The VF-5000 is pissing me off!

[Mr March]

So in the last week or more I've been coloring and writing away for the VF-5000 Star Mirage profiles. After dozens of colored pictures and several pages I decide it's finally time to sit down, collect material and build the first VF-5000B standard profile.

Then it hits me...

There doesn't appear to be a standard color scheme for the "B". I went ahead and completed the profile anyway, but I've got a weird Zolan-like color scheme currently sitting in place for the "B" variant. I've also colored the Macross Dynamite 7 "B" versions, the Macross Plus Video Game "B" colors, the VF-X2 Video Game "B" colors...but as far as I know none of these are the standard hull colors. Or, if one of those color schemes is the standard colors, I don't know which one it would be. Now, there are two color schemes for the VF-5000G version found on page 20 and 21 of Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works, but these are Zolan variants since the line art is the "G" variant with all the Zola insignia.

Current color variations:

So this is what I'm currently working with, but what does the UN Spacy mass production version of the VF-5000B look like? Anyone know?

Edited November 16, 2007 by Mr March

[Roy Focker]

Did you check these colors?

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/models.../she_vf5000.htm

This one makes it seem tan

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/models...00boxinsert.jpg

[Graham]

AFAIK, I don't think there is a standard color, per se. I'd probably go with an overall greyish-white, with a cream nose cone, and blue stripes (or whatever color stripes are appropriate for the pilot).

You can also check out these: -

Model Graphix - scroll to September 1998 issue

Hobby Japan - scroll to August 1998 issue.

Dengeki Hobby - scroll to June 1999 issue (Max & Millia versions).

Dengeki Hobby - scroll to October 1999 issue (2-tone grey splinter camo version).

I definitely wouldn't use the Zolan-ish colors as standard for the 'B' model though.

Graham

[sketchley]

There's no VF-5000B in VF-X2 (at least the Japanese release of it.)

I'd go with the M+ Game Edition colours (UN Spacy vehicle it be) and, if they are different, the ones in M3.

[Mr March]

Did you check these colors?

Whoa! Rare line art of the fighter mode; line art that's NOT in the SK Design Works book! Me want

AFAIK, I don't think there is a standard color, per se. I'd probably go with an overall greyish-white, with a cream nose cone, and blue stripes (or whatever color stripes are appropriate for the pilot).

I definitely wouldn't use the Zolan-ish colors as standard for the 'B' model though.

Damn, I was afraid of that

I like that grey-blue scheme with the cream nose. It's shown in several of the pictures you and Roy have linked. Even if that isn't the scheme, it sure is nice. And not to worry, I'm definitely canning the Zolan-esque scheme

sketchley

I didn't know that. Apparently, the North American release has the VF-5000B Star Mirage in it (see Macross Compendium Entry)

Going with the M+ colors isn't a bad idea, since it is the UNS version as you say. But then, so is the VF-X2 version. Which one to pick?

Edited November 16, 2007 by Mr March

[Graham]

There's no VF-5000B in VF-X2 (at least the Japanese release of it.)

I'd go with the M+ Game Edition colours (UN Spacy vehicle it be) and, if they are different, the ones in M3.

I beg to differ.

While the VF-5000B wasn't in the mass-market version of the game, it was in the Japanese special edition version (AKA Tokyo Snack Version), which I'm lucky enough to own an original copy of.

See: http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/news/_news_n034.htm

Graham

[Graham]

Just in case you haven't seen these yet from the Dreamcast M3 game: -

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...2162001m3_3.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazines/newm3page3.jpg

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/games/...ge11&12.jpg

I'm sure I have some other good color Dreamcast M3 lineart not somewhere that is not on MW. Have to try to dig it up at the weekend.

Graham

[Mr March]

Wow, a white and red variant for M3. And I see Max/Milia VF-4s. It's hard to tell, but the line art for the VF-4 battroid looks a lot better than the sketches in the SK Design Works book. Too bad they didn't release hard-finish line art for the VF-4 battroid in blakc and white. Would be nice to have

[Sumdumgai]

Wow, so many schemes for the VF-5000. Awesome.

The VF-5000 in M3 in those pics that Graham posted links to, really reminds me of the Hikaru VF-1J with that red stripe.

And, I forgot to add that the schemes you have up rock, Mr. March.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Sumdumgai

[eugimon]

with so many potential color schemes... why hasn't a certain toy company made this bird yet?

And I can't wait for you VF-5000 profiles to be put up mr. march!

[Mr March]

Okay, here's color pictures I've done for the SHE and M3 version that uses color reference pictures provided by Roy and Graham:

[Graham]

Very nice.

Graham

[Golden Arms]

Damn I wish there was a toy of the 5000. It seems to contain alot of design elements from earlier planes in the macross continuity.

[yellowlightman]

Just to clarify, there was no US release of Macross VF-X2 but if things had gone as planned the VF-5000 would have replaced the VF-1. There was a VF-X2 demo released in the Official Playstation Magazine, but I don't remember if featured the VF-5000 or another VF.

[Vic Mancini]

with so many potential color schemes... why hasn't a certain toy company made this bird yet?

Probably because they have bigger fish to fry for now. The 5000 isn't the most iconic or memorable design.

It is cool though. Is it safe to say it was influenced by the F-22 Raptor? I see a lot of similarities.

[badboy00z]

Anyone have pictures of the transformation sequence of the VF-5000? I'm curious to find out how it can have those big shoulders without having the wings hinged onto the "thigh"/ intakes like on the YF-19/ VF-19. The pictures on the line art are too small for me to see clearly.

[Sumdumgai]

I don't have any scans but from what I can see in the Design Works the wings are placed behind where the shoulders will swivel for gerwalk and battroid. The wings are set up more traditional like the VF-1, VF-3000, and VF-11, in that they swivel and become part of the back. Unlike the VF-1/3000/11, the arms are set straight back along the top of the fighter and rest on the legs. Half of the forearms are the block between the legs in fighter. When it transforms into battroid, those halves fold over and sandwich the vertical stabilizers.

In any case, my guess from looking at the transformation sketches, the portion that the shoulders are attached to, probably lift a short distance like the YF-19 to gerwalk, to allow the shoulders to swivel into position, then drops back down since the shoulders are now ahead of the wingroots and out, so there's no need to hold the chest portion up at an angle like the YF-19.

[Skippy438]

Just to clarify, there was no US release of Macross VF-X2 but if things had gone as planned the VF-5000 would have replaced the VF-1. There was a VF-X2 demo released in the Official Playstation Magazine, but I don't remember if featured the VF-5000 or another VF.

It has a VF-11, which makes sense because the level is fighting the Ghost over Macross City.

[Mowe]

The Red & White works for me. Great job.

[sketchley]

I stand corrected on the VF-5000B in VF-X2. However, to my defense, I own the mass market version, and there is no VF-5000B in either the "Macross VF-X2 Official Visual Guide" or the "Macross VF-X2 Perfect Official Clue Guide" books on the game.

Nevertheless, I still stand behind my opinion on the colours.

The SHE kit colours are also groovy too. (Much better than the cannon-fodder tawny of the VF-X2.)

Badboy00z: scroll up. Mr_March has posted an image with the transformation sequence. It's very small, so I'll give you a hint on the arms: they split in half, with the missile launcher part forming the section between the engine nacelles in jet mode. If you look closely, you can see the tips of the tails sticking out of the arms in battroid mode too.

[Mr March]

Sumdumgai, eugimon and Graham

Thanks for the compliments fellas. I'm looking forward to the release of these profiles as well.

yellowlightman

I knew the game was unreleased here and the Macross Compendium entry states the release as unscheduled. But I didn't know how far along the game was developed before being canned. It's a damn shame the VF-5000 is limited to such a minor release in the special edition. Most Macross fans will never have an opportunity to enjoy it.

Vic Mancini

The Macross Compendium states the VF-5000 is inspired by the Dassault Mirage 2000. Could be some YF-22/YF-23 influences in the VF-5000 but I think I see more linear influences and a dart like shape in the Star Mirage.

badboy00z and Sumdumgai again

Here's a picture of the VF-5000 Transformation Details

Mowe

Hehehe, yes it turned out well. I'm eager to see the fighter modes once I get a chance to color them.

sketchley

No problem. Given the EXTREME rarity of that release, it's understandable. I share your opinion on the default color scheme. I think I'm going to pick the Macross Plus Video Game version for the default VF-5000B profile. The colors are at least official and are the closest thing we have to a likely canon scheme.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Mr March

[Graham]

The Macross Plus Game Edition colors (see attached pics) seem very close to the SHE scheme, with the exception of the shoulders.

Graham

[Graham]

Here's some more color schemes from the Dreamcast M3 game. More scans to follow tomorrow.

Graham

[Mr March]

WHOA!

Okay, the SHE version IS the Macross Plus version! There's no mistaking it. I've got the color scheme all wrong. Well, I guess that finalizes it. Macross Plus/SHE version is THE standard hull colors that I'm gonna use for the VF-5000B.

Wow, lots of weird colors in that second picture. I suppose this means I gotta do a VF-3000 profile now

[Zinjo]

Here's some more color schemes from the Dreamcast M3 game. More scans to follow tomorrow.

Graham

LOL, poor Marchy, his head is going to explode...

