U.N. Spacy Earth Defense Grid

[Yamato Lover]

When Sharon Apple detects Isamu's YF-19 enter the U.N. Spacy's Defense Grid perimeter, she brings the whole damned thing online at once. This was illustrated by a schematic of the planet suddenly blossoming with electronic "paint" and threat-assessment grids...almost to the point of overkill.

And from the sheer amount of defense fire Isamu dodged from satellites and orbiting warships on his way into Earth's atmosphere, it seems that our homeworld...although nearly uninhabited, aside from in and around Macross City...is the most well-protected hunk of rock in the galaxy.

If the U.N. Spacy launched such a massive colonization program to populate non-irradiated planets (which I'm sure a good portion of Earth still is by 2040), why would it bother placing such an aggressive defense grid around Earth, if the human race is out looking for "greener pastures"?

Ben

Edited October 22, 2003 by Yamato Lover

[Hurricane29]

Because its Earth, evnen though it was damaged, people still want to live on it. The homeworld is important, coloines are good but they need a central hub. Earth was that hub. And besides, the Grid allowed Isamu to blow stuff up, and pull off some crazy stunts while flying. B)

[Mr March]

That's the thing I think a lot of Macross fans seem to misinterpret. The Earth is not vacant. Looking at Flashback 2012 and Macross Plus, it's clear that while there was massive colonization in other star systems, Earth is in one of the most heavily populated systems in the UN Spacy. Macross City was enormous, a much larger city than anything else we've seen elsewhere. Also, the Sol system is still the holding point for the majority of the UN Spacy's war materiel. There's the shipyards they have, the Zentradi Factory Satellite, and the bulk of their forces. WHy not protect it.

Also, given the past vulnerability of Earth against huge fleets of hostile aliens, is it really any wonder the UN Spacy went overkill on Earth's planetary defense plans?

[yellowlightman]

Not to mention the fact that the UN Spacy bigwigs are still on Earth, right? They're probably trying to look out for their own hides.

[Graham]

Consider that the damage inflicted on the Earth by the Zentraedi during Space War 1 was by orbital bombardment by conventional weapons only, i.e. beam weapons and also probably conventional missiles. The Zentradi did not posses (nuclear) reaction weaponary. Thus any damage sustained by the Earth was relatively temporary in nature. There should have been no long lasting radioactive contamination

I think by the time of Macross Plus (2040), most of the Earth would again be suitable for repopulation and agriculture, either by through natural regrowth and recovery or with the aid of teraforming.

Graham

[JB0]

Seeing beam weaponry filed as "conventional weapons" is odd, to say the least.

[Knight26]

The Defense grid make a lot of sense. The reason we see so much desert area is becuase the attack by the Zentraedi probably ripped away multiple layers of topsoil, leaving most of the planet desert. We see evidence that the rainforests grew back in record time. Infact areas around crashed zentraedi ships and mecha are shown to have recovered first, possibly due to radiation or the techno-organic nature of the zentran ships. The reason most area is still desert though is that it takes generations for topsoil to replenish itself. UN Spacy is probably trying to slowly reforest the planet, rebuilding the topsoil, but its a slow process. So, if you are trying to save a near death planet, of course you will protect it with dang near everything you've got, espcially while it is on the brink of returning to life. Well that's my too cents. And yes particle and beam weapons are really convetional weapons in that they do not use a nuclear detonation as their primary reaction. Though nuclear reactions may occur at the impact sight, so low level readiation is also a likely hazard in some areas.

[Wabbit]

Even if the Zentradi used conventional weapons, haven't they also damaged or destroy any surface buildings like chemical factories, nuclear power plants and other hazardous places that would intoxicate the enviroment so that it is unsuitable to live in? Don't underestimate the effects of a nuclear power plant going BOOM!

On-topic: if I was a leader of the U.N. Government, I would defend my homeworld, my capital, my large automated space ship factory with an overload of weapons and defenses. Having experienced Space War 1 facing 4 million space ships, who knows if the next time an enemy would throw in 8 million ships?

