Which Macross Plus Pilot do you like better?

[Roy's Blues]

I was analyzing, while watching the the M+ movie, which pilot I liked better. I wanted to know what my fellow MW members thought.

I think Guld is a better pilot, while Isamu is a more lucky one. "But luck is one of his skills" IIRC.

I bow to your decision pilot wise.

/YF-21 is the better fighter in my book.

//If there has been one of these before, may the MODS smite me down for my insolence.

///drunkin' post! hehehehe

////Quick edit: This is a popularity contest , so have FUN!

Edited October 19, 2007 by Roy's Blues

[Sumdumgai]

I feel that Isamu is the more experienced, talented pilot, who is much more willing to take chances and look death in the face while sticking out his tongue and laughing all the way.

Guld is a ticking time bomb with mental problems, repressed memories, and what not. Not to mention the whole, punch your best friend in the face, then tear off the shirt of your female friend and possibly rape her (this topic has been discussed as he did or didn't, and it's been discussed to death).

I think Isamu is the better pilot.

I think the YF-21 is the better fighter.

I think both pilots are a**holes, and I'm glad I don't know anyone like them in real life.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

You pretty sum up what i feel already Sumdumgai. Perfectly infact.

... the 21 was the better fighter, Isamu was the better piot, with both pilots possesing freakish skill, but Isamu willing to die for that extra % move to get him ahead.

I chose Guld though, i don't believe he raped Myung, he just lost it, and imo it was his Zentran blood.

Problems aside, he was genuine to the end. Isamu didn't posses this kind of character, not that i fault him for that.

Guld cut loose with that limiter cut, and imo that's one of the if not THE most memoriable moment of all Macross for me.

Edited October 19, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie

[Justiciar]

Sorry, he raped her, plain and simple. You don't need to be shown the scene explicitly to know that's what happened.

There aren't enough choices in the poll to warrant a vote. I like Isamu, as a pilot, better than Guld (Guld, while talented, is also a cheating PoS). I like the YF-21 in fighter mode best, but it's a pretty lame looking battroid. The YF-19 battroid is very cool.

[JB0]

I vote Sharon.

Hey, she flew the Macross(and maybe the Ghost).

[Roy Focker]

I voted for Isamu. As I just don't trust a man who wears earings.

[Jeremy007]

isamu all the way. he did not have to cheat in order to win.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Sorry, he raped her, plain and simple. You don't need to be shown the scene explicitly to know that's what happened.

There aren't enough choices in the poll to warrant a vote. I like Isamu, as a pilot, better than Guld (Guld, while talented, is also a cheating PoS). I like the YF-21 in fighter mode best, but it's a pretty lame looking battroid. The YF-19 battroid is very cool.

So plain and simple... i see, IYO. IMO, the scene was left open to both possibilities, kinda like those who want it in there

and those who don't want it in there (the raping part). Cheat he may be (only a couple of occassions) but it was

SW 1 all over again with those two (but especially Guld holding most of the grudge) having at it competing in a race

to be the best. Don't need to sh^t stir in this thread as Sumdumgai already said this "she got raped/she just got her

shirt ripped" debate has been over-debated. Guld's a bloody strong lad, he threw her to the ground ripping her shirt

to shreds in doing so, but here's something for you to swallow, i believe he was gonna choke the little tart to death

from him catching her with Isamu together, not to rape her. How's that taste?

Guld and Isamu were best mates, but in the end, some tart comes into play and ruins everything. Guld was genuine.

Edited October 19, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie

[bigkid24]

What was so great about Guld as a pilot? He flew the YF-21 with his mind. You could have put anyone into the valkyrie and Joe Blow would have done just as well as him. The computer showed him the trajectory to take when the missiles were coming at him.

[Mr March]

Well, the fact that Isamu is great and Guld nearly matched him in every way tells me all I need to know about Guld's considerable skill as a pilot. The rest of his performance in Macross Plus is just an added bonus.

I've always been torn between the two pilots as far as a favorite. Guld is a very complex and sympathetic character dramatically, but Isamu is very charming and likable. I'd proably go with Isamu in the end because he's the most likable and least screwed up of all the characters in Macross Plus, with the exception maybe of Lucy or Millard

[Exsedol]

Sorry, he raped her, plain and simple. You don't need to be shown the scene explicitly to know that's what happened.

He didn't rape her. He just got to rough and smacked her.

[Justiciar]

I'm not stirring anything, I'm simply stating the facts. That's your business if you chose to be offended by it. The fact of the matter is that anybody who knows anything about filmography and story-telling knows that Guld raped her. And if you knew anything about psychology you know that Guld raped her. How's that taste. What, don't like the tone?

And I like how you try to defend Guld for cheating, since it was only a couple of times. That makes all the difference in the world, really. You either have integrity or you don't. Guld doesn't.

