Macross 25th Anniversary TV Special thread *READ THE 1ST POST*

[s001]

Well, it seems like we already have the future love triangle very clear in the first episode: Ranka-Alto-Sheryl. It´s a little weird to me 'cause Ranka is too young, just like in M0, Mao is too young for a bizarre love triangle.

[mike_s_6]

Well, it seems like we already have the future love triangle very clear in the first episode: Ranka-Alto-Sheryl. It´s a little weird to me 'cause Ranka is too young, just like in M0, Mao is too young for a bizarre love triangle.

From this post: http://www.famitsu.com/anime/news/1212399_1558.html Translated by kresphy:

Alto, 16 years old

He was born in the lineage of Kabuki female role and has Pilot Genius, so he went against his father's wish and hopes to become a pilot.

Ranka, 15 years old

no new info

Sheryl, 17 years old

Cute appearance, on the contrary has high pride and bluntly chat with other people

They're not too far apart...

Edited December 30, 2007 by mike_s_6

[Beltane70]

How is Ranka too young to be involved in a love triangle with herself, Alto, and Sheryl? While Ranka at 15 is the youngest of the three, the other two are both only one (Alto, age 16) and two years (Sheryl, age 17) older than Ranka. All three of them are teenagers and are very close in age.

[the white drew carey]

Yeah, sorry, didn't mean to imply you were knocking him for his opinions. I was more just making a general statement.

I hate everyone's opinions...

...even my own.

[Sergorn]

How is Ranka too young to be involved in a love triangle with herself, Alto, and Sheryl? While Ranka at 15 is the youngest of the three, the other two are both only one (Alto, age 16) and two years (Sheryl, age 17) older than Ranka. All three of them are teenagers and are very close in age.

She's not too young, but admintingly by the way she looks you'd think she was more around 12 years old like Mao than 15.

-Sergorn

Edited December 30, 2007 by Sergorn

[lord_breetai]

She's not too young, but admintingly by the way she looks you'd think she was more around 12 years old like Mao than 15.

-Sergorn

To appeal to Loli-cons, most likely. Anyway if that's our love triangle, it'd be very interesting... in Macross, Macross II and Macross 7 the love triangle was a choice between a carer military person and a singer (Misa or Minmay, Silvie or Ishtar, Gamlin or Basara), in Macross Plus the love triangle was Myung the singer's choice between two pilots... here the pilot will get a choice of two singers; one of whom may be working with the military to some extent?

Anyway I just noticed according to Shinsen subs Sheyral mentions Jet-lag as well as fold sickness... now I don't know the Japanese word for Jet lag (never came up before, I'll have to look it up). But if she really has Jetlag, is that caused by the fact that different colonies have different "time zones"? Or is it due to time dilation caused by the fold, (which should be relativly minor but we do know from SDF it does happen)?

If it's the former, that's interesting. I wonder how the different colonies "set their clock", but either way it gives more of a feeling of each colony being a different country. Really it feels like Human kind is a lot more segregated then it was in Macross 7 (and not because of this).

Which makes me wonder the Protoculture test-weapon found on Earth in Macross Zero asked if 1) Humans had reached the stars and 2) if they were still warring with each other, before it went all crazy on everyone. If Humanity has grown vast and poweful enough that no longer facing the threat of extinction from the next big wave of Zentraedi to come along they are again at war with each other... it could be that our mysterious space aliens are there to elminate all warring parties.

But we have no evidence that humanity in general or the Frontier in specific was involved in any large scale armed conflict since the end of the Protodevelin war; it's just a thought.

Edited December 30, 2007 by lord_breetai

[Ali Sama]

my first crappy attempt at making a sms badge. I am redoing it. i figured out what I did wrong.

I wish my normal computer was working. I hate using gimp! i miss photoshop.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/ali...a/osmabadge.jpg

[kensei]

I don't think that's an error. The second transformation is markedly slower than the first and suggests the use of a "dramatic double take" designed to enhance the transformation effect dramatically. The double take also provides viewers with an opportunity to watch the transformation process at a slower pace than normal so they can appreciate the detail.

Macross Zero did this with the VF-0S too.

[Ali Sama]

Macross Zero did this with the VF-0S too.

as have other macross shows.

[eugimon]

as have other macross shows.

yeah, i think people got confused on that scene because the angle changed drastically and the 1st shot didn't make it real clear that the VF-25 was in gerwalk mode. So if you didn't catch that, then the scene reads as the vf-25 goes from fighter to battroid and then you see the scene again but now the vf-25 is in gerwalk and then to battroid.

