Macross 25th Anniversary TV Special thread *READ THE 1ST POST*

[Duke Togo]

What's the 1995 event (in the Macross timeline) everyone keeps referring to? Can someone explain?

As I understand it, its the year that Macross diverges from our real world timeline. I could be totally and horribly wrong, though.

[VF5SS]

If I may take a minute to talk about Real Robot and where Macross fits in. First off, Real Robot encompasses a lot of different series that seem to be more fantasy than real like Dunbine, L-Gaim, and Five Star Stories. So the humble Scopedog and the tremendously powerful LED Mirage are both Real Robot types. Macross and its Valkyries have always been on the higher end in terms of sheer ability. Let's face it, they're transforming fighters that can do pretty much anything from flying to swimming to space travel or even getting buried by rocks. The Armored VF-25 is a bit more garish like a Stampede Valkyrie but it's still armed with guns and missiles like a Strike Valkyrie. Maybe if it was like the Metal Siren I could see a it being more Super Robot like.

[Zinjo]

No, seriously. He's frustrated that he can only fly so high (within the ship, in his Ex-Gear). There is some statement about the possibility of Alto joining the military (I am assuming NUNS) once he has graduated. Also, he *can* fly a civilian plane now, but that doesn't seem all that exciting to him.

I don't see his plans "falling through". That is, unless you are talking about their performance at the concert, which he didn't seemed to thrilled to do to begin with. All of that is secondary to his dream of flying Valkyries.

Exactly. He somehow missed out on fighter training like Luca and Micheal are doing and Luca was trying to comfort him with the comment that he can still fly commercial ships. Not something a fighter pilot wannabe is going to want to hear... Even in the military you have to qualify to become a fighter pilot, no one joins the airforce, navy or marines as a pilot. I get the impression he had his hopes set on flying with the SMS like his team mates and for some reason that fell through...

[RichterX]

As I understand it, its the year that Macross diverges from our real world timeline. I could be totally and horribly wrong, though.

Wasn't that the year that Minmei was born? was that the event ?

[Zinjo]

Maybe if it was like the Metal Siren I could see a it being more Super Robot like.

I never found the Metal Siren a super robot type. It was a very powerful (yet Fugly) fighter piloted by an ace, which gave it the vibe of a super robot, but not actually being one, IMO...

[Duke Togo]

He somehow missed out on fighter training like Luca and Micheal are doing and Luca was trying to comfort him with the comment that he can still fly commercial ships. Not something a fighter pilot wannabe is going to want to hear... Even in the military you have to qualify to become a fighter pilot, no one joins the airforce, navy or marines as a pilot. I get the impression he had his hopes set on flying with the SMS like his team mates and for some reason that fell through...

Again, huh? We don't know how Luca or Michael are involved with the SMS, and Alto doesn't seem to have any idea where those guys went off to. SMS is a private organization, who knows how covert their operations are. If Alto knew about them, he wouldn't have been shocked to see the VF-25.

My impression is that Alto thinks he is ready to fly *now*, and that having to wait until he graduates is a waste of his talents.

[Duke Togo]

Wasn't that the year that Minmei was born? was that the event ?

No idea. I remember when I first heard about this 1995 thing, I took it to mean they were splitting off an alternate Macross timeline. I really not 100% sure on anything about it, really.

[VF5SS]

I never found the Metal Siren a super robot type. It was a very powerful (yet Fugly) fighter piloted by an ace, which gave it the vibe of a super robot, but not actually being one, IMO...

Well the Metal Siren does have a "powered up" mode where it unleashes its omni-directional attack. Plus the whole idea of entering an enemy ship just to trigger this attack is kinda super robot like.

[Zinjo]

Again, huh? We don't know how Luca or Michael are involved with the SMS, and Alto doesn't seem to have any idea where those guys went off to.

Huh?

We as the audience know where they went and that during an alert they were called in, it is apparent their participation in the combat operations is required. Switching from one point of view to another is not helping you make a point.

SMS is a private organization, who knows how covert their operations are. If Alto knew about them, he wouldn't have been shocked to see the VF-25.

Obviously not very covert. They have a public building, the public knows about their existence as well as the military. The only thing the public didn't apparently know is what equipment they were using, as if the average citizen really cared.

My impression is that Alto thinks he is ready to fly *now*, and that having to wait until he graduates is a waste of his talents.

That too is a viable possibility.

Well the Metal Siren does have a "powered up" mode where it unleashes its omni-directional attack. Plus the whole idea of entering an enemy ship just to trigger this attack is kinda super robot like.