All three of them were best friends, so I don't know where you get this "some tart comes in" nonsense. Nice how you try to make the victim be the problem. You don't have that sort of long-term psychological damage from being smacked once or twice. The beast raped her.

And let's be clear: I said my piece without calling anyone out or shoving it down anyone's throat. You decided to make it personal. Grow up.

/edit for spelling

So plain and simple... i see, IYO. IMO, the scene was left open to both possibilities, kinda like those who want it in there

and those who don't want it in there (the raping part). Cheat he may be (only a couple of occassions) but it was

SW 1 all over again with those two (but especially Guld holding most of the grudge) having at it competing in a race

to be the best. Don't need to sh^t stir in this thread as Sumdumgai already said this "she got raped/she just got her

shirt ripped" debate has been over-debated. Guld's a bloody strong lad, he threw her to the ground ripping her shirt

to shreds in doing so, but here's something for you to swallow, i believe he was gonna choke the little tart to death

from him catching her with Isamu together, not to rape her. How's that taste?

Guld and Isamu were best mates, but in the end, some tart comes into play and ruins everything. Guld was genuine.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Justiciar

[Sumdumgai]

Isamu was there, and I doubt he was knocked unconscious by that punch. I don't think Guld had the time to rape her before Isamu would have gotten back up and laid into him with his fists. Bringing Psychology into it, what makes you think he raped her?

That scene is very open to interpretation. It's not like the ending to Jin-roh.

You are stating your opinion as facts Justiciar.

[Warmaker]

There needs to be a 3rd option.

"Neither"

Both are Douchebags, but Isamu just tries harder at being one

[jenius]

As both are clearly douche bags I would definitely go with Sharon. Piloting the SDF-1 whilst piloting a Ghost so superbly TWO fighters could barely compete before one went all suicidal redemption on it was impressive.

On the rape, I think it's left intentionally vague as well. He certainly did SOMETHING, likely more than we saw, but how far along and how horrible it got is just better left unsaid, that's a dramatic device. Macross has a lot of "open to interpretation" moments. What I don't get is where anyone could find Isamu "likeable." I think he could have been made likeable if the series was longer but I didn't see it in what we got. A punk who pretty much always gets what he wants whereas Guld is the person who constantly wants more than he has (or, more specifically, what Isamu has).

[Vic Mancini]

What I don't get is where anyone could find Isamu "likeable."

Isamu is my favorite character in Macross.

[Exsedol]

I'm not stirring anything, I'm simply stating the facts. That's your business if you chose to be offended by it. The fact of the matter is that anybody who knows anything about filmography and story-telling knows that Guld raped her. And if you knew anything about psychology you know that Guld raped her. How's that taste. What, don't like the tone?

That's not the fact of the matter. Do you know what rape is? Smacking someone and tearing their shirt is NOT rape. That's assault. The closest any character has been to being raped was when Akiko got Meylene drunk and tried to molest her. And that wouldn't have even been rape since there would have been no intercourse so it was just sexual molestation of a minor lol

Edited October 20, 2007 by Exsedol

[Roy Focker]

That's not the fact of the matter. Do you know what rape is? Smacking someone and tearing their shirt is NOT rape. That's assault. The closest any character has been to being raped was when Akiko got Meylene drunk and tried to molest her. And that wouldn't have even been rape since there would have been to intercourse so it was just sexual molestation of a minor lol

Hey guys I agree that a the suggested rape is possible but guess what?

The topic was about who was the better pilot. Get back on subject.

Please don't start a topic of whether it was rape or not. We had that topic before. I don't have the energy to moderate another one like that in the near future.

[Roy Focker]

That's not the fact of the matter. Do you know what rape is? Smacking someone and tearing their shirt is NOT rape. That's assault. The closest any character has been to being raped was when Akiko got Meylene drunk and tried to molest her. And that wouldn't have even been rape since there would have been to intercourse so it was just sexual molestation of a minor lol

Hey guys I agree that a the suggested rape is possible but guess what?

The topic was about who was the better pilot. Get back on subject.

Please don't start a topic of whether it was rape or not. We had that topic before. I don't have the energy to moderate another one like that in the near future.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

I'm not stirring anything, I'm simply stating the facts. That's your business if you chose to be offended by it. The fact of the matter is that anybody who knows anything about filmography and story-telling knows that Guld raped her. And if you knew anything about psychology you know that Guld raped her. How's that taste. What, don't like the tone?

And I like how you try to defend Guld for cheating, since it was only a couple of times. That makes all the difference in the world, really. You either have integrity or you don't. Guld doesn't.

All three of them were best friends, so I don't know where you get this "some tart comes in" nonsense. Nice how you try to make the victim be the problem. You don't have that sort of long-term psychological damage from being smacked once or twice. The beast raped her.

