DRYL remastered DVD release

[Isamu test pilot]

HAPPY NEW YEAR, THE BEST FOR ALL

Finally my first Macross Aioboeteimasuka Memorial Box arrived today on december,31th, the last day of the 2007, well it was a long waiting but I am really happy, I love it, it is really beautiful, thanks god, now I waiting for my second one

[Keith]

Keith,

Region encoding is removed from the DVD during the process of subtitling it. There's no need to change the region of the DVD drive. Not even prior to the decrypting step(s).

H

Sweet, I'll wait for the next updated version then.

[Keith]

Yeah, I can't help but wonder how the Bodolza error made it past QC. It's so obvious too, especially once you know it's there. Shame it would probably be doo much of a pain to correct it with older footage.

It almost seems like it was intentionally done, the question is why? I'll forgive them though, since they cleverly hid whatever layer change was there.

[bandit29]

Got mine today. It is definately a double edge sword of a release. More detail, but more grain. Less blue, but all other colors are a bit more subdued as well. The problem that bothers me isn't any of that though, it's the audio on the set. While the stereo for the most part sounds great, there seem to be audio pops all through it. Maybe it's only noticable if you listen witha decent pair of earphones, but it is definately there.

Check out 9:41 seconds into the film (Misa yelling at Hikaru), and there's one of the most noticable audio oddities. More dissapointing yet still, Disc 2's audio is total trash. While it's PCM, it's totally unremastered, & sounds as bad as ADV's TV Japanese audio track. I just can't help but wonder why BV doesn't love Macross. While it doesn't do Gundam profit, it's still been good to them.

Overall, while I'm still glad I got the set, the line art materials are reakin' awesome, & probably would have cost just as much, if not more, to track down artbooks with all that material, the HD remaster definately leaves me wondering why it didn't get a full lovingly supervised treatment. Maybe I just feel spoiled by the Blade Runner remaster, but I expected a similar level of attention here. I need to compare with my FX disc next week on the audio though. I just don't remember DYRL with so many audio pops in it.

Would I buy it again if BV released it over here in the same shape with Subtitles? Yes, but more out of license support.

I didn't notice any audio popping but I'll go back and check.

Ya this release...I like it but some scenes just have too much grain. I really had to mess around with my TV settings to make it less noticeable.

I'm glad they fixed some of the animation errors. Roy VF-1S's still has a VF-1J face in the scene where he lands on the Zentradi ship...

Does Bandai Visual like window boxing? This set, the Macross Plus remaster, and the Ghost in the Shell Blu-ray/DVD set(another release that is too grainy) all are window boxed. Are the JP Gundam releases like this too?

[mriboy]

if you're talkin' about a dvd set, you can get the import dvd here.

http://www.discountanimedvd.com/detail.asp...ateName=Macross

it's encoded for region 1-5.

Thanks, just got DYRL and Zero from above site.

Mike

[Kamion]

Seems like they fixed the interlacing problem on the previous version, but some how over sharpened everything and made the "noise" worse.

[Sdf-1]

I totally dig the box otherwise but WTF's up with the grain?!?

[Keith]

It looks like the film masters for DYRL haven't been treated kindly in the last 24 years, i.e. grain.

[GGemini]

Keith,

Region encoding is removed from the DVD during the process of subtitling it. There's no need to change the region of the DVD drive. Not even prior to the decrypting step(s).

H

Hi hi,

I used Hurin's subtitles and, after playing a bit with the DVD Lab Pro (2 days, good thing there wasn't much to do @ work) I managed to make them synch in a readable way to the Remastered Version (they're still a bit off by mili-seconds in some parts)

I have the files in my computer but I need to know which ones to upload... Hurin, any ideas?

[Mercurial Morpheus]

It almost seems like it was intentionally done, the question is why? I'll forgive them though, since they cleverly hid whatever layer change was there.

I wouldn't forgive them for that just because of something like that. The shots in the last vob, so it's nowhere near the layer change. It really is inexcusable.

My guess was that someone messed up the frame order during the obviously brief digital restoration work.