[chrono]

I just want to be clear here. I wasn't knocking chrono for his opinions, I just wanted to know where they were coming from.

I don't take it as knocking at all!! And I knew right from the beginning that my 'IMO' wasn't going to be popular or agreed even on or at a marginal level.

As I said I saw the RAW and since I don't speak/understand Japanese beyond a few words I was less involved/distracted in/by the story/plot & music and only really had the visuals to be entertained by or focus on. So some of the things in the show simply "pop" on the screen as being not 2D. For example: in 3D shadows lines(ink out lines, etc) are solid through out a turn & in 2d they are normally broken. Another example is perfect focus, and yet another is perfect straight lines or curves. All of these make 3D models "pop" against 2D and that doesn't even cover textures or color matching. It's exactly like watching a foriegn B movie with lousy FX.

As for my experience... none professionally (i'd rather have my dominant hand cut off than work as a "technical artist"/slave), however I have been heavily involved with 3D for the last 10 years often browsing 3D boards help others, posting my own works, and talk to professionals on a daily basis (from DARPA, Industrial Design, through to Video Game & TV workers). So when it comes to 3D I'm far more versed in it than the "average joe" movie watcher.

The 3D quality is a direct result of money, continuing lacking talent pool, and time.

[eugimon]

cool, thanks for taking the time to answer Chrono.

I see what you're talking about in terms of 2D/3D intergration now. At first I thought you were talking about the synching of hand drawn animation and 3D objects together in the same scene so they were at a constant and consistent frame rate... and I thought/think that MF actually does a pretty good job at that.

But I understand now that you're talking about the actual visual look of those elements and in that I have to agree with what you're saying. On the other hand, I don't think the animators are even trying to mesh those two very much. It looks to me that they're taking a page out of the GiTS: SAC playbook and not even trying to make the CG stuff look like it's animated. I guess after watching 2 seasons of GiTS, I just don't mind the disparity between the hand drawn stuff and the CG.

[bsu legato]

Chrono doesn't like something? Stop the presses! This is completely unprecedented.

[wolfx]

Well....what's the best 3D/2D integration for you, chrono, out of curiosity? I thought Mac F although isn't WETA/Hollywood standards is still pretty decent for a TV series anime. And MacZero had alot more time for them to get the rendering right. Mac F probably learnt alot from the Aquarion production (as well as the doomed KISS DUM project) which felt like a testbed for their CG abilities.

And a high budget 2D film with 3D which I thought sucked a** was TITAN A.E. You could actually feel the scene lag when the blue energy aliens appeared.

[Zinjo]

Alto, 16 years old

Ranka, 15 years old

Sheryl, 17 years old

They're not too far apart...

No they aren't, remember Minmei was 15, Hikaru was 17 and Misa was 19 at the time of SDFM.

I believe Mao was 14 (or 15?) not 12. Sara was 18 and I believe Shin was 21 in Zero.

Girls are still encouraged to behave childlike in asian cultures, so Ranka's behavior may seem immature by Western standards, but not so much in asian cultures.

I don't take it as knocking at all!! And I knew right from the beginning that my 'IMO' wasn't going to be popular or agreed even on or at a marginal level.

Well the presentation was "provocative", not doubt by design.

However I saw the CGI as being a slave to the 2D animation in order for the two to work better together. The CGI was definitely closer to photorealistic in Zero, but then when the 2D was added it became painfully obvious and often affected the audience's immersion in the story. I suspect they took a page from Last Exile and tried to keep a balance between the two.

To compare this show to anything hollywood puts out is like comparing modern anime to Hanna Barbera cartoons... Apples and Oranges...

I find it an acceptable compromise for the sake of the story telling. After all, if all you have is flash and no substance all you have is...well... Micheal Bay's "Tranformers" or George Lucas' "Revenge of the Sith"....

[Beltane70]

Action: MEGA amounts of SUPER ROBOT handwavium and video game button bashing declaring that Macross can no longer be consider REAL ROBOT. Better hope that NEO-Basara can pilot at Jesus+ levels.

How is what we see in Macross Frontier anymore "handwavium" than the original Macross or any of the other Macross works? Once you go outside the realm of real science, or at least things that are at least scientifically possible and/or probable, everything becomes "handwavium".

I also fail to see how the action removes Frontier away from the real robot category and into the super robot category. It doesn't seem to fit into the super robot category from the defintion of super robot that I know.

[s001]

From this post: http://www.famitsu.com/anime/news/1212399_1558.html Translated by kresphy:

Alto, 16 years old

He was born in the lineage of Kabuki female role and has Pilot Genius, so he went against his father's wish and hopes to become a pilot.