And let's be clear: I said my piece without calling anyone out or shoving it down anyone's throat. You decided to make it personal. Grow up.

/edit for spelling

ah ah ahhh struck a nerve, i'm sorry, i guess you don't like stuff being shoved down your throat either.

Sorry mods.

[Lonewolf]

I like Isamu better plain and simple.

[Sumdumgai]

Roger that, Roy Focker.

Actually, I would cast my vote on Sharon Apple instead. She can sing, she can fly, she can hypnotize people, and she's got multiple hot virtual bodies. That sure beats the hell out of Isamu, Guld, and if you want a comparison on singing and flying, Basara.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Sharon was more of a cheat, she had knowledge of everything at her fingertips, and quite possibly made the Ghost fighter

a hell of alot better than it was first meant to be. Agree, Sharon+AI/RI > Everything.

[Noyhauser]

I like guld more, and depending on how much better the 21 was over the 19, I think he's at least a better tactitan, maybe not as good pure skill pilot as Isamu. In the end fight with Isamu, he controls the initiative, Methodically dismantling the 19 weapon system by weapon system. Watch it, gunpod, missles, and head laser. He then culiminates by firing one massive missile barrage that for any normal pilot should have been fatal.

Now maybe Isamu was not going 100% against Guld because of his feelings for him, but Guld did put him into a place where his fighter was inferior.

[Isamu test pilot]

Hi everyone

Of curse Isamu is the best pilot in M+..

Gould is a really good pilot, but for Isamu is natural to be a pilot, he can draw a Dynobird, he really, I mean really enjoy and love fly and if you remember the fist OVA when Isamu is fighting the Zentrans, he looks very very bored because for him is too easy

[JB0]

What was so great about Guld as a pilot? He flew the YF-21 with his mind. You could have put anyone into the valkyrie and Joe Blow would have done just as well as him. The computer showed him the trajectory to take when the missiles were coming at him.

Actually, Joe Blow wouldn't have done as well.

The computer gave Guld more information than normal VFs are capable of, but it was still up to Guld to process that information, consider his vehicle's and body's limitations, and then choose the best course of action... which is admittedly NOT flying INTO the cloud of missiles, regardless of the trajectory probability cones.

Edited October 21, 2007 by JB0

[Legioss]

Guld is a dick but he's the better pilot.

[HG Blows]

Isamu, easy. He actually had to use his mind and body to pilot the 19. Guld just shoots thoughts into the 21 and it does all the work for him. Plus I cant forgive that mullet in a ponytail haircut he has going.

[JB0]

Isamu, easy. He actually had to use his mind and body to pilot the 19. Guld just shoots thoughts into the 21 and it does all the work for him. Plus I cant forgive that mullet in a ponytail haircut he has going.

Ummm.... Guld DID use his mind to pilot the YF-21.

And his body, to the extent that he had to remain conscious and NOT jerk into a stray switch during high-G maneuvers.

Isamu just slapped a bunch of levers and buttons and the YF-19 did all the work for him.

[Kurisama]

I voted for Isamu. As I just don't trust a man who wears earings.

I concur.

[eugimon]

non rapist FTW

[Uxi]

Isamu had greater raw talent while Guld was more disciplined.

Isamu was egotistical individual while Guld was a team player.

Easily lopsided in favor of Guld. Then we learn that while Isamu was reckless, Guld has been fighting his Zentraedi instincts and the drugs may or may not be further affecting it.

Even so, its easy to prefer Guld all the way through Plus until it's flipped on us at the very end with the flashback, though Guld nicely redeems himself with his sacrifice. If I was going into a fight, I'd much rather have Guld on my wing, but Isamu is the ace you want in my Macross story. Voted Isamu, by a hair.

[RichterX]

I like Isamu, he has many skills, luck is just one of them.

[Ishimaru]

I like him cause he tends to have some of Roy's personalities.

Acting drunk, picking on chicks, kicking ass without knowing what your doing.

The choice is obvious.

[miriya]

Roger that, Roy Focker.

Actually, I would cast my vote on Sharon Apple instead. She can sing, she can fly, she can hypnotize people, and she's got multiple hot virtual bodies. That sure beats the hell out of Isamu, Guld, and if you want a comparison on singing and flying, Basara.

I second Sumdumgai on that, I go for Sharon. I like half zentraedi folk for sure but this guy had a nasty anger problem and he was a rapist which I just do not like. sure he finally regretted it and tried to make good but just a bit creepy for me. Dont get me wrong I do like his character and do think he had some redeeming qualities. I liked that he meditated and had such amazing mental control. Sure it went out of control and that screwed things up more than once but an interesting guy none the less.

Edited November 13, 2007 by miriya