The Transformers 2 Thread--A Michael Bay thread

[CoryHolmes]

You know, as much as I want to hate Michael Bay, he's made quite a bit of sense when it comes to how to tackle a Transformers movie. I agreed with him and his cohorts more often than not while going through the extras DVD, and I wasn't expecting that.

Scary, isn't it?

In my opinion, 'heart and magic' would be the scene where the Autobots arrive to Earth - now *that's* a good sequence.

Agreed. Best scene in the film by far.

Edited October 25, 2007 by CoryHolmes

[VF5SS]

Too bad that sequence ended with a pointless cyber Power Point recap of the backstory.

Edited October 25, 2007 by VF5SS

[Jeremy007]

i have a couple of suggestions...

generic truck robot

generic tank robot

it would be nice if they focused on the 'bots more this time around. not some TF cameo part 2.

the human cast friggin' annoys the hell outta me. and less flash, more substance please.

i really hope this can turn out to be a better movie.

i agree 100% The Transformers in the Transformers movie were definatly an afterthought. Hopefully in the second one, we will see some action on Cybertron, Decepticons plotting and more Autobot action.

[CoryHolmes]

Now that I've rewatched the film, I think one of the unsung heros that deserves mention is the soundtrack. So great and so appropriate for the action on the screen. The arrival of the Autobots was suitably epic, and all of the car chase and car beauty shots scenes were rrghtly pumping and energetic. I think the Barricade/Bumblebee chase sequence is my second-favourite part of the film.

[JB0]

Agreed. Best scene in the film by far.

I thought Starscream ripping the F-22s apart in midair was pretty awesome, personally.

This may just be because it was the only action sequence in the entire film where you could tell what was going on.

I had much higher hopes for the last movie.

I wasn't expecting great writing. But I WAS expecting it to have explosions and gunplay and robots kicking robot tailpipe scaterred through it.

I'll be skipping movie 2, unless I hear it did a complete 180.

[Fit For Natalie]

Too bad that sequence ended with a pointless cyber Power Point recap of the backstory.

Not pointless because fans want to see this continuity's Cybertron and they need to tell people why they're here.

[CoryHolmes]

Not pointless because fans want to see this continuity's Cybertron and they need to tell people why they're here.

Not just the fans, but for all the non-fans that needed to be brought up to speed on the backstory.

I thought Starscream ripping the F-22s apart in midair was pretty awesome, personally.

That's another good one, yeah. But it ranks slightly behind the arrival because of the music. As I said before, the epic music during that arrival sequence just *worked* for me. And I agree with the whole "calm enough to uderstand the action".

[Fit For Natalie]

I've decided that 'HEART AND MAGIC' will be Bay's new meaningless catchphrase, at least for myself.

[VF5SS]

Not pointless because fans want to see this continuity's Cybertron and they need to tell people why they're here.

Except they already told us the whole spiel in the opening narration. wes wants the allspark, oh noes its on earth now. I wonder who's gonna follow it!11!! They could've easily included Cybertron in the begining and not given us a slideshow of Megatron spearing a guy. God the movie felt so padded out. The first macguffin was worthless because deus ex Sector 7 took everyone to the Allspark. The hackers were pointless. Captain Beef Hardcheese's little ripoff of Heartbreak Ridge in the desert was awful. It was like half this movie was just filler to bulk up the paper thin plot. Does the fact that this was a Transformers movie (or a Michael Bay film) excuse it from being poo? It's watchable poo, but still poo.

[promethuem5]

I've decided that 'HEART AND MAGIC' will be Bay's new meaningless catchphrase, at least for myself.

I like it

[UN_MARINE]

we've seen Cybertron, it was shown when Prime was narrating about the Allspark.

it's a crappy, burnt-out, spike-filled transforming rock.

the matrix's machine-controlled surface set had more appeal.

unless they redesign the planet, i don't want to see it again.

if they need a planet to hold their alien robot meetings, Mars would be a good place to do it. and the moon.

they already established the "they're out there" part, so Mars & the moon would be sensible bases.

i'm thinkin the 'cons would own Mars, since they killed a NASA rover there already.

and... Autobot moon base!

they could give us a recap & backstory anywhere. they could always say Cybertron's "just... over... there."

[lord_breetai]

i'm thinkin the 'cons would own Mars, since they killed a NASA rover there already.

and... Autobot moon base!

they could give us a recap & backstory anywhere. they could always say Cybertron's "just... over... there."

Mars is the new Charr?

[GobotFool]

Tidal Wave was cool------because he was a combiner, not because he was a ship(s).

My only real request for the next movie: ZOOM OUT. Especially during transformations. Let me see the whole robot at least once, and the whole transformation at least once. The "best" transformations only showed Prime, Jazz, and Bonecrusher's rear bumpers while transforming.

While the transformations are real fast, we do get two zoomed out shots of BB transforming in the movie, 1st in his vintage mode right after his fight with Barricade, and in his 08 mode right after Prime rescues Sam from Simmons.

There are two things I want done in the sequel,in addition to what Dave said above, is no command room scenes. Good old regular joe human soldiers fighting the bots is fine, but dammit, I don't need 300 shots of the camera whirling around a command room while technicians stare intensely at their screens. Second, stop showing us transformers from the human perspective, all those through a car, or store window shots got on my nerves.

[Guest sh002]

hey if the second one has optimus' trailer it could fold up away neatly into his pocket.

[Fit For Natalie]

Since they didn't show Barricade being killed by Prime, I hope Barricade gets his rematch with the shiny new Bumblebee.

SALEEN S281 EXTREME VS 2009 CAMARO

WHO WILL WIN?!?!?!?

[Arthurius]

I have the movie many many times, and i have never seen Prime killing Barricade, can you pls explain when this happens???

[Fit For Natalie]

After Prime kills Bonecrusher, he would have also killed Barricade (possibly by throwing him into a support pylon). It was cut from the movie, but was left in the comic book and other mediums based upon earlier scripts. Writer Roberto Orci said they're leaving his fate open for the sequel.

[Seven]

Here's what I am hoping for:

(Using Bay logic)

Dinobots are what lead Megatron to the allspark, by accident. Optimus finds finds them, via weakass signal and brings them back to the present era. hilarity do ensue.

Starscream returns to Cybertron to give us more of a glimpse of their world. Finds Shockwave, and Soundwave and mobilizes for a counter offensive.

Meanwhile Megatron/Galvatron reawakens with Allspark powers and crawls to shore and gives life to the Constructicons. They follow him back down to the trench, and repair and modify the rest of the deceptions. Maybe building a base.

Starsceam and CO. arrive and join up with Megatron. Perhaps a little in-fighing for time.

Shockwave gives the Constructions the "Combiner Key"

They still side with their creator.

Some city has something the Decepticons want. They attack.

Autobots fight back with military Quick response team.

They hold the line, but it ends "ESB" style.

A distress signal is sent.

This opens the way for TF3.

I've been plotting this since the movie came out. The only thing so far that has caught me by surprise is the "Bay" aircraft carrier. While that would make sense for the Decepticons, who favor military vehicles, It seems kind of recockulous.

You don't seem to quite grasp "Bay logic" just yet. The big glaring omissions from your plot are stereotypical human characters suffering from extreme melodrama or sappy expressions of love (animal crackers across stomachs, etc), bombastic music and even more bombastic one liners (this is a kickass ride, winners go home and f**k the prom queen, etc), questionable acting from otherwise hot looking actresses (Tea Leoni, Liv Tyler, Megan Fox), and heroic 360 camera pans around humans (and sometimes robots and asteroids). The correct ratio for your plot would be 1:8 with robots only being on screen and having any sort of development in very short meaningless spots, while the before mentioned stereotypical soldiers, hackers and teen lovers would take up a majority of the plot.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they aren't going to put the ad as "Transformers 2 - starring Optimus Prime and Galvatron", it'll be "Transformers 2 - starring Shia Lebeouf (and his increased demand for plot input) and Megan Fox (and her need to stretch her acting legs by doing something other than bending over a hot engine). You can subtitute in any great actor (ala John Turturro or Jon Voight) to overact in a method suited best for making their eyeballs bulge out of their sockets as costar.

Oh, and the only thing ending like ESB will be ESB.

[Hikuro]

After Prime kills Bonecrusher, he would have also killed Barricade (possibly by throwing him into a support pylon). It was cut from the movie, but was left in the comic book and other mediums based upon earlier scripts. Writer Roberto Orci said they're leaving his fate open for the sequel.

I've also heard the novel describes Barricade's destruction as well...I have though still yet to get the book.

[Max Jenius]

I've always told my wife and others that I *LOVE* the arrival scene. It seriously made me feel like I was 5 years old again. It was one of the scenes that showed me the possibilities of the live action film. Michael Bay is a tool though, so I'm still hoping he doesn't ruin it.

[big F]

The only real way it would work is if the Decpitcon armada come to earth and killed nearly all the humans a la Macross zentran/U.N Spacey battle. That way there`d be less chance of stereotypical human Hollywood junk. The whole dinobot thing would work as long as they are mechanical and not organic. Large ships as robots in Bays no size changing environment. That would result in a mech the size of the SDF1 thereabouts. It would be like Unicron vs the TF`s pointless IMO.

Make it a combiner of sorts and it would work. More flash backs to give the story more weight and less computer nerds in server rooms as this is just crap and not what we want.

One more thing use the zoom function the other way too nice panoramic shots are also good.

[Max Jenius]

Oooh, also another part that I thought had a lot of... heart was it? Was the scene where Optimus rolls up right before he runs into Megatron and transforms. The music during that transformation sequence and their exclaimations upon meeting eachother really worked for me.

On that note; I'm glad they made Prime the main hero of the movie, but I wish he wasn't portrayed as such a weakling compared to Megatron. Speaking of which; one thing I did miss was that the fights lasted longer and were more personal in the older material. Not just the big leader fights.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Max Jenius

[Golden Arms]

Liv Tyler and Megan Fox can act??? News to me. The transformers(cost, big name stars require big paychecks, and lots of screen time) are always gonna take a back seat to the human characters. How many comic book, and video game movies need to be made and suck for the fans to finally realize Hollywood is never gonna make the film that the fans truely crave.

[eugimon]

Liv Tyler and Megan Fox can act??? News to me. The transformers(cost, big name stars require big paychecks, and lots of screen time) are always gonna take a back seat to the human characters. How many comic book, and video game movies need to be made and suck for the fans to finally realize Hollywood is never gonna make the film that the fans truely crave.

meh, as a fan, I kindly suggest that all the transformer whiners stop speaking for the rest of us.

[Fit For Natalie]

Liv Tyler and Megan Fox can act??? News to me. The transformers(cost, big name stars require big paychecks, and lots of screen time) are always gonna take a back seat to the human characters. How many comic book, and video game movies need to be made and suck for the fans to finally realize Hollywood is never gonna make the film that the fans truely crave.

Funny, there's this bunch of other fans who thought the movie was great.

[VF5SS]

There's always a bunch of people who think shitty movies are great. We call them morons.

[eugimon]

There's always a bunch of people who think shitty movies are great. We call them morons.

ah, how sad for you that you need to tie in your sad sense of self worth into what people's individual tastes in movies are. Perhaps if you spent more time developing your own life, you wouldn't be so emotionally invested in the lives of others. Maybe then, you wouldn't feel the need to personally attack other people over things as trivial as a movie. But who am I kidding, someone so pathetic as to go online and do nothing but spew hate filled rants over a popcorn flick isn't going to do anything productive or meaningful with their lives.

So go on, give us another brilliant, profanity laced tirade over a cartoon, we're all laughing at... err, with you.

[VF5SS]

Maybe you should take your head out of your ass and see just how stupid the, "you know... a lot of people think this way..." argument is.

[Alpha OTS]

[Warmaker]

Funny, there's this bunch of other fans who thought the movie was great.

Keep in mind that there's still a bunch of us that think the movie *sucked* before it hit the theater and afterwards. Thankfully I didn't pay to see it, but did see it since I had nothing else to do where I was at.

Watching a bad movie > Watching sand blow in one's face

(Haven't been a TF fan since a kid back in the 80s)

[Twoducks]

There's always a bunch of people who think shitty movies are great. We call them morons.

And just who is this "WE"? The Lonely Fanboy Front, the Front of the Lonely Fanboy or the Fanboy Popularly Lonely Front?

Any one of them would be a surprise; I heard the LFF and the FLF choked on their hate for one another and that the FPLF generalized their hatees so much they ended up including themselves in them.

Hope the sequel has a gestalt.

[vermillion01]

There's always a bunch of people who think shitty movies are great. We call them morons.

I liked Transformers! does that mean i'm a moron? I also like reading amusing posts from idoits that speak before thinking.

If you intended that as a bit of humor.. fair enough. But please, dont generalise. One man's shitty movie is not everyman's shitty movie. Depends on taste. vision. patience.

TF was by no means an "amazing" movie.. it was however, a good attempt at something that was in reality, quite hard to pull off.

so... am i a moron?

Edited November 2, 2007 by vermillion01

[VF5SS]

Now you guys are acting like morons. This guy says,

Funny, there's this bunch of other fans who thought the movie was great.

And I say, "There's always a bunch of people who think shitty movies are great. We call them morons." as an example of how Fit For Natalie's argument is stupid. "A bunch of people like something! That means it's great!" That's a stupid argument.

[vermillion01]

Now you guys are acting like morons. This guy says,

And I say, "There's always a bunch of people who think shitty movies are great. We call them morons." as an example of how Fit For Natalie's argument is stupid. "A bunch of people like something! That means it's great!" That's a stupid argument.

Now i understand u... ok, i'm with you there.. just beacuse lots of people like something, doesn't make it great.

Sorry, for the confusion.. sounded like u were saying 'anyone that liked this is a moron' or words to that effect.

lots of people liked Hitler, and he was an arse!!!

Anyhooo... if you liked it.. great! if you didnt, oh well.. not the end of the world. everyone has the right to their opinion.

[Toboro]

It's interesting to see so many people on here stand up for the movie. It feels kind of weird hearing this on a forum where they cut Robotech to shreds since it is nothing like the original Macross. I haven't met one old school fan yet who dug it, or for that matter who dug beast wars or any of the crap outside of G1. I'm not going to say it wasn't a fun popcorn flick but I will go out on a limb and say it wasn't that good of a movie.

I work in VFX and most of Bay's excuses for why the characters wouldn't use old school designs seemed like a hundred other things I've heard before. Pretty much just an excuse for him to have more say and control as a director. In the buildup to the movie I loved how many times he went back on things he said Like "mass shifting doesn't have a place in my film", then there was the allspark, all the weaponry and arm cannons that appear from nowhere, Frenzy growing a whole new body. Another one was "The reason the characters are being redesigned is because they won't work on film", well from what I saw it was hard to tell where any of his characters began and ended, you could hardly tell one apart from another and it made some of the action shots unwatchable. Then to top it off his "people" leaked word out a couple weeks before release that "Hasbro didn't want Bay to use the original designs because they were worried that the movie would ruin them for people". Nice way of trying to rewrite history, although I'd almost believe that statement. Hey he said it was would be true to Transformers and I guess I can see where he was coming from. He thought the horrible little film he did called Pearl Harbor was actually pretty close to the event it was supposed to depict. I thought it was closer to a Jerry Springer episode mixed with battle scenes and and 360 rotations of every actor cut to bad pop music. Either way, I will just continue to hope he has a minor stroke before the next film is in production and they have to hand it off to someone who could do it justice like Cameron or Spielberg. Just because a film makes a lot of money doesn't mean it's good. Look at episode 1.