The Hobbit

[1st Border Red Devil]

Not sure if I I should say that I disliked The Desolation of Smaug. There were interesting aspects and then there were "OMFG, why did you DO that?" I'll say that its certainly better than the egregious treatment of The Two Towers and The Return of the King, but not better than The Fellowship of the Ring for sticking to the source material. The Elf love interest bothered me less than other aspects, even if I look at Tauriel and see a throwaway character. I think my biggest problem is still the CGI Orcs were awful in comparison to the actors w/prosthetics from The Lord of the Rings trilogy. That and Azog died at Nanduhirion/Azanulbizar (got beheaded by Dain Ironfoot), while it was his son Bolg that lead the Orcs of the Misty Mountains at this time......

Edited December 24, 2013 by 1st Border Red Devil

[azrael]

Perhaps the Elf-romance subplot is to give Kili's death a little more depth in the next film. Oh sorry, Spoilers.

Dain II Ironfoot is portrayed by Billy Connolly in the next film. He could still kill Azog.

[TheLoneWolf]

My money's on Thorin killing Azog, who is then mortally wounded by Bolg. Then Bolg in turn is killed by Dain II.

Considering how much Peter Jackson changed the story, I wondered if Kili might actually survive the Battle of the Five Armies. But after watching the Desolation of Smaug, I think Kili is going to sacrifice himself to save Tauriel, thus changing Legolas' apparent disdain for dwarves.

Anyways, having read the books, I still found the movie very enjoyable. Moreso than An Unexpected Journey. I just don't look at it as "The Hobbit" at all; rather, I view it as "LOTR: Episode 0."

[Vile]

I just wish someone would go ahead and make a live action version of the story.

[Gakken85]

Just saw this today. The theater was actually packed.

Anyway.

1. Not enough of Bilbo for me. The actor really kills it and they really didn't use him enough. I loved how he wanted to get crap done after all the crying and whining from LOTRs.

2. The Orcs were awesome.

3. Legolas looked bigger and more badass than he does in LOTRs, which was weird. He seemed a little OP too. Or rolled too many crits.

4. The love triangle was pretty well done, regardless if it was completely fabricated. It didn't annoy me but I wish they'd put more depth into Bilbo and Dwaves quest instead of making a love triangle to throw a bone to females.

5. Loved the Boffin going nuts in the barrel armor.

6. Smaug was fantastic.

7. It ran a little long, even for me... maybe it was just because the theater was packed and I was getting hot and annoyed.

I look forward to a second viewing at home and it was a great film.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Gakken85

[Duke Togo]

I heard bad things about the second movie from some friends, and was planning to wait to pick it up from Netflix. But now I think I may go see it after all.

[Gakken85]

Idk why a fan of the books or the other movies wouldn't like it. Just runs a little long is all.

[taksraven]

I was one of the few who enjoyed the large amount of character development in the last film, so I was disappointed that there wasn't nearly as much in this film. Still enjoyed it though. Killer ending for a movie. (I bet some execs weren't happy with it ending the way it did).

[Gakken85]

I don't get why people were upset at a cliff hanger. You know coming into it that it's a broken up part of a series. Are people that coddled that they have to have a neat ending not to freak out? haha.

I was just glad to leave the theater

[the white drew carey]

Just saw Desolation. Man, did that suck.

I'm not going to spoiler tag this stuff below because if you've gotten this far in the thread, you've heard enough.

Jackson was applauded for fitting LotR into three (very long) films. But I still don't get why the heck he felt the need to turn The Hobbit into a three (over-long) films. Even adding in the stuff from the appendices would only justify two.

Instead we get a retread of a dwarf infatuated with an elf, characters who are different than they are in the book, and needless action scenes (I almost walked out when Thorin was running under Smaug with the wheelbarrow).

Plus, there are tons of wild inconsistencies regarding the crap that Jackson added in, especially regarding the stuff in Laketown.

Hey, these Laketown people are happy to see the dwarves, and provided us with weapons and supplies to assist us in our quest! Uh-oh, Kili is sick. Knock knock. 'Bard! You're the only one who can help!!! Not any of the other people who are actually happy to see us!'

Bard spends hours in his house with sick Kili and the other two dwarves. HE IS AT HOME. Yet the moment he leaves, the guards are like 'Hey Bard, we've been looking for you!' Needless chase scene.

