The Transformers 2 Thread--A Michael Bay thread

[dizman]

Hmm devastator looks terrible (big shocker there) but the fallen is mildly acceptable. He does have a very bionicle look about him but hey thats what the kids are into these days..... right?

[protostar8]

The "Fallen" doesn't share any traits with TF's. He is just some random freaking garbage a designer spewed out and lucky us, Michael Bay loved it. Devastator looks like a troll. Heck, he's just plain crappy looking compared to what he could have been. Does he look "realistic", no way. None of the TF universe is "realistic", but they could have been done much better than they are. I hope that this movie tanks (I love TF's, but this just isn't a good direction for the franchise), that way maybe we'll get a new design team and director for the last installment. I actually like looking at TF's, and I don't think the movie delivers many robots that aren't generic or recognizable as Transformers without being told it's a Transformer.

[VFTF1]

Well - I will grant you that the robots in Transformers do all look very generic - and Devastator in particular certainly does too. But, then again, so did G1 - it's just that their "generic" look was boxy/chunky, while here we have more fluid, alien looks.

I can't be as down on the movie as you are, because I understand that the design aesthetic they went for was "alien robots" and particularly making the Decepticons as minimally anthropomorphic as possible in order to highlight their "evil" by making them so very different from humans. This does, of course, somewhat go against the grain since "evil" should have nothing to do with someone looking different.

But... I dunno. I liked the first movie. Yeah - sure - I conceed all the plot holes people have pointed out. But guess what? More than Meets the Eye had its' share of plot holes too (Spike being knocked off an oil rig and surviving - his dad jumping in after him to save him..and surviving?) as did the Marvel comics.

Transformers were always supposed to be somewhat fun. I can't be too harsh on them - and I keep reminding myself Peter Cullen is Optimus Prime which is really a big plus.

I think - on the whole - the movie franchise could have come out A LOT worse. Seriously. I think the first movie was really in the spirit of G1 - which is what I dreamed of - and it delivered big time; with great special effects to boot.

I'm expecting the sequal to be even better. I'm happy the Constructicons are in it; I'm happy they form Devastator. I'm happy Megatron is a tank. I'm curious to see whether they give the Transformers more character development this time around (I hope so) and focus it on their character arcs (hope so).

I seriously think this franchise could have been a much MUCH bigger train wreck or it could have financially tanked and doomed Transformers.

The only thing I'm unhappy with is the lack of collector's quality toys - since the movie toys don't really cut it for me from the pics I've seen...

Pete

[Guest sh002]

i'll probably watch this movie for some of the action and megan fox.

[kaiotheforsaken]

VF hit a lot of things on the head in my opinion. Transformers never really was the pinnacle of story telling. For the most part (Beast Wars/Machines excluded) it was a basic story set there for good awesome robots to fight evil awesome robots. Transformers has done a lot worse than the live action films. Most of the animated series that came after Beast Wars/Machines sucked pretty royally across the board. Though animated has done a good job in making up for that.

Transformers has dozens of different incarnations. I don't see why people have such a difficult time accepting this into the fold. As someone who grew up on Transformers, I can honestly say I loved the first movie and will probably love the two that follow. Seeing Optimus duke it out with Megatron on an IMAX screen is awesome no matter if they are hyper complex "realistic" versions or blocky old school ones.

[UN_MARINE]

wow. those are some really horrible designs.

this so-called devastator isn't awe-inspiring.

i wanted to laugh at it instead of going "ooh... most impressive"

and the fallen looks like the bastard kid of TFA prowl & the alien from species. ugh.

i can now honestly say i can design something that's a hundred times better.

[M'Kyuun]

The movie designs are hit and miss for me; while many don't look like Transformers at all, there are a few that sorta do. The toys look more like Transformers than their on-screen incarnations, just b/c they have to really transform, so the toys are generally more appealing to me than the CG renderings.

Not too spun up for the second go-round. I expect more of the same, and unfortunately, Bay's vision and my own are contrary. I'll see the movie out of morbid curiosity, b/c I'm a kid at heart, and aesthetic aside, it's neat to see a real car become a robot and move around. I still like what was done in the Citroen commercial years ago better than any of the last movie designs, and that thing could dance, pun intended, circles around Bay's skele-formers. I agree that this round truly resembles recent years' Bionicle sets.