[boinger]

At what point in the dryl movie is the bodolza glitch. I think you mean there's this blank spot at 1 hour 44 minutes from an exterior to a long wideview of Boldoza's fortress. This blank spot is also on the bandai non remastered. It might be fixable if someone re edited the movie.

[Keith]

it's before the external shot. During the disintegration of his inner chamber (from bottom to top), it starts with a red shot, then it goes progressively green, & finally grey.. It then cuts away to another part of the ship disintegrating, then the fully disintegrated chamber, then a splice to the begininng of that part, with it fully intact & red again.

[svenge]

Can you give an exact time (H:MM:SS) ?

[Mercurial Morpheus]

The exact time is in the middle of 1:44:26. It stays on on screen for about three or four frames.

I still need to find my non-remastered rip to compare.

If anyone can prove it's supposed to be there, I guess I'll own them a Coke.

Interestingly, yet another fansub has emerged from someone dubbing themself as Gray Phantom. It uses the HD source, and looks much better than the raw. It seems like some filters were applied as the grain seems less apparent. Though I've yet to do an outright comparison. If so, it's sad that a fan using off the shelf stuff and no budget could do what the official releaser couldn't.

I'm guessing he's around here, since it uses Hurin's subs. Though I was surprised to see the erroneous song translations of the old bootlegs in the script ("Evirus The Slayer" instead of the proper "Evil's slayer" and "Long" instead of "Lon")

Edited January 6, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[Hurin]

Pretty sure "my" subs have the Evirus error in them. It was only recently pointed out to me.

For the record, I speak not a word of Japanese. Unless you count: "hai."

[Mercurial Morpheus]

I figured as much. Nobodies perfect. I don't speak much either, so I'm going on Animeigo's word. I suppose it could be either, though the latter sounds better. I'd be happy to proofread it if need be.

On another note, I found one of my unremastered fansubs. It's not NLA's, but S^M's release. I can't really compare quality, as it's a half resolution 700mb Divx3 file (still better than the bootleg rip I initially saw it on), though it is much darker.

The good news is that it looks like the frames were repeated, not moved, as the timing seems the same. I'll have to frame by frame it to know for sure if anyone really wants to know. So I'm guessing it either swapped out some frames or added a handful. The flash is different too. It goes white, black, white in the HD, just white on the original.

EDIT (take II):

Having finally found my copy of the NLA version, I can better contrast and compare. The NLA was easily the best rip of the original DVD that I'd seen. My Millia avatar at the moment comes from it. Comparing it to the G_P release for sake of ease, as well as comparing a processed video to another processed video, I've come to these conclusions:

1 Brightness - The brightening does help, but isn't quite the godsend it's made out to be. Most of the details it makes apparent were already visible to begin with. They're just more noticeable now, and the film does look quite as dark as before. The best gain was starfields. The contrast is somewhat better, as some old shots looked a bit blown out. This is a tad double edged, as it does make some facial shadows (like the side profile of Minmay) a bit more pronounced than they might have been intended.

So it's really down to preference on that one. the remaster appears a bit more consistent.

2. Color - In the rips, this is really a dead draw in terms of vibrancy. The remaster punches the reds at times. More than I'd like. Namely the opening shot of the Macross. The red lights are dim in the old, just as bright as the whites in the HD. It's debatable on whether this is a good thing, as it really changes the look. It's obvious in Minmay's concert scene as well, as most of the new details result from punching the reds. The color corrections are nice, but the occasional blue cast wasn't that noticeable to begin with outside of shot like the afore mentioned. The brightening does tone the colors down a notch at times too. So slight edge to the HD, but the reds are questionable.

3. Progressive vs Interlaced - Here's where the HD wins hands down. Even the converted NLA displays bad artifacting. This alone practically makes it the preferable set.

4. The Soft Spots and clean up- Okay, I'm going to have to retract my levying of them against the HD. As it turns out, they're in the orginal too. Right down to the exact spots. My guess is the the sharpening and brightening just made them more obvious. A lot more obvious. They're just not as noticeable in the original. This also suggests that no new telesync was performed, and that this is merely a cleanup of the original transfer. Though I'm not expert in that area, so I have no clue whether this is a transfer problem, or a film one. All I know is that it looks downright awful, and they're unobstruction in the new version is easily the worst thing about this release. The original wins here.