30 orcs attack Bard's house in Laketown. No one notices a bunch of clumsy orcs running along their rooftops. Tauriel and Legolas have a fight with them and Legolas continues the fight for a decent amount of time through Laketown, yet no one raises a cry and no guards show up.

Ugh...

[peter]

I went and watched it, found it shorter than I expected. Was craving for more when it ended.....crappy thing to wait a year to see the rest.

[derex3592]

totally not sitting through this in the theater. Will wait for VUDU or Redbox, whichever comes first. Although I must say, as a huge fan of the LOTR trilogy (extended editions to boot) it does seem like he is adding a lot of superfluous crap to the Hobbit movies. just for the sake of making them run longer.

[the white drew carey]

totally not sitting through this in the theater. Will wait for VUDU or Redbox, whichever comes first. Although I must say, as a huge fan of the LOTR trilogy (extended editions to boot) it does seem like he is adding a lot of superfluous crap to the Hobbit movies. just for the sake of making them run longer.

Yeah. I mean, him and his team did an excellent job condensing LotR into three films, and only two changes they made ever bothered me (Arwen's increased role [which I can get past], and Faramir's change [which was awful]). Now imagine a film full of Faramir changes and made-up Arwen-type stuff, and you'll get the idea.

[taksraven]

Yeah. I mean, him and his team did an excellent job condensing LotR into three films, and only two changes they made ever bothered me (Arwen's increased role [which I can get past], and Faramir's change [which was awful]). Now imagine a film full of Faramir changes and made-up Arwen-type stuff, and you'll get the idea.

Meh, at the end of the day, Jackson knows that most of the audience have *not* read the books, so what's the point in getting worked up about it?

[Gakken85]

I think all the craft and skill that goes into these films > the accuracy to the books.

[Beltane70]

I totally loved it, myself. I have absolutely no problems with them adding things that weren't in the book. If I'm going to complain about anything, it's the fact that we have to wait until next December to see the third part.

[danth]

I really enjoyed the movie. I've also read the book twice and typically I hate when liberties are taken from source material. But I kind of just don't care any more when movies are different from what they're based on. Anyone who likes DYRL doesn't have much of a leg to stand on when griping about divergence. Good things can come from changing things up.

On the other hand, I'm a bit weirded at how much I enjoyed seeing the elves become forest Jedi's and totally murder the sh*t out of those orcs. I mean, the hobbit is totally not about that. Hell, even the Legolas scene in LOTR where he took down that Oliphaunt was kind of out of place in how Matrix-like the killing was. I like the idea of Elves being magical, graceful creatures who are incredibly agile, but seeing them become killing machines seems wrong. Even though it felt so right.

1. Not enough of Bilbo for me. The actor really kills it and they really didn't use him enough. I loved how he wanted to get crap done after all the crying and whining from LOTRs.

3. Legolas looked bigger and more badass than he does in LOTRs, which was weird. He seemed a little OP too. Or rolled too many crits.

4. The love triangle was pretty well done, regardless if it was completely fabricated. It didn't annoy me but I wish they'd put more depth into Bilbo and Dwaves quest instead of making a love triangle to throw a bone to females.

5. Loved the Boffin going nuts in the barrel armor.

6. Smaug was fantastic.

Totally agree with these! I didn't quote 2 or 7 because I didn't have strong feelings on those points.

Edited December 31, 2013 by danth

[the white drew carey]

Gakken's first point (which Danth just quoted above) is a big sticking point for me.

Also, there are enough changes that affect the very nature of the book: cleverness often outweighs brute force. All of the points in the book where Bilbo uses this have been altered to the point where it doesn't mean anything. His well-crafted plan to free the dwarves from the wood elves after weeks of thought (and the fact the he compounds the effect of the plan by returning the keys to the jailer, providing a puzzler for the elves) is lost because Jackson wanted another useless chase scene featuring Legolas 'snowboarding' down hills on objects and dead orcs.

And then Bilbo's cleverness in keeping Smaug interested long enough to not kill him by using riddles and hidden clues is gone (or altered beyond recognition) because we had to have a stupid Geonosis Droid Factory Part II action sequence with dwarves flying around in mining equipment.

The more I think on it, the more I begin to hate the movie. I'm already waiting for the fan-edit when the third one is out where all of the useless crap Jackson put in is taken back out, leaving a nice, solid 2.5-3 hour movie which is actually, you know, about a hobbit.

