VA-14

[Mr March]

I'm looking for a high resolution scan of both the Battroid and Fighter mode of the VA-14 (really high, so I can make a custom color picture and size it down to the sizes featured on my website). NOTE: this is not the VF-14 seen in the Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works book that was redrawn for the Macross M3 game. This is the VA-14 that I need, the same pictures seen here (only needed in much higher resolution):

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/macross7/va-14.htm

[Mr March]

No luck, huh?

How about this then; does anyone know from what book those two pictures were taken?

[Sumdumgai]

A shot in the dark because I don't own it, but it might be in the Shoji Kawamori Design Works book. It has a sample of every valkyrie in fighter mode including the VF-0 and SV-51, except the VA-14. However in the few sample pages I have saved, it shows the rough sketches and concept designs of other valkyries, so it could be there.

[miriya]

What is the VA-14 from?

[azrael]

What is the VA-14 from?

M7...sorta. The VA-14 served as the VF for which the Az-130 Panzerzorene was based on. As far as I know, the images that we use for the VA-14 were taken from a magazine scan. And we are talking about a scan that was done about 10 years ago.

[miriya]

I have not seen Macross 7 yet. So it is from that OVA or the Movie version?

[azrael]

I have not seen Macross 7 yet. So it is from that OVA or the Movie version?

Neither. We never see a VA-14. All we know is that the Az-130 is based off the VA-14 from production notes.

[cwmodels]

That artwork was taken from an old issue of B-Club Magazine.

A model kit of it also appeared in this issue of Model Graphix.

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...el_graphix1.jpg

[Mr March]

A shot in the dark because I don't own it, but it might be in the Shoji Kawamori Design Works book. It has a sample of every valkyrie in fighter mode including the VF-0 and SV-51, except the VA-14. However in the few sample pages I have saved, it shows the rough sketches and concept designs of other valkyries, so it could be there.

I have the book and sadly it's not there. You're right that there is a large number of design sketches in the SKMDW book, but not this fella

As far as I know, the images that we use for the VA-14 were taken from a magazine scan. And we are talking about a scan that was done about 10 years ago.

Ouch. That's what I was afraid of.

I have not seen Macross 7 yet. So it is from that OVA or the Movie version?

Kinda difficult to say. As azrael has said, we technically never see the VA-14.

There is a craft both in the Macross Plus OVA episode 3 (behind a scene with Yang Newman catching Isamu's helmet) and in a flashback sequence in Macross 7 episode 32 ("Macross 7 Plus", time index 25:57) that appears to the craft that is in the sketches seen on the MAHQ (in my link above). The craft looks like a black UN Spacy version of the Fz-109 Elgerzorene fighters (obviously BEFORE the Varauta started building the Fz-109). I believe this black fighter has been designated the VF-14, but the VF-14 PRE-Macross M3 (the video game where the VF-14 appears, but in a very different design). Since there are technically two versions of the VF-14, I'm using the "A" designator to help differentiate the two fighters so people aren't confused by my request (and because the MAHQ designates the line art I'm looking for as the VA-14).

Edited October 17, 2007 by Mr March

[Mr March]

That artwork was taken from an old issue of B-Club Magazine.

A model kit of it also appeared in this issue of Model Graphix.

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...el_graphix1.jpg

Well, that does help narrow it down some. I'm going to assume you don't know the particular magazine number? Thanks for the help in any case.

[charger69]

As Mr.March mentioned, I think we saw VA-14, in Macross 7 Plus (short episode after the episode 32) we saw VA-14 for some seconds...Where the Macross 13 fighters (VA-14's) lands the Varauta...

Edited October 17, 2007 by charger69

[Sumdumgai]

Damn, the VA-14 is an interesting design, it's too bad it isn't in the SKMDW book or the Macross Mecha Designs book. The variable black bird.

If I ever run across any high resolution scans of the VA-14 I'll be sure to send them to you.

addition: After Episode 32 in M7+, they are VF-14s. You hear over the radio "bui efu jyu yon hasshin"/"VF-14 launching" when the VF-14s are launching from the ships.

Edited October 17, 2007 by Sumdumgai

[Mr March]

Thanks sumdumgai, especially for that translation. I had known from discussions on Macross World (years ago) that this black fighter was the VF-14 pre-M3-redesign, but it's really cool to hear that it's officially canon in the Macross 7 series. I'm making a note of this translation chatter for the entry.