I believe the "power up" mode is akin to a PBB overload ala SDFM. It's lance has a PBB which is uses to rip into the hulls of enemy capital ships and I don't recall if it has an omni-directional barrier in use on the fighter (it is doubtful, but possible)...

Edited January 3, 2008 by Zinjo

[Mr March]

If I may take a minute to talk about Real Robot and where Macross fits in. First off, Real Robot encompasses a lot of different series that seem to be more fantasy than real like Dunbine, L-Gaim, and Five Star Stories. So the humble Scopedog and the tremendously powerful LED Mirage are both Real Robot types. Macross and its Valkyries have always been on the higher end in terms of sheer ability. Let's face it, they're transforming fighters that can do pretty much anything from flying to swimming to space travel or even getting buried by rocks. The Armored VF-25 is a bit more garish like a Stampede Valkyrie but it's still armed with guns and missiles like a Strike Valkyrie. Maybe if it was like the Metal Siren I could see a it being more Super Robot like.

I agree for the most part. The real robot genre is only loosely defined anyway, typically meant to encompass those shows that present the robots as common vehicles used in a plausible military fashion. Super robot shows typically feature unique, one-of-a-kind super powered robots that are nigh invincible. Even the original real robot show, Gundam, skirted very close to the definition of a super robot, though future Gundam productions did a much better job selling the Gundam as a real robot (read: Gundam 0080, 08th MS Team, et cetera). As for the Valkyries, I'll agree their versatility is probably the high end of the real robot genre, but their capabilities are definitely not. Any Valkyrie is easily eclipsed by the Mortar Headds of The Five Star Stories, as are nearly all other real robots with which I'm familiar. Macross Frontier so far is solidly set in the real robot genre. The VF-25 as well as the VF-171 are presented in line with most Valkyries in other Macross productions. The most "super robot" Macross ever became was Sound Force in Macross 7, which is thankfully far behind us.

Edited January 3, 2008 by Mr March

[VF5SS]

I believe the "power up" mode is akin to a PBB overload ala SDFM. It's lance has a PBB which is uses to rip into the hulls of enemy capital ships and I don't recall if it has an omni-directional barrier in use on the fighter (it is doubtful, but possible)...

The effect wasn't really like the barrier overload. It was more of an EMP attack that made things it touched explode for whatever reason.

[Duke Togo]

Huh?

We as the audience know where they went and that during an alert they were called in, it is apparent their participation in the combat operations is required. Switching from one point of view to another is not helping you make a point.

I'm sorry, I was under the impression we were talking about Alto's state of mind, not mine. And we really don't know what roles Luca and Michael play. We don't actually know what they were being called for.

Once again, the only thing that's clear is that Alto its frustrated with having to wait until he graduates to fly Valkyries. Anything outside of that is guess work at best, and fanfiction at worst.

[Duke Togo]

Obviously not very covert. They have a public building, the public knows about their existence as well as the military. The only thing the public didn't apparently know is what equipment they were using, as if the average citizen really cared.

We don't know that they have a public building. They may very well keep quarters aboard Battle 25. And just because their existance is known doesn't mean the public knows what is going on with them. Their operations on board may very well be covert. And the average citizen might not care about their equipment, but Alto *clearly* does, and he was surprised.

[kanedaestes]

I work on a base that has SOCOM, Special Operations Command. I knw they are there, but i don't honestly know what goes on there. So there is my argument about that. It's like the CIA, you know about them, you sort of know what they do and what they use but that knowledge is like 5% of their overall capabilities and what is really going on behind closed doors.

[big F]

guys, I think we're overanalizing Macross F... let's just let it be, we can't come to any definitive conclusion from a 26 min episode

Overanalyzing? No, we must wring every bit of data out of this episode. And the manga. And from the doujins already on their way, I'm sure.

LOL after 23 pages no of cause were not

I work on a base that has SOCOM, Special Operations Command. I knw they are there, but i don't honestly know what goes on there. So there is my argument about that. It's like the CIA, you know about them, you sort of know what they do and what they use but that knowledge is like 5% of their overall capabilities and what is really going on behind closed doors.

The iceberg theory. What you see is about 1/3 of what's there

Edited January 3, 2008 by big F

[Scream Man]

Also, while the SMS may be known to public, that's not to say the people on the ship know who is a part of the organisation. Like the Justice League is public, but no one knows superman is Clark Kent.

[RichterX]

The Macross Frontier president or commander didn't even order the shell down of the city section, were they wanting the insect guys to invade the city section? If we compare the evacuation prosedures of M7 with the ones of MF, Mf seems that they don't really care much about civilian safety, even in the park were Fire Bomber was having his concert some kind of elevator pop out to take the civilians underground. The civilians in Sheryls concert should had been evacuated into some kind of basement shelter.

