LIVE ACTION ROBOTECH (WB gets the rights)

[MisaForever]

Stupidity + Greed + Bad Moviemaking = Transformers. So your comment does not compute.

So far, the first two parts of the equation are in place for Robotech...dare we expect the third? I think we dare. Or, at least, I dare.

Well, it's ok. I forgive you since you're incorrect but don't know any better.

[stray]

Why does everyone assume a straight adaption will work? It wont. ever. You cant just take a script from something, plonk it in front of cameras an expect a live action flick. if the transformers had looked like their animated counterparts in CG it would have looked aweful and cartoony. And people would have complained.

Thats why we have Lawrence Kasdan, probably the only person who could "adapt" George Lucas' special effects obsession into good movies...

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Some censoring is not the issue. The issue is pointless rewrites and the terrible idea of connecting three unrelated series. The fact that it took more effort to do that than releasing three shows under the same name makes me wonder why they did it.

If the only requirement is to market toys and models, then you have a lot of options. They could have released it as an anthology series. Hell, they could have bought two more shows and made a Force Five style space opera five-days-a-week thing. The big problem is Carl Macek is a hack and he thinks his dubs are great. I'll never forgive him for what he did to the Fist of the North Star movie. I'll give you the smell of death, Mr. Tweed Jacket.

I'm grateful with Karl Macek (in a metaphysical sort of way) for bringing those three shows to my house in a time when there was such an immense cultural gap between occident and the far east, and most cartoons in the west were too lame for their time. As some people know, I'm a comic book artist and for me Robotech was like a breathe of fresh air in a sunken submarine.

I can speak only for myself, but I think what irritates people the most about Macek is that attitude of treating Robotech as his sole creation. I learned about Macross and the rest of the series several years later I first saw Robotech, and I blame Karl Macek for it. Not to mention all the legal obstacles he put to keep Macross, Southern Cross and Mospeada products from being produced or commercialized stateside. That's maybe legal but for me it's immoral. The guy is a mediocre writer and businessman IMHO.

[terry the lone wolf]

Some censoring is not the issue. The issue is pointless rewrites and the terrible idea of connecting three unrelated series. The fact that it took more effort to do that than releasing three shows under the same name makes me wonder why they did it.

If the only requirement is to market toys and models, then you have a lot of options. They could have released it as an anthology series. Hell, they could have bought two more shows and made a Force Five style space opera five-days-a-week thing. The big problem is Carl Macek is a hack and he thinks his dubs are great. I'll never forgive him for what he did to the Fist of the North Star movie. I'll give you the smell of death, Mr. Tweed Jacket.

I gotta say this we have to cut HG slack because during that period in time their hands were tied. They had to adhere to the programming rules of having 80 plus episodes to air. So they edited together three unrelated shows whose only real connection is that they were distributed all by Tatsunoko Prod. Now HG wasn't the only company doing that; World Events tied together GoLion and DaiRugger(there would've of been a third super robot series added to if not for WE optioning a new season of Lion Voltron exclusive to the international market). I've heard before maybe Carl Macek could've done the "Force Five" method of showcasing unrelated shows and maybe that could've worked. At that time I've never heard of the FF shows(I think they were being shown on cable back then) but Robotech was across the board. The loose continuity was okay for the time(and very young minds) for it gave a sense of connection. When I got older, yeah, I saw the mistakes in continuity but it still didn't stop my enjoyment of the show.

[Roger]

I can speak only for myself, but I think what irritates people the most about Macek is that attitude of treating Robotech as his sole creation. I learned about Macross and the rest of the series several years later I first saw Robotech, and I blame Karl Macek for it. Not to mention all the legal obstacles he put to keep Macross, Southern Cross and Mospeada products from being produced or commercialized stateside. That's maybe legal but for me it's immoral. The guy is a mediocre writer and businessman IMHO.

You're painting a pretty distorted picture here. If you're referring to the efforts that Harmony Gold made to prevent Macross items from being imported a while back, Carl Macek had nothing to do with any of that. He hadn't worked there in years.

Furthermore, I can't think of any Macross, Southern Cross, or MOSPEADA items that were prevented from being produced by Harmony Gold.