The worst is the shot of Minmay at the end turning toward Misa. Has anyone else noticed the fact that the bridge behind Minmay is f*cking vibrating!? It's the nastiest video defect I've seen so far (I haven't watched it completely), and it's in both versions. It's a shame no attempt was made to correct it. I'm not even sure if it can be.

The HD is somewhat sharper looking, but the gain is inconsequential and does little but accentuate the problems in the transfer that weren't dealt with.

As for the clean-up, it's not as thorough as it could've been, as many flaws remain. Though the big ones were addressed. I happened by chance to pause at the shot of Minmay stretching her hand towards the screen right at a flash. The amount of dirt was incredible, and just awful, whereas the HD is smooth. It's really unnoticeable in movement, but a nice touch.

So really, the HD isn't all that bad. Not as bad as the RAW made it seem, and pretty good in the right hands. Nice even. It's just not as good as it could've been, and that still makes it a disappointment. You get more consistent contrast and color, plus a somewhat cleaned up image in exchange for uncontrolled grain, sharpening that does more harm than good, some questionable (your mileage may very) color boosting, and that infernal misplaced batch of frames that are just plain inexcusable.

So I really have to rate them almost about the same. Though the edge goes to the HD mostly for it's cleanup and progressive image. The loss of interlacing artifacts alone almost makes up for the laziness, and is the best improvement. Rip release wise, G_P is now the best looking under 2gigs subbed version of DYRL at the moment. This is do to it's superior encoding, with a more efficient codec versus NLA's much older release. It even dealt with the grain to little consequence otherwise, making it look better than the actual DVD.

It's an improvement, if a questionable one at times, but far from "The Holy Grail".

Edited January 6, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[boinger]

Well, I haven't finished a update of Hurin's subtitles to my version of dryl yet. Now, that I have the remastered dyrl in my hands, I was going to restart the subtitle work again. I'll see if I can get that Gray Phantom dyrl as a template.

I can fix the Bodolza video glitch with womble mpeg video editor. Take out 3-4 frames of video and then take out 3-4 frames of silent audio after that scene.

I think I can use Nero audio editor to filter out the audio pops, which I heard during the final battle. Do the audio "pops" happen on dvd players or just videolan computer software dvd players? Definitely 4 audio pops during the final battle scene.

Does anybody know about reducing the graininess in womble mpeg or through video filters? I'll see if that Gray Phantom dyrl has any better video or audio.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

I see you sniped me in the course of editing. Some of your questions are answered there. I've never used Womble before. I'd suggest doing a frame by frame comparison before just hacking it out, as it's still possible that frames are missing now due to the error. Same goes for the audio. Still, thanks for the effort.

Removing the grain should be possible. Though ideally on a scene by scene basis as it's not as bad or entire gone in some places. I've only done such on stuff for Mpeg4, and have no experience preparing an edit for DVD.

I'd suggest visiting OriginalTrilogy.com. It's a Star Wars forum dedicated to preservation projects, so you'll find a lot of info there.

As for the subs, you'd should be able to either rip the script with times, or ask in their IRC channel.

Edited January 6, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[Keith]

Well, I haven't finished a update of Hurin's subtitles to my version of dryl yet. Now, that I have the remastered dyrl in my hands, I was going to restart the subtitle work again. I'll see if I can get that Gray Phantom dyrl as a template.

I can fix the Bodolza video glitch with womble mpeg video editor. Take out 3-4 frames of video and then take out 3-4 frames of silent audio after that scene.

I think I can use Nero audio editor to filter out the audio pops, which I heard during the final battle. Do the audio "pops" happen on dvd players or just videolan computer software dvd players? Definitely 4 audio pops during the final battle scene.

Does anybody know about reducing the graininess in womble mpeg or through video filters? I'll see if that Gray Phantom dyrl has any better video or audio.

The audio pops are through the whole movie, and yes they're audible on regular DVD players. Most of them are in the left channel, but it'd probably be far more trouble than its worth to tack them on without professional tools to deal with it.

[PC Valkyrie]

Wow, haven't posted on MW for AGES.

