Macross 25th Anniversary TV Special thread *READ THE 1ST POST*

[Dio]

In Macross DYRL we see it being an expression of shock or surprise for Zentraedi. I think it's sorta an all purpose word like the Norwegian Uffda!

I'm going to follow up on this discussion, because that was one of the questions this first episode left me asking - why call it the "Deculture Edition," and what significance does the term have to the episode, the Chinese restaurant, or the plot in general?

Theory 1

"Deculture" is an active verbal form of "to deculturate," which means to cause the loss or abandonment of culture or cultural characteristics of (a people, society, etc.).

On its own, I wouldn't think it had any significance, but in the presence of the APHOS - "Protoculture" - it seems to have a lot of relevance if you consider how the Big Red Space Monster is acting. It's possible they have encountered some sort of primitive, barbaric offshoot of the Protoculture species, or even worse still they may have run into remnants of the Protoculture nearer the galactic core, which have in some way been corrupted to become this destructive entity or were already weaponized subgroups from that civilization.

We might want to consider how the original APHOS in Zero behaved - it seemed primitive and instinct-driven, but that one was different in that it had a human controlling it compared to these new autonomous monsters. I'm still a bit confused by the Zero APHOS and why it needed a pilot in the first place, so maybe someone more knowledgeable could compare the two for me. However, if we wish to tie this back to Zero we might also consider the possibility that the APHOS flying off into space at the end may be the root cause of this entire conflict - if Sara and Shin were taken up by the bird-human, they (or the situation the bird-human was escaping) may have had an effect on whatever its exodus led to (perhaps the center of the galaxy with the rest of its kind?). Considering what kind of message it might bring back, the surviving Protoculture could easily decide that the civilizations they tried to set up will inevitably try to kill themselves or each other, and should therefore just be eradicated and end their great cosmic experiment. Sort of like an armageddon - or a destruction of a culture, as the definition states.

Needless to say, the homages/clues are reaching out and smacking us in the face. There is some connection between Big Red Space Monster and the APHOS, and it will most likely get explained in later episodes. Keep in mind, too, that Macross Zero is still quite fresh in the minds of the production staff, so it's very likely to have some bearing on the story of this new series.

Theory 2

Kawamori is having some fun with us, since (as mentioned earlier) Exedore says "de culture" as a synonym for shock or surprise. This was our "special sneak peek surprise edition" episode of Frontier, so perhaps it's nothing more than a humorous wordplay on his part.

Theory 3

Ranka's mention of deculture, as if it were an item served on the menu at her restaurant, might just be a playful way of saying "take a break from your own society and experience an exotic culture by eating at our (ethnically-themed) restaurant!"

[ssfsx17]

Don't forget the term "yuck deculture," which is said when the Zentraedi see people holding hands and kissing and stuff.

[Renato]

It's just a reference to the screams of "dekalcha! (deculture!)" by the Zentradi in the original. It was a very famous phrase amongst fans and so it's sort of an in-joke now.

[Dio]

It's just a reference to the screams of "dekalcha! (deculture!)" by the Zentradi in the original. It was a very famous phrase amongst fans and so it's sort of an in-joke now.

Well, one out of three ain't bad

[wolfx]

It's just a reference to the screams of "dekalcha! (deculture!)" by the Zentradi in the original. It was a very famous phrase amongst fans and so it's sort of an in-joke now.

That's what I thought. ANd unlike Dio's elaborate theories....i just thought its De Culture = The Culture =DA KALCHA. So its like Zentraedi hears singing and they go "ZOMG ITS THE CULTURE!! "

Macross 7's fleet of the strongest Women had it too.

[Beltane70]

According to the mini Zentraedi-Japanese dictionary in "This Is Animation The Select 11 - Macross: DYRL" the "de" in dekalcha is separated from "kalcha" by a dot. "De" by itself translates as denial. Unfortunately, "kalcha" isn't translated. The dictionary has the Zentraedi word for culture as "kaalchuun".

Most of the DYRL subs that I've seen translate "de*kalcha" as unbelievable/impossible.

[Graham]

There seems to be an animation error with the VF-171 that Ozma first flies up next to.

When we first see it shortly before Ozma arrives, it seems to be missing its forearms/vertical tails and instead has some sort of cylindrical object mounted in place of the forearms (see attached screen captures).

Yet later on the forearms reappear!

At first I thought it might be a new variant, but later on after Ozma finishes talking to the pilot, the forearms magically reappear.

