eugimon Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 That's only if Bandai were to make a Koenig Monster that's better than the Yamato one... the only thing that really wrong with the yamato is the hip joint. If bandai could just make that work so that the shuttle mode didn't look like it was about to lose its wings, it would be an instant classic.
nightmareB4macross Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I hope there's a Yamato looky-loo viewing this thread and thinking "Damn, there's still another way we can milk these MW dudes!!! All it takes is to re-release all that we've done in the past and re-scale everything to 1/100!!!" If not, then Graham should tell Yamato to wake up. *Note to Yamato: Quit wasting time and money on ridiculous Macross items like a new 1/60 V.2 line, those ugly 1/200's, or the G-Nu stuff. It's all about perfect transformation 1/100's. Plus if you can pull it off better than everyone else, you would totally stick it to HG/Toynami and Bandai. Oh yeah, and make a decent 1/100 MKII Monster while you're at it!! Think about it.
jenius Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 It is a phenomenal time to be both a Mospeada and a Macross fan. New Macross series plus all these new Macross toys while companies are still actively making toys for the original series... WOW. NB4M, you're missing out on the 1/60 2.0... it's quite nice.
nightmareB4macross Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 It is a phenomenal time to be both a Mospeada and a Macross fan. New Macross series plus all these new Macross toys while companies are still actively making toys for the original series... WOW. NB4M, you're missing out on the 1/60 2.0... it's quite nice. I've already got one and to be honest with you I'm really not fond of it. I just got it because I want to display my 1/60's together, but more likely than not I will probably just use this new 1S Roy and (the up and coing) 1A Hikaru and combine them to make a 1S Hikaru Strike and customize the remainder of the parts. I agree, it is a GREAT time to be a Macross Fan.
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 (edited) What's so bad about it? Surely it's better than the original 1/60? VF-1 is yamatos cash cow since the shape is the same and there is so many variants of the same mech just with different paint schemes. Hopefully yamato can one day give me the variable glaug and vf-4. I'm getting sick of vf-1 all the time. Edited July 30, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker
pochimus prime Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 What's so bad about it? Surely it's better than the original 1/60? VF-1 is yamatos cash cow since the shape is the same and there is so many variants of the same mech just with different paint schemes. Hopefully yamato can one day give me the variable glaug and vf-4. I'm getting sick of vf-1 all the time. IMO, the new 1/60 is overall superior to the 1/48. My only complaints with the new 1/60 is the loss of some detail in the fighter mode and the very dark green visor. For everything else like size, scale, overall proportion, price, and bang for the buck of the full package, these new 1/60's win. I still plan to get at most one 1/48, most likely the Stealth with FPs. But it's 1/60 all the way for me.
jenius Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 IMO, the new 1/60 is overall superior to the 1/48. My only complaints with the new 1/60 is the loss of some detail in the fighter mode and the very dark green visor. For everything else like size, scale, overall proportion, price, and bang for the buck of the full package, these new 1/60's win. I still plan to get at most one 1/48, most likely the Stealth with FPs. But it's 1/60 all the way for me. Guys we're derailing, this thread is meant for the Bandai Frontier toys, not a discussion on the new Yammy 1/60. I apologize for my part in the derailment. I hope we get some exciting news out of Wondefest! At the very least, has Bandai shown painted versions of their Frontier gashapons yet?
pochimus prime Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 yes, more news has it been confirmed if the VF-25S will be packaged with a full armor? That's the package I want to get: VF-25S + Full armor and VF-25F + Super Armor if those packages are possible.
EXO Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 not into these at all. I mean, the fighter modes are pretty as do most fighter modes in Macross, but that battroid is hideous. I keep waiting for a good pic of it but so far it's been pretty bleah... look at those hideous elbow joints. If I get these it would have to have all the fast packs, especially the stampede looking one and it'll stay in fighter mode. I was really hoping that Bandai would outdo Yamato but so far it looks like they'll need a couple more years to catch up as far as the aesthetics of valks. Hopefully they'll prove me wrong when the final product comes out.