Also i don't remember hearing city wide alarm sirens, we did hear them in Macross 7 and even in SDFM warning people of a attack on the fleet or enemy incursion into the town.

[Duke Togo]

The Macross Frontier president or commander didn't even order the shell down of the city section, were they wanting the insect guys to invade the city section?

Certainly a question many of us are wondering about.

Also i don't remember hearing city wide alarm sirens, we did hear them in Macross 7 and even in SDFM warning people of a attack on the fleet or enemy incursion into the town.

Watch it again, they warn everybody. Just about everything in the town has some sort of screen on it (or is a screen), and they all showed the warning to go to the shelters.

[Sergorn]

The Macross Frontier president or commander didn't even order the shell down of the city section, were they wanting the insect guys to invade the city section?

The thing even weirder about that - is that we actally see a shell-down countdown on the controle screen

-Sergorn

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I'm late to the thread: Only just watched this. Great level of speed in the flying and its like watching an OVA. I hope they do not remove the exaggerated physics of cartoon mech fights that I liked so much about macross now that they are going cg.

The valks need to be able to still move around effortlessly (think the battroid fight from macross plus) able to make sharp sudden natural movements and be a contrast to the slower heavier destroid robots which are weighed down by the "real robot" laws (can die easily after being shot, usually acts as a cannon fodder that stands still most of the time) and not an action hero doing fancy impossible moves and elite group kills with ease etc

One of the only things I miss: the "pachoo" sound effect of the lasers from SDF:macross. I wonder if the tv series will have an arcade game aboard the ships with the "Pachoo" laser sound?

Looks like they did go down the bio-mechanoid alien/monster route after all. Something scary and dangerous at last. You know the aliens in R-type and Life force games? That's what I was imaging they could do but married with the technology/magic/spirit of the PD so they are real living things that can breed and stuff like the things in tekkamon blade. This way the reaction weapons are useful again and you don't have milia preaching that you should be reasoning with the alien like in SDF:macross when she was begging for max to not kill the pilots inside the mecha.

If the aliens are more scary, this way the trigger-happy military has something to do in the macross universe apart from rely on basara to save them all the time, you know what I mean?

Edited January 3, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[EXO]

I kinda wanted the defold sound from the old series, when I first saw Sheryl's shuttle arrive.

[Beltane70]

As Sergorn said, we actually do see a shell down percentage counter on one of the tactical displays. I think they're trying to convey the idea that the shell is a pretty massive structure that actually takes a considerable amount of time to lower.

[Roy Focker]

You going to keep trolling this thread?

Are you?

Call Alpo frustated, dull, emo or anything else the point is right now Alpo ain't that interesting. Maybe if you feel a connection to depressed and moody pretty boys then he's the boy for you. What happen to more upbeat characters? It is just a reflection of the times? Are today's teens all like Alpo? Are they all frustrated and they will relate to him or is he there for the little girls.

[Kelsain]

As Sergorn said, we actually do see a shell down percentage counter on one of the tactical displays. I think they're trying to convey the idea that the shell is a pretty massive structure that actually takes a considerable amount of time to lower.

Which begs the question of whether it has any use at all.

Does it allow colonists to see out into space? No (except when there's a battle nearby)

Does it close quickly enough to protect colonists from battle? No

Could it protect colony from heat of atmosphere entry? Yes, but no obvious shells on the Island modules

It was a neat idea, but fairly impractical. What I could accept, actually is that the Islands are newer additions that have a more advanced shell system built into those ribs.

[lord_breetai]

wooooooooo......ok....can someone explain to me what am I looking at, christ those nasty images will hunt my mind for the rest of my life.

Doujin or Doujinshi is a self-published comic, often it's also a fan-work. Really big in the Japanese otaku community, where they have big festivals where they are sold... often but not always it is pornographic.

[briscojr84]

Which begs the question of whether it has any use at all.

Does it allow colonists to see out into space? No (except when there's a battle nearby)

Does it close quickly enough to protect colonists from battle? No

Could it protect colony from heat of atmosphere entry? Yes, but no obvious shells on the Island modules

It was a neat idea, but fairly impractical. What I could accept, actually is that the Islands are newer additions that have a more advanced shell system built into those ribs.

I believe the lid is also used to project a holographic sky.

[wolfx]

Which begs the question of whether it has any use at all.

Does it allow colonists to see out into space? No (except when there's a battle nearby)

Does it close quickly enough to protect colonists from battle? No

Could it protect colony from heat of atmosphere entry? Yes, but no obvious shells on the Island modules

It was a neat idea, but fairly impractical. What I could accept, actually is that the Islands are newer additions that have a more advanced shell system built into those ribs.