Bought the DYRL remastered set and got it last week. Just bought a cheap regionless DVD player and enjoyed the new DVD yesterday on my 42" Plasma from a proper viewing distance. Compared to the FX bootleg DVD, this new remastered edition is SO MUCH brighter, and clearer. Many details that I could not appreciate before are very clear and bright.

And the grain that people have complained about is really not that noticeable unless you stand close to the TV. Now, I agree that the grain is much more noticeable when I view it on my laptop computer, but I'm also very close to the screen.

Also, you should note that the factory BRIGHTNESS/CONTRAST settings of a TV and computer monitor usually are too high to emphasize the "WOW" factor on initial purchase. With proper calibration (like using a THX optimizer on some commerically available DVD's), where the brighness and contrast are usually turned down significantly, I'm sure the grain that people complain about will not be as noticeable.

Don't get me wrong, the grain is still present, but it is not anywhere as bad as what people say if you watch it on a properly calibrated (for home theatre) TV and at a proper viewing distance. Overall, I think the film looks pretty darn good, especially for a 24 year old film. However, I am disappointed that they did not remix the audio to a true Dolby Digital 5.1.

Edited January 7, 2008 by PC Valkyrie

[Hurin]

it's before the external shot. During the disintegration of his inner chamber (from bottom to top), it starts with a red shot, then it goes progressively green, & finally grey.. It then cuts away to another part of the ship disintegrating, then the fully disintegrated chamber, then a splice to the begininng of that part, with it fully intact & red again.

I just watched the scene but hadn't read this description in a while. I didn't notice it. Only after I came back here, re-read this description, and watched it again did I notice what you're talking about.

Internet forums suck. I swear, half of us wouldn't be bothered by any of this stuff if we weren't constantly told what should bother us. Then again, I'm probably guilty of the same thing whenever I talk about various other topics.

H

[Hurin]

Got it. Watched a few scenes. Overall very happy with it as it's official, and has no interlacing issues as the older official release did to such a horrible extent (as discussed in my review here). I guess, other than that, my hopes weren't set very high. So, I'm not disappointed.

Those of you expecting so much more may just have to hold out for the HD version.

Will be a few days before I can start looking at the subtitling issues. Will post more at that time.

Best,

H

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Don't get me wrong, the grain is still present, but it is not anywhere as bad as what people say if you watch it on a properly calibrated (for home theatre) TV and at a proper viewing distance. Overall, I think the film looks pretty darn good, especially for a 24 year old film. However, I am disappointed that they did not remix the audio to a true Dolby Digital 5.1.

True. Though hooking my PC up to my properly calibrated digital CRT still shows the grain. Though like I said, that's the least that bothers me now. When Hurin's subs are ready, I'll see how it looks played though the DVD player (which has different settings than the VGA hookup). You're right about distance though.

I'm actually glad that they didn't remix it. Remixes almost never sound right, and some, like the new 08th MS Team remix, vastly alter the sound. Though R2s do have a better habit than R1s of including the original sound as well.

As for expectations, I grabbed the set out of curiosity, and had no expectations to raise. It just seems a bit too half assed at times, but still an ok release for the reasons you and I mentioned (namely the interlacing).

[Psylocke]

I just received my Box set from CD.Japan and have a problem.

The box has a small dent in one of the corners. I paid 130.00 US shipped and another 22 duties once it crossed the border in Canada.

Should I live with the dent or have CD.Japan send a new one and spend another 20-60 dollars after duties and sending the dented one back.

The DVD cases and books are not affected by teh dent it is just a cosmetic defect on the box.

:unsure: :unsure:

[Hurin]

I just received my Box set from CD.Japan and have a problem.

The box has a small dent in one of the corners. I paid 130.00 US shipped and another 22 duties once it crossed the border in Canada.

Should I live with the dent or have CD.Japan send a new one and spend another 20-60 dollars after duties and sending the dented one back.

The DVD cases and books are not affected by teh dent it is just a cosmetic defect on the box.

:unsure: :unsure:

That's your call, Chief.

My box is dented too. I'm happy to say that I've mellowed over the last several years and I didn't think twice about it. It's not like we're ever actually going to sell these things.