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 what about the 1/100? You going to buy some of them?
Omegablue Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 WOW, I think we should ALL get together and form our own toy company, cause no matter what, we just ain't happy with what others do. Anyway, being a lecturer in concept design and 3D, I have to come to Bandai's defence. People it ain't easy taking something that functions in a virtual world of 3D, and converting it into it's full functionality at 1/60th of it's scale and in plastic! We've had plenty of disasters from sculpts into 3D scans and the other way round. The scale factor comes into play, and then secondly the cost issues for public affordability, example - using plastic and not crafted titanium for hinges and flaps. And what’s up with all this comparison between companies like Yamato here, and Yamato there, when 99% of you still find faults with Yamato products? Yes, we are at a damn age where figures in general are so sweet these days, but for fart sakes, these are not pretty Anime Statues, these are transformable toys that require engineering skills to design, and designed with the deadlines of product to public demand, and cost to the public’s necessity to reliability. Lets all be happy it’s not a Macross world of friggin 1999… And if you don't like it... Then don't buy it... Best message to any manufacturer...
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 (edited) I'm happy with yamato actually. So long as they fix the problems in future releases for some of their more expensive toys. At the end of the day they need us to complain. It's a symbiotic relationship. When they do get it right we praise them too. The manufacturer doesn't want us to not buy their products. They want us to be happy. When we are happy they are happy too. I hope yamato are reading this: You didn't include side parts for 1/60 vf-1. Boo to you. All reviewers should mention that imo so that when they read the review, they'll be pressured to include more extras in their valks. Don't let them step all over you! Let them earn your respect. Edited July 30, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker
Omegablue Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 There’s complaining, then there’s constructive criticism. Then there’s possible in a toy, and not possible for the above reasons I previously mentioned. And what has been fixed on Yamato during first production? Usually and most of the time has been done after the first retail issue and reviews by people who actually hold the finished product. So let’s be fair to Bandai and vouch on this figure once we’re holding it, or someone like Graham has it…
Omegablue Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 You didn't include side parts for 1/60 vf-1. Boo to you. Hmmm, this whole side covers thing was brought up about 2 to 3 months ago. Of which at that time the steel molds were already cut, the packaging already printed, the instructions printed, and the prototype already way approved. If Yamato had a stoopid general director, he would think of the following to make us happy. "No wait, lets toss the steel molds and spend another 100K (Molds and fittings are damn expensive), lets create additional molds for the side covers, lets reprint everything in record time to meet street date, and make a sweet loss and not make anymore Valks until we recover the money. Brilliant! I love it. I don't want to step onto any of my fans, and I'm sure while they'll wait years for another valk, they'll be happy with their side covers." Unfortunately as much I would love toy companies to meet my every demand, money and time won't let it. The real world. It's taken one company to release a almost perfect VF-1 (The new yammy 1/60) since 1982... And now we expect a almost perfect VF-25 in 4 months? LOL
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 (edited) Yeah but technology has gotten better. That's why it's ok to bash the old toys from the past like the macross 7 1/65 toys since our standards have gotten higher since then. Vintage toys were cool for their time, but if we didn't expect them to outdo themselves we wouldn't have awesome toys like the transformer binaltechs or the masterpiece primes. For some people it's accurate sculpts, others it sturdy construction (CMS legioss), others want a fighter mode with no gaps in it, others want solid locking mechanisms and yet others still want perfect transformations (this is what caused me to get into the 1/48 over the old 1/60 for example. It's part of the appeal) etc . The ideal would be to try to satisfy all the nitpicks if possible. Anyway, if it's not too late yamato: side parts for 1D. Thanks. If it can't be helped then it can't be helped. In the end QC is the most important one to work on. These minor things can wait. I think bandai can pull off a great toy. Just that some nitpicks (if they can be solved) should be noted about in reviews. Just to maintain some sort of objectivity and hope that future toy manufacturers can use the criticism as a guide to looking for new ways to improve existing things. (for example the chunky munky is getting the better head sculpts - which is good news! hooray) Edited July 30, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker
ruskiiVFaussie Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 yes, more news has it been confirmed if the VF-25S will be packaged with a full armor? That's the package I want to get: VF-25S + Full armor and VF-25F + Super Armor if those packages are possible. best avatar... ever.