Hmm, after the Sharon Apple incident, I would add even more defenses; two of our own pilots slipped past the grid. That is intolerable!

[JB0]

And yes particle and beam weapons are really convetional weapons in that they do not use a nuclear detonation as their primary reaction.

I understood the meaning.

It just sounds odd.

[Skull Leader]

I don't think the population of earth was reduced to such a level that it couldn't have repopulated itself naturally, there was just a need to QUICKLY propagate the species and spread them out.

Earth is still "home plate", and as a viable and populated planet, the UN had every need to protect it, hence, they spared no expense.

[Uxi]

Even if the Zentradi used conventional weapons, haven't they also damaged or destroy any surface buildings like chemical factories, nuclear power plants and other hazardous places that would intoxicate the enviroment so that it is unsuitable to live in? Don't underestimate the effects of a nuclear power plant going BOOM!

Not enough to make a difference. It's pathetic how few nuclear reactors there are, considering how much better it is on fuel. Because a bunch of whiny biatches... well i'll rant on that later. Besides, US and European plants aren't built like Chernobyl. They don't go boom. They brake and become useless but not like u shoot it and it blows up like an H-bomb. Might be some waste, radiation, etc but it's not gonna look like even Hiroshima.

But even with all the fuel refineries, etc... the Earth is BIG (and besides, Zentran beam weapons would likely ignite it anyway) and we're a small small footprint on it.

Don't sweat Isamu and Guld getting in. They were protected by the script.

[JB0]

Besides, US and European plants aren't built like Chernobyl. They don't go boom. They brake and become useless but not like u shoot it and it blows up like an H-bomb. Might be some waste, radiation, etc but it's not gonna look like even Hiroshima.

Chernobyl didn't go boom either.

The reaction didn't go critical. The fuel rods are too far apart for that. It just got hot enough to melt the reactor open.

They still operate the other reactors at the site to this day.

Don't sweat Isamu and Guld getting in.  They were protected by the script.

They also had inside knowledge that most attackers wouldn't have.

[Druna Skass]

How much of the UN Spacy's total force is assigned to the Earth defence fleet.

[MAXXxxx]

Not enough to make a difference. It's pathetic how few nuclear reactors there are, considering how much better it is on fuel. Because a bunch of whiny biatches... well i'll rant on that later.

The only real problem is what to do with the remaining 'fuel' they stay and pollute for a few thousand years.

Besides, US and European plants aren't built like Chernobyl. They don't go boom.

Actually they are They are not THAT different from the russian designs. + see next part.

They brake and become useless but not like u shoot it and it blows up like an H-bomb. Might be some waste, radiation, etc but it's not gonna look like even Hiroshima.

yep, but no reactor will go boom like Hiroshima.

[The Shade]

Hmm, after the Sharon Apple incident, I would add even more defenses; two of our own pilots slipped past the grid. That is intolerable!

The system seems reminiscent of the Death Star. "It's defences are designed around a direct large scale assault. A small, one man fighter, should be able to penetrate the outer defence."

[Duke Togo]

http://macross.anime.net/macross/story/chr...2010/index.html

Mass cloning of people as well as animals and plants through the use of Protoculture technology begins.

Start of nature reclaimation project. Earth ecosystem rehabilitation begins

[Effect]

That had to be strange. Were the clones produced full size adults or where they infant size? Had to be strange if not a little distrubing either way. You go in to be cloned, while you are waiting for yourday to board a colony ship you run into several of your clones cause you all had the need to eat at certain food place. Or if the clones don't have any memory and are seperated you might chance upon a family memeber and not even know about it. Even worse if the two develop feelings for each other. Though I'm sure family information would be supplied to stop this type of thing from happening, I hope.

Edited October 23, 2003 by Effect

[Uxi]

The only real problem is what to do with the remaining 'fuel' they stay and pollute for a few thousand years.

Shoot that shiyat into the sun or out into deep space or sumthin. Just hope the thing carrying dont blow up/crash.

