cube Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 For the person who mentioned the MG EX-S, I have personal experience with the Bandai EX-S Gundam MG kit. It has pretty bad proportions IMO and the ankle on mine snapped on the second transformation. Color me not impressed. Graham on the same note, yamato is known for breaking tabs, hips, shoulders, bad proportions, legs that won't stay in etc, etc...and transforming toys ARE their bread and butter. With Bandai's track record of SOC releases, and even their Japanese Rangers/Sentai lines, they have proven they can make excellent, complex transforming and combining robots. Plus, with the volume of toys bandai puts out, they can offer a lot more toy at a lower price point. Most of the toys yamato is doing "right" now, they've had 2 or 3 shots at that were far from ideal. Still, the more the merrier when it comes to toys...it's just hard to say anything bad about bandai when they have consistently been the leader when it comes to quality toys for the last few years (at least as long as I've been in the toy game)
Graham Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 Cube, I think we have to agree to disagree about proportions. IMO, Yamato have done an excellent job on the proprtions of their toys and they just keep getting better and better. As for toys breaking, well I've had toys from every manufacturer break, including many from Bandai. The more complex you make a toy, the more articulation, features and gimmicks you add, the greater the chance that something will break whoever the manufacturer. Graham
cube Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 ^for proportions, the Fast packs were way to small on the first 1/60 VF-1s, the first yf-21 was a lump, the 1/48 nosecone is huge and the chicken hands are way too small...stuff like that. As for breakages, yes the more complex a toy is, the more likely it is to have breakages somewhere, but the hips of a 11b are not a complex part...neither are the bp8 pieces. My experience with bandai has always been positive, even on the more complex pieces like dancougar (his head is an inch and a half tall triple changer). my real issue with the yamato toys is their fun value. they might look great in each mode, but they turn into a floppy mess when you try to transform them. Bandai's have always maintained a sturdy feel as you transform. The overall quality and finish has always been much nicer on the bandais I have as well, even at much lower price points. The choices yamato have made weren't necessary, and a tighter/sturdier method could have been used with no sacrifices (ie, the swing bar thingy on the 1/48s...very sloppily done for a very simple piece) anyhoo, these 1/60 vf-25s are looking great so far and come in at a nice price point....as long as we see Luca's i'm happy
mustang1 Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 found this while browsing Ebay. Are these legit? http://cgi.ebay.com/BANDAI-DX-Chogokin-1-6...1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/BANDAI-DX-Chogokin-1-6...1QQcmdZViewItem
Master Dex Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 Kawamori did request changes during the designing process of the toy, and retconned one of his own designs...so if anything blame Kawamori at this point. No one should be surprised, this is the same guy that didn't want an animation accurate tan tinted VF-0A out by Yamato because to him it was always grey. Thing is Takara is their main rival in Japan. Both make great toys, I'd love to see a valkyrie from Takara at some point, Masterpiece Starscream is my favorite Transformer. Bandai is doing a good job so far, I eagerly await announcement and pics of the armored Ozma. I agree on Masterpiece Starscream, one of the best things in my collection, and of course Kawamori himself designed that one, so I'm glad to say (as a person who currently doesn't actually own any valks) that I do own at least one thing designed by Kawamori. Also agreed that Bandai seems to be doing excellent so far, my faith never waned. While armored pack doesn't interest me as much, I will want to see how it looks as well.
Chindenathus Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 I agree on Masterpiece Starscream, one of the best things in my collection, and of course Kawamori himself designed that one, so I'm glad to say (as a person who currently doesn't actually own any valks) that I do own at least one thing designed by Kawamori. Also agreed that Bandai seems to be doing excellent so far, my faith never waned. While armored pack doesn't interest me as much, I will want to see how it looks as well. Kawamori redigested the MP Seeker design and arguably did some to improve it and quite a bit to hurt it. Especially the legs/feet/tail-booms issue. The redesign of the arms and cannons didn't win any points with me either.
