made up of vets who've seen actual combat.

As for the ships physically connected, and the absence of the "Milky Road", and also the main city ship not having sky scrapers that reach all the way to the top of the dome...I think these might all be visual cues showing that the fleet to have been less advanced when it left Earth than the Macross 7's 37th long distance fleet. Do we know the dates at which these respective fleets left earth? Frontier is the 11th long distance fleet, isn't it? No force-field or however made inter-ship roads, and it's possible, likely even, that the Frontier city ship isn't larger, just that the City 7 ship has huge freaking towers, allowing for more people and other things. It's easier to upgrade things such as the fighter contingent than the actual colony ships themselves, I imagine.

[azrael]

I wouldn't read too much into any of the subtitles quite yet. There are so many little flaws in even the "good" subs I've seen that I have little confidence in little lines like "They're finally here!" I suspect Ozma's line may have been more along the lines of "Ranka, finally some action!" As in finally getting out on to a real battlefield and showing his skills. Not necessarily suggesting a specific enemy.

As for the ships physically connected, and the absence of the "Milky Road", and also the main city ship not having sky scrapers that reach all the way to the top of the dome...I think these might all be visual cues showing that the fleet to have been less advanced when it left Earth than the Macross 7's 37th long distance fleet. Do we know the dates at which these respective fleets left earth? Frontier is the 11th long distance fleet, isn't it? No force-field or however made inter-ship roads, and it's possible, likely even, that the Frontier city ship isn't larger, just that the City 7 ship has huge freaking towers, allowing for more people and other things. It's easier to upgrade things such as the fighter contingent than the actual colony ships themselves, I imagine.

Yes, there are a few problems with even the good subbed 'Deculture Edition" version of episode 1.

As for the ships, it's hard to figure out the numbering as they list the M7 fleet as the 7th fleet, M-Frontier as the 25th fleet and M-Galaxy as the 21st fleet. This could be in reference to the New-Macross class numbers as M7's was 07, M-Frontier's was 25, and M-Galaxy's was 21 and they all left in 2012. The numbering just feels very off and may only be representative in-nature and not the true numbers.

One other difference is that the M-Frontier fleet uses the "pill" ships connected to the central city while M7 had the central City-ship with more class-specific ships surrounding it with the Milky Road connecting everything. Considering that M7's population only ranged in the hundreds of thousands while M-Frontier ranges in the millions, it may be that M-Frontier's fleet consists of more cities and living space as opposed to recreation and industrial-oriented ships. M-Frontier may be more of a people mover an not a self-sustaining fleet like M7 (not to say that M-Frontier may not have those facilities, but they may have significantly less than M7).

[Duke Togo]

There are too many "little" things that all add up to them knowing about these beasts. One translated line can be dismissed, but not four or five. And we have three different releases to cross reference.

[Radd]

Ever since the first release came out people have been jumping to the same conclusions, though. It's very likely these translations, which are questionable even when put together, came out this way due to the perception of the translators, or simply that's the way they come out being a little too literal while losing intended meaning. There's also a lot that is not even directly conveyed in the translations, people drawing conclusions that Sheryl must know about things based on the high priority given her arrival and safety, when that can more easily be explained by the simple fact that she's a famous star.

Of course, I'm not saying that it's certainly not the case that they know about the bugs, or that half the cast certainly wasn't expecting them, I'm just throwing out what I see as an equally plausible scenario at this time. Future episodes will, of course, shed more light on all of this.

[Zinjo]

The civilians are spread out over the Frontier City and Island (pill) ships. There is no need to have high spires like in City 7 because the population density is spread out over the various Islands. I expect each island to have its own city and suspect that the cities are named after pre-SW1 cities of the Earth.

It wouldn't surprise me if the various industry ships used in the Mac 7 fleets were now somehow integrated into the Island ships.

This fleet is the 11th Super Long Distance fleet, unlike the Mac 7 fleets which were smaller and more integrated. The Frontier, Galaxy type fleets have many more separate capital ship escorts compared to the Mac 7 fleets who's escorts were largely integrated with the various industry ships in the fleet.

[Final Vegeta]

Yes, there are a few problems with even the good subbed 'Deculture Edition" version of episode 1.

The Seiyan version is the worst. Several lines were wrong. The Shinsen seems faithful enough, just some names were misunderstood (Norme instead of Nome, Canaya instead of Kamelia, Reamer-8 instead of Lima-8, etc).