And how is it immoral to protect your company's intellectual property?

[Roger]

IIRC, the decision to tie all three shows together was a joint one made by Revell and Harmony Gold. Having a show to sell that was more than 65 episodes long ensured that it could be stripped in daily syndication. It worked for He-Man, Transformers, and G.I. Joe, and they were aiming to capture the same mind share.

After the decision was made, Macek was hired to rewrite everything (at breakneck pace, BTW) and get the shows ready for broadcast. You may not agree with the ideas that he used to accomplish this, but it was a pretty impressive feat, especially given the time and resource constraints that he had.

And hey, we might not even have Macrossworld if that didn't happen. ;p

[terry the lone wolf]

IIRC, the decision to tie all three shows together was a joint one made by Revell and Harmony Gold. Having a show to sell that was more than 65 episodes long ensured that it could be stripped in daily syndication. It worked for He-Man, Transformers, and G.I. Joe, and they were aiming to capture the same mind share.

After the decision was made, Macek was hired to rewrite everything (at breakneck pace, BTW) and get the shows ready for broadcast. You may not agree with the ideas that he used to accomplish this, but it was a pretty impressive feat, especially given the time and resource constraints that he had.

And hey, we might not even have Macrossworld if that didn't happen. ;p

Cheers Roger! I couldn't have said it better than that!

[fifbeat]

And hey, we might not even have Macrossworld if that didn't happen. ;p

Exactly.

[TheLoneWolf]

Furthermore, I can't think of any Macross, Southern Cross, or MOSPEADA items that were prevented from being produced by Harmony Gold.

Also, you should ask Kevin from Valkyrie-Exchange if still has the letter that Harmony Gold sent him in 2002 demanding that he immediately stop selling any and all Macross toys.

And how is it immoral to protect your company's intellectual property?

It's not if your company actually owns the intellectual property. But it was deceitful and wreckless for Harmony Gold to "protect" Macross Plus when they clearly did not have the rights to that property.

[fifbeat]

What's "Toycom"... I don't get it. Explain the ad.

[Roger]

It's not if your company actually owns the intellectual property. But it was deceitful and wreckless for Harmony Gold to "protect" Macross Plus when they clearly did not have the rights to that property.

Apparently they do have the rights since Macross Plus was a sequel to the original Macross, and their original agreement with Tatsunoko gave them the rights to derivative works outside of Japan.

Yamato must recognize it, too, otherwise they'd be selling Macross Plus toys through Yamato-USA or Sunwards, wouldn't they? Organic would be selling those Macross Plus Revoltechs here, too, but as far as I know, they don't.

I really don't understand the consternation over this. Has it actually been difficult for Macrossworld readers to obtain things like Yamato Macross toys and other Japanese products?

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

HG do deserve to be bashed for stopping macross imports imo.

But for a lot of people, RT was a part of their childhood and helped them get into macross.

Are there any japanese fans of robotech that actually like the "protoculture as a magic battery that three warring alien races are trying to compete for" idea?

I mean I don't think it's such a bad idea and can see some similiarities with halo where you have 3 main alien species wrestling for control. (similar to how you might have a human rush for oil) You see that influence in starcraft too where you have the Protoss (who I will think of as close to robotech masters because they seem to be the most intelligent and sophisticated) the zerg (invid! most organic aliens and the psychic abilities) and terran. (the Robotech Defense Force!)

I'm surprised there isn't a Robotech RTS game out yet. Destroids vs Glaug vs Invid fights would be interesting.

Edited June 19, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I really don't understand the consternation over this. Has it actually been difficult for Macrossworld readers to obtain things like Yamato Macross toys and other Japanese products?

Not lately but maybe they've changed their tune since the past and don't send those letters anymore? What's the story with the cease and desist letters? Do they still do that now?

I'm glad we can have both macross and robotech co-exist in the same market so there is some choice. Now that they've made shadow chronicles and own the mospeada rights they can make their universe different from macross.