EXO Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 There’s complaining, then there’s constructive criticism. Then there’s possible in a toy, and not possible for the above reasons I previously mentioned. And what has been fixed on Yamato during first production? Usually and most of the time has been done after the first retail issue and reviews by people who actually hold the finished product. So let’s be fair to Bandai and vouch on this figure once we’re holding it, or someone like Graham has it… Why do you think I said Bandai still has to catch up? I felt the same way about Yamato's first releases. I didnt like the 1/60s and the 1/72s. It wasn't until the 1/48s and the new 1/60's that they finally got my attention. Just because a toy company makes it doesn't mean we have to bend over and take it. Yeah, if I don't like I don't buy it. Thanks captain obvious for the life lesson... I'm sorry I can't like everything mommy feeds me. I just happen to have things called standards, maybe you should teach that in your lectures.
pochimus prime Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 best avatar... ever. haha thanks As for the matter at hand, it's really unavoidable to compare Bandai's foray out of their usual "chunky money" editions to Yamato's. After the 1/48's Yamato became the yardstick over all others will be measured up. Their praise-worthy execution of the 1/60 perfect transformation further upped the ante. However, I do welcome Bandai in their effort, and if I see potential in their VF-25, I'll support them as much as I'll support Yamato. I want each of them to give each other hefty competition. This'll up the quality and make the price more competitive. Go Yamato.Go Bandai. Consumers win And,yes, it's good to complain or criticize the products because if we just keep our mouths shut, they won't really grasp what their customers want. I do agree that complaining and bashing are two different things. Just for the record, though, I didn't think EXO bashed Bandai for their efforts.
eriku Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Criticism and complaining are fine, and nobody should be betting all of their chips on Bandai or any company, but lets use some common sense. The only thing we can fairly or somewhat accurately base our expectations on for the Bandai MF toys are the high-end toys Bandai has made in the last few years because THAT is where Bandai is right now. They're not back in in the 1990's making cheap and chunky M7 toys for kids. The most obvious thing to look back at for comparison s the DX Aquarion toy, especially since it's from the same toy line and from a Kawamori design, but people would rather ignore that and point at toys that are 10 to 25 years old. That said, I'd LOVE to see Bandai or another company make a 'retro' style 25 with the same blocky and chunky design of the old 1/55.
Omegablue Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Why do you think I said Bandai still has to catch up? I felt the same way about Yamato's first releases. I didnt like the 1/60s and the 1/72s. It wasn't until the 1/48s and the new 1/60's that they finally got my attention. Just because a toy company makes it doesn't mean we have to bend over and take it. Yeah, if I don't like I don't buy it. Thanks captain obvious for the life lesson... I'm sorry I can't like everything mommy feeds me. I just happen to have things called standards, maybe you should teach that in your lectures. Hence why I stated "It's taken one company to release a almost perfect VF-1 (The new yammy 1/60) since 1982... And now we expect a almost perfect VF-25 in 4 months?" Also, maybe you should go to engineering school, and then make your own toys to your own expected standards in what most of us call reality. Or how about you apply for a job at Bandai and show them how to do it? Maybe you're the missing link in between a good toy and great toy?
EXO Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Maybe you're the missing link in between a good toy and great toy? I wouldn't doubt it... It's funny how it bugs you that some people complain and think that being experts, but at the same time, you throw your degree around just to let people know who the experts is... pot... meet kettle...