FV

[Graham]

And of course Lanka instead of Ranka.

Graham

[VF-18S Hornet]

I watched in awe after seeing episode 1 OMG I can't wait to see Episode 2,,, auuugh I wish they would relese this new series here in the US..... (must catch my breath) but any way yes I know I have been waaaaay out of the loop on this one, always the last to know. Not my fault that my sister's laptop no longer excepted the sites last upgrade.

[VF-18S Hornet]

The Seiyan version is the worst. Several lines were wrong. The Shinsen seems faithful enough, just some names were misunderstood (Norme instead of Nome, Canaya instead of Kamelia, Reamer-8 instead of Lima-8, etc).

FV

Hey I saw that version on You Tube

[Torii]

Personally, I think probably the best fansubbed versions we have at the moment would have to be either Shinsen or SA, the latter providing overall good subs as well as a high-res picture.

[DJ Loe Kee]

Personally, I think probably the best fansubbed versions we have at the moment would have to be either Shinsen or SA, the latter providing overall good subs as well as a high-res picture.

i would agree (i haven't seen SA subs tho'). and i know that alot of things are hard to translate and lose meanin' when you try to translate them so i really don't expect the subs to be 100% perfect. but i expect them to be better than all of the errors that seiyan subs made.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I bet the appearance of the bugs has something to do with the rogue zentradi. How do we know they didn't macronise these like they did with the giant chicken leg, and then arm them with weapons?

I think the idea of giant chickens are actually scarier though.

What was really said was:

"the macronised bug has made its arrival. The zentradi have bred more of them as they know they can't repair so they are using cheaply made biological weapons on us again, scared to be contaminated by culture shock."

But the bug got smarter and broke free from the labs and infested the rogue zentradi ships with eggs and now its running free. The rogue zentradi are helping it for fear that it will target them instead.

Edited January 9, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[yellowlightman]

Indeed. Welcome to anime fads of 2008 - where if a male lead character isn't all emo and vaguely effeminate, he just ain't cool. We're having just OODLES of fun trying to keep the fangirls at bay from Gundam 00 for just that reason.

Uh, that's been going on for a lot longer than just 2008.

[Radd]

The Shinsen subs still have enough errors to make me question the translation. I hope a really polished sub eventually comes out.

[azrael]

The Shinsen subs still have enough errors to make me question the translation. I hope a really polished sub eventually comes out.

When episode 1 re-airs, perhaps a polished translation will come with it.

[Mr March]

Uh, that's been going on for a lot longer than just 2008.

I agree. Anime in general is known for a lot of bishonen. In the real robot genre, The Five Star Stories back in 1986 featured several major bishonen characters including the lead character.

[Radd]

And many previous lead characters showed far more of this "emo angst" people are talking about than Alto. Amaro Ray from a little show called Mobile Suit Gundam, and this character called Shinji who was the lead in a tiny production by the small, independent studio Gainax. Just to name a couple.

[Elektrix]

And many previous lead characters showed far more of this "emo angst" people are talking about than Alto. Amaro Ray from a little show called Mobile Suit Gundam, and this character called Shinji who was the lead in a tiny production by the small, independent studio Gainax. Just to name a couple.

Yeah, honestly, the more I watch Macross F Ep 1, the more I don't see it. Alto seems much more like a traditional hero character if anything, one who is only frustrated because he is limited, and can't fly like he wants.

We actually see him smiling, and he doesn't seem angsty to me when he takes off and flies after the paper airplane he makes - he only gets upset again because he doesn't have room to fly.

-Elektrix

[ssfsx17]

I bet the appearance of the bugs has something to do with the rogue zentradi. How do we know they didn't macronise these like they did with the giant chicken leg, and then arm them with weapons?

I think the idea of giant chickens are actually scarier though.

What was really said was:

"the macronised bug has made its arrival. The zentradi have bred more of them as they know they can't repair so they are using cheaply made biological weapons on us again, scared to be contaminated by culture shock."

But the bug got smarter and broke free from the labs and infested the rogue zentradi ships with eggs and now its running free. The rogue zentradi are helping it for fear that it will target them instead.

Let me guess... they've also got acid blood and a "queen" bug? And the NUNS will develop "pulse gunpods" that are much more effective against the bugs? And the full-armored packs will contain "smartguns" that can automatically track the bugs?

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Nah I'm thinking the rogue zentradi would be too dumb to make it now.

Probably the anti-un who had access to a macronisation machine after learning about the events 50 years ago since they were there at the time. So they've been secretly following using the latest in cloaking technology. They armed the bug with weapons and have been reverse engineering AFOS technology ever since. This will be the test to see if the bugs are worth mass producing. Notice how their battroids are really skinny looking insect designs? They love bugs. And they have wanted to make an intelligent one which could be tamed for ages.

The octos was probably inspired by a dead giant bug they found in a cave on the mayan island so they based their design on the creatures. Now they have created the ultimate in biotech weaponry which can allow them to win against the UN. All they need to do first is to wipe out those descendant of the mayan islanders who have the power to awaken the bugs from their sophisticated mind control which could turn the bug against them. Before ivanov's death he probably convinced a lot of un scientists to work for them instead since he thought they'd win the unification wars because they had stolen the VF design and had the head start.

Macross F is going to be human enemies making monsters of the week and be the secret arms race to make the latest in bioweapons which will lead to variable fighters that are biomechanical with super robot abilities matching those seen in MacrossII. The president must have known they were coming so he is going to publicly unveal the secret new VFs that are biomechanical and lighter and faster than normal VFs. (just like how the un showed us the vf-1 in SDF:M at the airshow.) Alto will pilot the new generation of robot that goes back to the idea of close combat and they need people with a certain body type to make the machine react in sync to the human inputs. The end of real robots and the rise of magic biomechanical robots is here! Macross will have it's version of the bioroids from southern cross, just as it had it's version of the "thinking cap" (mckinney novels) in macross plus. PC will end up intervening and attack both sides leading to the loss of the biomecha and a return to older robots. (like how they don't use brain wave controls anymore)

Edited January 9, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[mechaninac]

1/1 LVL, whatever you're smoking I think you better stop now...

j/k

I finally got a chance to watch the first episode... Wow! The animation and CGI are fantastic and the story seems to be off to a good start. Both the VF-171 and VF-25 look great. I almost wish I hadn't watched the show at this time... waiting for episode 2 is going to be murder.

[azrael]

1/1 LVL, whatever you're smoking I think you better stop now...

You actual read what he wrote? Don't you know you only do that if you're high on something or drunk off your ass.

I'm use to the "emo-type" protagonists so, meh.

[DJ Loe Kee]

The Shinsen subs still have enough errors to make me question the translation. I hope a really polished sub eventually comes out.

since i can't translate japanese i can only compare shinsen subs to seiyan subs... and there were sentences said in seiyan that didn't make since but after watchin' shinsen subs i said "their sentence makes more sense".

i could ask my friend to watch both versions since her native language is japanese, but i don't feel like botherin' her with translatin' work (especially free, not paid) when i really don't need it. i'd rather bother her once in a blue moon when i want to order something off of a japanese website and i really need help translatin' it.

i haven't watched macross f since last year (only watch seiyan twice and shinsen subs once) 'cause i still have about 200gbs of anime that i haven't watched yet (it's just sittin' on dvd-r somewhere) and i don't look for errors. i just want the the story to flow nicely with no OBVIOUS errors that a "i took only one semester of japanese" person like me can find.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

But what if the subs make you think things are there that aren't?

I thought "Evirus" was an actual person when watching DYRL. So the Evirus Slayer must be a legendary combatant that fought him a long time ago and minmay was singing about it in DYRL. Kinda like shenlong in street fighter who doesn't exist.

Evirus might have been something britai and exedor witnessed when seeing the movie, before the mind wipe and the memory of that trautmatic event came to them right at that moment when they saw the little white dragon movie. (like guld's "I almost raped myung" scene in macross plus) and someone similar in power to the protodevlin existed and beat the crap out of evirus a long time ago. So when they saw the movie, they thought the evirus slayer was onboard the SDF-1 which is why they were scared to destroy the sdf-1.

Edited January 10, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[ssfsx17]

But what if the subs make you think things are there that aren't?

I thought "Evirus" was an actual person when watching DYRL. So the Evirus Slayer must be a legendary combatant that fought him a long time ago and minmay was singing about it in DYRL. Kinda like shenlong in street fighter who doesn't exist.

It's not that Shenlong didn't exist, it's just that the figure of speech doesn't translate very well into English. The English equivalent would be "You must be as strong as the god of war to stand a chance."

[DJ Loe Kee]

But what if the subs make you think things are there that aren't?