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) Yamato make great accurate looking fighters. Bandai make great chunky robots that look like you could hold them without something breaking too much. Bandai is cheaper, been around longer, and has more experience. but... I always felt like Bandai would prefer to let gundam hog all the attention than macross for some reason. Where are the PG macross kits? Come on show us your best.. But it seems like the attitude is: "well we won;t make as much from macross as a property compared to gundam so why should we?" The argument isn't really about "bandai being unable to make quality toys", more like the feeling that the macross series in general doesn't warrant their attention as much so "being able to make profit from the masses" is more important than "creating toys that fans of macross wish to see". If there wasn't a macross F tv series, bandai would just be content re-releasing the old chunky munky forever because they would see no reason to waste energy making new vf-1 toys. So that's why we love yamato. Not because we don't think bandai is capable of great toys. But that for a long time, we all didn't get much macross coming from them that are new. Whether the 1/100 are made or not is not as important as to whether it could be good as a toy at that scale. As Graham mentioned the size of the thing might mean it could break easily for something that complex. VF-1 isn't as complex. If bandai can and do pull it off then yippeee! Great! But then will we see much detail and will parts click together firmly and will it be an accurate sculpt at this scale? These are problems for valks with complex transformations. Maybe bandai can do it but there isn't much interest in them at a small size? Edited June 30, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker
Graham Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 I for one really hope the do the Armored pack for Ozma. I really like how it loooks in both fighter and battroid modes. Graham
Fort Max Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) While Bandai certainly has many years experience with transforming toys, transforming toys are not their bread and butter. As somebody aptly pointed out, there is a big difference between a Valkyrie, which when transformed actually looks like a plane and a Gundam, which when transformed generally looks like just a folded up robot. While Bandai has experience with transforming mecha, I still think that most of the transforming mecha they have made has been relatively simple in design with a few exceptions, such as Gunbuster. IMO Bandai doesn’t have Yamato’s level of experience with making Valkyries that look great in all three modes, especially Fighter mode. The simple fact is that in many other mecha anime franchises, the mecha designs do not generally make a great deal of effort at making the alternate mode look good, Transformers being one of the exceptions. People here often say look at Bandai’s SOC line for excellent engineering. I agree that the SOCs are great toys. I’ve owned many of them, but there are only a few of them, namely the above-mentioned Gunbuster and perhaps Dancouga and 1 or 2 others that have complex transformation. Most of the rest are relatively simple design wise. Somebody mentioned the recent SOC Iron Gear. While it is a great toy with lots of Gimmicks, the transformation is not exactly rocket science. Graham Well said Graham, The problem with debating the merits of SOC's in this way is that just about all of them are of older mechs that were simple by the nesscity of their animated designs, none of which had altmodes even approaching the realism of Transformers or Macross. This however pretty much is Bandai's first transforming real robot SOC and from what I've seen this is what Bandai can really do when they get something challenging. Edited June 30, 2008 by Fort Max
Major Focker Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 found this while browsing Ebay. Are these legit? http://cgi.ebay.com/BANDAI-DX-Chogokin-1-6...1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/BANDAI-DX-Chogokin-1-6...1QQcmdZViewItem you know what they say about too good to be true... but man, i'm so rabid for a vf-25 that i'm actually tempted. seems like he also has the new vf-1a and the tomahawk up for pre-order and also "available for shipment within 30 days of purchase". all the release dates circulating right now point to midQ3 at the earliest, so no matter how much i want to believe it'll be sooner i'm keeping my wallet in my backpocket until then.
ruskiiVFaussie Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) 2-4 years, or so I've been told Graham Well lets hope Bandai do a good job. I'd love an Ozma (detachable) Armoured. Edited June 30, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie
Dobber Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 Salamander, http://www.hlj.com/product/BAN949500 IronGear http://www.hlj.com/product/BAN911829 , http://www.hlj.com/product/SHE33039 - Dancouga http://www.hlj.com/product/BAN932905 - Xabungle So, is this good practice for bandai to make a valk? I just see transformers. Bulkyness. I'm still hopeful tho. What i have seen so far with the VF-25 looks quite well done. 100% AGREE with you there. If those are what people are using to trump up Bandai! HA!! Hell they may be accurate to the anime but that just means the design is bulky too. Macross Valks need to be sleek realistic fighter craft. Like Ruskii said so far I am still liking what I see.... but those SOC's just look like expensive "cheap" transformers. Oh, yes, like Graham said, transformers is probably one of the few other lines that is "SUPPOSED" to have nicely proportioned vehicle modes and even then the ONLY good looking "fighter" mode transformer is the Masterpeice Starscream mold. Nobody except Yamato put forth the effort to do this for macross valks, we are not saying no-one else can , just no-one else has bothered to.....yet. I really do hope Bandai will hit this one out of the park Chris
QuinJester Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) One shouldn't confuse "aesthetic" with "limitation". A lot of the 80's-tastic SOCs are blocky, chunky, and tubby looking, yes. Unfortunately, most of them were also never designed to actually transform in the real world, making a lot of those "chunky" and "simple" designs a nightmare of cleverly designed swinging panels and pivots; unfortunately, humanity doesn't have easy access to morphing plastics that can change size and shape, yet. Xabungle's crotch is a piece of genius, is just as complex as any moving mechanism on the YF-19 or SV-51, and it's a quarter of the size. While it's easy to "poo poo" a lot of bandai's SOC and other transforming work simply because its design aesthetic doesn't match the lithe proportions of the F mecha, you shouldn't assume that it means Bandai don't have the engineering and design cojones to make complicated mechanisms, make them small, and make them sturdy. I'm surprised that so many people seem to be ignoring the obvious point of comparison for this; the LAST DX product Bandai produced, and a Kawamori design, no less. Aquarion. Edited June 30, 2008 by QuinJester
Black Valkyrie Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 I agree with Graham regarding the transformation toys, especially in the Macross category. If I was Bandai first I would make a MG VF-25 with metal joints to test the market because now a days the price factor is very important to a consumer, that’s why I never owned a SOC or any of the Yamato Valks or the other mecha, just the 1/55 and the old 1/60 VF-1, one only. Also I would produce a 1/100 FIX with hard ABS frame system. I think Bandai should focus the valk production more for HG/MG kits because of the cost beside MSG franchise.
badboy00z Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 A MG valk can't take full advantage of the recent MG tech (full frame and super poseable) that Bandai has put out due to the design nature of valkyries. Although I am a Bandai supporter I do wish that Yamato can make the 25 after seeing the 21.
eriku Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 Regardless of Bandai's past or current offerings for transforming toys, they have the same access to and are just as capable as Yamato, TakaTomy, CMs, etc. of hiring designers and sculptors to bring anything they want into existence. If Bandai is interested in giving us a sleek and sexy transforming valk with intricate design and smooth lines, there's really no reason to think they can't. They've certainly got the budget for it.
Hikuro Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 Saw those ebay aucitions lastnight, there are gonna be some po'ed customers.
UN Spacy Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 Whoever won that VF-25 is TOTALLY jumping the gun. Baka. I've read too many horror stories from other MW'ers about preordering on E-Bay. Besides it isn't even out for another five to six months. Baka baka.
Kyp Durron Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 Whoever won that VF-25 is TOTALLY jumping the gun. Baka. I've read too many horror stories from other MW'ers about preordering on E-Bay. Besides it isn't even out for another five to six months. Baka baka. Yep, he just won the Baka Award for bidding and winning that auction. -Kyp
SuperHobo Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 Wow, someone actually decided to pre-order from that HK seller. Looks like I have to buy someone a huge white dunce cap.
vermillion01 Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 Has anyone looked at their "store" site? (toysonline2002) They have 7 unreleased macross items listed from the new 1/60v2 (including seperate SS parts), the 1/60 destroid and 1/55 bandai's!!!! all apprently released within 30 days WOW! Should this be a small lawsuit waiting to happen? nowhere on their site or on their auction does it say "pre-order" just "This item will be available for ship within 30 days from the date of purchase" this stuff p155es me off! Back on topic... these cant come soon enough!
fhrex Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 I have found a VF-25 (ozama) for sale on ebay....it is from a hong kong seller and is stated to be available for shipment 30 days from purchase...is this for real? Are the Bandai figures being released that soon?
Master Dex Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 I have found a VF-25 (ozama) for sale on ebay....it is from a hong kong seller and is stated to be available for shipment 30 days from purchase...is this for real? Are the Bandai figures being released that soon? No, it is best to ignore it. I have heard of people getting a hold of prototypes and selling them to customers who would bother (this actually happens a lot with Transformers toys), but if you want the full finished product and not a prototype then don't bother. Also we can't be sure it is even that, it could just as easily be a hoax or scam.
vermillion01 Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) I have found a VF-25 (ozama) for sale on ebay....it is from a hong kong seller and is stated to be available for shipment 30 days from purchase...is this for real? Are the Bandai figures being released that soon? Maybe you should read the last couple of posts including my own.... NO! This is not due to be released for months and months yet. I think November ish was the last estimate. Edited June 30, 2008 by vermillion01
Graham Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 The Bandai 1/60 scale DX VF-25 toys are not scheduled for release until November 2008. The Bandai 1/72 scale VF-25 model kits are scheduled for September release. A bit of simple research, i.e. reading a few pages back would dig up this information. As with all release dates, these may be subject to change. Graham
drifand Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 The 1/60 Tomahawk has also been offered for pre-order in Singapore... 100SGD for early birds.
Graham Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 The 1/60 Tomahawk has also been offered for pre-order in Singapore... 100SGD for early birds. Wrong thread. Graham
fhrex Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 The Bandai 1/60 scale DX VF-25 toys are not scheduled for release until November 2008. The Bandai 1/72 scale VF-25 model kits are scheduled for September release. A bit of simple research, i.e. reading a few pages back would dig up this information. As with all release dates, these may be subject to change. Graham Thanks Graham....sorry I didnt catch the previous posts. I thought it was a little fishy, but I knew all of you would know what was goin on
MangledMess Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) Is it me, or does the VF-25F's head looks... chubby? Aside from that and the torso area that seems to bother me to no end(Hope that doubt goes away when they final product emerges.), it's looking good. http://ga.sbcr.jp/mreport/009935/02.html Ok, it is me. Head and torso of Alto's VF-25 looks quite cool now the more I look at it. I'm starting to like both this and the VF-25F. Hope the leg pelvis joints aren't as fragile as it looks in the final product. Edited July 1, 2008 by MangledMess
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 Ok, it is me. Head and torso of Alto's VF-25 looks quite cool now the more I look at it. I'm starting to like both this and the VF-25F. Hope the leg pelvis joints aren't as fragile as it looks in the final product. biggrin.gif Thats the model kit man, wrong thread.
Guest sh002 Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 http://www.imageanime.com/macross2.html imageanime has them for preorder. hope other sites put up preorder soon
protostar8 Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) So, a person could just about buy 3 model kits for the price of one of the toys. Neither come with armor, though the toy might have an add-on armor set later. Hmmm....but the model kits will likely have kit-bashed or custom made armor unless armored versions are released.... Decisions are hard to make sometimes, but I gotta say I'm leaning towards the models on this one. Any real reason the toys would be better (other than the slight size difference)? And Image Anime is and has been overpriced in my opinion. I can probably get the kit shipped for the same price as their pre-shipped price. Definitely cheaper than their $60 price. Edited July 1, 2008 by protostar8
Raptor One Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 Pre-orders up at BBTS Alto Ozma Are the pics on their page new? If so, anyone have a high rez version?
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