Bandai Macross Frontier toys thread

[miriya]

sure, thanks! that's pretty generous. I'll PM you with my shipping address.

I love this place.

Literally laughed out loud!

[Kyp Durron]

really cool, want to see in figther and gerwalk mode

can n't wait for November

I can't wait for November either and I would also like to see this in Fighter and Gerwalk mode as well.

Definitely looking good Bandai, keep Yamato sweating!

-Kyp

[badboy00z]

It wasn't a dogfight, he was shot by 3 Qraus simultaneously and wasn't aware they were there.

Which episode was this??

[Master Dex]

Which episode was this??

No episode, we are joking about stupid ways Ozma could die.

[dizman]

Wow, those painted protos look gorgeous, hopefully this will come with FP's on first release. I'm not too sure wether or not to get Ozuma or Alto editions, but I'm a darker guy myself so that dull grey looks cool to me. Ozuma with either A. Internally combust or B. Survive and live a long eventful life (he'll probably only lose a body part instead of die).

Edited June 29, 2008 by dizman

[Master Dex]

Wow, those painted protos look gorgeous, hopefully this will come with FP's on first release. I'm not too sure wether or not to get Ozuma or Alto editions, but I'm a darker guy myself so that dull grey looks cool to me. Ozuma with either A. Internally combust or B. Survive and live a long eventful life (he'll probably only lose a body part instead of die).

Actually that is something I posted in the theories thread over in Movies and TV. Perhaps Ozma gets injured badly but not killed. However he can not fly again and maybe not even walk or something. That could lead to a lot of character drama for him as he tried to deal with this. Then Alto can get his Valk without him being dead.

As for the toy, I am leaning to get Ozma's more than Alto but only if I can get Super parts for Ozma (the armor pack is nice but I like the super more). If they only make the armor pack for Ozma then I'll probably get Alto to get the Super pack. I like you have a tendency to go with darker color schemes, also I'm a sucker for the S type Valk.

[Kyp Durron]

I'm kinda torn myself as to which one to get....I would like to get the S type, but only if Alto ends up with it later on. Otherwise, I'll just get Alto's outright.

-Kyp

[renkenjutsu]

We all know we're going to get every variant anyway

[CF18]

Bandai:

We want the sound booster accessory pack, with 1/60 Ranks standing on the back seat!

And the fast packs need to be able to attach together nicely with a fold booster like how Alto left them in orbit. Michael was in a hurry so lets forget about the mess he left.

Oh yeah there are two type of fold boosters now, so remember to make them too!

And the gun can be attached to the leg.

Edited June 29, 2008 by CF18

[LadyLuck®]

Bandai:

We want the sound booster accessory pack, with 1/60 Ranks standing on the back seat!

And the fast packs need to be able to attach together nicely with a fold booster like how Alto left them in orbit. Michael was in a hurry so lets forget about the mess he left.

Oh yeah there are two type of fold boosters now, so remember to make them too!

And the gun can be attached to the leg.

Didnt notice that at all... yeah your right Bandai must make it accurate for the accesories, I think they'll make the LAI fold booster, with VF-27 as a BONUS

and to Bandai please don't make the FP's in EX-Box like you did on the Eva Positron Rifle

[UN Spacy]

Nice catch on the gunpod leg attachment.

[Graham]

Definitely looking good Bandai, keep Yamato sweating!

-Kyp

They have nothing to sweat about. The SV-51 are YF-21 masterpieces IMO and shows they are second to no one and the design and engineering that went into the 1/60 VF-1 is about as perfect as you can get.

Graham

[cyde01]

Bandai:

We want the sound booster accessory pack, with 1/60 Ranks standing on the back seat!

And the fast packs need to be able to attach together nicely with a fold booster like how Alto left them in orbit. Michael was in a hurry so lets forget about the mess he left.

Oh yeah there are two type of fold boosters now, so remember to make them too!

And the gun can be attached to the leg.

you forgot the sound booster speaker pods mounted under the wings.