Ranka, 15 years old

no new info

Sheryl, 17 years old

Cute appearance, on the contrary has high pride and bluntly chat with other people

They're not too far apart...

Wow, sorry, but in my defense, those character designs are pretty confusing.

[Beltane70]

I believe Mao was 14 (or 15?) not 12.

Actually, Mao was 11 according to her profile in the Macross Compendium.

http://macross.anime.net//characters/n/nome_mao/index.html

[Elektrix]

I don't take it as knocking at all!! And I knew right from the beginning that my 'IMO' wasn't going to be popular or agreed even on or at a marginal level.

As I said I saw the RAW and since I don't speak/understand Japanese beyond a few words I was less involved/distracted in/by the story/plot & music and only really had the visuals to be entertained by or focus on. So some of the things in the show simply "pop" on the screen as being not 2D. For example: in 3D shadows lines(ink out lines, etc) are solid through out a turn & in 2d they are normally broken. Another example is perfect focus, and yet another is perfect straight lines or curves. All of these make 3D models "pop" against 2D and that doesn't even cover textures or color matching. It's exactly like watching a foriegn B movie with lousy FX.

As for my experience... none professionally (i'd rather have my dominant hand cut off than work as a "technical artist"/slave), however I have been heavily involved with 3D for the last 10 years often browsing 3D boards help others, posting my own works, and talk to professionals on a daily basis (from DARPA, Industrial Design, through to Video Game & TV workers). So when it comes to 3D I'm far more versed in it than the "average joe" movie watcher.

The 3D quality is a direct result of money, continuing lacking talent pool, and time.

Gotcha. I'm probably the exact opposite of you actually - I've found that I'm impressed by CGI that many other people tell me is really pretty terrible - for example, I really like the CGI in the Dynamite 7 openings - I think generally speaking, I am impressed by CGI with a fair amount of detail in it, so I liked the CGI engine stuff in the Dynamite 7 openings - and in Macross F, I am frankly impressed just by the little details on the valks, etc.

-Elektrix

[Elektrix]

Well, it seems like we already have the future love triangle very clear in the first episode: Ranka-Alto-Sheryl. It´s a little weird to me 'cause Ranka is too young, just like in M0, Mao is too young for a bizarre love triangle.

Mylene was only like 14/15 in Macross 7 - seemingly she would have seemed to be too young for Basara or Gamlin (although the M7 love triangle is decidedly odd any way you slice it).

-Elektrix

[DJ Loe Kee]

I don't take it as knocking at all!! And I knew right from the beginning that my 'IMO' wasn't going to be popular or agreed even on or at a marginal level.

As I said I saw the RAW and since I don't speak/understand Japanese beyond a few words I was less involved/distracted in/by the story/plot & music and only really had the visuals to be entertained by or focus on. So some of the things in the show simply "pop" on the screen as being not 2D. For example: in 3D shadows lines(ink out lines, etc) are solid through out a turn & in 2d they are normally broken. Another example is perfect focus, and yet another is perfect straight lines or curves. All of these make 3D models "pop" against 2D and that doesn't even cover textures or color matching. It's exactly like watching a foriegn B movie with lousy FX.

As for my experience... none professionally (i'd rather have my dominant hand cut off than work as a "technical artist"/slave), however I have been heavily involved with 3D for the last 10 years often browsing 3D boards help others, posting my own works, and talk to professionals on a daily basis (from DARPA, Industrial Design, through to Video Game & TV workers). So when it comes to 3D I'm far more versed in it than the "average joe" movie watcher.

The 3D quality is a direct result of money, continuing lacking talent pool, and time.

i'm guessin' that you make your own 3d art from your "posting my own works" quote.

professional as in paid, then i'm along the same boat. i've never been paid for my creations and i'll still be makin' music even if i never make any money from it. i started for the art sake, not the money sake of it. i'm pretty much self taught except for a college piano class (and band class in middle class).

i feel you on the technical artist/slave part. i've been avoidin' goin' into music engineerin' and stay focused in the music creation aspect for some of the same reasons (like the reason that i can just pay somebody to master my stuff).

my ears are stronger than my eyes, i would have never caught the things that you caught. . plus, when i read subtitles, i miss alot of the graphical details but i still prefer subs over dubs (i try to catch the graphical details on my 2nd or 3rd watchin'). i couldn't watch a raw like you. the only raw i've seen is the korean movie "sex is zero" but me and my friends had my friend translate everything for us (we would scream for him to come back if he left the room for a quick second.)

