Macross 25th Anniversary TV Special thread *READ THE 1ST POST*

[Sketch]

I think you guys are reading way too much into the timescale shown in the intro; there is no way that Earth launched every single colony ship at the same time, and there is no way that Eden did the same, a mere one year after being colonized. A 'small' New-Macross colony displaces 7 billion tonnes, and the frontier (if we're using the battle section as a measuring stick) dwarfs the Macross 7; it simply isn't feasible that a dozen of these fleets were built in a year and launched simultaneously. Not only that, but in 2012, Earth's population was like 60,000ish; even with mass cloning, it would take time to populate those fleets.

The important bits are that Eden was colonized in 2013, which adheres to the established timeline; the movement of the fleets and their launch dates are clearly not in sync with the rolling year counter. Honestly I think they went an illustration that gets the message across in 12 seconds and looks cool rather than a detailed breakdown of the Macross colonization plan.

[Duke Togo]

Yes, but the Compendium shows Eden being discovered and colonized in 2013, the Megaroad-04 (shown as the ship that discovered it in 2013 in Macross F) didn't launch until 2014 at the earliest, if not 2015.

[azrael]

Speaking of the Compendium, where did Egan go?

Been trying to locate him for a while. Anime.net has rejected all e-mail due to spamming.

[Sketch]

Yes, but the Compendium shows Eden being discovered and colonized in 2013, the Megaroad-04 (shown as the ship that discovered it in 2013 in Macross F) didn't launch until 2014 at the earliest, if not 2015.

"An inhabitable planet is discovered 11.7 light years from the Solar System in the Groombridge 1816 Star System. It is named "Eden" and colonization begins."

Discovery might have been via Satellite imagery, or some other form of survey. For all we know the first steps of colonization may have been sending freighters full of building materials a year in advance of the colonists. Or it could have been a simple mistake, it's only a year off after all.

[Isamu test pilot]

I think I made a mistake in my last post, well, I think now I know how to use better the spoiler feature

Well I say it again OMFG Macross Frontier is really impresive and aweson, I can not wait for more

I am very surprised that the VF-171 is the common figther and the VF-25 is the figther for the elite pilots, the new "pilot suite" is really great

I love the animation and the mecha desing, the Ghost X-9 type fighter are really impresive and the enemy is really strong and very original, my only concern is why tanks, why not DESTROIDS, where are my DESTROIDS man

Music is OK, and I really enjoy when the 3 guys in the new poilots suites do the same moves with their hand that Isamu made in Macross Plus

Very very beautiful the ending theme Aioboeteimasuka

I want to ask, the Megaroad 01 lost comunications near the center of the galaxy, right? the Macross Frontier fleet is near the center of the galaxy too, right?

Edited December 24, 2007 by Isamu test pilot

[Guest sh002]

"i really thought you were a topless woman at first" haha favorite line

[Duke Togo]

"i really thought you were a topless woman at first" haha favorite line

I am telling you, he's Yellow!

[Black Valkyrie]

Not a word

[Zinjo]

Is this seriously a debate?

A reboot wouldn't have bothered with Eden. Again, DYRL was used just as strongly for flashback reference in Macross 7, and there's absolutely nothing to indicate that it's suddenly being abandoned in favor of some DYRL centric alternate universe. The chart just showed the spread of the colony fleets, not the timelines in which they launched. This is the same canon universe. The presence of the VF-171 & New Macross Class like city designs should more than make that clear. There also wouldn't be need to place the series furhter in the future (2059) otherwise.

Yes it is...

This isn't a total reboot as other series have done, rather a a reboot of the franchise prolly for international consumption.

The time space anomaly in 1995 allows SK and Co., to diverge the continuities, which in one sense settles a few conflicts between the recent shows and the past ones. The whole sequence in SDFM where the VF-1 was the first variable fighter is no longer in conflict with the the VF-0 or the Mayan Island events because Mac Zero can become part of the Mac F continuity while preserving the orginal SDFM story as it was.