[Graham]

I wouldn't say for sure just yet, maybe Bandai decided to hold off til they are done engineering the DX figures, as the 1/100 line, though simpler, has potential for exponentially more releases.

My guess is that Bandai found out that designing a "simple transformation" Valk, while still having it look good enough for the discerning standards of todays consumers is not as simple a task as they expected.

Designing a simple transformation toy that looks average or that looks crap is easy. Designing one that looks good in all three modes is actually a lot more difficult than most would expect.

With Gundams its easy, cus' most transforming Gundams are just bend the leg at the knees, point feet down, rotate waist 180 degress and attach the shield over the head. Valks in general are a whole different kettle of fish and several orders of magnitude more complex in transformation.

Graham

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Hope they are having fun with it, gotta love the variable valk and respect it Bandai!

[LadyLuck®]

My guess is that Bandai found out that designing a "simple transformation" Valk, while still having it look good enough for the discerning standards of todays consumers is not as simple a task as they expected.

Designing a simple transformation toy that looks average or that looks crap is easy. Designing one that looks good in all three modes is actually a lot more difficult than most would expect.

Graham

Your right I think its way to much to pass... Maybe their planning a MSiA/GFF-like lines for the VF's and its fully transfomable in 3 modes

[Master Dex]

My guess is that Bandai found out that designing a "simple transformation" Valk, while still having it look good enough for the discerning standards of todays consumers is not as simple a task as they expected.

Designing a simple transformation toy that looks average or that looks crap is easy. Designing one that looks good in all three modes is actually a lot more difficult than most would expect.

With Gundams its easy, cus' most transforming Gundams are just bend the leg at the knees, point feet down, rotate waist 180 degress and attach the shield over the head. Valks in general are a whole different kettle of fish and several orders of magnitude more complex in transformation.

Graham

Perhaps Bandai can get transforming tips from Takara, they've been dealing with Transforming toys for almost 25 years now. The best and biggest ones are really complex sometimes and even the small ones are not half back most of the time (depends on which line of TFs though). Of course a Valkyrie is very different from a TF however it is not like they haven't crossed paths before (there are still some Macross-ignorant TF fans that wonder why Jetfire's transformation is so nice and makes him still look cooler than the original Starscream).

[CF18]

you forgot the sound booster speaker pods mounted under the wings.

Come on how can anyone miss that. Of course that is the main part of the Sound Booster pack. I just hope if Bandai do it, it is not an exclusive part of a second VF-25G package.

[Black Valkyrie]

PS, Hot avatar... Who is she?

Chae Rim.

Back to subject,

I bet they`ll be limited like the other DX figures before, only the sells will judge.

[Vifam7]

My guess is that Bandai found out that designing a "simple transformation" Valk, while still having it look good enough for the discerning standards of todays consumers is not as simple a task as they expected.

Designing a simple transformation toy that looks average or that looks crap is easy. Designing one that looks good in all three modes is actually a lot more difficult than most would expect.

With Gundams its easy, cus' most transforming Gundams are just bend the leg at the knees, point feet down, rotate waist 180 degress and attach the shield over the head. Valks in general are a whole different kettle of fish and several orders of magnitude more complex in transformation.

Graham

I don't think the issue is so much the designing of the toy to look good enough. The issue is more likely whether it can be designed ,made, and sold at a price consumers will accept. I think most of us will accept a few trade-offs on the looks if the price was right. I mean there are folks who are willing to buy Toynami's 1/100 Valks at $60 a pop.

[eriku]

I'm still amazed that people seem to think Bandai is inexperienced at making transforming toys.

[Master Dex]

I don't think they're bad, I've liked Bandai for years. I think they'll be find on the transforming aspect, but if they really did need help the people at Takara are pretty good at it by now, but I think they're good.

[Kcsquare]

With Gundams its easy, cus' most transforming Gundams are just bend the leg at the knees, point feet down, rotate waist 180 degress and attach the shield over the head. Valks in general are a whole different kettle of fish and several orders of magnitude more complex in transformation.

