The Transformers 2 Thread--A Michael Bay thread

[Twoducks]

And I say, "There's always a bunch of people who think shitty movies are great. We call them morons." as an example of how Fit For Natalie's argument is stupid. "A bunch of people like something! That means it's great!" That's a stupid argument.

...

So a guy DEgeneralizes another guys "FANS always get shafted" rant saying that there are OTHER FANS that are very happy (in other words: you don't need to hate XX to be a fan of XY) and then you pull a bigger generalization to say that what he’s saying is stupid...

Guess you were so eager to call something stupid that you didn't understand what Fit was talking about.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Twoducks

[eugimon]

Maybe you should take your head out of your ass and see just how stupid the, "you know... a lot of people think this way..." argument is.

whatever man, maybe you should try stating your opinion without putting other people down. On the other hand, I'm glad to see that bullies like you moved on to the internet instead of picking on little kids. What's the matter, didn't steal enough candy from the neighborhood kids yesterday?

Edited November 2, 2007 by eugimon

[eugimon]

It's interesting to see so many people on here stand up for the movie. It feels kind of weird hearing this on a forum where they cut Robotech to shreds since it is nothing like the original Macross. I haven't met one old school fan yet who dug it, or for that matter who dug beast wars or any of the crap outside of G1. I'm not going to say it wasn't a fun popcorn flick but I will go out on a limb and say it wasn't that good of a movie.

I work in VFX and most of Bay's excuses for why the characters wouldn't use old school designs seemed like a hundred other things I've heard before. Pretty much just an excuse for him to have more say and control as a director. In the buildup to the movie I loved how many times he went back on things he said Like "mass shifting doesn't have a place in my film", then there was the allspark, all the weaponry and arm cannons that appear from nowhere, Frenzy growing a whole new body. Another one was "The reason the characters are being redesigned is because they won't work on film", well from what I saw it was hard to tell where any of his characters began and ended, you could hardly tell one apart from another and it made some of the action shots unwatchable. Then to top it off his "people" leaked word out a couple weeks before release that "Hasbro didn't want Bay to use the original designs because they were worried that the movie would ruin them for people". Nice way of trying to rewrite history, although I'd almost believe that statement. Hey he said it was would be true to Transformers and I guess I can see where he was coming from. He thought the horrible little film he did called Pearl Harbor was actually pretty close to the event it was supposed to depict. I thought it was closer to a Jerry Springer episode mixed with battle scenes and and 360 rotations of every actor cut to bad pop music. Either way, I will just continue to hope he has a minor stroke before the next film is in production and they have to hand it off to someone who could do it justice like Cameron or Spielberg. Just because a film makes a lot of money doesn't mean it's good. Look at episode 1.

See, I can enjoy somthing, even if I don't like the person who did it. Like Polanski films, I think he should be in jail, but I can still appreciate his movies. Just like I think Bay is an ADD suffering egotist but I still found transformers to be enjoyable. And it's too bad that some people can't get over their absurd fascination/hatred about Bay. But if you all hate the movie and him so much, you don't need to chime in every three posts to circle jerk about how much you hate him and you don't need to pile on top of people who just don't care about this stuff as much as others. In the end, it had big explosions and violence a little humor and a cute girl. Honestly, i don't expect more from a summer popcorn flick.

It's called reasonable expectations.

[David Hingtgen]

VF5SS, knock it off. Make your arguments without demeaning people who don't agree with you.

[Fit For Natalie]

Now you guys are acting like morons. This guy says,

And I say, "There's always a bunch of people who think shitty movies are great. We call them morons." as an example of how Fit For Natalie's argument is stupid. "A bunch of people like something! That means it's great!" That's a stupid argument.

What Golden Arms said was:

How many comic book, and video game movies need to be made and suck for the fans to finally realize Hollywood is never gonna make the film that the fans truely crave.

He said 'fans' as apparently referring to all fans. I countered with the fact not all fans hated this movie and it did not suck for them. Tell me, how is that argument 'stupid'? You must have misunderstood.

It's interesting to see so many people on here stand up for the movie. It feels kind of weird hearing this on a forum where they cut Robotech to shreds since it is nothing like the original Macross. I haven't met one old school fan yet who dug it, or for that matter who dug beast wars or any of the crap outside of G1. I'm not going to say it wasn't a fun popcorn flick but I will go out on a limb and say it wasn't that good of a movie.

I work in VFX and most of Bay's excuses for why the characters wouldn't use old school designs seemed like a hundred other things I've heard before. Pretty much just an excuse for him to have more say and control as a director. In the buildup to the movie I loved how many times he went back on things he said Like "mass shifting doesn't have a place in my film", then there was the allspark, all the weaponry and arm cannons that appear from nowhere, Frenzy growing a whole new body. Another one was "The reason the characters are being redesigned is because they won't work on film", well from what I saw it was hard to tell where any of his characters began and ended, you could hardly tell one apart from another and it made some of the action shots unwatchable. Then to top it off his "people" leaked word out a couple weeks before release that "Hasbro didn't want Bay to use the original designs because they were worried that the movie would ruin them for people". Nice way of trying to rewrite history, although I'd almost believe that statement. Hey he said it was would be true to Transformers and I guess I can see where he was coming from. He thought the horrible little film he did called Pearl Harbor was actually pretty close to the event it was supposed to depict. I thought it was closer to a Jerry Springer episode mixed with battle scenes and and 360 rotations of every actor cut to bad pop music. Either way, I will just continue to hope he has a minor stroke before the next film is in production and they have to hand it off to someone who could do it justice like Cameron or Spielberg. Just because a film makes a lot of money doesn't mean it's good. Look at episode 1.

Eh, I've nothing to say to the rest, because I am well aware of the limitations of the movie, its many faults, Bay's arrogance and general assholism, the various claims to the contrary and mistakes in the film (which I've been mocking lately), yet I can still enjoy it. As for changed styles - Transformers is ever-evolving, that's how it is generally the top western robot franchise and how it manages to avoid the stagnation of the later years of Generation 1 when the fad started to die out. It's not that well known if one hasn't paid attention, but Transformers has been doing very well for the past 6 or so years with this strategy.

(If I understand you correctly, I assume mean you've not met a single G1 fan who likes anything outside of G1) it appears you've not hung around one of the major Transformers boards or been to a convention, because there are plenty of 'old school fans' who liked the movie, loved Beast Wars and love other non-G1 TF series. Hell, I am an 'old school fan'. Beast Wars is considered one of the finest Transformers fictions ever made and paradoxically the future of G1... and its beginning.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Fit For Natalie

[Uxi]

It was a decent giant robot movie but wasn't a very good Transformers movie.

[David Hingtgen]

If anyone really hates Beast Wars I don't know what to say---it's got one of the better storylines out there *period* IMHO, and is by far the best TF story out there.

It's kind of like saying "I hate ST:TNG and DS9 because they're not TOS". Umm, well, it's hard to argue that TOS had better stories and plots. You may hate the setting and look, but for raw character development, stories, etc---TNG and DS9 blow away the original.

[big F]

Quit the flaming or this thread wil get locked.

Everyone is entitled to thier own opinion, and not everyone here is able to ariculate their opinions in a manner that can be understood by everyone.

also bear in mind that there are non native english speakers here too, so through no fault of their own they may not get their P.O.V across in a manner that you`d like. I was with TF`s Robotech and Macross from day one I even got into Gobots. So the fact that I like them all does that make me wrong because you didnt like them. Basically your saying that your right and everyone else is wrong. A certain Austrian born German ruler did that awhile back and it didnt get him anywhere.

Remember this is a fun place for everyone.

Edited November 2, 2007 by big F

[vermillion01]

Quit the flaming or this thread wil get locked.

Everyone is entitled to thier own opinion, and not everyone here is able to ariculate their opinions in a manner that can be understood by everyone.

also bear in mind that there are non native english speakers here too, so through no fault of their own they may not get their P.O.V across in a manner that you`d like. I was with TF`s Robotech and Macross from day one I even got into Gobots. So the fact that I like them all does that make me wrong because you didnt like them. Basically your saying that your right and everyone else is wrong. A certain Austrian born German ruler did that awhile back and it didnt get him anywhere.

Remember this is a fun place for everyone.

Well said F.

(i watched Gobots too)

[chrono]

It was a decent giant robot movie but wasn't a very good Transformers movie.

That's probably one of the most direct and most polite ways I've every seen that put!

10/10!

Starscreams flip transform was a great 'tip of the hat' to Macross & RT though! But that was pretty much it...

[CoryHolmes]

I even got into Gobots.

(i watched Gobots too)

Ahh, but did either of you watch the Rock Lords spin-off?

[vermillion01]

Ahh, but did either of you watch the Rock Lords spin-off?

yes (and yes i'm kinda ashamed).

[areaseven]

Latest developments on Transformers 2:

Early Transformers 2 Secrets Revealed

SPOILERS!

- A Bethlehem, PA, steel mill is used as a stand-in for Shanghai, China.

- An unnamed Decepticon appears as an Audi RS8.

- A pair of Autobot "twins" transform into an ice cream truck.

- Arcee supposedly will appear on this film.

- Sam uses a splinter of the Allspark to turn an SR-71 Blackbird into Jetfire.

[Chewie]

Me likey lots.

[big F]

MMM. ME WANT DINOBOTS!!

Seriously anything is better than nothing

But we need more seakers for Starscream to interact with

[twich]

I am eagerly awaiting seeing the Jetfire/SR-71 thing, as jetfire was always my favorite transformer and I just LOVE the SR-71!, I got to experience a take-off once when I lived in Palmdale, CA and it was taking off from Lockheed Skunk Works....man, it damn near shook the car off the road! I hope that if true, they make Jetfire a leader class toy, that is the only thing that is going to do it justice!

Twich

[Impreszive]

I am eagerly awaiting seeing the Jetfire/SR-71 thing, as jetfire was always my favorite transformer and I just LOVE the SR-71!, I got to experience a take-off once when I lived in Palmdale, CA and it was taking off from Lockheed Skunk Works....man, it damn near shook the car off the road! I hope that if true, they make Jetfire a leader class toy, that is the only thing that is going to do it justice!

Twich

I think I might be able to confirm the SR 71 thing. TF2 was just up here last week filming at Udvar Hazy, near Dulles Airport. FOund out after the fact sadly. Megan Fox was here too. Bummer.

[GobotFool]

There's always a bunch of people who think shitty movies are great. We call them morons.

I enjoyed transformers for what it was, a loud summer blockbuster. It wasn't the movie I was hoping for, and I have my doubts the second one will be either, despite promises of more robot action.

Transformers did let me see large,realistically rendered transforming robots on the big screen for the first time, and thats all I went to see. While transformers has produced some good story lines, like beast wars and parts of the marvel comics run, we are not talking about a franchise known for its sophisticated writing and characters.

I think people tend to toss around terms like "Great", "Fantastic" and "Instant Classic" a little to liberally. There is nothing wrong with really enjoying a shallow but entertaining popcorn movie. Its not like Transformers really pretended to be anything else.

[Scream Man]

Hell, Micahel Bay was quoted sometyhing like "You dont get me in to make you Shindlers list. You call me when you want lots of $#!+ to explode."

Say what u will about the man, but he knows the kind of filmmaker he is.

Personally I htought TYransformers kicked ass.

[GobotFool]

If anyone really hates Beast Wars I don't know what to say---it's got one of the better storylines out there *period* IMHO, and is by far the best TF story out there.

It's kind of like saying "I hate ST:TNG and DS9 because they're not TOS". Umm, well, it's hard to argue that TOS had better stories and plots. You may hate the setting and look, but for raw character development, stories, etc---TNG and DS9 blow away the original.

Its similar to how people can't get over how Starbuck is a man in the new BSG, or how the new doctor who series actually has production value.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I hope we get a Jetfire toy big enough to not be riddled with underside kibble. An SR-71 alt mode with parts hanging off of the bottom will look asstastic.

I worry that he won't have much screentime either.

[buddhafabio]

with drone that the air force tested with the sr 71. there is the pack for jetfire......but what about aircraft in groomlake.

Edited June 10, 2008 by buddhafabio

[David Hingtgen]

Tech note: No SR-71 ever carried a drone. Those were the M-21's, which are modified A-12's.

[Fort Max]

It may not actually be Jetfire in name, Bay used numerous code names and such during the production of the firsl film.

Then again, filming a big plane like that isn't something he can hide so they may not have bothered.

[altermodes]

I personally hope it is true, and it turns out to be Jetfire and becomes a Autobot..... "And if i think about it, the Sr-71 will probably kinda match his G1 Tech Specs as well "

But there is very good chance that it could become "Megatron"

Edited June 10, 2008 by altermodes

[Mechleader]

Just got word that they are/were recently filming in Northern NJ. By Mount Olive. Close to NY STATE/Penn boarders.

No word on what they were shooting but they have a 45 people crew working.

[Vermillion21]

I hope we get a Jetfire toy big enough to not be riddled with underside kibble. An SR-71 alt mode with parts hanging off of the bottom will look asstastic.

Agreed ... let's hope the Hasbro designers don't make another movie Starscream toy ....

[renkenjutsu]

But knowing Hasbro, they won't be doing any sleek planes either (except for that one Decepticon jet plane with the ridiculously small legs and one-eyed head)

[Fit For Natalie]

I want a Leader class Starscream with a proper fighter mode, goddammit. Is that too much to ask Hasbro? IS IT?!?

I assume this is a modified prop Camaro due to the visible cut vents in front of the rear wheel arches that the pre-production cars driving around the US and Australia lack. And the lack of window frames on the doors, which I heard the production model will have to have for safety.

[Fit For Natalie]

Pics of what appears to be the Starscream/F-22 Raptor maquette.

[M'Kyuun]

The first movie wasn't what I'd hoped it'd be, but I think it could have been much worse had it been handed to a different director. Bay loves cars, explosions, and frat humor, and that's what we got. From reading the previous posts, I gather TF2 is taking the same road, using Allspark fragments to animate new minions. As an aircraft mechanic, it's fine in a cartoon, but just uses a little too much Pure F 'n Magic for me in a live action movie. I wasn't crazy about the whole scanning business in the first movie, either, as it borders more on magic (yeah, I know, nano-technology..but it's a sci-fi shortcut that's easily overused and abused). That said, I'm ok with he bots possessing the tech to scan something and reformat, but to place a magic crystal on a pre-existing machine and its becoming something alive and capable of shifting its atomic structure so radically just seems a stretch to me in a live-action movie. It's a writer's shortcut, and a way to introduce new characters, but I don't care for the approach personally. For those who like Bay's take on the franchise, great for you, and I hope you get as much enjoyment from the second. I'll see it expecting more adventures of Shia and S7 with a few more cameo appearances of the Barely Recognizeable Transformers.

Having seen a few of his movies and interviews, I get the feeling Bay was one of those 'too cool' guys in school who made fun of the kids who bought and played with Transformers, and now he has to turn a 180 and make a movie about something with which he has no personal connection or familiarity, and probably not just a little loathing. So, cover it with glorious car shots, immature antics and dialog, explosions! Lots of em!, and, best of all, glamour shots of Megan, and maybe, with all that distracting everyone, nobody will notice how he dodges any prolonged scenes or character development of those yucky robots. I noticed, but more Megan isn't a bad thing, either. We need a spring break shot of her at the beach; Shia can stay home and play with his robo-buddies.

[Fit For Natalie]

Considering Bay was 19 when G1 came out in 1984, he probably never even heard of it then, and even if he had, I don't know how he could be interested at that age. So he was right when he said he was into girls when it originally came out, because he would have already been in college. There wasn't as much of an 'adult collector' movement then, and in any case they would have been collecting what they grew up with, not some stupid new cartoon about badly animated robots.

I think saying he loathes Transformers is waaay overstating things. I would say he loathes some of the Transformers fans, which is fair enough, considering some of them wanted to kill him for not adhering to their narrow view of what Transformers *should* be. And really, anybody protesting outside his offices deserves to be mocked and derided.

Edited June 15, 2008 by Fit For Natalie

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Transformers the cartoon relied a lot on magic so wouldn't it be ok for the movie to have magic too? We can be happy that some things that the movie got right (magic) but then angry at other things. (the look of the TF which change every time a new cartoon of it is made.)

Can't please em all.

Edited June 15, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Fit For Natalie]

Now, let's all talk about the F-22 Raptor prop they're using for some reason............... interesting, yes?

[big F]

Now, let's all talk about the F-22 Raptor prop they're using for some reason............... interesting, yes?

Yeah! Id love one of those. What is it 1/4 scale...

Edited June 16, 2008 by big F