Graham

[wolfx]

Geez graham you VF-17 freak. Good catch though. It would seem the whole forearm piece is missing from the animation. Probably when making the trailer they forgot about it and since its too fast nobody's gonna realise it (other than the amazing Graham ).

EDIT: I also found out that the moment the VF-171s let out their missile barrage during Sheryl's singing, the forearms are missing but they're still there just before they launch the missiles. 0.o

Edited December 29, 2007 by wolfx

[eugimon]

Geez graham you VF-17 freak. Good catch though. It would seem the whole forearm piece is missing from the animation. Probably when making the trailer they forgot about it and since its too fast nobody's gonna realise it (other than the amazing Graham ).

EDIT: I also found out that the moment the VF-171s let out their missile barrage during Sheryl's singing, the forearms are missing but they're still there just before they launch the missiles. 0.o

yup, here's a screenshot of that at 12:45

[Graham]

Hopefully, the missing VF-171 forearms will be added in time for when the 1st episode airs in April 2008.

Another possible mecha animation error is in the asteroid field when Ozma transforms his Armored VF-25 from Gerwalk to battroid mode. You see him transform to battroid, but then the next frame he is back in Gerwalk mode again and transformingto battroid again!

Graham

[eugimon]

Hopefully, the missing VF-171 forearms will be added in time for when the 1st episode airs in April 2008.

Another possible animation error is when Ozma transforms his Armored VF-25 to battroid mode in the asteroid field. You see him transform to battroid, but then the next frame he is in Gerwalk and transforming to battroid again.

Graham

I think that scene was just meant as an instant replay from a different angle in slow motion. It's pretty much the same scene, he goes from gerwalk to battroid, so there's no continuity issues.

[Keith]

Those who actually watched the episode pretty much figured out that there is something shadowy going on behind the scenes. That the APHOS left Earth explains NOTHING. That anyone knew of its existence, ON EARTH, explains nothing. Your reasoning and your conclusions do not make sense. At all.

If they were expecting an alien attack, I would assume it was because of THE NEAR TOTAL ANNIHILATION OF EARTH BY ALIENS. They know aliens are out there. They know the legacy left behind by the Protoculture. That they were expecting these specific creatures speaks to something else.

Agreed. Why suddenly start worrying about an enemy that disappeared 50 years ago, and has shown zero sign of re-appearing despite 2 major conflicts occurring since. Unless they also secretly had a bearing on where the AFOS went, which is highly doubtful, since it bitch slapped the U.N. fleet before leavin. There'd be no reason to believe they'd suddenly randomly run into it. As cocky as militaries get, after tangling with both the Zentradi & Protodevelin, likely the NUNS (still want to call them Spacy) would consider themselves more than capable of dealing with a single AFOS if it were to appear. Besides which, what would place the Frontier fleet at a priority for having Sherly over the Galaxy fleet? Without knowing where it was, you'd think they'd want to pull Sheryl to Earht if the intent was to use her as some kind of defense.

Its far more likely that the NUNS or a civillian expedition fleet secretly screwed with something they shouldn't have, ran away, and sent the Frontier fleet in to bait whatever it was out into the open. Whether that turns out to be AFOS related has yet to be seen.

Edited December 29, 2007 by Keith

[wolfx]

I think that scene was just meant as an instant replay from a different angle in slow motion. It's pretty much the same scene, he goes from gerwalk to battroid, so there's no continuity issues.

Yeah...just like Macross Zero's slow transformation then show it in fast transformation. Shouldn't be an issue.

Another thing I caught. Trams with rice product advertisments?

And the numbering....its 2 in Frontier, 3 and 4 in Dynamite....might be reading into it too much though.

Edited December 29, 2007 by wolfx

[Sorata]

Agreed. Why suddenly start worrying about an enemy that disappeared 50 years ago, and has shown zero sign of re-appearing despite 2 major conflicts occurring since. Unless they also secretly had a bearing on where the AFOS went, which is highly doubtful, since it bitch slapped the U.N. fleet before leavin. There'd be no reason to believe they'd suddenly randomly run into it. As cocky as militaries get, after tangling with both the Zentradi & Protodevelin, likely the NUNS (still want to call them Spacy) would consider themselves more than capable of dealing with a single AFOS if it were to appear. Besides which, what would place the Frontier fleet at a priority for having Sherly over the Galaxy fleet? Without knowing where it was, you'd think they'd want to pull Sheryl to Earht if the intent was to use her as some kind of defense.