[Zinjo]

The box has a small dent in one of the corners. I paid 130.00 US shipped and another 22 duties once it crossed the border in Canada.

YIKES!!

I got mine and after the Fedex charges I just received it's gonna cost me a total $95.00 US, but I used Amazon Japan and it was a pre-order to boot (saved about 2000 yen).

You got scammed in duty charges my friend!

[Psylocke]

Yeah I did get scammed but I would do it again to feed the macross addiction.

'Hurin' It is not a matter of wanting to ever resell it (hell I still have the Laserdisc version) I like my collectors items to be in perfect shape.

I checked the CD.Japan website and noticed it says out of print so I do not think they could do anything about it anyway.

I guess I will have to just live with it.

Looking forward to your subittles by the way. When I used your first ones with My R2 disc I could not stop watching it over and over again.

:mellow: :mellow:

[ericf]

I think there's only one file out there that has the Remastered DVD as source. It's the Q-R Raw.

The G_P has absolutely no grain as it's supposed to have. I think this is a contrast boosted version of the Perfect Edition.

The Raw is positively horrible. The "grain" seems to move as if blacks are really the surface of moving water.

I haven't seen the DVD available anywhere on the net. If I could get a good taste (captures don't tell enough of a story) I would be able to decide if it's "worth" it to buy this set.

Haven't seen the M+ Remasters (DVD) but I know the KAA release looked better than my US DVDs.

Thanks for the subs, Hurin.

I seem to remember some instances where the song subs were cut short because of intersecting dialog. Mabye that could be fixed in the new sub.

The G_P sub uses ASS (Can't use that in DVD-authoring) and it's incredibly busy with all sorts of commands. Nice on screen (AVI) but of no use for a DVD script. It had some Hardcoded Karaoke too (My Boyfriend is a pilot at the beginning: 3.37) .

Thank you.

ericf

[UN Spacy]

I STILL haven't opened mine.

Mine arrived from Amazon Japan...for some strange reason I also ordered the gift wrapping.

It arrived dent or scuff free. Maybe I should just wait for Kawamori to make another AX apperance then I'll let him sign it.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

I think there's only one file out there that has the Remastered DVD as source. It's the Q-R Raw.

The G_P has absolutely no grain as it's supposed to have. I think this is a contrast boosted version of the Perfect Edition.

The Raw is positively horrible. The "grain" seems to move as if blacks are really the surface of moving water.

Not too familiar with either DVD or filtering are you? There's more to the new disc than contrast and grain. The G_P is definitely the new DVD. The color balance, presence of the corrected Max and Roy dValkyrie shots, and Bodolza glitch are all proof of that. They simple filtered the grain out.

The raw is indeed horrible.

Bakawolf released a copy. Haven't checked it yet. Animesuki finally re-added it to its list as well, years after I protested its removal.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Just watched the GP version (this group used to be called white_base I think) and I love the new subs.

No more Evirus!

Edited January 13, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Mercurial Morpheus]

They released a new version? I wonder if my comments at Boxtorrents played any part in it. They do announce it there.

[bobman]

Everyone is talking about "grain" as if it were a bad thing. I don't quite get it. Grain is a natural, and often intended part of an image captured on film. Noise is what we don't want. I did some digging and found this article to back me up:

Film Grain is not your Enemy

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Bobman, grain isn't a bad thing, but excessive grain can be. Especially in animation. The average amount can add a nice, warm look. The problem here is that it fluctuates in extremity and is just distracting.

Of somewhat related note, I took a look at the B-G version. I can safely say stay away, especially if you already have the G_P one. Judging by the font choice and layout, unless he's part of G_P, this version just outright steals the subs from he G_P version and slaps his name on it. This is made more obvious by the typesetting of the credit to MW.

Worse, the approach to grain removal is basically like taking a shotgun to a fly. It's horribly oversmoothed, and just a watery mess. Sadly, it's also the version that most people are going to download, since it's on Animesuki.

Edited January 17, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[protodeviln]

Yuppers - nothing like seeing anime decaps remastered.

p.s - thanks Hurin, very much, for the subs - fantastic.

Edited January 17, 2008 by protodeviln