Macross 25th Anniversary TV Special thread *READ THE 1ST POST*

[Radd]

As far as Alto, I think people are putting far too much on...man, it wasn't even the first impression of him. His first impression was more like Isamu. Confident and obsessed with flight. The moments of brooding frustration seem to fit a teenaged character, though the writers don't linger on it. They even turn his bishonen look into a funny quirk. Yeah, he tends to snap at people who bring it up, but he obviously likes the way he looks enough not to change it, and I wouldn't be surprised if only his friends and coworkers get off easy ribbing him about it.

I kinda feel the same way about people's perception of Shin as being a joyless angst machine. He was all brooding and serious at the beginning of the episode, but this from a guy who was only in his teens, had seen his family gunned down in front of him, and who was caught up in World War III. Past that opening scene, the lighter side to him gets brought up more often than not. A brooding angst machine doesn't violently hug and noogie a crippled man in front of his superior officer. Yah, he retains his serious side, but come on, even Isamu and Hikaru had that side to them, and it was about as prevalent in both of them.

I wonder if the stereotype of the brooding hero hasn't become so ingrained, that people are seeing it even when it isn't there.

[Duke Togo]

I wonder if the stereotype of the brooding hero hasn't become so ingrained, that people are seeing it even when it isn't there.

I've noticed that in alot of cases, not just Macross F. There seems to be some sort of assumption now that all anime male leads are full of angst and moody.

[UN_MARINE]

WOW. i haven't been excited about a new show since FMP.

Alto seems ok, but not enough to tell his character from 1 episode. maybe he'll lighten up later in the show.

if he starts acting like a Shinji, then i'll be lighting up a pitchfork

actually.. it's the other characters that bug me a little.

are the rest of Alto's class a bunch of pansies? though the other guy might be their reincarnated Max, so... ok.

then there's Sheryl, i kinda got a split personality vibe from her. at first, she seemed like a likable, mellow character. then you get the high-strung, snobby vibe. pop idols

and... was that a guy from Gundam Seed in the president's office? pyramid-coconut haircut. they're still cool?

[Radd]

I doubt Alto' co-workers (doesn't sound like they're classmates, meaning we've only met one of his classmates so far and that is the girl in glasses we see working at the chinese restaurant) don't strike me as being pansies. It's been heavily hinted (well, they might as well have said it outright, and depending on the quality of the translations we've seen I'd say they actually did say it outright and Mikhail's name just gets translated differently when different people say it) that they work for SMS when they're not doing flight performances and camera work for concerts. Another thing to consider, are those X-Gears school issue? Or did Mikhail and company get them through their work at SMS for private, civilian use? These are a few things being taken for granted that I'm not certain are accurate.

[Axelay]

Just watched it this morning - no less than 4 times.

I am positively excited to see where this series will go.

A few questions/observations:

1. How many episodes is this slated to be?

2. Do we know yet who has the license to produce merchandise?

3. When I first saw Ozma's armored VF-25, I couldn't help but be somewhat reminded of the Axelay. It's not a spot-on likeness, just a slight similarity in shape.

4. Monsters. Must. Die. I thoroughly despise them already.

[azrael]

1. How many episodes is this slated to be?

2. Do we know yet who has the license to produce merchandise?

3. When I first saw Ozma's armored VF-25, I couldn't help but be somewhat reminded of the Axelay. It's not a spot-on likeness, just a slight similarity in shape.

4. Monsters. Must. Die. I thoroughly despise them already.

1. We hear it will be 26 episodes.

2. Word is Bandai.

[Duke Togo]

Just watched it this morning - no less than 4 times.

I am positively excited to see where this series will go.

A few questions/observations:

1. How many episodes is this slated to be?

2. Do we know yet who has the license to produce merchandise?

3. When I first saw Ozma's armored VF-25, I couldn't help but be somewhat reminded of the Axelay. It's not a spot-on likeness, just a slight similarity in shape.

4. Monsters. Must. Die. I thoroughly despise them already.

1. 26

2. I thought Yamato, but someone was yacking about Bandai in a few posts. I don't know.

3. Axelay always reminded me of the Valkyrie trainer from DYRL

[wolfx]

There's no reason why both Yamato and Bandai can't make toys together...unless Bandai was one of the major sponsors for the show and got exclusive rights.