Its far more likely that the NUNS or a civillian expedition fleet secretly screwed with something they shouldn't have, ran away, and sent the Frontier fleet in to bait whatever it was out into the open. Whether that turns out to be AFOS related has yet to be seen.

Might as well consider NUNS as UN Spacy or it least a civilian offshoot of it. If you look at the Ghost fighters they have "N.U.N. SPACY" on them. Maybe it means NUNS UN SPACY which implies they are a branch of UN Spacy. It could be that UN Spacy now has NUNS in charge of colony fleets defenses while allowing a civilain military private company SMS that consist of qualified civilians and ex military personnel to assist them similar to Blackwater, Aegis Defence Services and DynCorp. Or it could stand for New United Nations Spacy.

[lord_breetai]

According to the mini Zentraedi-Japanese dictionary in "This Is Animation The Select 11 - Macross: DYRL" the "de" in dekalcha is separated from "kalcha" by a dot. "De" by itself translates as denial. Unfortunately, "kalcha" isn't translated. The dictionary has the Zentraedi word for culture as "kaalchuun".

Most of the DYRL subs that I've seen translate "de*kalcha" as unbelievable/impossible.

But isn't isn't it subbed into Japanese in DYRL? I'll have to double check. I would say it's what you said though... and now it's been adapted by this Meltran youth to be "Unbelievably cool!"

[Zinjo]

Agreed. Why suddenly start worrying about an enemy that disappeared 50 years ago, and has shown zero sign of re-appearing despite 2 major conflicts occurring since. Unless they also secretly had a bearing on where the AFOS went, which is highly doubtful, since it bitch slapped the U.N. fleet before leavin. There'd be no reason to believe they'd suddenly randomly run into it. As cocky as militaries get, after tangling with both the Zentradi & Protodevelin, likely the NUNS (still want to call them Spacy) would consider themselves more than capable of dealing with a single AFOS if it were to appear. Besides which, what would place the Frontier fleet at a priority for having Sherly over the Galaxy fleet? Without knowing where it was, you'd think they'd want to pull Sheryl to Earht if the intent was to use her as some kind of defense.

Well considering the Mac 5 fleet was wiped out except for a portion of its civilian population and the Battle 7 was nearly crippled by the Protodevlin encounter, I don't see how any military would become "cocky" over those pathetic results. It took a rock star to pull their collective bacons out of the fire, if you recall (of all of us Keith, I'd expect you to remember that vividly.. ).

After such a military failure 11 years prior (I am referring to the year 2058, the 50th anniversary of the Mayan event), it is just as conceivable that any plans to extend the information blackout about the AFOS research results and the Mayan Island incident itself was abandonded to give fleet commanders an idea of what forces they may encounter as they approach the galactic core and the heartland of the Protoculture civilization.

Sheryl is on a concert tour of the nearby Frontier fleet, I saw no indication there were plans to use her as any sort of defense... She is a valuable PR commodity on a visit from the Galaxy fleet. There was a mysterious concern over her safety, but no real indication as to why, even from her. If she is recognized as a potential anima spiritia then she'd have value, but that hasn't been revealed to us yet.

Its far more likely that the NUNS or a civillian expedition fleet secretly screwed with something they shouldn't have, ran away, and sent the Frontier fleet in to bait whatever it was out into the open. Whether that turns out to be AFOS related has yet to be seen.

It is a possibility, however "more likely" is debatable since it is just as much speculation as any other.

Though baiting any potential hostile alien forces with 10 million people is pretty wreckless and callous even for the UNG... I'd expect to see several Macross Battle Fortresses in the fleet in that instance. We've only seen one.

[wolfx]

I just saw the VF-X Digital Mission game's ending and realised that the 4 idols singing the Only You song did the mic twirling thing just like Sheryl did. Another homage.

Search for it on youtube since evil mods dont' allow youtube links.

[Duke Togo]

as they approach the galactic core and the heartland of the Protoculture civilization.

Something else I may have missed. When was the center of the galaxy ever said to be the "heartland" of the Protoculture civilization?

Edited December 29, 2007 by Duke Togo

[Ali Sama]

The City ship is the same class as the City 7, however it seems much more urbanly dense than City 7. The Island Ships also have cities, but are more agrarian with forests and lakes, etc... There is a Battlefortress docked at the front as Radd points out, it is harder to see because its colors match that of the City Ship, unlike the bold white and blue of the Battle 7.