[sketchley]

I think the VF-5000 can be coloured not so much going by role (as that's nigh impossible to determine with some of the games) but by era. If I'm not mistaken, M3 covers the 20's and 30's, and M+ game edition covers the mid 40's.

Though, tactically speaking, a light and dark blue paint is better than a flashy red pin striped one.

[Graham]

While not the VF-5000B, here's some more scans of colored lineart for Mr March of the color schemes other VFs featured in the M3 game.

Graham

[Graham]

Lastly, color lineart scans from the M3 instruction manual, scanned at 600dpi, which is the highest resolution my antique PC/scanner can managed without melting down.

Graham

[Vic Mancini]

Vic Mancini

The Macross Compendium states the VF-5000 is inspired by the Dassault Mirage 2000. Could be some YF-22/YF-23 influences in the VF-5000 but I think I see more linear influences and a dart like shape in the Star Mirage.

Really? The entire front half of the 5000 looks like straight Raptor to me. I don't see any similarities to the Mirage 2000 besides the Mirage name.

[eugimon]

Really? The entire front half of the 5000 looks like straight Raptor to me. I don't see any similarities to the Mirage 2000 besides the Mirage name.

I don't see it either. I always thought the vf-5000 was modeled after the mig 35:

or I guess, mig-29... since the 35 is kinda new...

Edited November 17, 2007 by eugimon

[Mr March]

Graham

Ack! You're killing me Very nice scans. I'm saving them all and I'll try out a few.

Vic Mancini

I think Kawamori (via his interview quote on the Macross Compendium) did mean just the name, Vic. Like how the name for the "VF-1 Valkyrie" was inspired by the name "XB-70 Valkyrie", so is the designation "VF-5000" inspired by the designation "Mirage 2000."

I haven't spent time studying the VF-5000 until now, so like I had written, there could be YF-22/YF-23 influences. Your picture comparison certainly shows the VF-5000 has a strong resemblance to the nose, canopy and forward fuselage of the F-22. But as I wrote, just going by overall design, the VF-5000 seems more linear and dart shaped to me than the square, diamond-like design of the F-22 Raptor. The whole fuselage of the VF-5000 is largely wing shaped in a linear triangle. I don't see many design similarities between the VF-5000 and the Mirage 2000 at all. The only noticeable trait the two share is a vaguely similar wedge shaped hull/main wing.

I wonder if the Saab-35 Draken was some inspiration for Kawamori's VF-5000. The entire wing body, from the small centrally mounted forward intakes all the way to the trailing wing edge strongly resembles the Saab-35, IMO.

eugimon

Interesting. Maybe the forward sides of the Mig-35 fuselage look similar, but I'm not seeing much else. I think Vic has the forward third of the VF-5000 influence pegged well as the F-22, IMO.

Edited November 17, 2007 by Mr March

[l_e_m]

Disregard the fuselage, and look at the planform of the proposed production model for the X-32.

Oddly enough, the X-32B is the exactly same length of 14.03m.

I believe this arrangement resembles the VF-5000 IMHO.

Edited November 17, 2007 by l_e_m

[eugimon]

eugimon

Interesting. Maybe the forward sides of the Mig-35 fuselage look similar, but I'm not seeing much else. I think Vic has the forward third of the VF-5000 influence pegged well as the F-22, IMO.

Well, I was also looking at the wings, the sweep of the vf-5000's wings remind me of the mig's (more so than the f-22 which has pretty unique diamond shaped wings) and the raised engine nacelles superficially resemble the exaggerated leading edge of the tail fins of the mig.

I'm not emotionally attached to this theory and the f-22 theory looks good, I just thought I'd further elaborate the vague similarities I saw.

[badboy00z]

I think if the F-22 Raptor could transform, it would look something like the YF-21.

[Mr March]

l_e_m

Hmm, not sure how I'm supposed to ignore the fuselage when it's the forward half and a good portion of the VF-5000 wing surface. Perhaps the actual wing itself looks somewhat similar, but overall I'm not seeing much in common with the X-32.

eugimon

I can see the main wing resemblance. The stabilizers are a stretch, but I do understand that you're talking about the silhouette of the nacelle/stabilizer combo roughly looking like the entire forward stabilizer edge of the Mig. I think it's important to recognize a few possibilities. No doubt Kawamori takes bits and pieces from various aircraft to create something new. Then he uses his own designs or may experiment. Based on his concept artwork, it's clear he plays a lot with design and is all over the place. It's very cool.

badboy00z

Hmm, not sure about this one. I will agree that the ventral fuselage of the F-22 reminds me a lot of the YF-21. It basically is a large storage bay, so if the F-22 had legs, it could certainly store them inside there