Graham

Hi Graham,

I beg to differ on your last point. Not all tranforming MS are design that way

Have you seen the MG Ex-S Superior Gundam? I would consider the complexity of its transformation equal if not exceeding that of valks; and it is a gunpla, not a toy

Edited June 29, 2008 by Kcsquare

[Salamander]

My guess is that Bandai found out that designing a "simple transformation" Valk, while still having it look good enough for the discerning standards of todays consumers is not as simple a task as they expected.

Designing a simple transformation toy that looks average or that looks crap is easy. Designing one that looks good in all three modes is actually a lot more difficult than most would expect.

With Gundams its easy, cus' most transforming Gundams are just bend the leg at the knees, point feet down, rotate waist 180 degress and attach the shield over the head. Valks in general are a whole different kettle of fish and several orders of magnitude more complex in transformation.

And:

Perhaps Bandai can get transforming tips from Takara, they've been dealing with Transforming toys for almost 25 years now. The best and biggest ones are really complex sometimes and even the small ones are not half back most of the time (depends on which line of TFs though). Of course a Valkyrie is very different from a TF however it is not like they haven't crossed paths before (there are still some Macross-ignorant TF fans that wonder why Jetfire's transformation is so nice and makes him still look cooler than the original Starscream).

Excuse me, but these kind of statements make me boggle.

Bandai (well, their design office Plex) has been designing transforming toys for at least as long as Takara, including really complicated ones (already in the early 1980s). Back then, they designed tons of really complicated toys for various sentai series and (especially) Machine Robo (known as Gobots overseas).

Suggesting that they do not know how to make complex yet show-accurate transforming toys 'a la Yamato' is....inane. Especially considering what they've turned out in the Soul of Chogokin line the last couple of years. Maybe you should pick up such nice transforming toys like (only mentioning the ones I have, other people might comment on other Bandai toys):

- SoC Xabungle: about the size of a 1/144 Gundam model kit, with diecast, tons of accessories, and an accurate transformation.

- SoC Dancougar: One of the first transforming SoCs, and a really fine one. It also strikes a nice 'average' between how Danny looked in the show and the vintage toy...

- SoC Irongear: This is like a giant big cool playset, with tons of opening panels, a buttload of small PVC Walker Machines, some pretty cool accessories, and of course it transforms.

Some cool vintage stuff:

- Flash King (from sentai series Flashman, 1986): Simple transformation, but you've got to admit that the way each jet becomes an arm and a leg is incredibly inventive (hint: it doesn't involve taking the jets apart...).

- Super Gobots Raizor and Nightfright (1985): realistic helicopters (okay, Raizor is a cross between an F-4 and a helicopter) that change into pretty well proportioned robots. See if you can figure out Raizor's transformation by only looking at the helicopter and robot modes... A lot of the later smaller Gobots are quite complicated too.

Also, Bandai /= Gundam. They might be the motor behind the franchise, but they're certainly more diverse than some people assume.

There's loads of other companies that have made and are making transforming toys, some good, some excellent, some bad, some trying-but-not-exactly succeeding. I'm not saying that Bandai is perfect (they're not), but they certainly aren't the retarded newcomers that some people here seem to think they are.

[Guest sh002]

just drop the 1/100 line and make the other scale of toys 1/72. not too large and not too small and it can still handle transformation.

after watching ep 12 I want bandai to make a qrau and sdf-1

[dizman]

Hi Graham,

I beg to differ on your last point. Not all tranforming MS are design that way

Have you seen the MG Ex-S Superior Gundam? I would consider the complexity of its transformation equal if not exceeding that of valks; and it is a gunpla, not a toy

He did say most ya know, but you are right about the Ex-S that was one crazy transformation if memory serves. Oh and most people dont want to accept someone can make cheaper valks than yamato and still have them look pretty good, denial from spending $200+ on the last few releases I suppose.