I got the same Mac II vibe. However the FAST packs reminded more of Gundam armor packs than Mac II. If you are refering to the Metal Siren, then I agree the Armor Pack is similar.

ah. the shape looks different. I am going to see if I can get the HD rip.

There seems to be an animation error with the VF-171 that Ozma first flies up next to.

When we first see it shortly before Ozma arrives, it seems to be missing its forearms/vertical tails and instead has some sort of cylindrical object mounted in place of the forearms (see attached screen captures).

Yet later on the forearms reappear!

At first I thought it might be a new variant, but later on after Ozma finishes talking to the pilot, the forearms magically reappear.

Graham

It will probably be fixed in the final version.

Hopefully, the missing VF-171 forearms will be added in time for when the 1st episode airs in April 2008.

Another possible mecha animation error is in the asteroid field when Ozma transforms his Armored VF-25 from Gerwalk to battroid mode. You see him transform to battroid, but then the next frame he is back in Gerwalk mode again and transformingto battroid again!

Graham

anyone else notice how the armored vf25 resembles a starfury?

btw. can someone get me a high rez capture of the sms type(not the triangle logo by the type font straight on)on the vf25? I am trying to find the font so I can create templates for everyone. I found a font that looks almost exactly like the sms badge ozma wears.

thanks in advance,

Ali

[Mr March]

Hopefully, the missing VF-171 forearms will be added in time for when the 1st episode airs in April 2008.

Another possible mecha animation error is in the asteroid field when Ozma transforms his Armored VF-25 from Gerwalk to battroid mode. You see him transform to battroid, but then the next frame he is back in Gerwalk mode again and transformingto battroid again!

Graham

I don't think that's an error. The second transformation is markedly slower than the first and suggests the use of a "dramatic double take" designed to enhance the transformation effect dramatically. The double take also provides viewers with an opportunity to watch the transformation process at a slower pace than normal so they can appreciate the detail.

Edited December 29, 2007 by Mr March

[Elektrix]

Yeah...just like Macross Zero's slow transformation then show it in fast transformation. Shouldn't be an issue.

Another thing I caught. Trams with rice product advertisments?

I was thinking that was supposed to be part of the San Francisco vibe.

[Valkyrie addict]

concerning this whole Mikhael (or howere it's spelled), being a junior SMS pilot of some sort, I just hope he doesn't ends up immediately flying a shiny spanking new Brief, I mean, VF-25

[Isamu test pilot]

According with the symbols in the enemy monster, I think that when Shin woke up in the house in the Mayan Island, in the pictures there is a one like this monster and when the president says "they are here" I think that perhaps the Macross Frontier Fleet hadalready some knowledge about the possible danger

[Zinjo]

According with the symbols in the enemy monster, I think that when Shin woke up in the house in the Mayan Island, in the pictures there is a one like this monster and when the president says "they are here" I think that perhaps the Macross Frontier Fleet hadalready some knowledge about the possible danger

No, the shrine was filled with images of the "Birdman" and what appear to be decorated sheilds.

[chrono]

Well I finally finished DL'ing and watching the HD raw. Now before I start I'll say that I'm as nearly as big a fan of macross as one that doesn't spend hundreds a year on models, books, games, and trinkets as can be.

Now with that out of the way.....

CGI:

ROFL! Just ROFL!

I knew that portions of this series were going to be poorly done, virtually every series has it's crappy moments, but... wow! SERIOUS amounts of near total failure in every aspect of 3D/2D integration! From the crappy FX to phong shaded basic 'bad guy' models. It's just incredible poor. Macross Zero is ridiculously better in every aspect of of 3D/2D integration (sans the last episode which was pretty equal to this). M:F is sub-Strain level quality when Star Wars level like quality is to be expected, and sadly the quality will continue to degrade while the series airs. It's only real hope is that Kawamori can get Satelite to clean up the work for the disc release and then maybe he'll pull a Lucas and revamp the series in a few years.

The ONLY "oh-my-freaking-god!" awesome was that they had 1 or 2 of the 3D models textured well to nearly pass as regular 2D ships. *See attachment*

Character art: bland and forgettable.

Directing: flat and uncreative.

Story: badly rushed, heck SDF: Macross was spread over 2 episodes!

Action: MEGA amounts of SUPER ROBOT handwavium and video game button bashing declaring that Macross can no longer be consider REAL ROBOT. Better hope that NEO-Basara can pilot at Jesus+ levels.

Looks like the ONLY reason to watch this series, for myself, maybe the story and even then it's kinda clear that the character drama is going to be fairly questionable due to the cast being 95% cliche and unimaginative characters.