I just see it as this:

Overseas fans of macross are not the same as fans of robotech. If you saw SDF:macross as a kid but as an adult just happen to live outside japan you must be really angry for having HG claim that RT and macross are one and the same. (when RT is just a seperate universe that uses designs from original shows) Having them stop macross items is morally (maybe not legally? and maybe not good for business?) wrong and bad. You are just an innocent fan trying to get a toy from japan over here similar to a kid who makes a zelda or walt disney fan website getting told you are unauthorised to use images that you don't own. (where's the harm really?) Sure it's in the owner's interest to protect IP, but common sense tells you that these are just fans not people trying to steal your ideas and profit from them like the guy at the fleamarket selling t-shirts with your images on them who didn't pay for a license and actually trying to rip you off and profit on something that isn't his.

Fans want to support your show and help get others into it. It's partly because HG forgot all about robotech by not doing anytthing with it that demand for all the toys went up. It's like, what's the point of having the rights to something if you don't do something? Look how long it has taken for alpha/beta toys for example. Fans will support if you do something, but at the end of the day: if they can't get it local, the quality stinks, they will go import. It would have been good if years ago you could get the bandai chunky monkey as a robotech toy, then there would be a lot of happy kids. But a lot of those kids now grew up and angry that they couldn't own a vf-1 and just said "forget it, I'm going to import everything" because they are sick of waiting ages.

Legally yes, maybe they might have the high ground, but morally the fans who have waited a long time lost patience and feel like they shouldn't have to take this. I mean in Macross Plus the sdf-1 is still standing? Totally different universe. Not robotech where the SDF-1 was destroyed and SDF-2 was made. I want macross plus to be macross plus not robotech plus. Robotech can then be a seperate universe where rick/hikaru was able to age and they can continue in a different direction.

So instead of have the butchered version of "macross plus" (with robotech footage shoe-horned in) a person can just buy macross plus, frontier whatever in original form outside japan... and also have robotech stuff alongside it. (shadow chronicles, robotech spin-off games, new robotech tv series etc) But not mix the worlds together. Times have changed: anime is a little more mainstream, dvds have come out and people want options, they are more spoilt for choices and want access to as many things they remembered but with subs and no censorship. It's time to change and allow the robotech universe to be independent from the macross universe which isn't always going to fit with the direction robotech was going with anyway. (although I admit the usage of bugs in frontier could have been used as a new evolved form of invid )

Edited June 19, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[TheLoneWolf]

Apparently they do have the rights since Macross Plus was a sequel to the original Macross, and their original agreement with Tatsunoko gave them the rights to derivative works outside of Japan.

I can't find a link to the original Japanese court ruling, but IIRC, the court ruled that "derivatives" extended only to SDF and DYRL. If the court ruled that derivatives extended to Macross Plus, then I'm surprised that Harmony Gold hasn't capitalized on the Plus franchise through the use of comics and other merchandise.

Yamato must recognize it, too, otherwise they'd be selling Macross Plus toys through Yamato-USA or Sunwards, wouldn't they?

I can't speak for Yamato, while they probably realize that they could challenge Harmony Gold, they'd rather avoid a potentially costly litigation process. Again, if Harmony Gold has the rights to Macross Plus, then why haven't they released a single Macross Plus product?

Has it actually been difficult for Macrossworld readers to obtain things like Yamato Macross toys and other Japanese products?

No, but we could obtain Yamato toys at a much lower price.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Again, if Harmony Gold has the rights to Macross Plus, then why haven't they released a single Macross Plus product?

Well it's not part of the robotech universe maybe? There are no guld or dyson people renamed as robotech characters.

Oh no I don't want to give them any ideas.. (they might make a robotech sidestory like with megazone )

Edited June 19, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Scream Man]

What ive always found odd, is it is a crime at Macrossworld to be a fan of both shows. I like Macross for a lot of reasons, but i also like Robotech for a lot of reasons. Why is that so wrong?

In fact seriously, someone explain it to me: What do people have against other folk liking Robotech? Buying Robotech gear? I'm with Roger: has the existance of Robotech really made it that much harder to buy Macross stuff? Maybe u cant get it in B&M stores, but there are plenty of places across the web to do it!