Edited January 4, 2008 by wolfx

[SpacyAce2012]

I watched it again today and noticed another homage. I don't know if someone else mentioned it, but the "booms" of the Macross-looking structure had the numbers "01" and "02" painted at the end of the runway. The ARMD 01 and ARMD 02, perhaps? And the take-off sequences of the Ex-suit reminded me of the carrier launch of VF-1s in the original series.

From the aft-quarter, the armored VF-25 reminded me of the VF-2SS SAP for some reason.

[Radd]

Open up your copies of the Shoji Kawamori Design Works. Turn to page 56, top of the page. The VF-25 armour reminds me of that. Not the "Hikaru" version, but the "Skull leader" version.

[deadghost]

LOL I was thinking reimagined Battlestar Galactica too

I hope its good like Battlestar Galactica

BTW

I love the way the space bug kills the VF-25 pilot

Man are you crazy how could you like the scene when gilliam died man, I thought he was a great character and asset, his tattoo on his face was a pretty cool character design. what a waste of a good character.

Edited January 4, 2008 by deadghost

[chrono]

Man are you crazy how could you like the scene when gilliam died man, I thought he was a great character and asset, his tattoo on his face was a pretty cool character design. what a waste of a good character.

If you aren't willing to kill off a character, let alone a balanced and likable character, than you can't get across the depth and meaning of your story. Besides they are known for killing for secondary characters and even main characters to prove a point. And I think that point was firmly delivered in the episode. Sure I may seem like a waste but he was hardly what you could call a developed character.

[Sumdumgai]

I liked Guillame/Gilliam better that Physica. It was a shame they killed him off so fast. I was starting to find him interesting.

Ranka's probably traumatized for life.

[Zinjo]

Which begs the question of whether it has any use at all.

Does it allow colonists to see out into space? No (except when there's a battle nearby)

Does it close quickly enough to protect colonists from battle? No

Could it protect colony from heat of atmosphere entry? Yes, but no obvious shells on the Island modules

It was a neat idea, but fairly impractical. What I could accept, actually is that the Islands are newer additions that have a more advanced shell system built into those ribs.

The dome is a physical clear shell and what most are overlooking is that the Redbug had to use of it's mini-macross cannon to blast a hole in it. I suspect that outer shell is a protection device (as well as a holographic emitter like it was used in Mac 7 (although I prefer the more realistic close time in Frontier) and could be for things like meteor showers, protection from a close proximity to a star and atmospheric descent, not only for battle protection.

The battle caught the fleet by surprise as was the ineffectiveness of the NUNS VF-171s against the Hammerheads and Redbugs. The speed at which the aliens reached the fleet gave them no time to drop the dome. Then there is the situation of the "Island" ships which have no such protection. The deploying of the SMS and the barrage from the cruisers bought some time, but only enough to get the civilians into shelters.

Edited January 5, 2008 by Zinjo

[Axelay]

Say, could someone please inform me as to the name of the music composer for Frontier? I am thoroughly enjoying the music so far and can't wait for it to come out on CD.

[Graham]

Yoko Kanno of Macross Plus fame is one of or the main composer.

Graham

[isa_o]

where is episode 2?!?

[deadghost]

where is episode 2?!?

ah man my friend, prepare yourself for some bad news,you wont see it till april, give me a pm around that time and al send you a link to the torrent.

As for me I am going to put myself into a induced coma until that time, hopefully I will wake up at exactly at that time with no brain damage and not finding myself waking up 20 years from now.lol That shows you how I hate waiting.

[Zinjo]

From the aft-quarter, the armored VF-25 reminded me of the VF-2SS SAP for some reason.

2 totally different armored packs. The Armored pack for the VF-25 looks more like a gundam armor pack than Mac II...

[UN Spacy]

Has ANYONE seen the first thirty minutes (aka retrospective) of the Frontiers of Macross special?

I saw the Kawamori Lego segment but that's about it.

[grss1982]

Hi, please can you help me to download this tv special, I do not find this file in the first post links!!!!

Tnx.

Read the first post. ;-)

[Duke Togo]

As far as I know, the special itself is not out there.

[isa_o]

april! lol looog wait. hope it's not release on the first. lol

ah man my friend, prepare yourself for some bad news,you wont see it till april, give me a pm around that time and al send you a link to the torrent.