[Golden Arms]

After seeing Ep 12 of Frontier, I wonder will the bandai's have the 2nd seat option that we saw with Alto's valk. I also wonder will the come equiped with pilots as well.

No disputes wheter Bandai can make transforming toys. What some of us ponder is whether they can accurately pull of the complex transformations of Kawamori's later valkyrie designs. The sv-51, yf-21 and yf-19 are light years beyond the vf-1 series in complexity. I think they have done a good so far with what we've seen with the vf-25, but only time and the 1st production release will answer these and other questions.

[cobywan]

The problem with comparing Valks to Gundams is, frankly, not even the Zeta looks like anything in Wave Rider form. A Valk has to look like a robot in Battroid form, and look like an airplane in Fighter mode. The transfomation on the VF-25 has to be much more deliberate and carefully planned out than the usuall Gundam stuff. There's a LOT of room for slop in Gundam.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

The problem with comparing Valks to Gundams is, frankly, not even the Zeta looks like anything in Wave Rider form. A Valk has to look like a robot in Battroid form, and look like an airplane in Fighter mode. The transfomation on the VF-25 has to be much more deliberate and carefully planned out than the usuall Gundam stuff. There's a LOT of room for slop in Gundam.

Yes but the argument has once again turned into a subliminal Bandai vs Yamato debate. What we do know is that Bandai can handle diecast much better than Yamato. For the sake of not hearing fanboys incessantly bitch about this, yes its true Yamato is technically a newbie against Bandai. Can Bandai make a better valkyrie? Yes. Yet ask yourself this, when you have a company like Yamato making a 1/60 VF-1, outdo themselves with the 1/48, and then return with a new 1/60 line that outdoes both, and your reissues gather dust, why in hell would you bother making a VF-1 toy when your competition has literally left you in the dust?

Its obvious Bandai wanted to do Macross but just waited for the right time to strike. Look at all the improvements we have seen to the VF-25 prototype. The price is right, the toy is comparable in size to the 1/60 YF-19, we have hints that it has diecast which Bandai has a much better track record than Yamato, and its definitely catered to collectors. There is nothing wrong with a company other than Yamato added to the mix, so long as the quality will be good, and it definitely looks much different than Bandai's old 1/65 DX Fire Valkyrie.

[Master Dex]

And:

Excuse me, but these kind of statements make me boggle.

Bandai (well, their design office Plex) has been designing transforming toys for at least as long as Takara, including really complicated ones (already in the early 1980s). Back then, they designed tons of really complicated toys for various sentai series and (especially) Machine Robo (known as Gobots overseas).

Suggesting that they do not know how to make complex yet show-accurate transforming toys 'a la Yamato' is....inane. Especially considering what they've turned out in the Soul of Chogokin line the last couple of years. Maybe you should pick up such nice transforming toys like (only mentioning the ones I have, other people might comment on other Bandai toys):

- SoC Xabungle: about the size of a 1/144 Gundam model kit, with diecast, tons of accessories, and an accurate transformation.

- SoC Dancougar: One of the first transforming SoCs, and a really fine one. It also strikes a nice 'average' between how Danny looked in the show and the vintage toy...

- SoC Irongear: This is like a giant big cool playset, with tons of opening panels, a buttload of small PVC Walker Machines, some pretty cool accessories, and of course it transforms.

Some cool vintage stuff:

- Flash King (from sentai series Flashman, 1986): Simple transformation, but you've got to admit that the way each jet becomes an arm and a leg is incredibly inventive (hint: it doesn't involve taking the jets apart...).

- Super Gobots Raizor and Nightfright (1985): realistic helicopters (okay, Raizor is a cross between an F-4 and a helicopter) that change into pretty well proportioned robots. See if you can figure out Raizor's transformation by only looking at the helicopter and robot modes... A lot of the later smaller Gobots are quite complicated too.

Also, Bandai /= Gundam. They might be the motor behind the franchise, but they're certainly more diverse than some people assume.