Robotech was a mistmatch of shows, I get it. It has some elements that are pretty terrible, I get that too. but man, they got aloty of things right! Robotech is one of the first, and in the 80s very very few, cartoons shown everywhere to have a lead character quite clearly get shot and DIE! Roy dies, right there. On screen. Keels over and is gone. As a kid i remembered being pretty wide eyed at that.

i just...i never uunderstand it. Like the show or not, why the dislike of other people who do?

[Sumdumgai]

IIRC Toycom was the US Branch of Yamato, fifbeat.

They were going to release Macross Plus 1/72 scale toys. The VF-11B, YF-19, and YF-21 as shown in that poster.

Toycom got hit with a cease and desist letter from HG, because HG claimed they owned all things Macross. Toycom's President wanted to make stuff from Macross really bad. Toycom's President signed an agreement with HG that Toycom couldn't make anything Macross. Toycom's President jumped ship and started up Toynami and partnered with HG to make MPC Veritechs.

Toycom eventually shut down and re-opened as Yamato USA.

People that pre-ordered the Macross Plus toys got screwed by HG. So did the people that were waiting to pick up them up locally in the US once they had come out. So there are a number of people that are still very bitter and pissed about that whole cluster-f$%^.

This can all be researched in the HG License debate thread, I'm just going off of memory.

The way Hollywood is, I don't think we need to worry about seeing a VF-1 or Macross, since they'll be completely redesigned into something that doesn't even resemble the original.

[dreamweaver13]

What ive always found odd, is it is a crime at Macrossworld to be a fan of both shows. I like Macross for a lot of reasons, but i also like Robotech for a lot of reasons. Why is that so wrong?

In fact seriously, someone explain it to me: What do people have against other folk liking Robotech? Buying Robotech gear? I'm with Roger: has the existance of Robotech really made it that much harder to buy Macross stuff? Maybe u cant get it in B&M stores, but there are plenty of places across the web to do it!

Robotech was a mistmatch of shows, I get it. It has some elements that are pretty terrible, I get that too. but man, they got aloty of things right! Robotech is one of the first, and in the 80s very very few, cartoons shown everywhere to have a lead character quite clearly get shot and DIE! Roy dies, right there. On screen. Keels over and is gone. As a kid i remembered being pretty wide eyed at that.

i just...i never uunderstand it. Like the show or not, why the dislike of other people who do?

hmmm... haven't we gone a bit off topic here already? i mean, it's the old macross v. robotech debate all over again. and i'm sure that's been done so many times over and over to infinity already. so when you're already asking other people to explain why they hate robotech with a vengeance, it's just rekindling that old debate. and it no longer has anything to do with the production of the live-action robotech movie (which is, by the way, the topic of this thread).

by now, we know, there are macross fans who HATE robotech. there are those who like it or accept it. there are those who are indifferent. is there any point anymore in trying to convince people from one group to jump to the other? once they know the facts, let them decide for themselves. asking for why i hate robotech is just a form of picking a fight, IMHO. when there's actually no need. sure, i want to, but what's the point? you're not gonna change your mind, are you?

yes, this is a discussion on the live action robotech movie, so it's only natural for our biases for or against RT to come out. but that doesn't mean we have to explain all over again why we have such biases. let's just join this discussion, with the assumption that not all people agree on their opinion of the robotech series. the insults will come, and the corresponding defenses, but let's roll with the punches, and continue the discussion of the movie, if you still want to.

that being said...

ok, everyone seems to agree that the driving force of hollywood for making this movie will always be the money. so, if that is the common point, i don't see how it is possible that the producers would use any storyline other than the Macross storyline. i assume that most RT fans, even those who know nothing about macross, find the 1st saga to be the most memorable. in fact, first instinct of the "common" rt viewer is to equate RT with the SDF-1 and the story of hunter, hayes and minmay. so it wouldn't make financial sense to adopt any other storyline.

so if we agree on that point (that the macross saga of RT will be the one adapted into live action), therein lies the problem. how much can WB really adapt the story, names and mecha design without trampling on Nue/Big West? sure, the jap company isn't doing anything now to battle the control of HG. but if it is already a multi-million international endeavor we're talking about, then WB might find itself awakening a sleeping giant.

