Who is the best pilot in Macross universe

[eugimon]

Remember we are talking bout who is the best 'pilot'.. an not leader.

Everyone served their purpose, even poor little Hayao.

:edit:

We all know Roy would win hands down if this was a poll to determine who was the best leader.

haven't you watched Topgun? Everyone knows your ability to keep your wingmates alive is one of the metrics taken into account when determining who's the best of the best.

[Warmaker]

A great pilot is a good leader.

Do you think Max could have won SWI by himself? Humanity barely won with hundreds of pilots and a singer using psychological warfare. Most of the other pilots probably didnt like Max much but Roy made sure more of those CF pilots came home alive so they could coordinate to defeat the enemy in the final battle.

On top of that Roy was a combat ace with more experience and likely more career kills than Max.

Ahh, but a great leader does not equate being a great pilot!

I'll use real life as an example.

I know Marines who shoot ridiculously well with no sighting accessories (Red Dot Scopes, Holographic Weapon Sights, assorted scopes), just plain old Iron Sights. Yet they may not be great leaders.

I know some Marines who are big, insanely strong, yet can run fast for long distances. Yet their leadership may not be up to par.

I know Marines who were d**n good leaders, but not as great in physical fitness, weapons proficiency than some of their subordinate Marines.

That's how I equate Max in this thread. I don't bring up Max's leadership as a reason for being the best pilot. I say he's the best pilot since he's by far the most successful ace. And he's alive. His blinding fighting skills, survivability, and capabiity of defeating the enemy's best show's why he is the best ace... the best pilot in Macross.

Also, Roy, as great of an ace he is himself, does not cut a blinding swathe of kills like Max does. Max blazes through the opposition like a full throtttled jet engine's exhaust through butter. Max does it repeatedly in almost every combat scene he gets into, right as a brand new pilot with the white / blue VF-1A through his blue / white VF-1J days (I'll leave out the Macross 7 instances).

Roy is a well rounded individual. He's a great ace himself and the best squadron leader of the characters shown in Macross. But as a pilot and succesful ace, Max is the best.

Edited October 13, 2007 by Warmaker

[warpaint22]

This is a hard poll, I was almost ready to put max as the Best Pilot however after careful thinking I choose Roy. I beleave that Max is an impressive pilot with natural talent but you can not dissmiss Roy as he was involved in the construction and testing of the VF's. Roy would have had the ability to feel and become part of his aircraft better than max as I can imagine the bad test planes before they got the VF right. Also Roy was also able to fly his missions destroy his targets and cover his less expirienced pilots. Max is an amazing pilot, that's for sure but he's a bit of a hot shot who seems less concerned about the other pilots around him. Leadership is one of the most important aspects when it comes to greatness and this is why I think Max proved himself more in M7 as he has more than himself to worry about. But the ability to be part of the design and testing would give any pilot greater skill with that machine, I'm sure Roy still new a few things about the VF's that know other pilot had at the time of space war 1. Maybe this is why Max is so great in M7 as he could have had imput into the design of the VF-22.

And yes my fave pilot is Roy.

[Irv Gotti]

I'm going to have to say Roy. Not only was he able to pull the team together (watch your Wingman!) and focus on the Mission at hand, he was able to do so while drunk! Let's not forget, that Mylia flew in with an entire squadron of Q'Rau (forgive my spelling!) and while Max was off giving an overconfident Mylia the business, her squadron is not around to retreat with her. What happened to them? Roy happened!!! While Max proves to be the Supernatural Prodigy in Macross, Roy's kill record remains unbroken. How do you beat a 101 kill (Breaking even the RED BARON's kill record) head start? Yes, Max is the most agile pilot and even the most legendary, but flying loop di loops is for the air circuses (note the irony here). I say, let the numbers speak for themselves. Roy all the way!!!

[Sumdumgai]

Okay with voting now.