Fly4victory Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Thanks Pochimus Prime, This is the first thing on Macross World that my wife likes.
pochimus prime Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) Criticism and complaining are fine, and nobody should be betting all of their chips on Bandai or any company, but lets use some common sense. The only thing we can fairly or somewhat accurately base our expectations on for the Bandai MF toys are the high-end toys Bandai has made in the last few years because THAT is where Bandai is right now. They're not back in in the 1990's making cheap and chunky M7 toys for kids. The most obvious thing to look back at for comparison s the DX Aquarion toy, especially since it's from the same toy line and from a Kawamori design, but people would rather ignore that and point at toys that are 10 to 25 years old. That said, I'd LOVE to see Bandai or another company make a 'retro' style 25 with the same blocky and chunky design of the old 1/55. You're right I just realized that they're veterans in collectible toys. Their SoC line's really great, just look at how Voltes V turned out. (Background: here in the Philippines, Voltes V is extremely popular even today thanks to the great support of a local TV network). This gives me much more renewd faith in these VF-25's @ Fly4victory: Thanks Edited July 31, 2008 by pochimus prime
wolfx Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Criticism and complaining are fine, and nobody should be betting all of their chips on Bandai or any company, but lets use some common sense. The only thing we can fairly or somewhat accurately base our expectations on for the Bandai MF toys are the high-end toys Bandai has made in the last few years because THAT is where Bandai is right now. They're not back in in the 1990's making cheap and chunky M7 toys for kids. The most obvious thing to look back at for comparison s the DX Aquarion toy, especially since it's from the same toy line and from a Kawamori design, but people would rather ignore that and point at toys that are 10 to 25 years old. That said, I'd LOVE to see Bandai or another company make a 'retro' style 25 with the same blocky and chunky design of the old 1/55. Actually , I'm AFRAID if the VF-25 ends up like the DX Aquarion. It doesn't stand without the stand, poseability wasn't great, joints in some areas were loose....etc etc. And M7 toys weren't cheap then either....i really doubt they were for kids despite the chunky toys. And if you compare to recent toys, Eureka 7 and even Code Geass toys weren't handled well enough despite being popular franchises. I can only hope the VF-25 will be around SOC quality. I won't settle for less.
Sumdumgai Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 I'm waiting to see the final product, but the prototypes haven't been encouraging. Improvements have been made, but they still feel really off in proportions and somewhat chunky.
Master Dex Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 You know... I don't really care if it isn't perfect. I don't care if some random joint ends up loose, or if the battroid shoulders are a little big. I don't care if it cannot stand on it's own without a stand mechanism. I do want it to feel well constructed for $120 or so, but still I think I am making a point. What I really want, is a decent toy of the VF-25 which I have seen as one of the coolest mechs in Macross. There are things I like about all valks but I just really like this one for some reason (the design is what I like the most, in fighter and battroid) and I would just like to have a decently made toy of it because I think it is cool. It doesn't need to be the most perfect thing in the world with no QC issues and the possibility of a natural human being. Hell I'll be fine with it even if the inner cockpit doesn't have much detail or if the white and yellows are too bright. I don't even think I'll be bothered if the proportions aren't show accurate, actually that thought never bothered me at all. Of course I imagine it is probably hard to make things completely show accurate. I understand how people who are big on collecting want certain things and I know they (as in the toy companies) won't try to make it better if no one complains. I'm not asking people to stop complaining, please do so and the thing will probably be better for it. What I am saying is that I think this is going to be a pretty decent if not very nice figure of the VF-25 and in the end that is all for which I ask.