If you look at the "historical sequence" frame by frame, as I have, it clearly shows nearly a dozen colony fleets leaving in 2012, going in different directions from the Earth and during the pan following Megaroad 4 Eden was colonized a year later.

In the shot over the Earth there appears to be a massive construction platform and at least 2 different types of "City" ships flying off into the distance, with escorts.

As stated we do not know how many of the events of the original continuity are transposed into this one or how many equipment designs have. It is prolly fair to say all, but the story of how they were developed would probably be different.

As for the dates, you may want to consider that it takes time to travel billions of miles in space, particularly if you "don't" have a specific destintation in mind and are searching star systems for habitable planets to settle on.

One thing is becoming clear, is that your theory about the space whales may be true, since the hammerhead mecha appears to use some sort of energy based "swimming" motion to propel itself in space.

You may wish to white knuckle your belief that this is still the original continuity but I suspect you may be disappointed, ultimately

[Duke Togo]

I do not think that sequence is meant to be taken as all of those ships leaving at the same time.

[Zinjo]

I like how they got rid of the "Milkyroad" from Mac 7 and replaced it physical connectors between the Pills or actually "Island" ships and the Frontier ship as well.

They appear to have changed how the ships are named in that the Battleship seems to be named the Macross and the City is given a different name. So the City ship in Mac F is composed of the Macross 25 battleship and the Frontier City ship.

It appears that the SMS is more of a civilian defense force as Sketchley and Graham have pointed out and are tasked with defending the civilian ships while the NUNS are in charge of defending the fleet as a whole. Clearly the SMS is manned by mercs of some sort who have substantially more experience than the NUNS pilots.

How the chain of command breaks down is another matter since the SMS can order the NUNS forces out of a combat zone?

[Dante74]

Looks like the launch arms haven't changed a bit in all those years, whatever timeline you're in.

[Zinjo]

I do not think that sequence is meant to be taken as all of those ships leaving at the same time.

Why not?

I've not seen too many animes that go into metaphorical historical imagry as well as giving a hard date and names to emigration fleets leaving a solar system. The dates began to change after the emigration fleets began to leave Eden, not the Earth...

[Radd]

Why not?

Because it's a dramatized and sped up sequence meant at least as much to look visually impressive as to convey a general idea of what occurred over the past 49 years, wrapped up in about half a minute's worth of footage.

[chrono]

I think you guys are reading way too much into the timescale shown in the intro; there is no way that Earth launched every single colony ship at the same time, and there is no way that Eden did the same, a mere one year after being colonized. A 'small' New-Macross colony displaces 7 billion tonnes, and the frontier (if we're using the battle section as a measuring stick) dwarfs the Macross 7; it simply isn't feasible that a dozen of these fleets were built in a year and launched simultaneously. Not only that, but in 2012, Earth's population was like 60,000ish; even with mass cloning, it would take time to populate those fleets.

Well that 60,000 number is not only highly questionable (the macross had 80k by herself), but it disregards the several million Zentraedi left over after the War. Now given how some Macross fleets were fully Zentraedi, that UN Spacy had the HUGE Factory satellite, and when M:F takes place we are now 2 full generations removed it's very feasible.

[Duke Togo]

Conclusion of Space [stellar] War I. Earth atmospheric purification operation begins. A total of several hundred thousand [to approximately one million] survivors confirmed in the Grand Cannons [i,] III and V, the Lunar surface's Apollo Base, and the space colony clusters [bunches].

So says the Compendium.

[The_WOZ]

Did anyone noticed the birth marks on Sheryl's left leg? (In the scene when entering the gravity zone)

[Duke Togo]

Yeah, I posted that a bit back, you first see the birthmark in the opening scene when she is in... stasis for the fold(?).