Best pilot = Max

Favorite Pilot = Emilia

It was hard choosing favorite pilot. Max is awesome. Miria is hot. But, Emilia is hotter than Miria, therefore she is my favorite pilot. Max and Miria go together afterwards as a couple.

[Ratchet]

Does seem rather impossible now, doesn't it?

dammm...need to quit smoking that crack!

I meant Guld *lol*

BTW....who the %$^$ voted for Basara 3x?

Edited October 14, 2007 by Ratchet

[Valkyrie addict]

haha! the only 3 people on the world who enjoyed macross 7

[valkyrie13]

I just finished watching Mac7 just so that my viewing of the Macross series is complete. I agree it's a children's show and couldn't stand the sound force Valks (human face? feminine bodyline for a mech? - almost retro of Mazinger Z). With that said, all other mech designs were pretty impressive and I loved the VF-22s flown by Max and Miria in the last episode. My point is, even after having watched Mac7, I would still vote for Max.

[connor99]

For me, MAX would have to be the best pilot in the MAC universe, with ROY in a close second. I have to admit though that I didn't vote for any of these guys, but rather I chose HIKARU because if it were me flying a valk, I'd rather be lucky than good !

[Warmaker]

Wait a minute, I just noticed... there's no option for Kakizaki! What the heck is up with that?

[Zinjo]

Max would be the best natural pilot in the universe, even in his 50's he still hadn't lost it!!

Millia would be my favorite, because you have an ace Zentreadi pilot who then transfers that skill to a totally new kind of mecha and still rocks!

[Vic Mancini]

How can you guys have Isamu ranking higher than Isamu? I know Isamu can make dynobird clouds with his YF-19, but Guld CAUGHT UP WITH A Ghost fighter with his YF-21 and rammed it ala what the Russians used to do againsts the Germans back in WW2. It's not like Isamu even scored hits with his fighter's bullets/missiles during their aerial encounter.

Isamu and Guld are tied skill wise.

I think the logic behind Isamu being better than Guld comes from the fact that he was clearly starting to pull away as the front runner in the Super Nova project before it was canceled. Granted, they were flying different aircraft. Maybe the YF-19 was superior to the 21 in the hands of equally skilled pilots, who knows? All we can do is speculate, but he was pulling ahead.

We can only speculate as to what would've happened if Isamu stayed to fight the X-9 and Guld left to find Myung, too. Maybe Isamu would've defeated the ghost without needing to resort to a kamikaze act? Doubtful maybe, but possible.

I also think this poll would've been more interesting if the question was:

OTHER THAN MAX, who is the best pilot in the Macross Universe?

Max- best, obviously.

Isamu- favorite, and arguably second best.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

meh, i'd like to think the YF-21 was the only capable valk in stopping the X-9, even if it was a kamakazi measure.

Cut Guld some slack, he played by the rules, Isamu, did not. LOL If it wasn't for Gulds disorder, i'd say it was evenly matched.

What was his disorder btw? I just gathered it was his Zentran blood and him trying to control it by sedating his aggression

and blood lust coz he needed absolute control for the un-orthodox YF-21's Mind control gear.

Edited October 15, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie

[Exsedol]

I agree. The Yf-21 looked to me to be the superior plane. If Guld wasn't a head case I think the YF-21 clearly outclassed the YF-19. Even when Guld lost it and had to be rescued by isamu he could have taken control of the physical controls.

[Lonewolf]

Obviously Max is the best pilot in the franchise, but I have to admit Hikaru and Shin are my favorite pilots.

[Sumdumgai]

I think what gave Guld the edge on the X-9 was the YF-21 more than it was skill. The BCS allows for faster reaction time by eliminating the need for a manual control that'll take that much longer than a direct mental connection to the valkyrie. The YF-21 could keep on flying without limbs. Guld could keep on flying without eyes thanks to the BDI system.

Isamu would never have been able to take down the X-9 in the YF-19 due to the conventional controls and no BDI system. Neither of the two pilots even came close to touching the X-9 with their weapons systems. It came down to ramming, and the YF-21 was the only one capable to allowing a pilot to ram the X-9 (I am going with the movie version on this, since that's the story that Kawamori originally intended).

Yeah, ruskiiVFaussie, I was under the same impression as you. That the problems came from the zentraedi aggression. I also think that on top of that he probably had some mental problems, but can't exactly explore that possibility much since we don't know much about his past other than the incident and that he, Myung, and Isamu used to be friends.

Miria looks great decades after the original series, and after how many kids? I like Miria lots.

[Vic Mancini]

Cut Guld some slack, he played by the rules, Isamu, did not. LOL If it wasn't for Gulds disorder, i'd say it was evenly matched.

I don't remember seeing Guld's disorder being a factor during many of the test sequences. Maybe I have to watch PLUS again. Was there an actual visual element in the anime that suggested Guld's piloting ability was impared , (like his muscles clenching up in flight)? Or is it speculation on your part.

I agree. The Yf-21 looked to me to be the superior plane. If Guld wasn't a head case I think the YF-21 clearly outclassed the YF-19. Even when Guld lost it and had to be rescued by isamu he could have taken control of the physical controls.

The 21 was more ground breaking in a technological sense, but that doesn't mean it performed better. I got the impression from the anime that the 19 outperformed the 21 once it was in the hands of a pilot who could properly control it's power and maneuverability. Every montage showed the 19 flying faster, taking the lead, destroying targets sooner, and recording better test results than the 21. It even broke the arm right off the 21 in the "arm wrestling match" which proved it was stronger and more durable. Even if Isamu is a wild card, and Guld was cautious/conservative, he could not have pulled ahead of Guld in the competition by piloting a "clearly outclassed" aircraft.

The 19 may not have had morphing wings, and BDI/BDS, but it was still a top of the line next gen fighter, and it seemed to me that the anime was trying to convey to the audience that it edged out the 21 in head to head competition.

[Exsedol]

Hehe guess we'll never know until Isamu gets in a YF-21 Plus Isamu survived the missile tests by sheer disreguard for his saftey or his planes. That booster pack almost took the plane with it when it tore off. hehe Guld however dodged everything nice and smoothly without having to scream at the top of his lungs or crush the air out of his lungs due to G-forces. Then again, if the roles were reversed I doubt Isamu could even fly a YF-21 based on his imaturity and reckless behavior. He'd never be able to concentrate hard enough to fly it.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

I like to think both Valks have their pluses and minuses, and when the situation came, it was the YF-21 that had what it took

to take down the X-9. Conventional weapons had no way of even touching the X-9, ramming was the only way.

Who knows, i'd like to think Guld never intended killing himself, just had to try SOMETHING to knock the Ghost out

of control (worked) but at the same time, guld fizzled out. sad. Still the saddest Macross scene yet.

Isamu, with a conventional piloting method = win, but with a BDi, = lose big time.

I was always under the impression that the YF-21 was the fastest. Therefore the only one capable of keeping up with the highly maneouverable X-9.

Edited October 16, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Another take... Guld rammed the Ghost, Guld died, but the Ghost was still operational, if the Ghost was still as fast as it would be, i'd say Isamu had his work cut out for him deffinently.

Better an ending still, would be he seemed like he died, Isamu was getting mashed considerably, hiding in Battroid and Guld does a han solo act and takes out the Ghost, Guld gets Myung and Isamu still gets that hot piece of blonde freckly bootei!!! Lol

edit**

Edited October 16, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie

[Jeremy007]

isamu is every bit as capable to operate the YF-21 as Guld was. They were both hot-headed, but both could focus in order to get the job done. If guld can, isamu could as well.

[mostly_macross]

sorry to be predictable, but IMHO it's a no-brainer: Maxsu is Ichiban!! (and Millia is a very close second in my book).

[Vic Mancini]

I like to think both Valks have their pluses and minuses, and when the situation came, it was the YF-21 that had what it took

to take down the X-9. Conventional weapons had no way of even touching the X-9, ramming was the only way.

Who knows, i'd like to think Guld never intended killing himself, just had to try SOMETHING to knock the Ghost out

of control (worked) but at the same time, guld fizzled out. sad. Still the saddest Macross scene yet.

Isamu, with a conventional piloting method = win, but with a BDi, = lose big time.

I was always under the impression that the YF-21 was the fastest. Therefore the only one capable of keeping up with the highly maneouverable X-9.

Sorry, gotta disagree. Guld knew he was a gone'r. He even said his farewell to Isamu before he cut the limiter. He knew exactly what he was doing which makes it so sad/valiant.

Also, I don't think the BDI actually turned out to be as much of an advantage over analog controls as expected. Every competitive scene in the the anime indicated that Isamu and the 19 were taking the lead and out-dueling the 21, and Guld was using the BDI the entire time.

A YF-21 with a BDI AND the limiters turned off, then maybe it's a "big time loss" for Isamu, but I suspect the 19 has limiters of it's own. Both pilots could deactivate their limiters and dogfight each other until their guts were crushed under the weight of their own gravity....the only difference is Guld would still be able to see after his eyeballs imploded, which I guess would make him the winner even though he would die seconds later from the damage to his internal organs. : )

[David Hingtgen]

I didn't see Isamu actually doing better than Guld in the competitions---he merely showed off. Flying upside down doesn't mean you or the plane is better, etc.

[JB0]

A YF-21 with a BDI AND the limiters turned off, then maybe it's a "big time loss" for Isamu, but I suspect the 19 has limiters of it's own. Both pilots could deactivate their limiters and dogfight each other until their guts were crushed under the weight of their own gravity....the only difference is Guld would still be able to see after his eyeballs imploded, which I guess would make him the winner even though he would die seconds later from the damage to his internal organs. : )

Guld would also be able to fly once the g-forces exceeded what his own muscles could counter. Isamu would get less precise with his controls before losing control entirely as the limits of his physical strength were reached(blacking out seems to not be a concern in Macross, for whatever reason). Guld's controls don't depend on muscle.

And you forget that Guld would be able to see vastly more than Isamu even BEFORE his eyeballs imploded. I loved the sections where they cut in the 3D renders of the computer plotting out missile path cones and sonar maps, because they give you an idea of the sheer amount of information Guld had available that can't be delivered intuitively with traditional displays.

The YF-21 was beautiful hardware.

[eugimon]

I didn't see Isamu actually doing better than Guld in the competitions---he merely showed off. Flying upside down doesn't mean you or the plane is better, etc.

it's represented in the comparison graphs, after isamu becomes pilot of the yf-19, the yf-19 clearly pulls ahead of the yf-21. I honestly don't get why people are still debating this point.

[Sumdumgai]

The bar graphs we saw showed that the YF-19 was getting better results, and some worse results, with ups and downs all over the scale. The YF-21 was much more evenly distributed.

As for the 21's arm breaking. It was two arms against one single arm. It would be interesting to see how the 19 would hold up one arm against two.

Everyone favors one or the other, and if I'm not mistaken we've had countless discussions about the 19 and 21, over and over again. While I love the 19, the 21 seems so much more functional to me in how it can take damage and keep going. I just wish we could have seen how Guld flew in a conventional control valkyrie to get an idea of how skilled he was without BDI and BCS.

And as JBO has pointed out, the pure amount of information directly available to the pilot thanks to the BDI system is truly awesome.

addition: I can't remember, but does anyone recall if there were labels on the graphs?

Edited October 16, 2007 by Sumdumgai

[eugimon]

The bar graphs we saw showed that the YF-19 was getting better results, and some worse results, with ups and downs all over the scale. The YF-21 was much more evenly distributed.

As for the 21's arm breaking. It was two arms against one single arm. It would be interesting to see how the 19 would hold up one arm against two.

Everyone favors one or the other, and if I'm not mistaken we've had countless discussions about the 19 and 21, over and over again. While I love the 19, the 21 seems so much more functional to me in how it can take damage and keep going. I just wish we could have seen how Guld flew in a conventional control valkyrie to get an idea of how skilled he was without BDI and BCS.

And as JBO has pointed out, the pure amount of information directly available to the pilot thanks to the BDI system is truly awesome.

addition: I can't remember, but does anyone recall if there were labels on the graphs?

nope, watch the scene again, by the time the scene changes, the yf-19 was clearly superior in all categories, despite its uneven performance. The yf-21 WAS more even but didn't approach the scores the yf-19 was achieving. the yf-21's scores were barely in the green while several of the yf-19's scores were at the functional edge of the chart and all scores were clearly in the green.

Given how poor the results of the yf-19's scores were pre-isamu and how high they were post, its pretty clear that isamu was the deciding factor in the yf-19's performance

Edited October 16, 2007 by eugimon

[Ratchet]

Roy's practically everybody's favorite and you know why?

This:

He had an absolutely badass looking VF-1S along with his superb pilot skills. Max's still the best though.

[Vic Mancini]

I didn't see Isamu actually doing better than Guld in the competitions---he merely showed off. Flying upside down doesn't mean you or the plane is better, etc.

But flying upside down was the director's way of illustrating to us that the 19 was better. Those montages where the 19 flies upside down close to the ground, shoots targets ahead of the 21, and puts up better results on the bar graph are visual cues to let us know that the YF-19 team was gaining incredible momentum and roaring past the competition in the hands of a pilot who was capable of handling the 19.

No offense.... but if all you interpreted from those scenes was that Isamu was a show-off, I think you missed the point.

[Vic Mancini]

The bar graphs we saw showed that the YF-19 was getting better results, and some worse results, with ups and downs all over the scale. The YF-21 was much more evenly distributed.

As for the 21's arm breaking. It was two arms against one single arm. It would be interesting to see how the 19 would hold up one arm against two.

Actually it was two arms against two arms....evenly matched and the 21 buckled.

You can see both of the 21's hands on the gun pod here.

And here's the bar graph image.

[Sumdumgai]

Oh wow, I never noticed the other hand. Thanks for pointing that out!

Ah, it's too bad we didn't know what the checks were. Yeah, according to the graph the 19 is beating the 21.

[warpaint22]

Well I also thought that the YF-19 was a better aircraft once they found a pilot that could tame it, and flying upside down is not much of a trick it is 10 feet of the ground, but I always beleaved that M+ gave the impression that the 19 was a superior fighter.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Sorry, gotta disagree. Guld knew he was a gone'r. He even said his farewell to Isamu before he cut the limiter. He knew exactly what he was doing which makes it so sad/valiant.

Also, I don't think the BDI actually turned out to be as much of an advantage over analog controls as expected. Every competitive scene in the the anime indicated that Isamu and the 19 were taking the lead and out-dueling the 21, and Guld was using the BDI the entire time.

A YF-21 with a BDI AND the limiters turned off, then maybe it's a "big time loss" for Isamu, but I suspect the 19 has limiters of it's own. Both pilots could deactivate their limiters and dogfight each other until their guts were crushed under the weight of their own gravity....the only difference is Guld would still be able to see after his eyeballs imploded, which I guess would make him the winner even though he would die seconds later from the damage to his internal organs. : )

lol nastyyyyyyyyyy this is a great disscussion. That's something i never thought of, Guld with eyes busted and organs crushed, but still carrying on like a f'n legend. Oh man F u cking nasty and BRILLIANT.

I love the BDI system now. *sighs with love hearts*

F'n aith BDI is bad ass!

I still don't rate the 19 higher than the 21, but you brang up a great point how the 19 'may' have had limiters, that would be very interesting!

Edited October 16, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie

[ruskiiVFaussie]

I remember the 2nd hand of the YF-21 coming in after, Isamu already did the damage with the impact. So in my own opinion without watching it and going by memory ^,^;