Preview IMO rating: C to a D+

[eugimon]

hey chrono,

What do you do in real life? You had some pretty good criticisms of the CG SDF as well and it seems that you have a better trained eye to CGI than most of us.

[F360]

SERIOUS amounts of near total failure in every aspect of 3D/2D integration!

Can you please post some of these pic for me, because my eyes are not that good anymore. I can maybe see 1 or 2 of bad integration but a near total failure in every one??

For a TV series budget, this is pretty damd good.

[Sergorn]

Can you please post some of these pic for me, because my eyes are not that good anymore. I can maybe see 1 or 2 of bad integration but a near total failure in every one??

For a TV series budget, this is pretty damd good.

And as much as I love Macross Zero, Macross Frontier's integration pretty much blows anything in Zero out of the water... (I watched some Zero yesterday, and as impressive as Zero already was ; Frontier is better in that respect - no doubt about that).

-Sergorn

[DJ Loe Kee]

Well I finally finished DL'ing and watching the HD raw. Now before I start I'll say that I'm as nearly as big a fan of macross as one that doesn't spend hundreds a year on models, books, games, and trinkets as can be.

Now with that out of the way.....

CGI:

ROFL! Just ROFL!

I knew that portions of this series were going to be poorly done, virtually every series has it's crappy moments, but... wow! SERIOUS amounts of near total failure in every aspect of 3D/2D integration! From the crappy FX to phong shaded basic 'bad guy' models. It's just incredible poor. Macross Zero is ridiculously better in every aspect of of 3D/2D integration (sans the last episode which was pretty equal to this). M:F is sub-Strain level quality when Star Wars level like quality is to be expected, and sadly the quality will continue to degrade while the series airs. It's only real hope is that Kawamori can get Satelite to clean up the work for the disc release and then maybe he'll pull a Lucas and revamp the series in a few years.

The ONLY "oh-my-freaking-god!" awesome was that they had 1 or 2 of the 3D models textured well to nearly pass as regular 2D ships. *See attachment*

Character art: bland and forgettable.

Directing: flat and uncreative.

Story: badly rushed, heck SDF: Macross was spread over 2 episodes!

Action: MEGA amounts of SUPER ROBOT handwavium and video game button bashing declaring that Macross can no longer be consider REAL ROBOT. Better hope that NEO-Basara can pilot at Jesus+ levels.

Looks like the ONLY reason to watch this series, for myself, maybe the story and even then it's kinda clear that the character drama is going to be fairly questionable due to the cast being 95% cliche and unimaginative characters.

Preview IMO rating: C to a D+

hey chrono,

What do you do in real life? You had some pretty good criticisms of the CG SDF as well and it seems that you have a better trained eye to CGI than most of us.

i'm wonderin' the same thing eugimon is wonderin'. i would give macros f 4 thumbs up for everything that you (chrono) complained about. but i'm a producer/dj and i'll call songs/music production "xiety/shiety/this suxs" that regular fans think are 4 thumbs up (i can get really picky when critiquin' music).

[Saotome]

I'm giving Macross Frontier 4 thumbs up (I forgot my job while watching).

[Valkyrie addict]

I'd really like to see that Battle 25 transform

[the white drew carey]

I was thinking that was supposed to be part of the San Francisco vibe.

Agreed, especially since one of the urban sections is "San Francisco", it only makes sense.

[Elektrix]

i'm wonderin' the same thing eugimon is wonderin'. i would give macros f 4 thumbs up for everything that you (chrono) complained about. but i'm a producer/dj and i'll call songs/music production "xiety/shiety/this suxs" that regular fans think are 4 thumbs up (i can get really picky when critiquin' music).

I think that's just one of those things - chrono's got his opinions about all aspects of the show - personally I don't agree with him, but I can't tell someone else that their opinions are wrong, because they're just that - opinions.

It doesn't specifically matter to me if someone else watches it and thinks it is as bad as chrono makes it out to be - personally I was quite impressed with the same things he says that Macross fails at. I don't think I'd really need a detailed explanation as to why he thinks they were failures.

[eugimon]

I just want to be clear here. I wasn't knocking chrono for his opinions, I just wanted to know where they were coming from.

[Elektrix]

I just want to be clear here. I wasn't knocking chrono for his opinions, I just wanted to know where they were coming from.

Yeah, sorry, didn't mean to imply you were knocking him for his opinions. I was more just making a general statement.