[Zinjo]

Let's recap,

~~~See below for full post~~~~~~

Edited December 24, 2007 by Zinjo

[jenius]

Now the producers, not wanting to abandon the original timeline, create a way in which a second timeline could exist to sidestep the international legal quagmire that SDFM has become. Thus by doing so potentially open a "new" door for Macross animes to be distributed internationally.

I don't really see the logic in your assumed motive. Rewriting the timeline will not have an effect on the legal quagmire. Hikaru and Roy make an appearance in the first episode. If they were looking to avoid international legal issues that was a horrible start.

Edited December 24, 2007 by jenius

[Radd]

Except a couple minor problems with this reasoning.

First, nothing has been shown that seriously shows any changes to the chronology. DYRL visuals have been used to recap history in previous Macross shows, and it's been pointed out that, and no offense, you're seriously reading far too much into a whole lot of nothing with a 5 second animation from a quick historical recap.

Second, these supposed changes do not in any way make Macross more marketable outside of Japan, How does nonsensically having dozens of colony missions featuring varying generations worth of technology all leaving Earth at one time make it easier to sell Macross outside of Japan? Or are you implying that by retconning DYRL over SDF:M makes it more marketable? If that's the case, you're forgetting that HG has claimed they own DYRL and its designs as well, and once again that DYRL visuals have been used in place of SDF:M visuals in recaps already in M7. On top of that, hasn't it been stated by Kawamori that the "true" story of SW1 is "somewhere inbetween SDF:M and DYRL"? I recall this being stated ages ago, long before Macross Zero or any "timespace disturbance" were around.

Seriously, the 1995 thing being either the date at which Macross and the real world timelines diverge, or some other plot element that has yet been revealed (The latter being less likely since it was introduced to the chronology when M0 was big news and there was no talk of a 25th anniversary series) are more plausible explanations at this point, unless something new is revealed.

[Panon]

Now we have a new series with a dramatically different history than the original chronology and yet some are desperate to conclude that it "must" be part of the original chronology because of similarities, dispite what has been shown and described in the new series...

To quote the Compendium, "The real Macross is out there, somewhere. If I tell the story in the length of a TV series, it looks one way, and if I tell it as a movie-length story, it's organized another way."

What you see in the colonization departure sequence is the story of the colony fleets as told in the length of NINE SECONDS. It's rather obviously tailored for dramatic effect and to look impressive.

[Zinjo]

Let's recap,

Earlier this year a retcon is officially listed that in 1995 a time space event takes place, then nothing....

Now we have a new series with a dramatically different history than the original chronology and yet some are desperate to conclude that it "must" be part of the original chronology because of similarities, dispite what has been shown and described in the new series...

From a purely business point of view, the original chronological franchise is essentially dead in the water internationally (where most of the additional profits come from for anime series these days). Now the producers, not wanting to abandon the original timeline, create a way in which a second timeline could exist to sidestep the international legal quagmire that SDFM has become. Thus by doing so, potentially open a "new" door for Macross animes to be distributed internationally.

From a business point of view it is a good plan that doesn't betray the original chronology and yet allows BigWest to profit from the franchise internationally.

Thus the Macross franchise has two legitimate chronologies that diverge just before the crashing of the A.S.S. on South Ataria Island.

One follows the story of humanity's encounter with the legacy of the PC through SDFM, M+ and M7. The other follows the story (possibly) through Mac Zero and Mac Frontier.

The universes are very similar and yet still quite different.

The history prior to 1995 still exists as it was devised, but after that year the stories take different paths.

In the MF universe the SA must have been wiped out by 1999 AD and the Meltran and Zentran clearly began fighting each other again (if DYRL is the basis for SW1). The resulting war destroys the Earth and mankind chooses to abandon their homeworld and colonize space where neither faction knows of their whereabouts. They design and build a several fleets and set off into space.

The emigration program continues, but not based from Earth rather from the first colony of Eden as displayed in the historical recap of Macross Frontier.

In the original chronology resources were split between rebuilding the Earth and the colony fleets, thus it took more time to build and populate those fleets. In the MF chronology it appears that all resources were put into "getting out of dodge" instead of rebuilding it...