[Scyla]

I saw the movie a few days ago. I kinda liked it especially the last part with Smaug. Totally awesome even if it feels more like a video boss fight. Oh well. The first part of the movie was a bit boring but that could be because I'm saturated with all the high fantasy games, novels and movies I consume. It was pretty much hero journey set piece moment after moment I'm just a bit tired of that formula. Might switch to some more artsy films next this year before the final movie comes into the cinemas.

On a second thought I feel that the movie is just more of the LotR trilogy. That has not to be a bad thing but for me the previous (extended) Jackson movies are one of most watched movies at home over the last years.

So yeah basically Smaug is awesome the rest is ok.

[myk]

I saw the movie a few days ago. I kinda liked it especially the last part with Smaug. Totally awesome even if it feels more like a video boss fight. Oh well. The first part of the movie was a bit boring but that could be because I'm saturated with all the high fantasy games, novels and movies I consume. It was pretty much hero journey set piece moment after moment I'm just a bit tired of that formula. Might switch to some more artsy films next this year before the final movie comes into the cinemas.

On a second thought I feel that the movie is just more of the LotR trilogy. That has not to be a bad thing but for me the previous (extended) Jackson movies are one of most watched movies at home over the last years.

So yeah basically Smaug is awesome the rest is ok.

I don't think the problem is your regular diet of "twitch" entertainment media, like action/fantasy games, movies, novels, etc. Rather, it's the lackluster characters and pacing in the Hobbit movies. The LOTR movies were entertaining because they had a diverse group of characters fighting their own struggles, yet indirectly battling for a common cause. With the first Hobbit movie, I found it very difficult to care too much about a band of dwarves who were all too identical. Gloin, Oin, Roin, Floin, Groin, Boing...I mean, I just couldn't get myself to care about them and the 50 minutes of screentime they spent in Bilbo's home washing dishes and burping. Many others did care however, but people like you and myself didn't; to each their own...

Edited January 1, 2014 by myk

[Vepariga]

I loved the movie, not really like the book but I still enjoyed it. I think he could have eased up on the slapstick though.

[danth]

Also, there are enough changes that affect the very nature of the book: cleverness often outweighs brute force. All of the points in the book where Bilbo uses this have been altered to the point where it doesn't mean anything. His well-crafted plan to free the dwarves from the wood elves after weeks of thought (and the fact the he compounds the effect of the plan by returning the keys to the jailer, providing a puzzler for the elves) is lost because Jackson wanted another useless chase scene featuring Legolas 'snowboarding' down hills on objects and dead orcs.

And then Bilbo's cleverness in keeping Smaug interested long enough to not kill him by using riddles and hidden clues is gone (or altered beyond recognition) because we had to have a stupid Geonosis Droid Factory Part II action sequence with dwarves flying around in mining equipment.

So true. I wonder if a movie true to the books would totally flop because people only want stupid action flicks.

[Twoducks]

Made fun of the movie with a couple of friends all the way (it was hard not to do it). Good laughs.

The moment with Smaug and Bilbo did shut us up. Now that was quality cinema right there... then they turned Smaug into a stupid Tom chasing mice while getting hit in the head. Way to crap all over the awesome character scene from before.

Wish the giant statue would have pulled a Pacific Rim and punched Smaug. With Elves wanting to pork dwarfs and other overblown made up stuff they could have pulled that one for the sake of it. After the stupid Smaug chase everything was possible.

[Gakken85]

Yeah, Redlettermedia mentions that the Smaug and Bilbo scene seemed to be the whole reason these movies were made and the dialogue doesn't really fit with the rest of the film in the sense that it's such higher quality.

I agree with drew that they could have made a more thoughtful and high-brow version that plays up the magic of the book, and less action movie.

But it is what it is. I can always read the book if that's what I'm looking for.

I think when all three are out it will be a pretty cool trilogy.

It would be nice to see some fan edits where they cut out some of the extras and make a slicker smaller film. (Also mentioned in redlettermedia's review).

[1st Border Red Devil]

The most egregious change (in my opinion) was the inane and ham-handed plot point of having Kili get stabbed with a Morgul-blade.

1.) Dwarves cannot BECOME Wraiths. It was why Sauron was trying to recover the Rings of Power granted to them. This is pretty well spelled out in The Appendices of The Lord of the Rings.