There's loads of other companies that have made and are making transforming toys, some good, some excellent, some bad, some trying-but-not-exactly succeeding. I'm not saying that Bandai is perfect (they're not), but they certainly aren't the retarded newcomers that some people here seem to think they are.

Dude to needed to see the post I made after the one you quoted, I never thought Bandai couldn't do it. I was just pointing out that they could easily get tips from someone else if they needed help, but I know they don't.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Salamander,

http://www.hlj.com/product/BAN949500 IronGear

http://www.hlj.com/product/BAN911829 , http://www.hlj.com/product/SHE33039 - Dancouga

http://www.hlj.com/product/BAN932905 - Xabungle

So, is this good practice for bandai to make a valk? I just see transformers. Bulkyness. I'm still hopeful tho.

What i have seen so far with the VF-25 looks quite well done.

Edited June 30, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[wolfx]

I'm still not too happy on the proportions of battroid mode. Shoulder is too big and they don't look as sleek as I thought they should be. Armored mode will definately be affected.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I'm still not too happy on the proportions of battroid mode. Shoulder is too big and they don't look as sleek as I thought they should be. Armored mode will definately be affected.

Kawamori did request changes during the designing process of the toy, and retconned one of his own designs...so if anything blame Kawamori at this point. No one should be surprised, this is the same guy that didn't want an animation accurate tan tinted VF-0A out by Yamato because to him it was always grey.

I was just pointing out that they could easily get tips from someone else if they needed help, but I know they don't.

Thing is Takara is their main rival in Japan. Both make great toys, I'd love to see a valkyrie from Takara at some point, Masterpiece Starscream is my favorite Transformer.

Bandai is doing a good job so far, I eagerly await announcement and pics of the armored Ozma.

[Graham]

Just to clarify, my post was not meant to be anti-Bandai in anyway. I’m certainly looking forward to the 1/60 DX toys and 1/72 model kits and hope Bandai do an excellent job.

All I was saying was that Bandai may have got a bit ahead of themselves when they initially advertised the 1/100 “simple transformation” line of Frontier toys.

The VF-25 has a far more complex transformation than the VF-1 especially in the shoulder and torso area and I think it would be difficult for any company including Yamato, Bandai or Takara, to make a toy of the VF-25 with simple transformation, that is durable and looks good in all three modes in 1/100 scale, especially if they are aiming to keep the price point around the same as the HCM-Pro toys or lower.

While Bandai certainly has many years experience with transforming toys, transforming toys are not their bread and butter. As somebody aptly pointed out, there is a big difference between a Valkyrie, which when transformed actually looks like a plane and a Gundam, which when transformed generally looks like just a folded up robot.

For the person who mentioned the MG EX-S, I have personal experience with the Bandai EX-S Gundam MG kit. It has pretty bad proportions IMO and the ankle on mine snapped on the second transformation. Color me not impressed.

While Bandai has experience with transforming mecha, I still think that most of the transforming mecha they have made has been relatively simple in design with a few exceptions, such as Gunbuster. IMO Bandai doesn’t have Yamato’s level of experience with making Valkyries that look great in all three modes, especially Fighter mode.

The simple fact is that in many other mecha anime franchises, the mecha designs do not generally make a great deal of effort at making the alternate mode look good, Transformers being one of the exceptions.

People here often say look at Bandai’s SOC line for excellent engineering. I agree that the SOCs are great toys. I’ve owned many of them, but there are only a few of them, namely the above-mentioned Gunbuster and perhaps Dancouga and 1 or 2 others that have complex transformation. Most of the rest are relatively simple design wise. Somebody mentioned the recent SOC Iron Gear. While it is a great toy with lots of Gimmicks, the transformation is not exactly rocket science.

For the person who mentioned Bandai’s Super Sentai robot toys as examples of complex transformation that looks good in different modes, I’m going to take it that was meant as a joke.

Graham

[ruskiiVFaussie]

meh. I'll wait it out. I can last another 2 years if Bandai don't make good.

Edited June 30, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie