do not disturb Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Not necessarily true. It's a niche market and demand for such products might not be as high as you might think. Demand mostly comes from hardcore fans, not from casual buyers or kids. if it was a niche market without much demand, how do you explain vendors running out of stock? how do you explain the inflated prices on ebay? how do you explain yamato re-releasing so many of their valks? shadow chronicles? macross frontier? and why are other companies stepping up and grabbing the license? yamato, toynami, aoshima, CM, MH, WHAM, beagle, bandai, kaiyodo? and i'ms ure i'm leaving some out. i've heard this arguement way too many times over the years and has yet to be proven. if anything, the last 8 years or so has disproved this arguement entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Z Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 (edited) if it was a niche market without much demand, how do you explain vendors running out of stock? how do you explain the inflated prices on ebay? how do you explain yamato re-releasing so many of their valks? shadow chronicles? macross frontier? and why are other companies stepping up and grabbing the license? yamato, toynami, aoshima, CM, MH, WHAM, beagle, bandai, kaiyodo? and i'ms ure i'm leaving some out. i've heard this arguement way too many times over the years and has yet to be proven. if anything, the last 8 years or so has disproved this arguement entirely. Easy : because the runs are much smaller than for say, mainline Transformers. They issue and reissue smaller runs and that's why they can easily sell out. But the number of total units sold is nowhere as high as for mainline Transformers. If anything, the numbers are probably laughable compared to what is being produced by bigger franchises/companies. Edited February 20, 2008 by Dr. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do not disturb Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Easy : because the runs are much smaller than for say, mainline Transformers. They issue and reissue smaller runs and that's why they can easily sell out. But the number of total units sold is nowhere as high as for mainline Transformers. If anything, the numbers are probably laughable compared to what is being produced by bigger franchises/companies. do you know the production numbers of transformers? do you know the production numbers of valkyries? so moving right along, the "its a niche market" is a old and tired arguement. if it was so niche, we wouldn't have all these macross toys out and there certainly wouldn't be a new US cartoon nor a japanese one. if so so niche, if the money wasn't there, why would they even bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha OTS Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Sigh. I'm conflicted. I want a ride armor, but I want a very small scale ride armor. This is the scale I want, but the reviews on the CMS all seem to hit the same negatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggydog Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 There's no question that Macross (and Mospeada, and Robotech) is a 'niche market' compared to Transformers. You're right to point out that we don't have access to production numbers; however, we can look at some secondary bits of evidence: * transformers are carried in every walmart, target, kmart, TRU, etc. across the US - hell, even walgreens' carries them. No major US retailers carry any macross toys, to my knowledge. * the number of active english language fan sites dedicated to macross? maybe 2-3, right? * the number of active english language fan sites dedicated to transformers? I could rattle off 10 without breaking a sweat, and I'm sure there are far more. * although we're getting a new Macross TV series now, and there have been a few others (mac 7, mac+), Wikipedia tells us that there have been 15 Transformers TV series, with one every year since 2001. It's harder for us to judge the overseas (and especially Japanese) market, but I think it's fair to say that Transformers is more broadly popular than Macross in most if not all toy markets. The reason we see significant numbers of toys and even a new TV series for a 'niche market' is that Yamato (along with other companies) have discovered a way to make a tidy profit from niche markets - charge a lot of money for the toys! In this way they can cover the higher per-unit production costs and still make money. This is the great discovery of the modern toy era: adult toy buyers generally have a larger disposable income and are willing to spend a lot for collectible items. This is the basis of a lot of high-priced 'toy' lines: SOC, DMZ, Yamato Macross, etc... The fallacy of your argument is that you equate 'niche market' with 'zero market', which is not correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobotFool Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Sigh. I'm conflicted. I want a ride armor, but I want a very small scale ride armor. This is the scale I want, but the reviews on the CMS all seem to hit the same negatives. Grab one, buy a tube of superglue, and be prepared to fix the windscreen. It should be a fairly invisible fix if you apply the glue conservativly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Z Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) The fallacy of your argument is that you equate 'niche market' with 'zero market', which is not correct. Never ever said that. Niche market = much smaller market. Transformers are massively sold pretty much everywhere on the PLANET. Yamato valks (and other high-end toys from CM's, S.H.E., etc.)? In a handful of countries in limited numbers. Edited February 21, 2008 by Dr. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shun Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) just read about the delay for Megahouse's might be due to licensing problems. if that's true, it might explain why MH's is at the Toynami booth in the toy show. being affected by some licensing issue in another country, and delaying my dream toy from my favorite anime... is getting me real mad!!! And the license is for Robocrap Robotech, what has it got to do with Mospeada?!!... grrr HG is really trying hard to get fans to hate them and RT Edited February 21, 2008 by Shun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tober Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 just read about the delay for Megahouse's might be due to licensing problems. if that's true, it might explain why MH's is at the Toynami booth in the toy show. being affected by some licensing issue in another country, and delaying my dream toy from my favorite anime... is getting me real mad!!! And the license is for Robocrap Robotech, what has it got to do with Mospeada?!!... grrr HG is really trying hard to get fans to hate them and RT So they're blocking the Megahouse release but not CMs? I didn't think they had any influence within Japan anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobotFool Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 just read about the delay for Megahouse's might be due to licensing problems. if that's true, it might explain why MH's is at the Toynami booth in the toy show. A rumor of a licensing issue, and then it shows up at the toynami booth. I some how doubt its a matter of it being blocked by toynami, it seems more likely to me that toynami might be trying to inport these. Maybe even market them at the same price range they sold their 1/100 VF-1 for, as a cheaper alternative to the MP? Thats my speculation on the whole deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterryno Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 it seems more likely to me that toynami might be trying to inport these. Maybe even market them at the same price range they sold their 1/100 VF-1 for, as a cheaper alternative to the MP? Thats my speculation on the whole deal. I do hope this is the case. A cooler toy for a cheaper price. I am ALWAYS down for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) Harmony Gold doesn't have the Mospeada license in Japan, Tatsunoko does. It's possible Mega House is having problems with Tatsunoko but not Harmony Gold. In that event everywhere but Japan might get the new toy. I think the "licensing problem" is more likely not a problem at all but if Toynami is picking up the toy for distribution that means Mega House is going to have to make a lot more toys and maybe HG (through Toynami) did ask for a few tweaks... much the way Aoshima as Toynami for a few tweaks. Edited February 21, 2008 by jenius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konimon Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I also think the delay is due to an additional approval process. I still want to keep my preorders for MH vers though. Perhaps I may grab second set from toynami if the pricing is right. BTW, my CM's ride armor finally arrived. It is possibly the most delicate toy I've ever handled, but it has much better impression than product photos due to its small size. Stick's face is spot on. Diecast is minimal but the toy has quite nice feel to it. There are a few things that I noted... Thigh armor has a connector that needs to be shaved down thinner to accomodate diecast bar that holds the rear wheel. Sticks gun needs to be re-glued. Possible shave down the bottom of the butt-stock, or attach in slight angle so it won't push against the right forearm. Possibly loosen screws on ankle joints. Those pseudo-revo-joint things are too scary to handle. I have yet to break front wind shield, though not that big of a repair job if it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoducks Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 For you guys that have/had both CM figures: I was going to get both but now I may drop Rey and go with just Stick; does Rey loose to Stick or are they both worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGemini Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 from Collection DX: Lots and lots of Cyclones (or Ride Armor if you’re a Mospeada snob) coming out this year from different manufacturers. Toynami has been showing a larger scale transformable Cyclone for several years now but it has yet to see light of day. Well I can say that a large scale “Masterpiece” version by Toynami is due this summer. What is interesting and new news is Toynami is in negotiations with Beagle to produce the toy together. Beagle would release it in Japan with Toynami releasing it in the States. Both companies are deciding as I write this whether to use Beagle’s design or Toynami’s. George tells us they are very comparable to each other in form and function. But that’s not all on the horizon for Cyclones from Toynami, as you can see from the pictures the smaller scaled Mega House version will be distributed by Toynami here in the states. These will be from the same manufacturing run as the Japanese counterparts but be placed in a repacked box. Nothing will be changed except adding the Toynami logo and changing Japanese to English on the box. We were told we can expect these in the States within weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterryno Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 What is interesting and new news is Toynami is in negotiations with Beagle to produce the toy together. If this is the case......can we expect poor quality??? I would like a large scale cyclone...but not if it is a piece of $hit. But that's not all on the horizon for Cyclones from Toynami, as you can see from the pictures the smaller scaled Mega House version will be distributed by Toynami here in the states. These will be from the same manufacturing run as the Japanese counterparts but be placed in a repacked box. Nothing will be changed except adding the Toynami logo and changing Japanese to English on the box. We were told we can expect these in the States within weeks. Now this I can go with. Maybe I can get away with picking one up for say $40ish??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tober Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 What is interesting and new news is Toynami is in negotiations with Beagle to produce the toy together. Hopefully Toynami wont be involved in the manufacturing process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shun Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 (edited) For you guys that have/had both CM figures: I was going to get both but now I may drop Rey and go with just Stick; does Rey loose to Stick or are they both worth it? Stick's face is somewhat anime accurate, while Rey's face don't look anywhere near accurate. Then of cos there's the gun and forearm missiles for Stick, and 'only' the forearm beam gun and no handheld gun for Rey which makes the Rey box feel lesser. Other than these differences (and markings ), they're really the same thing. i got Rey because he's my fav character, and IMO Stick is a must if u want a Mospeada. Edited February 22, 2008 by Shun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermillion21 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 from Collection DX: Lots and lots of Cyclones (or Ride Armor if you’re a Mospeada snob) coming out this year from different manufacturers. Toynami has been showing a larger scale transformable Cyclone for several years now but it has yet to see light of day. Well I can say that a large scale “Masterpiece” version by Toynami is due this summer. What is interesting and new news is Toynami is in negotiations with Beagle to produce the toy together. Beagle would release it in Japan with Toynami releasing it in the States. Both companies are deciding as I write this whether to use Beagle’s design or Toynami’s. George tells us they are very comparable to each other in form and function. But that’s not all on the horizon for Cyclones from Toynami, as you can see from the pictures the smaller scaled Mega House version will be distributed by Toynami here in the states. These will be from the same manufacturing run as the Japanese counterparts but be placed in a repacked box. Nothing will be changed except adding the Toynami logo and changing Japanese to English on the box. We were told we can expect these in the States within weeks. Wow. I hope they decide to go with the Beagle version. Based on past experiences, Crapnami's products are S---. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baronv Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Wish Collection DX stated how much the Beagle will sell for. Anyone know? p.s. Their notes on the Voltron light-up MPC looks pretty cool. Wish they did the base with all 5 keys and I would've picked it up just for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Something stinks here. This means that Toynami is potentially looking at no less than Three different "cyclones" toys? Megahouse, Beagle and their own vaporware MPC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I hope its not the beagle. I want my high end super scaled ride armor to be uninfected by toynami. With them involved it'll take years to even see the prototype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promethuem5 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 (edited) Hmmmm... should I cancel my HLJ MH Ride Armor preorders and wait for them to come stateside? EDIT: I should probably still buy the MH releases out of spite... I still don't even own any of the Toynami 1/100s Edited February 22, 2008 by promethuem5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Something stinks here. This means that Toynami is potentially looking at no less than Three different "cyclones" toys? Megahouse, Beagle and their own vaporware MPC? I read it differently. There are only two Cyclone toys on the horizon. There's the definite Mega House toy and then EITHER Toynami's or Beagle's. The two companies are now in cahoots. Hopefully they develop a hybrid by learning from each other's designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermillion21 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 There's the definite Mega House toy and then EITHER Toynami's or Beagle's. The two companies are now in cahoots. That was my take on the news as well ..... but when Crapnami's involved .... ugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crasis Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Hmmmm... should I cancel my HLJ MH Ride Armor preorders and wait for them to come stateside? That's the same debate I'm having right now... How much cheaper would these be if released here, I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chowyunskinny Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Only way I'll get the domestic version is if they come with the sidearms and decals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I think I'm going to keep my Stig preorder for the MH and cancel my Ley and just pick him up domestically. I imagine I'll save $10 on shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danth Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Ah crap, somebody get Toynami the hell away from the beautiful Beagle. The Beagle is supposed to be my spiritual salvation. Don't laugh, you've all seen the pictures. The thing is gorgeous. The Harmony Gold taint is strong, any association can bring ruin. Twoducks: Skip Rey. I love Mospeada, I love Rey, and I love the ride armors. But the CM Rey simply doesn't work in bike mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyesonme78 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 ok.. bad news.. when toynami's involved..but who knows it may turn out good right? but i still want my mega house mospeada cyclones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermillion21 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 The Harmony Gold taint is strong, any association can bring ruin. QFT. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I can't wait for the obligatory HG/Toynami fanboy to call this kind of adverse reaction to the Toynami news as biased and unsubstantiated... you know... because we never held any toynami products and theirs is the holy grail that never fell apart. Not only do they delay their own crap, they gotta delay other company's stuff too. Gee thanks for supporting our interests... they're the best thing that ever happened to the Macross/SC/Mospeada license. can anyone else feel the cold hate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I can't wait for the obligatory HG/Toynami fanboy to call this kind of adverse reaction to the Toynami news as biased and unsubstantiated... you know... because we never held any toynami products and theirs is the holy grail that never fell apart. Not only do they delay their own crap, they gotta delay other company's stuff too. Gee thanks for supporting our interests... they're the best thing that ever happened to the Macross/SC/Mospeada license. can anyone else feel the cold hate? We should support any and all Toynami/MegaHouse and Toynami/Beagle "Cyclones" because it might mean they'll produce the Beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechaninac Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 ...The Harmony Gold taint is strong, any association can bring ruin. That would entirely depend on who is calling the shots engineering and manufacturing wise. If Beagle has the reins and Toymami's involvement amounts to nothing more than minor design input, sharing production costs, and distribution, then it would bode well for us as we could get domestic distribution of the Beagle Ride Armors with all the benefits that entails. If, on the other hand, Toymami insists on calling all the shots and assumes primary responsibility for engineering and manufacturing then we can all agree that the final product will likely be a dud... Aoshima Legioss anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterryno Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 That would entirely depend on who is calling the shots engineering and manufacturing wise. If Beagle has the reins and Toymami's involvement amounts to nothing more than minor design input, sharing production costs, and distribution, then it would bode well for us as we could get domestic distribution of the Beagle Ride Armors with all the benefits that entails. If, on the other hand, Toymami insists on calling all the shots and assumes primary responsibility for engineering and manufacturing then we can all agree that the final product will likely be a dud... Aoshima Legioss anyone? Everyday I read this news it disappoints me so. If Toynami wants to get any respect in the Macross/Mospeada community, they need to come out with somethin good. Not something that there are a few good ones and the rest are $hit. I myself have not had any problems with my 1/100 Toynami Valks. I know that there are ALOT of products out there by Toynami that are duds. I won't even begin to "support" Toynami by saying that they have good products. There are WAY too many complaint about them in order for me to do so. I just consider myself fotunate that I have not had problems. *knocks on wood, kisses lucky rabbits foot, makes sure the horse shoe above the door is standin straight, checks to make sure has 4 leaf clover* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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