2.) Athelas grow where the Dunedain of old camped/lived for lengths of time. While there were those who lived among the Northmen (the whole Kin-strife of Gondorian succession and The Corsairs of Umbar affair), its highly unlikely that they grew anywhere in Northern Rhovanion (much less anywhere else in Wilderland).

3.) Tauriel is a frikkin AVARIN Elf and there is no way she would appear to have the Light. It was bad enough that Jackson screwed up by granting that to Arwen (and, bafflingly, the Wood Elves walking through The Shire in The Fellowship of the Ring). The reason that Glorfindel appeared that way to Frodo was that he was already halfway into the Wraith-world at the Ford of Bruinen and the latter really was a Noldorin Prince who had lived in Aman during the time of The Two Trees.

Now, I will say that its interesting, in a left-handed way, that Legolas comments the sword Orcrist was made by his kinfolk. This could be, however unlikely, reference to the fact that there was a Legolas Greenleaf, in The Book of the Lost Tales II, who was a scout of The House of the Tree and was known for his keen sight. Tolkien never resolved this issue like he did Glorfindel (it could be that he decided to totally abandon the Legolas of Gondolin). The ONLY way that Legolas statement in The Desolation of Smaug makes sense is if he was in Gondolin (since there were Sindarin Elves who removed there from Nevrast during its founding).

Edited January 3, 2014 by 1st Border Red Devil

[azrael]

Now, I will say that its interesting, in a left-handed way, that Legolas comments the sword Orcrist was made by his kinfolk. This could be, however unlikely, reference to the fact that there was a Legolas Greenleaf, in The Book of the Lost Tales II, who was a scout of The House of the Tree and was known for his keen sight. Tolkien never resolved this issue like he did Glorfindel (it could be that he decided to totally abandon the Legolas of Gondolin). The ONLY way that Legolas statement in The Desolation of Smaug makes sense is if he was in Gondolin (since there were Sindarin Elves who removed there from Nevrast during its founding).

I see that POV as reading into that statement too much.

[Dobber]

The most egregious change (in my opinion) was the inane and ham-handed plot point of having Kili get stabbed with a Morgul-blade.

1.) Dwarves cannot BECOME Wraiths. It was why Sauron was trying to recover the Rings of Power granted to them. This is pretty well spelled out in The Appendices of The Lord of the Rings.

Now I have only seen the movie once, but, IIRC Kili was shot by an Orc arrow...not stabbed by a Morgul blade. I just took it as he was becoming very ill from either infection (orc's aren't very clean) or it was poisoned, and that the herb just has healing properties that can be used beyond just being used to help victims of Morgul blades.

Chris

[Dynaman]

Have to figure out why I can not quote or paste on this machine...

Kili was shot by a poisoned arrow, one of the orcs directly states it.

I was not impressed, the ending was at a terrible spot, now all the "good" stuff will be in the third movie (battle with Smaug and battle of the five armies). I was sorely tempted to wait for the DVD on this movie and only watched it today on impulse (to see it in Imax on the last weekend it will probably be out). Third movie will surely be a rental.

[Jefuemon]

Saw it yesterday, I liked it.

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE in the theater let out a huge "えぇぇぇぇぇぇぇ！！？！？！？！" at the end.

Funny stuff.

[David Hingtgen]

Really should have been 2 long movies, like Kill Bill. It's way more than 1, but just not enough to make 3 out of, even with all the addendums/notes/filler/Legolas they could stuff in.

[azrael]

It's almost over *sigh*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ-stZYAvkQ

[Kanedas Bike]

Absolutely, positively, cannot wait for this to come out.

While as a whole I've enjoyed the Lord of the Rings trilogy much more than the first two Hobbit films (owed most likely to the fact that I read LOTR as a teen, and have never read The Hobbit) I'm a big enough fan to be stoked for this.

-b.

[Marzan]

Looks as impressive as is to be expected for the end of the Hobbit. The boys at Weta have been working hard I see.

I really like the song they used as soundtrack for this. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it the same song that Pippin sings to Denethor in The Return of the King?

[Dobber]

Looks as impressive as is to be expected for the end of the Hobbit. The boys at Weta have been working hard I see.

I really like the song they used as soundtrack for this. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it the same song that Pippin sings to Denethor in The Return of the King?

Yes it is

This looks really good. Can't wait!

Chris

[derex3592]

Looks good. Might go see this one in the theater.