As for me I am going to put myself into a induced coma until that time, hopefully I will wake up at exactly at that time with no brain damage and not finding myself waking up 20 years from now.lol That shows you how I hate waiting.

Edited January 6, 2008 by isa_o

[Axelay]

Got a question.

Has it been explained what SMS stands for? (If so, please forgive.) I couldn't help but wonder if it was something like Shinsei Military Systems. It'd help to explain why SMS has the newest fighters.

[wolfx]

Got a question.

Has it been explained what SMS stands for? (If so, please forgive.) I couldn't help but wonder if it was something like Shinsei Military Systems. It'd help to explain why SMS has the newest fighters.

Sivilian Military Sontractor?

[Kelsain]

Got a question.

Has it been explained what SMS stands for? (If so, please forgive.) I couldn't help but wonder if it was something like Shinsei Military Systems. It'd help to explain why SMS has the newest fighters.

That's an idea. Shinsei decides to cut out the middle man and use it's own fighters directly. Come to think of it, their jackets are red & black, and the stripes on the YF-19 prototype were red & black...

[baronv]

Just watched the first episode and liked it. It was nice to see a lot of valk action compared to the first episodes from Mac Zero. Frontier though evoked a lot of M+/Neon Genesis E/Gundam F91 for me.

The only thing I don't get is the inclusion of the storyline of the main male character being too feminine....what's up with that. Guess he may cut off that long hair once he becomes a full fighter pilot?

[Duke Togo]

The only thing I don't get is the inclusion of the storyline of the main male character being too feminine....what's up with that. Guess he may cut off that long hair once he becomes a full fighter pilot?

A Macross character cut their hair? Uh huh

[Mark Nguyen]

A Macross character cut their hair? Uh huh

Indeed. Welcome to anime fads of 2008 - where if a male lead character isn't all emo and vaguely effeminate, he just ain't cool. We're having just OODLES of fun trying to keep the fangirls at bay from Gundam 00 for just that reason.

Mark

Edited January 7, 2008 by Mark Nguyen

[Final Vegeta]

I too watched this episode many times. It's really great. On one hand it's a standard premise, the enemy comes and the protagonist hops aboard the mecha, on the other hand it's stuffed with many Macross references, we got the waitress singer-to-be, the concert, the color motifs on the Valkyries, so it's kind of familiar and yet new.

I liked how they matched the sense of wonder of the viewer about this city travelling in the space with the emotion felt by the protagonist, Sheryl, in the first scene. As secretly disagreeable as she may be, there would be no point if she started the first episode with a bored mood. I also liked how the arrival of Sheryl provoked reactions in real time to the other protagonists. Even before the concert, they kind of interacted.

I read on this thread negatives reactions which were mostly pointless, especially if you watched other Macross series. I won't argue about how Super Robot and Real Robot shows are done, but I wish to clear something about the protagonist.

Maybe it's because Macross Zero and Macross Frontier were spaced by Aquarion, which has a more "solar" type of character, that these two series have a protagonist that could arguably be seen as similar (in the beginning of the show verging on the schizoid personality disorder). Tridimensional characters have to deal with many different kinds of emotions, so angst is among them, yet obviously despite their innate character they can't have a fixed mood, otherwise they wouldn't be tridimensional. In the first episode of Macross Frontier the protagonist is even seen smiling and being enthusiastic, something angsty characters don't do.

The key here is called "polarity". It's perfectly normal that a scene which goes bad for a character will seen him angsty. If the scene is good for a character, the character instead should be happy. This is polarity. A good show works alternating polarity between good and bad, each swing growing wider in polarity until the end.

Maybe the fault of Macross Frontier was simply that it started with a negative polarity for the protagonist (him being bored and insulted by Michael) instead of a positive polarity (I think in Macross Plus Isamu skydiving or fighting enemies could be counted as positive, while in Macross Zero Shin thinking about war could be counted as negative).

Personally, I liked the cockyness of the character. It's funny how, when I first watched the design, I thought that he looked manly compared to other mecha shows, and he ended up being a descendant of a family specialized in female roles in kabuki theatre.

Other things I think nobody said:

-on the official site, in the mechanics section, the red enemy is called "bajura" (katakana), which should be translated as "Vajra", which means "lightning". Maybe the yellow enemy will be called "makara", an Hindu mythical monster (wikipedia is your friendfor further info).