I thought "Evirus" was an actual person when watching DYRL. So the Evirus Slayer must be a legendary combatant that fought him a long time ago and minmay was singing about it in DYRL. Kinda like shenlong in street fighter who doesn't exist.

Evirus might have been something britai and exedor witnessed when seeing the movie, before the mind wipe and the memory of that trautmatic event came to them right at that moment when they saw the little white dragon movie. (like guld's "I almost raped myung" scene in macross plus) and someone similar in power to the protodevlin existed and beat the crap out of evirus a long time ago. So when they saw the movie, they thought the evirus slayer was onboard the SDF-1 which is why they were scared to destroy the sdf-1.

normally, i only dl the fansubs that i trust with gettin' the translation right the first time. except for death note 'cause every fansub group kept gettin' cease and desist letters from viz so i have 3-4 different groups that subbed that series. i usually start with one fansub group and stick with them.

an example of "translation differences" is lunar callin' a rank lieutenant and dattebayo callin' the exact same rank vice captain in bleach. who to say who is right, a translation can have 2 definitions like the word hana meaning FLOWER and NOSE. plus, it is a FREE fansub and i've seen pro translation on retail cds that did a worse job than the free fansub (like a macross plus sentence that wasn't even translated by managa and it is a dvd-rip, not a fansub (it has english/japanese audio plus subs, it was translated in the movie but not the ova).

normally i wouldn't have even dl'ed the seiyan fansubs 'cause i have never heard of them. i started with black order subs for d.gray-man so refuse to watch shinsen subs of the same show (plus black order subs calls a rank "marshall" i think and shinsen subs used a different term for it so i immediately want back to black order for consistency).

so, i only know shinsen subs from macross f and i don't feel like goin' through my collection of unwatched collection of anime to see if i have any shinsen subs in them (plus i changed the file names and remove the tags from fansubs to keep anime in numerical order 'cause my db subs for naruto would go from [db]naruto 01[12445] to [dattebayo]naruto 02[24545] and i removed everything with a [] from the file name. they better have tagged their name in the video or i won't know who subbed them). hey, but comparin' seiyan to shinsen subs i would watch a shinsen sub version of a show that isn't d.gray-man.

and in MY opinion the best translators are native japanese but not every fansub group has one on their team. i can even spot when they do sometimes 'cause some sentences are "bad english" that didn't get spotted and fixed quality control.

It's not that Shenlong didn't exist, it's just that the figure of speech doesn't translate very well into English. The English equivalent would be "You must be as strong as the god of war to stand a chance."

this is true. i asked my friend how to cuss in japanese. i asked how to say fc*k, xiet and shiet like that in japanese and she told me that they didn't have a translation for it in japanese (and this is a reason why i hate it when fansubs translate words as cuss words when they are only sayin' "stupid/idiot/bastard" or some other word like that).

Edited January 12, 2008 by DJ Loe Kee

[imode]

I'm really digging this. I really wish they would cut it out with the computer animation stuff but I'm really liking all the parallels to DYRL and the original series.

Opening fight scene during concert... check.

Lone alien breaking through Macross defenses and messing the city up... check.

Chinese restaurant... check.

[Mr March]

I'd have to agree with both Radd and Elektrix. Alto is presented far more as a traditional hero archetype like Hikaru than anything approaching the misfit emo that most are mistaking for bishonen. In fact, Alto is appears to be an overachiever from what his classmates say of his skills and is looking for an outlet to both prove himself and achieve through his skills that which is beyond his current lot in life. He finds his current situation stagnating and is bored with that which he has already mastered. He's also very outspoken and opinionated, traits in direct opposition to silent personalities that internalize their frustrations (text book emo). Of course, being as young as he is, Alto is going to obviously bite off more than he can chew, but that's part of growing up.

[VF-2SS-BloodPhoenix]

Just saw the Shinsen subs last night and two things I find rather amusing. During the attack on the city, in a future this advanced, there was an old guy wearing rags from ancient Japan carrying a pole with fish in them? I thought the civilians would be more knowledgeable and act more appropriately when there is a real alert going on, not wondering around like they're all half asleep. Also during the attack in the city, they used tanks against an alien invader. Like someone mentioned, what happened to the usual Macross ground mechas like the Monster? As much as I like TnA, I cringed at the concert scenes showing it, somewhat forcefully filling my eyes with it when I wanted to see the space battle more than the other stuff .

Otherwise the Macross story formula is working well here and I'll certainly DL every episode when they're subbed.