Mass cloning? Eww. :Shudder:

[Duke Togo]

That had to be strange. Were the clones produced full size adults or where they infant size? Had to be strange if not a little distrubing either way. You go in to be cloned, while you are waiting for yourday to board a colony ship you run into several of your clones cause you all had the need to eat at certain food place. Or if the clones don't have any memory and are seperated you might chance upon a family memeber and not even know about it. Even worse if the two develop feelings for each other. Though I'm sure family information would be supplied to stop this type of thing from happening, I hope.

Here's more...

http://macross.anime.net/macross/story/chr...2013/index.html

Because of the increase in hereditary children's diseases due to the overuse of cloning, mass cloning is terminated.

[tetsujin]

Hmm, after the Sharon Apple incident, I would add even more defenses; two of our own pilots slipped past the grid. That is intolerable!

Well, consider the grid is there to stop battleships from parking in orbit and bombarding the surface. Small fighters and combat units like the Nousjadeul Ger or Glaug can do relatively little damage to anything if they break through the defense grid and enter Earth's atmosphere. In an invasion the role of those small units would be to attack the defense grid so the big ships could move in - and UN Spacy's fighters would be responsible for intercepting them. At any rate, it'd take quite a lot of resources for an invading fleet to take out enough of the grid that they could assault the planet. Meanwhile, UN Spacy forces would be mobilizing to support the earth forces.

The small units wouldn't be able to do enough damage on their own, and would most likely be overwhelmed by the large number of fighters stationed on Earth.

Still, I'm sure the UN Spacy folks would always be doing their best to fortify the defense grid as well as they could - although it's just one piece of the overall defense system, it's one of the cheapest ways to get effective firepower into orbit for use in those times when they don't need much intelligence controlling the guns. I doubt it's something they'd be inclined to use unless a major offensive was being directed toward the Earth.

[Godzilla]

Hmm, after the Sharon Apple incident, I would add even more defenses; two of our own pilots slipped past the grid. That is intolerable!

I agree. Someone would lose their job if I was a UN Spacy official.

[Wabbit]

Even if the Zentradi used conventional weapons, haven't they also damaged or destroy any surface buildings like chemical factories, nuclear power plants and other hazardous places that would intoxicate the enviroment so that it is unsuitable to live in? Don't underestimate the effects of a nuclear power plant going BOOM!

Besides, US and European plants aren't built like Chernobyl. They don't go boom. They brake and become useless but not like u shoot it and it blows up like an H-bomb. Might be some waste, radiation, etc but it's not gonna look like even Hiroshima.

Don't sweat Isamu and Guld getting in. They were protected by the script.

Well, not quite. For instance, much of the older European nuclear powerplants are pretty similar in design as the Russian plants. France has the most nuclear plants in Europe and that destroyed, it would irradiate the whole of that continent.

This summer, which was one of the hottest in recent history, one of the French plants was being kept cool by additional surface water to prevent the first stages of a possible meltdown.

I'll fire the writer of the script! Unless it is the Hoary Froating Head himself...

[Lightning]

I remember watching DYRL when Misa and Hikaru was stuck on Earth (post acoplyptic bombardment) he mentioned to misa that the Radiation had finally dropped so the fish were actually safe to eat.

this strikes me as the fact that maybe someone had a nuke accident on earth and the bombardment took care of all of the radiation that it might've produced.

[Wabbit]

I remember watching DYRL when Misa and Hikaru was stuck on Earth (post acoplyptic bombardment) he mentioned to misa that the Radiation had finally dropped so the fish were actually safe to eat.

this strikes me as the fact that maybe someone had a nuke accident on earth and the bombardment took care of all of the radiation that it might've produced.

Maybe Hikaru has added something to nullify the radiation from the fish he caught/picked up during preperation..? The same 'medicine' that they (off the movie) had took when they realised they were on the destroyed Earth?

[Radd]

Hmm, after the Sharon Apple incident, I would add even more defenses; two of our own pilots slipped past the grid. That is intolerable!

I agree. Someone would lose their job if I was a UN Spacy official.

It's already been said, but I'll say it again and elaborate. The defense grid is like the Death Star. No cap ships are gonna get through, but a small group of fighters could slip by. Also, remember how Isamu and Guld got through. The defense grid was on automatic, as all of the people were basically zombies. Plus, using the debris from the upper satellites and turning off their fighters' power, they slipped through with the rest of the debris, and even then it was luck (or maybe Sharon's influence) that saw them through.

[Uxi]

Without knowing exactly how the beam weaponry operates its difficult to make definitive conclusions on what residual side effects there could be...

Yeah good point about the reactors... guess Europe is behind the US more than I figured. Especially the snail eating froggies. I still doubt it would irradiate the entire continent.

But anyways, I really think the mass cloning bit needs to go into the DYRL/Macross II bin of "movie in a movie" or Alternate Universe. It's just nonsensical and the implications are enormous. Better to just say the bombardment and related casualties just wasn't that bad. Sure the major centers could have been wiped out but not in the manner indicated... something like how Robotech had it (perish the thought!). :cool:

Edited October 24, 2003 by Uxi

[Nied]

Something to consider about radiation. Power plants of any kind are juicy infastructure targets and would likely be at the top of any Zentradi target list. So it's quite likely that most of the worlds nuclear reactors were vaporized early on. considering the amount of radioactive material that would be atomised (most of which would go airborne) turining any nuclear reactors into the biggest "dirty bombs" in history. I'd imagine that most of the northern hemisphere would be rendered largely uninhabitable (I'd have to take a look at the jet-stream but I beilieve that Alaska would be spared).

[JB0]

That had to be strange. Were the clones produced full size adults or where they infant size? Had to be strange if not a little distrubing either way. You go in to be cloned, while you are waiting for yourday to board a colony ship you run into several of your clones cause you all had the need to eat at certain food place.

I get the impression it's supposed to be realistic cloning, not traditional sci-fi cloning.

Born a baby, no memories.

But anyways, I really think the mass cloning bit needs to go into the DYRL/Macross II bin of "movie in a movie" or Alternate Universe.  It's just nonsensical and the implications are enormous. 

Hey, you got a better way to rebuild a species in a hurry?

It makes perfect sense.

Better to just say the bombardment and related casualties just wasn't that bad.  Sure the major centers could have been wiped out but not in the manner indicated...  something like how Robotech had it (perish the thought!). :cool:

And that DOES make sense? There were so many zentradi ships you couldn't see through the cloud.

I'm suprised they weren't shooting EACH OTHER while bombarding the planet. The odds of any signifigant population of humans surviving were pretty slim.

According to Macross Compendium, the survivors were either off-planet or in well-fortified areas(namely the incomplete Grand Cannons). Which makes sense given the scale of the bombardment.

Edited October 24, 2003 by JB0

[myk]

If two renegade fighters were able to break through the orbital defense network by just playing dead, I wouldn't think of the Earth as being very well protected; rather, the opposite. Of course, one could argue that the theme of defense for the Earth is that of repelling massed enemies, such as squadrons of mecha, fleets of ships, etc.

Edited October 24, 2003 by myk

[Mr March]

If two renegade fighters were able to break through the orbital defense network by just playing dead, I wouldn't think of the Earth as being very well protected; rather, the opposite. Of course, one could argue that the theme of defense for the Earth is that of repelling massed enemies, such as squadrons of mecha, fleets of ships, etc.

Well, the YF-19 and YF-21 did utilize new active stealth systems. Yang stated their chances of going undetected. The grid didn't seem to notice them until they were already past the grid itself.

[Uxi]

But anyways, I really think the mass cloning bit needs to go into the DYRL/Macross II bin of "movie in a movie" or Alternate Universe.  It's just nonsensical and the implications are enormous. 

Hey, you got a better way to rebuild a species in a hurry?

It makes perfect sense.

Better to just say the bombardment and related casualties just wasn't that bad.  Sure the major centers could have been wiped out but not in the manner indicated...  something like how Robotech had it (perish the thought!). :cool:

And that DOES make sense? There were so many zentradi ships you couldn't see through the cloud.

I'm suprised they weren't shooting EACH OTHER while bombarding the planet. The odds of any signifigant population of humans surviving were pretty slim.

I know what the Compendium says... I don't think you're realizing how BIG the Earth actually is. The major population centers would surely be annihilated. But there's no reason for the Zentraedi to hit hardly anything in the middle of North Dakota or Siberia or North Korea, or the island of Maya, for example. Maybe the most major towns but outside of them? And sure we're talking about wiping out the majority of our population but EVERYTHING outside of the Grand Cannons? Nonsensical.

If they were trying to exterminate, then biological weapons and/or the complete eradication of the surface is necessary (top kilometer), including oceans and all the uncounted little islands out there (Maya anyone?).

[Wabbit]

But anyways, I really think the mass cloning bit needs to go into the DYRL/Macross II bin of "movie in a movie" or Alternate Universe.  It's just nonsensical and the implications are enormous. 

Hey, you got a better way to rebuild a species in a hurry?

It makes perfect sense.

Better to just say the bombardment and related casualties just wasn't that bad.  Sure the major centers could have been wiped out but not in the manner indicated...  something like how Robotech had it (perish the thought!). :cool:

And that DOES make sense? There were so many zentradi ships you couldn't see through the cloud.

I'm suprised they weren't shooting EACH OTHER while bombarding the planet. The odds of any signifigant population of humans surviving were pretty slim.

I know what the Compendium says... I don't think you're realizing how BIG the Earth actually is. The major population centers would surely be annihilated. But there's no reason for the Zentraedi to hit hardly anything in the middle of North Dakota or Siberia or North Korea, or the island of Maya, for example. Maybe the most major towns but outside of them? And sure we're talking about wiping out the majority of our population but EVERYTHING outside of the Grand Cannons? Nonsensical.

If they were trying to exterminate, then biological weapons and/or the complete eradication of the surface is necessary (top kilometer), including oceans and all the uncounted little islands out there (Maya anyone?).

But over FOUR million gigantic ships... Name four million cities, towns, villages plus collateral damage and humanity is near annihilated... The Grand Cannon did destroy a lot of them, but I doubt that it had took out more than 5% of all the nme ships.

[JB0]

But anyways, I really think the mass cloning bit needs to go into the DYRL/Macross II bin of "movie in a movie" or Alternate Universe.  It's just nonsensical and the implications are enormous. 

Hey, you got a better way to rebuild a species in a hurry?

It makes perfect sense.

Better to just say the bombardment and related casualties just wasn't that bad.  Sure the major centers could have been wiped out but not in the manner indicated...  something like how Robotech had it (perish the thought!). :cool:

And that DOES make sense? There were so many zentradi ships you couldn't see through the cloud.

I'm suprised they weren't shooting EACH OTHER while bombarding the planet. The odds of any signifigant population of humans surviving were pretty slim.

I know what the Compendium says... I don't think you're realizing how BIG the Earth actually is. The major population centers would surely be annihilated. But there's no reason for the Zentraedi to hit hardly anything in the middle of North Dakota or Siberia or North Korea, or the island of Maya, for example. Maybe the most major towns but outside of them? And sure we're talking about wiping out the majority of our population but EVERYTHING outside of the Grand Cannons? Nonsensical.

If they were trying to exterminate, then biological weapons and/or the complete eradication of the surface is necessary (top kilometer), including oceans and all the uncounted little islands out there (Maya anyone?).

But over FOUR million gigantic ships... Name four million cities, towns, villages plus collateral damage and humanity is near annihilated... The Grand Cannon did destroy a lot of them, but I doubt that it had took out more than 5% of all the nme ships.

Bingo.

They'd already SHOWN that a Zentradi fleet was capable of sterilizing a planet, reducing an Earth-type planet to something more along the lines of the moon.