[Sumdumgai]

No problem Mr March. I went back to rewatch that M7+ episode to make sure I remembered right that it was the VF-14, when they actually said it.

[Roy Focker]

I could have sworn it was in one of my books but I can't find it.

[sketchley]

There is a craft both in the Macross Plus OVA episode 3 (behind a scene with Yang Newman catching Isamu's helmet)

This has been brought up previously. I believe Egan Loo has gone on record saying this: those VFs have not been identified by Kawamori Shouji.

Given the production timeline and when the VA-14 was designed, I feel that they are most likely the VF-4.

My opinion on the other hand is that they should be the VA-14 (given when the VA-14 and VF-14 were produced in the Macross Timeline), and at best, are probably early rough designs of the VA-14.

If memory serves, the Macross 7 Plus episode came tacked onto one of the VHS tapes in the later 1/3 of the series. 32 sounds about right (32/4=8. The 8th VHS release.) It's the episode where we see the Protodevlin awakened, Gigil and Iwaano Gepurunicchi possessed, the rear lower hangar of the Bolognese frigate in use, the VA-14 in both fighter and battroid modes, and an unidentified APC behind all the troops in the caverns. It was a very interesting episode!

[Mr March]

I found the issue number! B-Club Issue #124 March 1996!

Anyone got it? Huh? Anyone? Bueller...Bueller?

Edited October 18, 2007 by Mr March

[Mr March]

Wow. I've no choice but to go with the official word from Egan in that case, but I just have to say I find that very odd. If the black aircraft in Macross Plus OVA episode 3 isn't a VA-14, it sure is a dead ringer for one. Not only is it black just like in the Macross 7 Plus section of episode 32, but it has the same hull shape, the same multi-panel cockpit, the same over/under engine nacelle shapes and the same rear stabilizers at the exact same cant. It sure looks like the VA-14. Check it out:

[azrael]

A model kit of it also appeared in this issue of Model Graphix.

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...el_graphix1.jpg

That issue uses the M7+ version of the VF-14 (is also labeled). I have that issue.

[Sumdumgai]

It does look like a VA-14 doesn't it.

I want to know what that white one to the left is. It has an interesting design.

[chrono]

Mr March,

Only differences that I can see is the lack of tip cannon that the VF has. But with the incredible closeness to the Fz-109A (pg 153 Design Works not the refined version of the A) that the 14 design has it's only difference (from this angle) is a slightly canopy difference and the lack of engine cannons, that looks to be the clear type, which tells me only that it's a 14 or Fz.

Where in the Macross time line does this M+ episode take place?? That would help some or further confuse the issue! lol!

@Sumdumgai, an early VF-19 I'd hazard, but the canopy is flat out VF-17! :\

[azrael]

The VFs in the M+ ep. 3 pic look like VF-14s. From description of the VA-14 (linky), the frame and bulk is greater than the VF-14. There is also a redesigned wing. The Az-130 seems to correspond to this. Those pictured don't appear to have the bulk that is described. They look like a what we've seen and correspond to the VF-14. So, my point to this is, we've never really seen a VA-14.

[yellowlightman]

I found the issue number! B-Club Issue #124 March 1996!

Anyone got it? Huh? Anyone? Bueller...Bueller?

A quick look on Yahoo.jp's auctions didnt turn up that issue. Might be worth contacting some of the guys on here who specialize in finding Japanese merchandise?

[Sumdumgai]

I'm willing to bet that the white aircraft isn't an early 19 mockup, but rather any one of the other variable fighters that's listed on the Macross Compendium without a readable entry. Like a VF-16 or one of the other ones.

[Noyhauser]

^ Its not perfect, but I think the photo matches this one better.

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/advvalk/vf-t-11.htm

Moreover it looks to me that the other one seems to be a refined version of this:

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/advvalk/v-br-2.htm

Both are from advanced valkyrie chronicles, which M+ is based on.

[Mr March]

Mr March,

Where in the Macross time line does this M+ episode take place?? That would help some or further confuse the issue! lol!

All of Macross Plus takes place in 2040 according to the anime and the Macross Compendium.

The VFs in the M+ ep. 3 pic look like VF-14s. From description of the VA-14 (linky), the frame and bulk is greater than the VF-14. There is also a redesigned wing. The Az-130 seems to correspond to this. Those pictured don't appear to have the bulk that is described. They look like a what we've seen and correspond to the VF-14. So, my point to this is, we've never really seen a VA-14.

I meant to say the Macross Plus OVA Ep 3 aircraft looks like the VF-14 from Macross 7 Plus Episode 32. It could be the VF-14 Macross M3 Video Game version, but it's hard to tell for sure. I agree that the VA-14 is likely the percursor to the Panzerzorene and that we've never seen it.

A quick look on Yahoo.jp's auctions didnt turn up that issue. Might be worth contacting some of the guys on here who specialize in finding Japanese merchandise?

Yeah, a very good idea. I'll post a "Wanted" thread. I just hope the information is correct, otherwise I could be purchasing a magazine without any Macross in it

[chrono]

All of Macross Plus takes place in 2040 according to the anime and the Macross Compendium.

Well then. Since this image is 2 years after the M7 fleet left earth (2038) and the M7 series official starts in 2045 that would give you an additional 3 years of prototype testing. Plenty of time for variants to pop up and designs to become finalized.

I could easily label the plane the VA/F-14, but since 4+ different designs came out of the root design (VF-4 > Fz-109A-F > VF-14) I can only call this one an undesignated prototype due to lack of evidence. If it had the engine cannons visible then I'd label it a VF-14. For it to be a VA-14 it would need the panel that's near the peak of the engines front nacelle to be present.

[cwmodels]

Well, that does help narrow it down some. I'm going to assume you don't know the particular magazine number? Thanks for the help in any case.

Don't remember, but those 2 scans are the only artwork for it that appeared in that issue of B-Club. So if you do track it down, it wouldn't be much more useful. As far as I know, those are the only 2 known sketches for the design.

[Mr March]

Don't remember, but those 2 scans are the only artwork for it that appeared in that issue of B-Club. So if you do track it down, it wouldn't be much more useful. As far as I know, those are the only 2 known sketches for the design.

That's okay, I think it's been narrowed down to issue #124, as detailed in the replies above. I know the two sketches are all that exist of this early VF-14, but those are what I need. I need high resolution scans of those 2 sketches if I'm going to color them and add them to my website. Thanks for your help.

[azrael]

I agree that the VA-14 is likely the percursor to the Panzerzorene and that we've never seen it.

The VA-14 is listed as the precursor to the Az-130 so it's not "likely"; it is. And I won't be surprised if the silhouette of a VA-14 is almost identical to the silhouette of a Az-130. Shape of the wings, size of the engines, etc.

[Mr March]

Found a picture of the magazine cover online:

The VA-14 is listed as the precursor to the Az-130 so it's not "likely"; it is. And I won't be surprised if the silhouette of a VA-14 is almost identical to the silhouette of a Az-130. Shape of the wings, size of the engines, etc.

Indeed. Good stuff to know.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Mr March

[mikeszekely]

We're talking about the black one under the helmet, right? The perspective is kind of weird, like the front is shortened and the back stretched, but ultimately I think it looks more like a VF-4 than a VF-14 or a VA-14. You can't see a lot of cockpit detail, but you can see the inward-canted vertical stabilizer off the port nacelle, the rest of the port wing coming off the nacelle, and if you look carefully, you can see that the other thing sticking out of the fuselage is too far port to be the starboard stabilizer, so it must be a port canard.

[Sumdumgai]

To me it looks like the stabilizers are angled in too far to be a VF-4. The VF-4's vertical stabilizers don't cant in at such a steep angle. I figure that the thing behind the cockpit could be the stabilizer due to the perspective being weird. It may not necessarily be a VF-14, but I'm fairly certain it's not the VF-4. Besides it seems too large.

[Mr March]

It definitely doesn't look like a VF-4, IMO. The craft under the helmet has no canards, no ventral rear stabilizers, no dorsal cannons on the forward nacelles, no dorsal/ventral missile recesses, it has what looks like a UNS kite on the outer dorsal nacelle that the VF-4 does not have and to state the obvious, it's colored black. And besides, if it was a VF-4, Kawamori wouldn't have declared the craft as unidentified

[sketchley]

To add fuel to the "it's not the VF-4" side:

Egan Loo has dropped a hint or two that Kawamori San doesn't hold the VF-4 in that high a regard. I may be reading too much into what could have been a misphrased sentence. Nevertheless, given the lack of the VF-4's appearance overall in Macross...