-we already saw Bobby Margo and Kamelia Vershtein (they are in the staff of SMS, Bobby as a bridge bunny, Kamelia in the bar).

-in the trailer of the next episode, we are clarified about Michael role in the SMS (by the way, I think it's "Luca" and not "Luka". He appears to have an Italian name).

FV

[Radd]

Indeed. Welcome to anime fads of 2008 - where if a male lead character isn't all emo

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

and vaguely effeminate, he just ain't cool. We're having just OODLES of fun trying to keep the fangirls at bay from Gundam 00 for just that reason.

I just can't wait until the next anime season!

[Zinjo]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

INCONCEIVABLE!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The vibe I get is he is a girlish guy, but serious about proving himself to his parents. Maybe how like minmay had to fight with her own parents in SDF:M to prove her singing career was a serious thing. So possibly this alto guy needs to quickly prove to everyone (not just himself) that his path to be a fighter pilot is serious.

He is the second best, so he has to live in the shadow of some other guy. (just like hikaru always being left behind by roy)

So that's why he's pissed. Until they give him a chance to pilot a real machine (bits of dyson here where he is bored like hell with the slow-ass vf-11 cannon fodder in the opening rogue zentradi fights) he can't rise up and show his true self.

He is interesting: whereas hikaru is conflicted by his anti-war attitude to flying fighters and wants nothing to do with it, but torn apart by his need to show minmay he is superior to his sempai, this alto guy is like a reverse of that: wanting to fly, knowing the valk is his dream, but then sees the military not helping the non-vip civilians so is digusted by that part. (just a reverse of hikaru: rather than being insecure at first then confident later, he will probably be sure of himself like gamlin, then maybe rethink the choices and predjudices he has later and being less of a "try-too-hard" like misa was in the original and maybe learn to relax a bit)

In sdf macross most of the soldiers hate war too but were forced to fight, whereas here it's like war = "giving meaning to my life", freedom to fly higher with less restrictions, so it's a selfish reason to cure boredom. Hopefully they show the horror of fighting though and instead of do what they did in SDF:macross by having cannon fodder just die as background soldiers, show closer characters dying in gruesome ways to make the characters get darker in mood and more serious and less selfish quickly. (ie bitchslap scene in DYRL for example) That would be faithful to macross (how the characters change from one attitude to another one) without being a complete clone. (all the people are just new versions of the old ones with no surprise twists for the older fans who've seen SDF:macross and want something new)

Now I know basara might have been popular as a character to fans of macross 7 but honestly having a character who is so sure of himself throughout the whole series is not a realistic thing. It's one dimensional cardboard cut out characters from super hero shows that are like that. Adults wants drama and depth like the macross of old where it's more like a space opera. You can still make macross a vehicle to sell merchandise without sacrificing what made it a good-to-watch series for people of all ages and timeless classic. The key is to not just aim at "fans", but everyone without sacrificing what those existing fans like to see. (for example for me I'm glad there is more ships about in F. You never got the feeling there was anything major happening outside the main characters of basara and mylene in macross 7, whereas in SDF: macross there was more secondary characters involvement too. Sure the love triangle is going to be important but it shouldn't be the only thing going on)

Edited January 8, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[wolfx]

All this talk about biomechanical monsters..... i suddenly had an idea that the monsters are probably biological in nature but wearing armour and brain-interface or mind control helmets controlled by humanoids through thoughts alone.

But seriously the more I watch Frontier the more I think the monsters came from Byston Well (That's Dunbine's world)

[Kelsain]

I was just watching the show again, and I just had a new take on Alto's "angsty" scene before the concert. It seems like most of us have been looking at this scene as though he's continuing the complaint of the sky being to low in the colony, and he feels trapped. This time around, it seemed like it was more specific to the moment: He crumples the paper plane that had soared before and says "I don't want to be here, in a place where I can barely breathe."* ie: I don't want to do this job; they're canceling my maneuvers and I have to fly around in an enclosed building. It almost looked like he wasn't going to the concert at all, but for Ranka showing up. He guides her there, playing it cool, but he actually likes her, so decides to go ahead with the job (queue fountain and commercial break). Then during the job, he is little impressed with Sheryl, but seeks out Ranka in the very large crowd.

Maybe I'm a little behind the curve and this is how you all read the scene before; but IMO, taking it this way makes Alto a little more likeable.

*Shinsen subs

Edited January 8, 2008 by Kelsain