[Graham]

I knew that portions of this series were going to be poorly done, virtually every series has it's crappy moments, but... wow! SERIOUS amounts of near total failure in every aspect of 3D/2D integration! From the crappy FX to phong shaded basic 'bad guy' models. It's just incredible poor. Macross Zero is ridiculously better in every aspect of of 3D/2D integration (sans the last episode which was pretty equal to this). M:F is sub-Strain level quality when Star Wars level like quality is to be expected, and sadly the quality will continue to degrade while the series airs. It's only real hope is that Kawamori can get Satelite to clean up the work for the disc release and then maybe he'll pull a Lucas and revamp the series in a few years.

Action: MEGA amounts of SUPER ROBOT handwavium and video game button bashing declaring that Macross can no longer be consider REAL ROBOT. Better hope that NEO-Basara can pilot at Jesus+ levels.

Preview IMO rating: C to a D+

I'm really surprised by your negative comments about the 3D/2D integration, when this is one aspect of the show that has been highly praised by nearly every member here so far. Granted I'm not in the animation field and I suspect neither are most of our members, but from a layman's view it was great. Some shows such as GITS SAC I have found the integration realy jarring though.

Likewise, I really don't get where you are coming from comparing the action scenes here with Super Robot anime? Common characteristics of Super Robot anime is that the mecha are nearly indestructable, super powerful and the pilots usually shout their attacks. So let's see how Macross Frontier stacks up to these criteria: -

• Nearly Indestructable: Well, we see the Ghosts, VF-171s and one of the VF-25s easily taken down by the bugs, so the mecha are far from indestructable.
• Super powerful: Again, nope. The Ghosts and VF-171s don't even manage to take out a single bug and the VF-25s only manage to take out a couple of Hammerhead bugs. The guns and missiles of the VFs seem mostly ineffective.
• Shouting Attacks: Nope, again doesn't happen here.

IMHO, the action in Macross Frontier has a very strong real robot vibe, with tense and exciting action scenes.

Graham

[Max is a Genius]

Chrono if you were such a 3D buff as you claim to be, you whould have never mentioned Lucas as standard in quality. Since Sw Ep2 his work, or ILM's if you prefere, really went down the shaft. One huge mistake among others, go look at the scene when Palpy talk to Yoda and Windu in his office with the big window showing Corussant... really really sloppy there buddy.

As for his fixing things in DVD edition, let's not talk SW shall we, I can talk for hours about how sloppy that was made.

The only visual issue with M:F is the color used for coloring the new idol hair, but other then that is fully in line with the current way of making anime. Quality wise, this serie goes well above average.

[mike_s_6]

No they aren't, remember Minmei was 15, Hikaru was 17 and Misa was 19 at the time of SDFM.

I believe Mao was 14 (or 15?) not 12. Sara was 18 and I believe Shin was 21 in Zero.

Girls are still encouraged to behave childlike in asian cultures, so Ranka's behavior may seem immature by Western standards, but not so much in asian cultures.

Well the presentation was "provocative", not doubt by design.

When you said "No they aren't", they aren't what? I wasn't referring to Minmei, Hikaru or Misa. I am referring to the Frontier cast. Or maybe you were supposed to quote someone else?

Wow, sorry, but in my defense, those character designs are pretty confusing.

That's pretty much understandable, just look at the height difference between Ranka and Alto, plus the way they act!

[Smiley424]

Just recently dled and watched episode 1 and I thoroughly enjoyed the show. Action was pretty cool, characters have potential. Loving the armored VF-25 (like the Stampede influence), hope to see the VF-171 start to hold its own as the shock of the new alien threat lessens and NUNS and SMS are able to refine and adapt. I am intrigued by these new mech-bug things, I hope they are some kind of different kind of alien instead of the typical humanoid types (space bugs, but each are individuals and not some kind of hive mind type thing). I like how the main baddie was Millia-esque being red colored and all. I hope that even if Alto and the Roy-esque character double team it, the red baddie escapes to fight another day.

All the easter eggs and nods to previous shows was a nice touch. I especially liked the closing sequence with Megumi Nakajima singing Ai Oboete Imasuka and then at the end when they slip in Mari Iijimi for the final line. I also like how they recapped the episode and had the pictures go Mikimoto style, nice touch.

[Keith]

Chrono, are you whathisname who used to hate DYRL for absolutely no reason but never actually watched it? Because you've got a seriously similar vibe!

As for the love triangle, do you guys really think it'll be Ranka Alto & Sheryl? Though she hasn't done much in the first episode, I still think Catherine is a more likely candidate than Sheryl, maybe it's the heavy Misa vibe, but she's just sooo Misa-ey!