Sure some stuff lived, mainly in caves and the ocean, but most of the planet was reduced to a lunar landscape.

Remember, what you see around the Grand Cannon after Hikaru rescues Misa is Middle-of-nowhere, Alaska. That used to be a nice thick blanket of snow before the attack, instead of a lunar landscape. And Alaska isn't very densely populated. It wouldn't have been a prime target(the Grand Cannon being undetected untill it fired).

[Max Jenius]

But over FOUR million gigantic ships... Name four million cities, towns, villages plus collateral damage and humanity is near annihilated... The Grand Cannon did destroy a lot of them, but I doubt that it had took out more than 5% of all the nme ships.

WOO! ALASKA!!

Well, if my planet and its population were nearly wiped out I'd be hella paranoid. I'd probably have even MORE defenses.

a) We're paranoid against a large scale capital ship attack(in case another Zent fleet comes around.. or anything else)

b) The defenses are probably meant to be used in conjunction with Valkyrie squadrons and ARMD platforms etc... but all the pilots were being hypnotized by Sharon.

c) As mentioned before, the YF-19 and 21 both have the new active stealth systems, so even if they were detected... they'd be much harder to hit.

d) Isamu and Guld are the best of the best. I'll bet Max could get in there with a VF-1.

[Nied]

But anyways, I really think the mass cloning bit needs to go into the DYRL/Macross II bin of "movie in a movie" or Alternate Universe.  It's just nonsensical and the implications are enormous. 

Hey, you got a better way to rebuild a species in a hurry?

It makes perfect sense.

Better to just say the bombardment and related casualties just wasn't that bad.  Sure the major centers could have been wiped out but not in the manner indicated...  something like how Robotech had it (perish the thought!). :cool:

And that DOES make sense? There were so many zentradi ships you couldn't see through the cloud.

I'm suprised they weren't shooting EACH OTHER while bombarding the planet. The odds of any signifigant population of humans surviving were pretty slim.

I know what the Compendium says... I don't think you're realizing how BIG the Earth actually is. The major population centers would surely be annihilated. But there's no reason for the Zentraedi to hit hardly anything in the middle of North Dakota or Siberia or North Korea, or the island of Maya, for example. Maybe the most major towns but outside of them? And sure we're talking about wiping out the majority of our population but EVERYTHING outside of the Grand Cannons? Nonsensical.

If they were trying to exterminate, then biological weapons and/or the complete eradication of the surface is necessary (top kilometer), including oceans and all the uncounted little islands out there (Maya anyone?).

But over FOUR million gigantic ships... Name four million cities, towns, villages plus collateral damage and humanity is near annihilated... The Grand Cannon did destroy a lot of them, but I doubt that it had took out more than 5% of all the nme ships.

Bingo.

They'd already SHOWN that a Zentradi fleet was capable of sterilizing a planet, reducing an Earth-type planet to something more along the lines of the moon.

Sure some stuff lived, mainly in caves and the ocean, but most of the planet was reduced to a lunar landscape.

Remember, what you see around the Grand Cannon after Hikaru rescues Misa is Middle-of-nowhere, Alaska. That used to be a nice thick blanket of snow before the attack, instead of a lunar landscape. And Alaska isn't very densely populated. It wouldn't have been a prime target(the Grand Cannon being undetected untill it fired).

You're forgetting something. We do see a real statistic on how much of the surface got destroyed on Admiral Hayase's status screen in the Grand cannon. There are large areas that were in fact spared from destruction. As you can see much of the American breadbasket was spared (very good for reconstruction), as is much of eastern South America (most likely where Quamzim's found his gunboat), Eurasia has gotten pretty pasted though parts of Spain and Italy seem to have faired well, Central Africa seems OK, and almost half of Australia survived. Now given that this shot was taken right after the intial salvo, I don't think that much more damage was done. Remember right after this shot, they fire the Grand Cannon, and right after that the Macross and Vrlitwhai begin their counter attack, so most of the bombardment ships become otherwise occupied.