Terminator Salvation, colon, Really Long Movie Title

[Keith]

Hahahahaha! Fully agree with those loopholes though some i didn't catch myself like why the T-600 firing on Marcus. Guess i must be dumbing myself down to Hollywood levels unconciously. nooooo.

Skynet - That isn't Skynet central is it? Its just one of its many bastions. And even if it was, since skynet is a distributed computer system, taking that down will not hamper it much.

About FM Radio though, can they really be tracked where they are being received?

I don't know about the recieving part, but the FCC used to do it all the time to stop pirate radio broadcasts.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Keith

[sharky]

The original Kyle was born post JD but not this Kyle, this kyle would have been born in 2002, 2 years before judgement day and his info would have been available to skynet.

Kyle Reese is supposed to have been born after Judgement Day in 2008 even if you follow the inconsistencies of the T3 timeline where Judgement Day is postponed due to the events of T2. You can't follow any time lines from The Sarah Connor Chronicles as it's supposed to be an alternate time line that doesn't follow the movies. SCC is where the 2002 birth date of Kyle comes from. The probability that THE Kyle Reese would be born in any other time is dumb IMO. If Kyle's parents miss the exact moment of his conception then a different baby would be born other than THE Kyle Reese who saves Sarah Connor. Heck, they could end up with a girl instead. IMO there is no possibility of this Kyle vs the Kyle of another time line.

Also, if we go by the T4 events and say that Kyle was born in 2002, there would still not be any records visually of the teen Kyle as to what he looks like in 2018. He would have been 2 years old at the time the nuclear war happens.

But the biggest problem is why not kill Kyle as soon as it identifies him? Why this elaborate rouse to lure John into Skynet's base?

The entire movie is one big plot hole because they keep changing the time line ever since T3. For example, in T2 John Connor is 10. This is clearly scene on the police computer. In T3 it's stated that the events of T2 happened when he was 13. The major weakness of the T3 and T4 is the fact that the hack writers keep changing things around to suit their fancy, and then they simply call everything an alternate reality. IMO you must stick to one frame of reference and show any changing realities from the perspective of the one time line. Otherwise, you have the mess that you have now with T3 and T4.

Edited June 2, 2009 by sharky

[Keith]

Actually, going into semantics of a specific person being born at a specific time, etc, has always been a problem with Terminator. Any way you cut it either

A: John Conner is "not" important to taking out Skynet, since he would have either had another father that was not Kyle in an initial set of events, or for some random reason Kyle would have had to have travelled back in time regardless & have a baby with Sara, in either event "the" John Conner would be a different person for the same reasons mentioned above about Kyle.

or

B: These Prophecy's are fullfilling on the basis of name alone. If you tell someone they are John Conner, and they will destroy Skynet, it will happen regardless of who their father is, or how they are born, since it's something that has to be done, and something their raised believing in/training for.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Keith

[sharky]

Actually, going into semantics of a specific person being born at a specific time, etc, has always been a problem with Terminator. Any way you cut it either

A: John Conner is "not" important to taking out Skynet, since he would have iether had another father that was not Kyle in an initial set of events, or for some random reason Kyle would have had to have travelled back in time regardless & have a baby with Sara, in either event "the" John Conner would be a different person for the same reasons mentioned above about Kyle.

or

B: These Prphec's are fullfilling on the basis of name alone. If you tell someone they are John Conner, and they will destroy Skynet, it will happen regardless of who their father is, or how they are born, since it's something that has to be done, and something their raised believing in/training for.

Agreed, it is very tiring to go through the minutia that is Terminator. I basically wrote off the franchise when T3 came out. I personally only really treat Cameron's Terminator as canon. To me the story ends when Arnold is destroyed in T2. Any new movies should have just continued on in the same time line as T2. It wouldn't really have been that hard to do something like write in that there were backup archives kept off-site for all the Cyberdyne research. That is not a far fetched idea in the least since real companies do this every day. What's so disappointing is that it seems like the damn writers never even tried to come up with some plausible scenario. It was just "oh, this sounds cool, let's throw that in the mix."

[eugimon]

Kyle Reese is supposed to have been born after Judgement Day in 2008 even if you follow the inconsistencies of the T3 timeline where Judgement Day is postponed due to the events of T2. You can't follow any time lines from The Sarah Connor Chronicles as it's supposed to be an alternate time line that doesn't follow the movies. SCC is where the 2002 birth date of Kyle comes from. The probability that THE Kyle Reese would be born in any other time is dumb IMO. If Kyle's parents miss the exact moment of his conception then a different baby would be born other than THE Kyle Reese who saves Sarah Connor. Heck, they could end up with a girl instead. IMO there is no possibility of this Kyle vs the Kyle of another time line.

Also, if we go by the T4 events and say that Kyle was born in 2002, there would still not be any records visually of the teen Kyle as to what he looks like in 2018. He would have been 2 years old at the time the nuclear war happens.

But the biggest problem is why not kill Kyle as soon as it identifies him? Why this elaborate rouse to lure John into Skynet's base?

The entire movie is one big plot hole because they keep changing the time line ever since T3. For example, in T2 John Connor is 10. This is clearly scene on the police computer. In T3 it's stated that the events of T3 happened when he was 13. The major weakness of the T3 and T4 is the fact that the hack writers keep changing things around to suit their fancy, and then they simply call everything an alternate reality. IMO you must stick to one frame of reference and show any changing realities from the perspective of the one time line. Otherwise, you have the mess that you have now with T3 and T4.

no, there would have been autopsy photos, kyle's face, dental records, finger prints, possibly DNA would have been all over police records and FBI records... from the first Kyle. With parents today doing things like prenatal genetic testing, saving core blood, etc, it's not a stretch at all that TS kyle would have left enough records behind for skynet to be able to put two and two together.

And it's not a plot hole, changing the timeline was the whole POINT of every terminator movie from the first one on. Terminator is not Trek, the continuity isn't sacred, continuity in Terminator is a plot device.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

But the biggest problem is why not kill Kyle as soon as it identifies him? Why this elaborate rouse to lure John into Skynet's base?

Yes, and why fling your #1 target around the room instead of just crushing his head once your T-800 has grabbed him?

You can also castrate Kyle _and_ then use him to lure John in.

Ahhh, forget it. Skynet is about as smart as your average movie Galactic Evil Warlord when it comes to dealing with heroes.

[sharky]

no, there would have been autopsy photos, kyle's face, dental records, finger prints, possibly DNA would have been all over police records and FBI records... from the first Kyle. With parents today doing things like prenatal genetic testing, saving core blood, etc, it's not a stretch at all that TS kyle would have left enough records behind for skynet to be able to put two and two together.

And it's not a plot hole, changing the timeline was the whole POINT of every terminator movie from the first one on. Terminator is not Trek, the continuity isn't sacred, continuity in Terminator is a plot device.

You mean from records that got destroyed in a nuclear blast that Skynet initiated just after becoming self aware?

There were 3 time traveling events in the movie timeline. None of which would have changed Kyle's birthdate nor the fact of John Connor's age during the events of T2. The point is changing future events by changing the past not changing past events in the future.

Edited June 1, 2009 by sharky

[dreamweaver13]

Just saw the movie. i found it ok, and a worthy addition to the franchise. i didn't delve too much on any plot holes arising from the time continuum... because you can never get it perfectly right when time travel is involved (there's just too many possible inconsistencies and time paradox), so i decided not to let it bother me anymore.

My observations:

-- Dammit, the writers/director turned chicken at the last second. It seems they were already building up for the ultimate twist at the end (connor dies, markus takes his place as leader of the resistance). At that point in the movie when Connor gets impaled that suddenly got me sitting straight on my seat, thinking to myself, "oh my god, are they really gonna to this?? OMG, OMG...." and so on and so forth. Sure, there's this part of me that was saying "John Connor dead?? Blasphemy!!"; but a bigger part of me was already thinking, "wow, these guys have gajones to pull of something like this." And to think that the leader of the resistance (who i guess would adopt the name John Connor, for the sake of morale) was a terminator??? WOW. blows the mind.

So in this sense, yes, i'm really disappointed that the writers did not follow through with killing John Connor. If Connor (Christian Bale) did enough to begin his own legend, and allowed the terminator to take his name and continue his fight, wouldn't it be the same in the long run? and wouldn't it also add to the legend of John Connor as the invincible leader of the resistance?

If they had killed of Bale's John Connor, I would have considered this movie as a brilliant starting point for the resurgence of the franchise (much like Abrams did with Star Trek). But since they didn't, i'll just write it off as a good movie, and a good sequel in the franchise.

-- This rarely happens, but i think this time the movie was a bit too short. I felt that TS had several lofy ambitions. First, it wanted to depict John Connor as a messianic and prophetic leader who didn't have full and absolute leadership yet. Much like Neo in Matrix Reloaded. Second, they had the concept of the infiltrator terminator, the first of its kind. An actual human who became a terminator, dealing with issues of his humanity. Third, there was the concept of John Connor's reliance on his mom's vision of the future, and placed against the fact that everything has changed, and that the future isn't the same one Sarah Connor predicted.

I got the general idea, and I felt what the director was trying to do. But i feel that the concepts/conflicts were not sufficiently developed. A few more scenes could have been added to develop these issues more fully, and to come up with a more satisfying movie experience. if there will be a longer director's cut somewhere along the line, count me in.

[eugimon]

You mean from records that got destroyed in a nuclear blast that Skynet initiated just after becoming self aware?

There were 3 time traveling events in the movie timeline. None of which would have changed Kyle's birthdate nor the fact of John Connor's age during the events of T2. The point is changing future events by changing the past not changing past events in the future.

sarcasm doesn't change the fact that TX interfaced with the police computers and then interfaced with skynet before judgment day.

You can bitch and moan all you want, but all of these supposed plot holes are patched up neatly if you just watch and accept the information given on screen instead of acting like a petulant child about a completely made up fantasy world.

[sharky]

sarcasm doesn't change the fact that TX interfaced with the police computers and then interfaced with skynet before judgment day.

You can bitch and moan all you want, but all of these supposed plot holes are patched up neatly if you just watch and accept the information given on screen instead of acting like a petulant child about a completely made up fantasy world.

It's not a fact that TX new anything about Kyle Reese. All these records and documents about Kyle Reese that may or may be readily accessible via a network and TX finding out about it is your speculation. It was never established in the movie that TX uploaded info on Kyle Reese to Skynet. The real Skynet that was totally self aware wasn't even activated until the military decided to completely go live in order to combat the virus that was attacking. This was at the very end of the movie. The TX used the existing network to track down the future generals and military leaders. She wasn't even looking for John. It was pure luck that John Conner happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when the TX was going after his future wife.

I'm not bitching and moaning. You're doing that. If you've run out of ways to support the plot holes in TS just say so. I am trying to follow the events of the movies as is presented, but that's where everything gets stuck in plot holes that began with T3 and continues into TS. You're the one coming up with speculation to support the plot of TS.

If you don't care so much about the story why are you arguing with me so much? I was a big fan of the Terminator movies until these last 2 movies came out. After watching TS I almost thought it wasn't that bad, but then I started thinking about how dumb the story is. That's what is so disappointing.

[wolfx]

Sharky has a point. It wasn't explicitly mentioned on film about how Skynet knew about Kyle Reese thus any fan-wank theories are just that. Fan-wank theories.

In fact I don't think McG even came up with that much thought as the fans did.

[dreamweaver13]

Sharky has a point. It wasn't explicitly mentioned on film about how Skynet knew about Kyle Reese thus any fan-wank theories are just that. Fan-wank theories.

In fact I don't think McG even came up with that much thought as the fans did.

huh? didn't you know? Sarah Connor actually placed his name in John Connor's birth certificate as the father. and she even stated that Kyle Reese was born in 2010. Well, she has this obsessive compulsive thing for being honest, what can ya do?

[Uxi]

JIt sat down better with me after knowing this took place in 2018 , before the war escalates further in 2029 where the Resistance was more desperate. I'll just say "Cameron's Future War" has not happened yet...and will happen eventually....hopefully.

Hopefully!

[badboy00z]

I was just thinking, isn't the whole Terminator story just a never ending loop?

[christ]

I just read online that this indeed was the original end of an earlier script- John Connor dies from his wound and they actually pull his skin off and put it on the Marcus endo body. Then the whole movie revolving around Marcus makes sense and you've got an almost impervious John Connor with terminator strength to lead the resistance.

A terminator leading the resistance. Awesome. a little bit like the finale of this season of Heroes. But apparently the story leaked and they changed the plot.

Too much change, I guess. They had to stay conventional.

Just saw the movie. i found it ok, and a worthy addition to the franchise. i didn't delve too much on any plot holes arising from the time continuum... because you can never get it perfectly right when time travel is involved (there's just too many possible inconsistencies and time paradox), so i decided not to let it bother me anymore.

My observations:

-- Dammit, the writers/director turned chicken at the last second. It seems they were already building up for the ultimate twist at the end (connor dies, markus takes his place as leader of the resistance). At that point in the movie when Connor gets impaled that suddenly got me sitting straight on my seat, thinking to myself, "oh my god, are they really gonna to this?? OMG, OMG...." and so on and so forth. Sure, there's this part of me that was saying "John Connor dead?? Blasphemy!!"; but a bigger part of me was already thinking, "wow, these guys have gajones to pull of something like this." And to think that the leader of the resistance (who i guess would adopt the name John Connor, for the sake of morale) was a terminator??? WOW. blows the mind.

So in this sense, yes, i'm really disappointed that the writers did not follow through with killing John Connor. If Connor (Christian Bale) did enough to begin his own legend, and allowed the terminator to take his name and continue his fight, wouldn't it be the same in the long run? and wouldn't it also add to the legend of John Connor as the invincible leader of the resistance?

If they had killed of Bale's John Connor, I would have considered this movie as a brilliant starting point for the resurgence of the franchise (much like Abrams did with Star Trek). But since they didn't, i'll just write it off as a good movie, and a good sequel in the franchise.

-- This rarely happens, but i think this time the movie was a bit too short. I felt that TS had several lofy ambitions. First, it wanted to depict John Connor as a messianic and prophetic leader who didn't have full and absolute leadership yet. Much like Neo in Matrix Reloaded. Second, they had the concept of the infiltrator terminator, the first of its kind. An actual human who became a terminator, dealing with issues of his humanity. Third, there was the concept of John Connor's reliance on his mom's vision of the future, and placed against the fact that everything has changed, and that the future isn't the same one Sarah Connor predicted.

I got the general idea, and I felt what the director was trying to do. But i feel that the concepts/conflicts were not sufficiently developed. A few more scenes could have been added to develop these issues more fully, and to come up with a more satisfying movie experience. if there will be a longer director's cut somewhere along the line, count me in.

[dreamweaver13]

I just read online that this indeed was the original end of an earlier script- John Connor dies from his wound and they actually pull his skin off and put it on the Marcus endo body. Then the whole movie revolving around Marcus makes sense and you've got an almost impervious John Connor with terminator strength to lead the resistance.

A terminator leading the resistance. Awesome. a little bit like the finale of this season of Heroes. But apparently the story leaked and they changed the plot.

Too much change, I guess. They had to stay conventional.

the more you say it, the more i'm disappointed. ok, so they have plans for a new trilogy starting from TS, right? but what will they come up with for the next ones? yet another class of terminator? sigh. on the other hand, if they had killed connor, the franchise could go on beautifully even without a new terminator... because the hero is one. the whole idea of it is fascinating. It's like in Code Geass, where

suzaku lives on in secret as Zero

.

and if, as you say, they would have pulled off Connor's skin to put it over markus, then Christian Bale could still be in the movie.... as a terminator/john connor. how awesome would that have been?

hmmm.... oh well, here's to hoping that halfway through the TS sequel, John Connor gets severely injured and realizes that he's a terminator inside.

Kate Connor: "well... you see... john connor actually died on the operating table. you're markus, but you wanted to be reprogrammed to be connor, so there.... by the way, i'd like some terminator lovin' now, if you know what i mean."

Edited June 3, 2009 by dreamweaver13

[wolfx]

Kate Connor: "well... you see... john connor actually died in the operating table. you're markus, but you wanted to be reprogrammed to be connor, so there.... by the way, i'd like some terminator lovin' now, if you know what i mean."

That's still possible that its scary.

christ: really? That would've been mind blowing...and might've caused some raging amongst fans....then again how in the world are the resistance gonna do face-off surgery on Markus?

Edited June 3, 2009 by wolfx

[shiroikaze]

Kate Connor: "well... you see... john connor actually died in the operating table. you're markus, but you wanted to be reprogrammed to be connor, so there.... by the way, i'd like some terminator lovin' now, if you know what i mean."

That's quite hard to grasp...

Honestly, as awesome as Conner = Marcus sounds, I actually prefer the theatrical ending. Even though it may be for an earnest, human reason, but taking over Conner's identity seems more Terminator-like really... (I kinda see the irony there)

Edited June 3, 2009 by shiroikaze

[dreamweaver13]

That's quite hard to grasp...

Honestly, as awesome as Conner = Marcus sounds, I actually prefer the theatrical ending. Even though it may be for an earnest, human reason, but taking over Conner's identity seems more Terminator-like really... (I kinda see the irony there)

i wouldn't really mind connor surviving if the whole movie was already going that way... but while watching it, i could see the focus of the movie was as much on markus as it was on connor. i mean, the movie started with markus. all the way from the start it felt like markus's movie, and when john connor got impaled a metal spike, everything seemed to make sense (of course, yes, there's this underlying rage that's screaming, "you can't kill john connor!!), and if he did die, it would make sense. Markus's dark past, his yearning for a second chance, and his reluctant heroism (from indifference to risking his life to save kyle reese and the kid). Markus's character was ever moving, ever developing into someone that could very well lead humanity to victory.

on the other hand, john connor was the static character, holding on to what little he knows about the future, and realizing it just wasn't enough. the future has changed, so what he learned from his mother isn't necessarily right anymore. he felt like a character already despairing that he won't be able to fulfill his detiny anymore, because the game has changed, and he hasn't. and the way he is now, he can't lead them to victory.

But markus is stronger, and has more information about the current state of skynet. let's face it, the resistance could have used him much more than connor.

this is where the movie bothered me. you could feel that it was setting markus up to replace john connor at the end. and it would feel right, somehow. you would be in disbelief, you would rage at how the hell they could have killed John Connor, but deep down the movie would have made sense.

i'm reminded of one of my favorite quotes from Sandman: "Charitably...I think...sometimes, perhaps, one must change or die. And, in the end, there were, perhaps,

limits to how much he could let himself change."

To give the resistance a chance to win this "new" war against the machines, connor should either change or die. and if connor died, and markus took his place, connor would have, in effect, done both.

I'm not espousing the "john connor should have died" side of things just for the sake of a major twist at the end, or because it would be awesome (and yes, it would be). i'm for it, because the rest of the movie told me that that's what should have happened. the ending seems disjointed from the rest of the movie, in my opinion.

[realdeal]

I for one think that John Conner turning into a robot is one of the most terrible ideas ever! Seriously, we are in a war versus terminators, so we make our leader a terminator? No one on the resistance would allow that, and how could anyone trust it? It also takes away the man vs. machine/technology conflict, and without that would you really have a story?

[christ]

I for one think that John Conner turning into a robot is one of the most terrible ideas ever! Seriously, we are in a war versus terminators, so we make our leader a terminator? No one on the resistance would allow that, and how could anyone trust it? It also takes away the man vs. machine/technology conflict, and without that would you really have a story?

Here's the source for the alternate ending- also it goes even further with John connor/marcus waking up and shooting kate and kyle reese when they come in to see "john connor" after his surgery! He was the ultimate infiltration unit- he convinced the leader of the resistance that he was a good-hearted terminator, had his wife put her husband's skin on his body, and then turned and killed them all.

Bleak, baby. Bleak.

http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2009/05/the...lternate+ending

[dreamweaver13]

Here's the source for the alternate ending- also it goes even further with John connor/marcus waking up and shooting kate and kyle reese when they come in to see "john connor" after his surgery! He was the ultimate infiltration unit- he convinced the leader of the resistance that he was a good-hearted terminator, had his wife put her husband's skin on his body, and then turned and killed them all.

Bleak, baby. Bleak.

http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2009/05/the...lternate+ending

haha. wicked. ok i wouldn't go that far. that would have killed the franchise, and i am glad it didn't happen. and that's an example of having a twist just for the sake of having one.

but markus becoming the new john connor (and for real, without him turning trigger-happy terminator all of a sudden) would still have been the better move, than either that bleak ending, or the final movie ending. imo.

Edited June 3, 2009 by dreamweaver13

[aerocombatpilot]

I have not seen the movie yet, just a ton of trailers and specials about it, and I have a question to ask: In that famous scene in T2 where we see a human skull being crushed by the foot of a terminator robot, how can a human survive a punch from one of these machines? If the foot of a terminator can crush a skull, surely it's fist could go through a human

with no problems, yet in all the previews I have seen, shows somebody being socked by a terminator and living through it. How?

[dreamweaver13]

I have not seen the movie yet, just a ton of trailers and specials about it, and I have a question to ask: In that famous scene in T2 where we see a human skull being crushed by the foot of a terminator robot, how can a human survive a punch from one of these machines? If the foot of a terminator can crush a skull, surely it's fist could go through a human

with no problems, yet in all the previews I have seen, shows somebody being socked by a terminator and living through it. How?

waitaminute, can't an ordinary human step on a skull (assuming it's a relatively old skull) and crush it all the same? Honest question here, i really don't know the answer.

i'm trying to remember from TS who got punched by a terminator and lived through it. connor was only thrown, if i remember correctly.

[aerocombatpilot]

waitaminute, can't an ordinary human step on a skull (assuming it's a relatively old skull) and crush it all the same? Honest question here, i really don't know the answer.

i'm trying to remember from TS who got punched by a terminator and lived through it. connor was only thrown, if i remember correctly.

Well, maybe that's the scene they show in the trailer. It looks like the Terminator throws a punch, and the guy goes flying!

I thought to myself that the guy was surely dead; guess I make it to the theaters this weekend to see it. Thanks!

[realdeal]

Here's the source for the alternate ending- also it goes even further with John connor/marcus waking up and shooting kate and kyle reese when they come in to see "john connor" after his surgery! He was the ultimate infiltration unit- he convinced the leader of the resistance that he was a good-hearted terminator, had his wife put her husband's skin on his body, and then turned and killed them all.

Bleak, baby. Bleak.

http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2009/05/the...lternate+ending

That's just messed up!

[wolfx]

haha. wicked. ok i wouldn't go that far. that would have killed the franchise, and i am glad it didn't happen. and that's an example of having a twist just for the sake of having one.

but markus becoming the new john connor (and for real, without him turning trigger-happy terminator all of a sudden) would still have been the better move, than either that bleak ending, or the final movie ending. imo.

I'm on the fence for this. If the "bleak ending" happened, the big plot hole about Skynet having lousy defences wouldn't be there. It would also generate enough shock factor to make fans rage but at least it will have a lasting impression on the fanbase. But by Connor, Reese and Kate getting killed, that would kill the franchise and the machines basically won....how are they going to continue the next 2 movies?

If it was just Marcus wearing Connor's skin, i think its more bearable. It would also somewhat fit in to the canon of the story since "John Connor" still continues fighting for the resistance.

waitaminute, can't an ordinary human step on a skull (assuming it's a relatively old skull) and crush it all the same? Honest question here, i really don't know the answer.

i'm trying to remember from TS who got punched by a terminator and lived through it. connor was only thrown, if i remember correctly.

Marcus punched those punks that wanted to raped Blair and they seemed pretty much fine.

[dreamweaver13]

Marcus punched those punks that wanted to raped Blair and they seemed pretty much fine.

I don't think Markus is a strong as the other terminator models. either that, or he doesn't know how strong he is yet.

[Hikuro]

And sadly he'll probably never know.

[wolfx]

I don't think Markus is a strong as the other terminator models. either that, or he doesn't know how strong he is yet.

Well he DID break the neck of a T-800 which was otherwise indestructable.

[dreamweaver13]

Well he DID break the neck of a T-800 which was otherwise indestructable.

haha. oh yeah, i guess he knew then.

which makes me wonder more why the resistance would so easily dismantle a potentially powerful (and seemingly loyal) ally. couldn't someone else have offered his heart for connor for the sake of the resistance? when push comes to shove, his loyal followers ain't all that. haha.

[dreamweaver13]

And sadly he'll probably never know.

i wonder if they'll keep sam worthington in the sequel as.. i dunno, a pure terminator. he still got to keep his brain and cpu, right?

a tin man in search of his heart. how's that for a unique concept?

[VFTF1]

Going to see this on Friday.

Very excited.

Pete

[sharky]

I have not seen the movie yet, just a ton of trailers and specials about it, and I have a question to ask: In that famous scene in T2 where we see a human skull being crushed by the foot of a terminator robot, how can a human survive a punch from one of these machines? If the foot of a terminator can crush a skull, surely it's fist could go through a human

with no problems, yet in all the previews I have seen, shows somebody being socked by a terminator and living through it. How?

That skull that got crushed was incinerated in a nuclear blast so I would think it's probably cracked and very brittle. Still a terminator's weight might be enough to crush a skull if it stomped on it like that. Not completely sure.

You are probably right about a terminator being able to punch through a human, but I think that it might also have to do with leverage. You may have to hold a person from being thrown back from the force perhaps. We did see a terminator punch through a human in T3, but she made had her fingers pointed straight IIRC rather than a fist which would distribute the load preventing actual penetration perhaps.

Maybe you saw Marcus being socked in the trailer? Marcus is a hybrid terminator.

[Bowen]

That skull that got crushed was incinerated in a nuclear blast so I would think it's probably cracked and very brittle. Still a terminator's weight might be enough to crush a skull if it stomped on it like that. Not completely sure.

You are probably right about a terminator being able to punch through a human, but I think that it might also have to do with leverage. You may have to hold a person from being thrown back from the force perhaps. We did see a terminator punch through a human in T3, but she made had her fingers pointed straight IIRC rather than a fist which would distribute the load preventing actual penetration perhaps.

Maybe you saw Marcus being socked in the trailer? Marcus is a hybrid terminator.

Didn't Ahnold actually punch through some dude when he wanted clothes in T1?

EDIT: Just checked on Youtube, it appears he did