~~~~~~~~~~~

HG can claim to own DYRL all they want, but if they actually did, then they'd have released the movie already and not felt the need to trademark the "Macross" name back in 2003, yet they did.

The retcon was revealed earlier this year not 2 years ago when Mac Zero was "big news". We speculated on what it meant back then and now it is possible we know why it was done. Personally, in light of what we've just seen, I suspect the aliens in the bio-mecha are responsible for the space/time "event" in some way.

Now some may desperately cling to the notion that it's the same universe and if it isn't my condolences, if it is then fine, I'm fine with either... However I won't slap blinders on and cover my ears yelling "lalalalala" if this is indeed a divergent chronology from SDFM...

Doh! The above post was incomplete and not covered by spoiler black...

Edited December 24, 2007 by Zinjo

[Elektrix]

really Awesome ! effects!

the only thing i don't like was those characters! I don't want school boy or school girls in macross......>_<...............

and why that school boy jump in a VF and operate it without training AGAIN? (i saw the same thing in M:Zero i think....)

Hikaru was barely out of school at least in Macross, and Minmei was pretty clearly a schoolgirl as well - either way, why can't characters who are still in school be in Macross?

Also, clearly Alto has some sort of training - it seems like the techniques used for those X-Gear exosuits are related to piloting Valkyries, and it seems safe to assume he must have trained on simulators/etc. (since he clearly states his dream is to fly real Valkyries, not the "toys", referring to the X Gears, which also I think emphasizes the idea that they must relate to training in them in some way).

It doesn't seem any more hard to believe than Hikaru's ability to pilot a Valkyrie given that his only previous experience was in acrobatic flying - I'd argue that Alto probably has more specific Valkyrie knowledge.

-Elektrix

[Elektrix]

Whoever said that Ranka seems a bit young is forgetting that Minmay was only 15 at the beginning of Macross. Misa and Hikaru weren't a whole lot older either.

And as for Sheryl being a b*tch, I remember a certain female bridge officer in Macross TV and DYRL being way more b*tchy in her introduction in comparison.

So really, it's par for par.

I see Sheryl as more of a Sharon Apple analogue, if anything, and certainly by those standards, she seems pretty tame on the b*tchiness scale.

[Elektrix]

This is entirely different, Sheryl comes off as a total prima donna.

Why is it shocking or surprising that a galactic pop idol comes across as a prima donna? Wouldn't it be more shocking if she didn't?

[Panon]

Let's recap,

Let's recap what, your long list of incredibly flimsy assumptions?

Let's not.

[badboy00z]

That is one badass first episode. I thought the Isamu hand gesture homage was cool.

[Tobi54]

WOW, just amazing, production values are way up there, looks incredible. Man this first few months are going to feel like an eternity.

[jenius]

Let's recap what, your long list of incredibly flimsy assumptions?

Let's not.

Seconded.

[Zinjo]

Let's recap what, your long list of incredibly flimsy assumptions?

Let's not.

Excuse me?

There are some speculations based on "actual" physical evidence.

Defend your comments or don't bother posting...

[Zinjo]

Seconded.

I'll keep the crying towels handy for ya...

Edited December 24, 2007 by Zinjo

[Elektrix]

I hope these aren't dumb questions, but I don't think I've seen it mentioned on the Macross F info page or any of the stuff I've read so far:

1) Is there any word on episode count? 26 episodes? 48? 50?

2) Is there a specific air date for the premiere next year? I've seen people mention varying dates.

[Graham]

WTB Egan Loo, PST.

Eh, you want to buy Egan Loo?

Who's selling him & how much?

Graham

[Graham]

I hope these aren't dumb questions, but I don't think I've seen it mentioned on the Macross F info page or any of the stuff I've read so far:

1) Is there any word on episode count? 26 episodes? 48? 50?

2) Is there a specific air date for the premiere next year? I've seen people mention varying dates.

1) While not confirmed., my usually reliable sources told me 26.

2) April 2008.

Graham