LadyLuck® Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) It's funny how it bugs you that some people complain and think that being experts, but at the same time, you throw your degree around just to let people know who the experts is... pot... meet kettle... Wow nicely said... but don't you think that is also applicable to you too. Sorry for being offensive but Omegablue's point are defense on what you said that "Bandai would outdo Yamato but so far it looks like they'll need a couple more years to catch up " I'm NO expert on 3d stuff or engineering but from that context its like your saying "Yamato is the best ever and Bandai sucks". Com'on lets be realistic, are willing to buy Bandai Products? is it really that Bad? Are you saying that Yamato always have done a great job and yet your still complaining. Sorry bro. for being so nosy or being too cautious but sometimes its just so wrong, critizing so much. PEACE OUT BRO. and again sorry if I ever offended you Edited July 31, 2008 by LadyLuck®
LadyLuck® Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) And from what I said... I still and will believe on Bandai(you need more detail). Yamato will always amaze me(your QC is something always to talk about). Its just competition Edited July 31, 2008 by LadyLuck®
ruskiiVFaussie Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 perhaps we have been spoilt with near perfect scultps with yamato (1/48 VF-1, 1/60 19 and onwards) and try to expect the same from bandai. Again, i'll wait for final product...
eugimon Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 perhaps we have been spoilt with near perfect scultps with yamato (1/48 VF-1, 1/60 19 and onwards) and try to expect the same from bandai. Again, i'll wait for final product... well, it seems to me yamato was willing to sacrifice playability and even durability for the sake of being as true as possible to the art where Bandai is putting more of an emphasis on the "toy" qualities, because it's pretty obvious from the 1/72 model that they're perfectly capable of making an line art faithful version of the vf-25
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) You know... I don't really care if it isn't perfect. I don't care if some random joint ends up loose, or if the battroid shoulders are a little big. I don't care if it cannot stand on it's own without a stand mechanism. I do want it to feel well constructed for $120 or so, but still I think I am making a point. What I really want, is a decent toy of the VF-25 which I have seen as one of the coolest mechs in Macross. There are things I like about all valks but I just really like this one for some reason (the design is what I like the most, in fighter and battroid) and I would just like to have a decently made toy of it because I think it is cool. It doesn't need to be the most perfect thing in the world with no QC issues and the possibility of a natural human being. Hell I'll be fine with it even if the inner cockpit doesn't have much detail or if the white and yellows are too bright. I don't even think I'll be bothered if the proportions aren't show accurate, actually that thought never bothered me at all. Of course I imagine it is probably hard to make things completely show accurate. I understand how people who are big on collecting want certain things and I know they (as in the toy companies) won't try to make it better if no one complains. I'm not asking people to stop complaining, please do so and the thing will probably be better for it. What I am saying is that I think this is going to be a pretty decent if not very nice figure of the VF-25 and in the end that is all for which I ask. QFT. The magazines have got to have something to talk about each month so bandai must show something in stages. Doesn't mean the final thing will look anything like it. They could be just pretending that's how far they are and in reality they've already finished it. What MW needs is a graham for bandai news. "Ahh so greg, What can you tell us about the vf-25?" Greg: "Once you see the final thing you won't be disapointed. I am playing with it now but can't show you anything. It's all very accurate to the lineart, it's going to cause you to upset your girlfriend, and everything locks together good and is virtually indestructible after I dropped it out the window and almost accidentally killed a small child with it. Diecast parts didn't have any paintchipping where the toy hit the floor either. I'm selling all my toys on ebay now to buy multiples." Edited July 31, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker
ruskiiVFaussie Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) Or just not hear anything at all. (i know G-man is on vacation) But i really want to know what his thoughts are on all these exclusives. Edited July 31, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie
eugimon Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 you know, its these outrageous claims that somehow bandai can repeal the laws of nature, that they can make everything perfect with no compromises... over and over again, that make people want to post up stuff like how meh they are about this.
wolfx Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Greg: "Once you see the final thing you won't be disapointed. I am playing with it now but can't show you anything. It's all very accurate to the lineart, it's going to cause you to upset your girlfriend, and everything locks together good and is virtually indestructible after I dropped it out the window and almost accidentally killed a small child with it. Diecast parts didn't have any paintchipping where the toy hit the floor either. I'm selling all my toys on ebay now to buy multiples." Is Greg = Graham + Godzilla?
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