Devastator is ...different than I expected, but exactly what I should have.

I'm not against making the things alien, per se, but if you're going to attach a well-known and much loved brand name like Transformers, at least make the characters look like their namesake...make them recognizeable as such. I doubt any fan would associate first movie Megatron, Frenzy, or The Fallen as Transformers without having seen the movie or read current news of the second. I wouldn't, and I love this stuff. That's really my beef in a nutshell, along with plot, humor, writing, lack of character development, too much Shia, Sector 7, pointless hacker subplot, etc, etc. I liked the parents, oddly enough, and Peter Cullen is and always will be Optimus to me. I hope, like the Hulk, some other director will take on the franchise in live action and take it in a different direction.

That's my positive comment after the rant.

[Morpheus]

VF hit a lot of things on the head in my opinion. Transformers never really was the pinnacle of story telling. For the most part (Beast Wars/Machines excluded) it was a basic story set there for good awesome robots to fight evil awesome robots. Transformers has done a lot worse than the live action films. Most of the animated series that came after Beast Wars/Machines sucked pretty royally across the board. Though animated has done a good job in making up for that.

Transformers has dozens of different incarnations. I don't see why people have such a difficult time accepting this into the fold. As someone who grew up on Transformers, I can honestly say I loved the first movie and will probably love the two that follow. Seeing Optimus duke it out with Megatron on an IMAX screen is awesome no matter if they are hyper complex "realistic" versions or blocky old school ones.

Transformer is about the look of the robot and its gimmick, then to make toys for us to collect. Who cares about the story telling or Megan Fox.......

[VFTF1]

Regarding the designs - I'd add one more thing:

In my opinion, it's hard to judge the movie designs based on STATIC PICTURES.

This is one thing I've come to suddenly realize - I was very critical of the TF designs going into the first movie, then, I SAW THEM MOVE and it was like OH WOW! These are great! Starscream especially. Starscream looks like an ape thingy in a static picture - but on screen, when he MOVES - he looks AWESOME.

A LOT of the design in these is about getting them to look a certain way WHEN MOVING - these have to be LIVING robots. These are not designs made primarily to fit into a comic book format or the limited motion 2-D world of animation.

That said - we really don't know what the Fallen or Destastator "looks like" based on those still shots because we haven't seen them move yet. Movement helps convey presense and character.

Remember - the designers were definitely concerned with how these things would walk, pivot, turn etc when thinking them up - it's not just about having it look good on a still splash page shot.

Pete

[Dobber]

I know what you're saying Pete, and for the most part agree. However, I think the designs loose alot of believability because I really can't see how some of them could ACTUALY transform into the vehical they are supposed to be. Too much "movie magic" going on. Don't get me wrong, I really liked the first movie and I'm looking forward to the next one, I was just hoping to have some more realistic transformations.

Chris

[UN_MARINE]

i have to contest the "they're supposed to be seen moving, not standing" line of thought.

yes, they have to consider a character's motion, nuances, etc.

but a design purely based on how it should move is a broken design.

as stated, these are meant to be "living" designs, but you don't expect something living to be in perpetual motion. it has to stand still some time.

to leave out how the designs looks static is a failing in the creative process.

simple example: pick a sports car. they're meant to move, they're designed to be beautiful in motion, but they're also beautiful standing still. that's a true & complete design.

[GobotFool]

i have to contest the "they're supposed to be seen moving, not standing" line of thought.

yes, they have to consider a character's motion, nuances, etc.

but a design purely based on how it should move is a broken design.

as stated, these are meant to be "living" designs, but you don't expect something living to be in perpetual motion. it has to stand still some time.

to leave out how the designs looks static is a failing in the creative process.

simple example: pick a sports car. they're meant to move, they're designed to be beautiful in motion, but they're also beautiful standing still. that's a true & complete design.

While it is true that cars are capable of standing still and looking attractive, the beauty of most a sports cars stem from the fact that they are aerodynamic, as the form of the cars body has been crafted for the purpose of maximizing the cars final function. The best sports cars aesthetically scream speed because they were built to be fast high performance vehicles. In the best machines there is a near fusion of the end form and the end function. While some people will place pointless adornments on a sports car, or rice them up, the addition of pointless crap merely for the purpose of some bizarre aesthetic trend tends to not only diminish the cars ability to function aerodynamically but its beauty as well. A truly great functional design should not be twisted to fit a form of style over the objects function, which is very arguably what the designs in the transformers movie do.

Or do they? For a old cartoon, bland boxy robots, distinguished by the car parts that hang off of them and a few minor adornments to distinguish their head designs, is fine. It is also fine for machines that are truly intended to be soulless factory built automatons, with no will of their own and are incapable of altering their form and changing over time. AKA Things that were built with an end in mind. One thing that the new movie established that makes this new breed of Transformer designs more dynamic than any previous series is we have machines, that within particular limits, can choose the forms they wish to take at any time. No more stepping into a chamber and having Telatran One tell you your going to be a POS Camero from the 70s. No, BB would rather be a newer, faster, more beautiful car and now he has a say in the matter. While the portrayal of them as characters kinda sucked in the new movie because of a lack of dialogue, their designs, for me at the very least, left me with the impression that I was not looking at a mere machine, but at an alien life form that happened just happened to be made out of metal instead of meat. A life form is never fully at rest unless its dead. While these new designs may have failed to faithfully channel the original character sheets of the old cartoon, they did manage to successfully (for me at the very least, as art is a purely subjective matter) evoke for me the idea of a living machine with a will of its own.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

NEW Trailer!

Starscream's Poseability & More

[RicePiece]

NEW Trailer!

Starscream's Poseability & More

Is anyone else surprised that this trailer has the movie rated R with Nudity, Sexuality and Language?

[Alpha OTS]

Regarding the designs - I'd add one more thing:

In my opinion, it's hard to judge the movie designs based on STATIC PICTURES.

This is one thing I've come to suddenly realize - I was very critical of the TF designs going into the first movie, then, I SAW THEM MOVE and it was like OH WOW! These are great! Starscream especially. Starscream looks like an ape thingy in a static picture - but on screen, when he MOVES - he looks AWESOME.

I have to agree. I distinctly remember being dissappointed by the designs for the first movie when they hit the net, and nothing could really dissuade me from that opinion. That is, until I saw the first trailer, and then when I saw the movie I was even happier with them. I'm keeping that in mind when I see these new movie sequel designs because I'm currently not liking many of them either.

[sidearmsalpha]

VF hit a lot of things on the head in my opinion. Transformers never really was the pinnacle of story telling. For the most part (Beast Wars/Machines excluded) it was a basic story set there for good awesome robots to fight evil awesome robots. Transformers has done a lot worse than the live action films. Most of the animated series that came after Beast Wars/Machines sucked pretty royally across the board. Though animated has done a good job in making up for that.

Transformers has dozens of different incarnations. I don't see why people have such a difficult time accepting this into the fold. As someone who grew up on Transformers, I can honestly say I loved the first movie and will probably love the two that follow. Seeing Optimus duke it out with Megatron on an IMAX screen is awesome no matter if they are hyper complex "realistic" versions or blocky old school ones.

The only complaint I have with Hasbro is that they don't make a movie/series just for the older fans, and realistically, I guess they can't since they have to sell as many toys as they can, which means, selling to kids, too. So, they make these series that seriously dumb down the characters and tone down the violence significantly. Only the comic books cater to the older fan/collector, but it would be nice to see something on even the small screen that has more depth but with characters that we older fans can recognize. Beast War/Machines was a great start in that direction, but it seems that after that, they went back to shitty stories aimed solely at kids. I guess those series didn't do too well with the younger kids?! Were the stories really that cerebral for kids to relate?! I remember watching the last season of Beast Wars when they realized they were on Earth back in the past and stumbled on the Ark and seeing Optimus and Megatron in CG glory. That was such a cool story with great characters. It's a shame that they can't go and make something CG like that again only with Universe/Classics versions of G1 characters or vehicles with a more serious tone than the crap they keep putting out. Who wouldn't kill to see a series based on the War Within universe or one on the Cybertronian Wars?! I was a kid of about 6 or 7 watching Star Blazers, and I loved that series! It was cool to be able to watch something with a serious story where characters died and there was some really dramatic stuff going on. I didn't feel like it was too out there for me. It's what made Robotech so great, too. I can't believe that they think kids today can't handle watching a character die. When the animated TF movie came out, who did they think was going to go see that movie?! Adults?!

[kaiotheforsaken]

Agreed, I'd like to see some more adult oriented things come to the transformers universe (other than comics). But I can understand where it might be profitable enough for Hasbro to pursue.

Still the..simplicity, if you will, of the life action stuff doesn't make it bad. They also haven't forsaken older fans either. I think character's personality traits still come out and hell, they brought back the real Optimus Prime. Rumor has it

that Prime dies in this one (though I hope not, or it isn't permanent) so, if it's true they aren't afraid to include a few more serious plot threads.

I just look at some of the things people say (which of course they are entitled to say) and wonder how they can be so harsh on the movie in general. It all comes down to personal opinion, but I'd take 100 Michael Bay Transformers movies over say...one crappy episode of Armada.

As for the designs, I like The Fallen a lot. Devastator I'm not too sure about, only because that image looks like it has some serious perspective going on, like he's starting to leap at you or something. The one component smashing through the overpass, that's double the size of Prime, makes me think that when this guy gets on screen it's going to be insanely awesome.

[sidearmsalpha]

The Fallen (CG render)

Looks like a cross between a Bionicle and the alien from Species.

Oh well, I'm not planning on getting any of the toys for the movie anyway unless the toy of Sideswipe turns out close to the CG model. From the first movie, I only like Ironhide enough to get him. I did pick up Stealth Bumblebee, mainly cuz I liked the repainted Camaro more than the bot mode. The only Decepticon that I liked enough to get wasn't even in the movie. The name escapes me right now, but he's that white and gray camo APC-like vehicle.

[anime52k8]

Is anyone else surprised that this trailer has the movie rated R with Nudity, Sexuality and Language?

what trailer are you watching, it didn't say anything about the rating.

[VFTF1]

Well - regarding the "spoiler" rumor... I would just like to point out that in the first Movie, Megatron supposedly "dies" too... and clearly we see that doesn't last long. But - that's good. That's how Transformers are supposed be. Ripped apart in one episode - up and running in the next

I think the movie is about as "serious" as you can expect this franchise to get. Even the most adult oriented and "serious" Transformers works always had a big BIG dose of "suspended belief" - and not so much for the "talking robots" part as for other aspects of the plot. I mean - Warwithin was pretty standard fair if you think about it. The Autobot battle with Trypticon should have- by rights - seen Autobots being annihilated left and right - instead they actually gave Trypticon a run for his money - and did anyone seriously believe anything "truly" bad happened to Skids?

Again - Transformers has always been whacky super robot fun. I personally enjoyed it most when it went into "inter-galactic/star wars" mode - with episodes like some of the season 3 eps (Quintesson Journal, Money is Everything etc) and comic book issues like Matrix Quest Bird of Prey. These are examples of good stories that take themselves seriously but not TOO seriously. In a way - all of Beast Wars was somewhat like this as well.

I really can't be too down on the franchise - the "kiddie" stuff is not necessarily bad - look at Animated. That was great fun. What was bad was the Trilogy - but not because it was "made for kids" - rather - because it F#CKING SUCKED!!!!... I really don't know how else to discribe it... it was just so ....terrible...I think part of the reason was because it took itself WAY waaay to seriously and there wasn't much of a conscious effort at deflating the pathos....

The Movie is well balanced.

But...yeah...I guess it'll be interesting to see what they come up with after Animated.

Pete

[big F]

Looking at the Devastator render I am pleased in a way that they have continued the established look and feel from the first film. While for nostagic reasons I'd have prefered a more like G1 look, I totally see that this would not work in todays CGI driven movie world.

This is summed up in my other halfs view of manga, toys, and models. She fairly hates the whole subject of robots and anime but has said that the film designs work where as the old 80's stuff would look too easy on film. She see the only problem is that the "big kids" will loose out as Hasbro is never going to be able to make figures film acurate unless they were a $1000 each due to the amount of moving parts neded to be used, that and it would take a week to transform one.

Hasbros big goal is to try and get some middle ground between film acurate and kid friendly and parent wallet safe. they have a hard job.

Treat the movies as rebbot material afterall all the best Sci Fi has done it, Gundam has and also you could argue that Macross has and does. So as Tf's have and are doing it it is no supprise really.

Edited February 14, 2009 by big F

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

The only complaint I have with Hasbro is that they don't make a movie/series just for the older fans, and realistically, I guess they can't since they have to sell as many toys as they can, which means, selling to kids, too.

When Hasbro announced G.I. Joe:Resolute, they said that if Resolute is successful, that they have plans for a Transformers cartoon aimed at us older fans. Link here.

I don't know if any of you know about Resolute, but it is a webisode series, animated by the team that does Avatar, and aimed at us. Characters will actually die, it's written by Warren Ellis, and the first trailer from SDCC last year showed Snake Eyes kill a few Cobra Troopers; 1 stabbed in the head, the other hit with a shuriken to the face, and the last killed after Snake Eyes did some CQB maneuvers, threw him to the ground, stabbed him with his wakizashi, and twisted the sword to finish him off. I imagine if a Transformers version is ever made, it'll be with more G1-esque characters than the movie, in both appearance and attitude.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

TOYFAIR PICS! F-35B Autobot, Devastator, & MORE!

[Guest sh002]

lots of horrible designs and toys. just getting used to the first movie designs too. maybe if there is a transformers release like gi joe resolute, the designs will be better.

[crasis]

Man, other than Leader Prime, Deluxe Sideswipe and the Bumblebee with Sam, I won't be buying ANY TF2 toys. They just look horrendous! I can't even blame the toy designers this time, since the actual movie characters are pure FUGLY. What is up with the Twins? My god, their faces are melting! And Devastator is pure crap (in toy form anyway). Gah. Oh well, more money for Macross this year.

[kaiotheforsaken]

http://www.seibertron.com/events/gallery.php?event_id=105

Some good images of the new movie figs. Still on the fence about some, but dear god Prime actually looks good, and about a million times better than his first version. I'd definitely pick him up.

edit: Prime is on page 2 of that link, and they need to stop making Springer repaints and give the character his own mold.

Edited February 15, 2009 by kaiotheforsaken

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

they need to stop making Springer repaints and give the character his own mold.

The Legends figure actually is an all new mold. Now if a Springer makes it to the mainline, I hold hope that it is all new and not a retool of Incinerator.

The figure I am most impressed with so far is Human Alliance Bumblebee. Very cool.

[kaiotheforsaken]

Right you are Shin, had to take a second look at the two since the vehicle mode is similar. I'd really like to see him get a true to character treatment, like Cyclonus. Springer has always been a favorite of mine, and he's been sort of neglected on decent figures. I'd like to see him in the movies too if he at least stayed a helicopter, an Apache maybe or Comanche (if they are still developing that one, I'm not really sure).

I would agree, the new Bumblebee is really impressive too. I was immensely disappointed with the first round of movie figures, and I'm glad to see improvements (in Prime's case, some serious ones). Sideswipe's toy looks pretty good too, I'm excited to see the render of that character.

[Alpha OTS]

It all comes down to personal opinion, but I'd take 100 Michael Bay Transformers movies over say...one crappy episode of Armada.

Amen, brother.

[VFTF1]

What's with Michael Bay and monkeys?

First Starscream gets turned into Tarzan's playmate... now Devastator too?

What --- do they have a drunk Optimus Primal designing these things?

Pete (mainly referring to pics from Toyfair)

[doodler7]

Hey, so if Devastator will be on the TF2 movie, does this mean that Omega Supreme will be on it too? Will Omega be a surprise? There's no way that the Autobots can stop Devastator just based on the strength of the Decepticons on the first movie.

[kaiotheforsaken]

Rumor has it that Jetifre and Prime can combine, now whether that's enough to stop Devastator...who knows. I could see this one being like...Empire Strikes back style. The bad guys are winning, dark time for the humans/Autobots, all that stuff. We may get a semi cliffhanger type ending to lead us right into the third flick.

[Morpheus]

Argh...what had they done to Devastator I want my old green giant back, not that rainbow gorilla.

[taksraven]

Amen, brother.

Meh, I still say bring back Beast Wars, anyday......

Taksraven

[kaiotheforsaken]

I would agree Taks, BW was fantastic. I remember originally thinking, what the hell is with these animal things? I was initially kind of turned off by the concept. It quickly turned into one of my favorite TF series.

I like the movie too though. If anything Transformers on a basic level lends itself to cool fights and lots of crap blowing up, so Bay isn't too out of his element. I think Spielberg's involvement helps the franchise too, he typically doesn't put his name on crap.