[UN Spacy]

All the easter eggs and nods to previous shows was a nice touch. I especially liked the closing sequence with Megumi Nakajima singing Ai Oboete Imasuka and then at the end when they slip in Mari Iijimi for the final line. I also like how they recapped the episode and had the pictures go Mikimoto style, nice touch.

[Keith]

I forgot about Mari beng at last August's concert. Can't help but wonder if she'll pop up anywhere in this new series. Even if not as Minmay, since she's accepted her popularity in Macross for what it is, it'd be nice to see her cameo again.

Hell, she did the Milky Dolls songs in VFX, maybe she could turn up as a Minmay impersonator.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Keith

[kensei]

Chrono, are you whathisname who used to hate DYRL for absolutely no reason but never actually watched it? Because you've got a seriously similar vibe!

As for the love triangle, do you guys really think it'll be Ranka Alto & Sheryl? Though she hasn't done much in the first episode, I still think Catherine is a more likely candidate than Sheryl, maybe it's the heavy Misa vibe, but she's just sooo Misa-ey!

Pfft, the more girls the better! Stop thinking triangles and start thinking squares or maybe pentagons

[Zinjo]

When you said "No they aren't", they aren't what? I wasn't referring to Minmei, Hikaru or Misa. I am referring to the Frontier cast. Or maybe you were supposed to quote someone else?

I thought that might not sound right. I meant no "they aren't" in agreement, as in "no they aren't that far appart"....my bad...

[Zinjo]

I forgot about Mair beng at last August's concert. Can't help but wonder if she'll pop up anywhere in this new series. Even if not as Minmay, since she's accepted her popularity in Macross for what it is, it'd be nice to see her cameo again.

Hell, she did the Milky Dolls songs in VFX, maybe she could turn up as a Minmay impersonator.

Having Mari reprise her voice work in the new show would be cool, I suspect she'd be a lot more comfortable in her native tongue as opposed to English!

I love the idea of her popping up as a Minmei impersonator, that would be too funny...

[Sorata]

Just noticed something. In the beginning of the episode it says they are folding out into the Sagittarius Spiral Arm. If i remember correctly didnt UN Spacy have a base of colony that was called Elysium that was located in the Sagittarius Spiral Arm, cant recall where I saw that if it was mentioned in Macross Plus like Banipal and Hydra or one of the Macross games that fits in the official timeline like Cristriana in Macross M3.

Edited December 30, 2007 by Sorata

[mike_s_6]

I thought that might not sound right. I meant no "they aren't" in agreement, as in "no they aren't that far appart"....my bad...

Oh, I get it

As for the love triangle, my guess is it will be Alto and Sheryl in the end. The angsty one and the tactless one. They should make an interesting couple

[Saotome]

Sorry if it had been posted before but why Ozma is authorized to use the armored pack and the others of the SMS squad have to use the super packs only? Cannon fodder spirit?

[Radd]

I'd have to agree with Chrono to some extent on his opinions regarding the 3D animation and how well, or poorly, it meshes with the 2D. However, despite my misgivings of the use of 3D in general, I'd have to add to my own opinion that this is some of the best 2D/3D mixing I've seen in an animated series length production. Sure, it's lacking compared to Zero, and the CG in general could be called poor compared to ILM's CG work in the Star Wars movies...but those are hardly fair comparisons for reasons that ought to be obvious. I'd also have to agree with Zinjo's observation that they seem to be working towards a better balance in visual quality, rather than the highly detailed obvious CG of Zero (I wouldn't use the term "photorealistic", but it kinda sways more in that direction), the texture work and shading seems more in line with the 2D work in Frontier, which seems to at least try to look more like the 2D work it's combined with.

Some of my complaints would be more of the early fleet shots, where you had what appeared to be 2D renders of ships sliding across the screen in front of the 3D colony ships, and it looked utterly out of place, it reminded me a lot of some of the videogame movies in either VF-X2 or maybe M3 for Dreamcast. Thankfully there was less of that as the episode progressed.

Also, there's the issue with the disappearing/reappearing VF-171 arm panels that were pointed out a few pages back.

Also, I'm with Graham, I just do not see this "super robot" vibe, here. Even the VF-25's seemed only marginally effective against the aliens, despite their massive FAST packs (as I mentioned in another thread, I'm not really a fan of these Stampeed like augmentations). The gun pods don't seem to do any damage at all, and the missles only seem effective when they actually hit. And even then, the red thing seemed to shrug off a direct volley.