Good point. If the sky is a projection from the dome, why have the glass at all? Just leave it closed.

[SpacyAce2012]

Watched the sub on YouTube. It looked impressive, if a bit rushed in terms of story pace.

I look forward to more. Then, I'll offer my final opinion on this newest Macross series.

[Pat S]

Good point. If the sky is a projection from the dome, why have the glass at all? Just leave it closed.

Sunlight to grow things, and at night, a real starlit sky?

[wolfx]

It seems to me they have artificial sunlight from the dome already. But again...good point.

[Duke Togo]

Maybe I'm wrong, but for reason I don't recall the closing of the shell to be that big of an issue in M7. I dunno, maybe the animation for the dome closing isn't finished yet.

[Kelsain]

Good point. If the sky is a projection from the dome, why have the glass at all? Just leave it closed.

Like in the original series, originally the city had a very obvious ceiling until they built upon the ship's holographic system to project a sky for the sanity of the civvies.

Another thing is that, open or not, the atmospheric density seems to make the sky blue even when looking away from the shell ("What is that? a battle?"). So even with a big clear dome, the people inside don't really see outside unless it's something obvious - I imagine a nearby star, planet or moon would be visible. Maybe it's like trying to look through a window from a light room into a dark room, and the light is reflected back at you.

Well heck, another reason not to have big clear domes - what about when they're distant from a star? Then the Islands would be all dark and gloomy, lit only from the narrow ribs. Not the best system if these are the Ag ships. This might be averted if the colony fleet only folds into systems with Sun-like stars, which does make some sense. Really though, I see no reason for them to use the domes except to show that there are cities and lakes in these ships.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Kelsain

[macrossvf-1msx]

i really liked this episode! a++++

i saw several scenes that seemed to be inspired by the reimagined Battlestar Galactica. The combat scenes had the same fluidity that BSG has and what really resonated as BSG inspired was when the enemy went in amongst the fleet ships. AMAZING.

i can't wait for April and fansubs.

my japanese is very barbaric so i am not going to fool myself that i understood even a fraction of the dialogue, haha.

this has me tearing my hair out (well, maybe just one single hair) though because i am working on a fanfic project and now i have to change some things around because SK decided to make the Megaroad 04 discover Eden, when previously, the compendium had the Megaroads as super long distance fleets, not short range.

oh well, his universe, haha.

LOL I was thinking reimagined Battlestar Galactica too

I hope its good like Battlestar Galactica

BTW

I love the way the space bug kills the VF-25 pilot

[Keith]

The reason for the open domes is more obvious than it appears. When the City ships enter a hospitable atmosphere, the barrier can be turned off to let in real air/sky. I'd also assume it would make it easier to convert the City ship into a real city, though how the dome would be ejected has yet to be seen.

The dome itself being there in case the barrier should absolutely fail, or an out of the ordinary occurance, like the City ship heading into a sun should happen, it provides a larger degree of Protection. I also assume allowing for a real starlit sky has something to do with it.

Also, Focker, lay off Alto, he's barely been around for an episode, far too soon to beat on him. We don't even know much of his family history/situation yet. Though off the bat, he does remind me somewhat of Shin. Possibly even a little bit like DYRL Hikaru.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Keith

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Alto = slightly more manly than the guy with glasses who was teased by the bridge bunnies in SDF:macross.

But he could end up being like a dyson (bored being stuck with noobs) trapped in max's body. (looks like he'd get beaten easily in a fight but actually kicks people's butts because SK is playing with people's minds.)

Hopefully these monsters are scary in the same way the zentradi were as giants when first introduced to the humans in DYRL with tentacles and all. Remember when hikaru first encountered his first giant after not knowing why his plane transformed into a giant robot? That's what they need to do with these mechanoid beasts.

Bring back the fear and danger.

Make humans weak again in a struggle for survival where the odds are against them in some david vs goliath battle. That was the key to why hikaru was needed: military had no idea what to do, and the young inexperienced crew had skills that might bring advantages in situations that older pilots would not be prepared for due to their their old school thinking which might hold them back from learning quickly.

I think the insects will probably end up like the race in space battleship yamato who have to breed constantly and be forced to kill weaker races in order to survive due to time being against them and then kawamori wil make us feel sorry for them and he'll make the humans and zentradi make love to them which results in a humanoid insect race with unique powers. (they are hated by the zentradi though for taking away all the jobs because they are more efficient killers which results in a civil war aboard the ships. This then results in a great divide of races whose cultures clash too much and the anti-un rise to power once again)

Edited January 4, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker