Best Main Battle Tank in The World

[Ratchet]

At the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.

You're kidding, right?

[Warmaker]

It wouldn't surprise me.

We sink ships all the time to be artificial reefs. Even old aircraft carriers on rare occasions.

[Mislovrit]

You're kidding, right?

I wish I was, Clinton had order them and a metric buttload of usable (saleable) hardware including the M60s A-6 Intruders and etc. dumped into the Gulf. What hurts more the M60s had just born rebuilt before the order was given like the A-6s.

[Mislovrit]

We need an M1 based recovery vehicle far more than a flame tank (I was actually envisioning using M60 or tuna boat chassis myself.

Already got an M1 based recovery vehicle the Grizzly, whether or not the Army actually bother to ask for any and got them is another story.

The flechette-filled beehive round would be second to none for massed concentrations of troops, though. Git'r Done!

Have to made do with tungsten ball-bearings in the canister round.

[Uxi]

I know the prototypes were done but Congress never funded them. We still use the M88 (on it's 4th or 5th variation, bigger power packs,e tc)... they just are too small to effectively tow an Abrams.. I've seen them lose controls, spin out, go sliding, etc. They're great at getting out a stuck Abrams and pulling the engine out, but for towing the best tool in the field is usually another Abrams.

[Ratchet]

Anybody notice the Patton MBTs in Transformers 2007?

[Warmaker]

I didn't notice any M60 tanks in the movie, though the "movie quality" where I saw it at wasn't too great. All I recall seeing were the rows of Abrams parked.

As for actually climbing into a tank, the only time I've done so were the MCAS El Toro (miss those days) and MCAS Miramar airshows. Since the airshows were from Marine installations, the USMC wanted to show the whole MAGTF thing (Marine Air Ground Task Force), which meant the grunts and all could come down for some fun with their toys... fancy guns, LAV's, and of course the crowd pleasing M1 Abrams. When I get off working the airshow, sometimes I got off early enough to walk from work to the displays. Get to BS with the groundside guys and climb around.

I've built alot of models of the Abrams so I had alot of fun climbing around and sitting in the Commander's Cupola, pretending I knew what I was doing since I was in uniform still

As for the Miramar Airshow for this year, missed it since I'm deployed. I wanted to see the F-22 fly.

I would like to check out a Leopard 2A5 or A6, simply because they look so sexy for a panzer

Edited October 18, 2007 by Warmaker

[Ratchet]

I think they were M-48s, but I'm not sure. They appeared when the Qatar military base was attacked by that helicopter Decepticon?

[Ratchet]

Uploading captured DVD images....

more...

and lastly...

They're 60s:

So much for the 60s being dumped in the Gulf of Mexico. Michael Bay has them.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Ratchet

[Mislovrit]

So much for the 60s being dumped in the Gulf of Mexico. Michael Bay has them.

The U.S. sold a butt load of M48s and M60s before Clinton got elected and even some more before he wrote the order to dump the majority of the remainder into the Gulf. Most of the Pattons seen in movies for the past couple of decade unless otherwise noted are usually someone else's than Uncle Sam's.

[Warmaker]

Yeah, the US were putting out M48's and M60's for wide distribution back in the height of the Cold War era. I never thought the M60's were that big until I finally saw one at a display. This was after I had climbed around an M1. The 60's definiely had a tall silhouette.

Nice catch about the M60's in Bayformers.

Regarding American tanks: Even as a kid, I was amused at seeing WWII movies with the Germans using American tanks as Panzers. Battle of the Bulge was a big examle. Yes, I understand the reasoning (Germany lost, most of the Panzers lost). But since I built alot of models of Shermans thru M60A3s, I could ID American tanks right away as a kid. Kinda scary Still, I had a soft spot with the M24 Chaffee. I had fun building that model in 1/72 and it was the only tank model I played "cars" with. And it stood up to the punishment as well!

Edited October 19, 2007 by Warmaker

[Uxi]

Heh, wonder if I did a dog & pony for you, warmaker? When would this have been? I did many a dog & pony at Miramar when i would get voluntold for such things. And it was pretty cool, especially helping hot chics.

If you ever see an FSU tank in person, their small size will amaze. They're tiny compared to the Abrams. The 60 is nice and roomy on the inside but that thin armor and high profile make me very uncomfy. Some of the old schoolers (the Marines kept the M60s all the way through Desert Storm so many of the top staff NCO/officers are still biased) still swear by those things, amazingly enough. We met up with the Queen's Royal Lancers (with Challenger II's) outside Basra and they were pretty cool, but that multipiece ammo sounds like a major PITA, especially when things get chaotic in a fire fight....

[Warmaker]

Heh, wonder if I did a dog & pony for you, warmaker? When would this have been? I did many a dog & pony at Miramar when i would get voluntold for such things. And it was pretty cool, especially helping hot chics.

If you ever see an FSU tank in person, their small size will amaze. They're tiny compared to the Abrams. The 60 is nice and roomy on the inside but that thin armor and high profile make me very uncomfy. Some of the old schoolers (the Marines kept the M60s all the way through Desert Storm so many of the top staff NCO/officers are still biased) still swear by those things, amazingly enough. We met up with the Queen's Royal Lancers (with Challenger II's) outside Basra and they were pretty cool, but that multipiece ammo sounds like a major PITA, especially when things get chaotic in a fire fight....

I was in MCAS El Toro from 1994 until 1997. The airshows were massive at El Toro, IMO completely dwarfing Miramar's.

I've been stationed at MCAS Miramar since 2000, but I've been off and on with attending the airshow.

Either way, I usually go through the groundside of the static displays when I do attend (or work).

As for the Abrams and M60s for the Corps, I do recall reading an old Marine Corps Gazette and then-Commandant, Gen.Al Gray (who some old Marines still swear "was the sh!t"), talking about the pro's and con's of switching to the M1. He loved the capability of the M1 but was dismayed by the weight But as you experienced, he went with the M1 despite the weight issues.

Speaking of Marine Tankers, I just remembered someone I used to know from the late 90s. I had a buddy in VMGR-234 (reserve KC-130T squadron in NASJRB Ft Worth, Texas) who was a -130 Powerplant mech. He was a lat mover from being an Abrams tanker, and IIRC, got as far as being a gunner. He said he loved it, driving 60+ tons of hate & discontent, blowing sh!t up, causing hate & discontent. I still remember him since he was quite special. He was born at and raised many years somewhere in England. He still had a thick English accent despite being on a second contract with the USMC (at the very least 4-5 years at least living in the USA when I met him). Always corrected us on "Proper English"

[Mislovrit]

I never thought the M60's were that big until I finally saw one at a display. This was after I had climbed around an M1. The 60's definiely had a tall silhouette.

The Pattons and even the Abrams are puny next to a M103 heavy tank destroyer or couple of the MBT-70 prototypes.

[Mislovrit]

If you ever see an FSU tank in person, their small size will amaze. They're tiny compared to the Abrams.

What tank, I keep getting web pages for Florida State Uni instead of the tank.

The 60 is nice and roomy on the inside but that thin armor and high profile make me very uncomfy.

The M60 did have nice ergonomics thanks to the large size, in addition to higher vantage point, wider range with the gun elevation and depression. M60 did have moderately thick armor especially when compare to the Leopard I, only the British Chieftain made them look thin.

Some of the old schoolers (the Marines kept the M60s all the way through Desert Storm so many of the top staff NCO/officers are still biased) still swear by those things, amazingly enough.

I heard the same thing which may have been true in the mid 80ies to maybe ODS, but afterward, even they rather be in a M1A1 instead of a M60A1/3.

but that multi piece ammo sounds like a major PITA, especially when things get chaotic in a fire fight....

to single piece users it may look like it is PITA but for two piece users it nothing.

[Ratchet]

Invisible Tank?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1811

[F-ZeroOne]

The UK satire show "Have I Got News For You" had fun with this - "Behave, President Putin, or we'll send in millions of our invisible tanks! In fact, they could already be there!"