Edited June 19, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[ABetterTimeandPlace]

IIRC, the decision to tie all three shows together was a joint one made by Revell and Harmony Gold.

Revell provided the name and the Macross models, but it didn't decide to tie Southern Cross and Mospeada into it. Remember, Revell sold models from Macross, but not Southern Cross and Mospeada models.

Having a show to sell that was more than 65 episodes long ensured that it could be stripped in daily syndication. It worked for He-Man, Transformers, and G.I. Joe, and they were aiming to capture the same mind share.

After the decision was made, Macek was hired to rewrite everything (at breakneck pace, BTW) and get the shows ready for broadcast. You may not agree with the ideas that he used to accomplish this, but it was a pretty impressive feat, especially given the time and resource constraints that he had.

Is it an impressive feat? Not as much compared to the people who actually wrote and voiced the anime in the first place. And, by the way, animated it. At a breakneck pace. And, as you pointed out, there were many companies that were writing and dubbing daily animated series--and animating them too--before and after Robotech.

And hey, we might not even have Macrossworld if that didn't happen. ;p

People forget that non-Robotech Macross was being released in English before Robotech, while Robotech was in the air, and after Robotech. Robotech brought in many, many fans on its own, but's let not oversell it by saying something wouldn't exist without it.

Saying that Macrossworld wouldn't exist if Robotech didn't put Macross on television in the 1980s is like saying: too bad there are no English Gundam websites now, because Gundam wasn't put on American television in the 1980s.

Edited June 19, 2008 by ABetterTimeandPlace

[EXO]

Revell provided the name and the Macross models, but it didn't decide to tie Southern Cross and Mospeada into it. Remember, Revell sold models from Macross, but not Southern Cross and Mospeada models.

Is it an impressive feat? Not as much compared to the people who actually wrote and voiced the anime in the first place. And, by the way, animated it. At a breakneck pace. And, as you pointed out, there were many companies that were writing and dubbing daily animated series--and animating them too--before and after Robotech.

People forget that non-Robotech Macross was being released in English before Robotech, while Robotech was in the air, and after Robotech. Robotech brought in many, many fans on its own, but's let not oversell it by saying something wouldn't exist without it.

Saying that Macrossworld wouldn't exist if Robotech didn't put Macross on television in the 1980s is like saying: too bad there are no English Gundam websites now, because Gundam wasn't put on American television in the 1980s.

4 posts and already smarter than a lot of other people here.

Look, I'm a fan of Robotech when it aired. But everything that has followed it has been utter crap. Who do you blame for that? HG had no legs to stand on before and after they used footage that other people with talent created it from scratch. And sure Big West can't sell Macross Plus toys here, but that doesn't mean HG owns the right... because if so, you'd see toynami making their own crappy versions. Wow. It's funny how things look when you just want to see it the way you want to. Maybe it hasn't been that hard to buy Macross toys here in the US. But it sure does suck going thru the channels we have to just to get them, not to mention the wait.

[ABetterTimeandPlace]

Apparently they do have the rights since Macross Plus was a sequel to the original Macross, and their original agreement with Tatsunoko gave them the rights to derivative works outside of Japan.

If their original agreement with Tatsunoko gave them all those rights, why did they have to announce a new agreement for Do You Remember Love rights? And even if that new agreement covered all DYRL rights and not just some of them, why hasn't the movie itself been released?

Yamato must recognize it, too, otherwise they'd be selling Macross Plus toys through Yamato-USA or Sunwards, wouldn't they? Organic would be selling those Macross Plus Revoltechs here, too, but as far as I know, they don't.

The converse is true as well. Why hasn't Harmony Gold itself been releasing entirely new Japanese Macross products thus far? Even when it comes to the upcoming reissues of old 1/55 toys, why did it talk about this development as if it was a big breakthrough? The key seems to be Harmony Gold has some rights, but not all, and not enough to create entirely new Macross material.

I really don't understand the consternation over this. Has it actually been difficult for Macrossworld readers to obtain things like Yamato Macross toys and other Japanese products?

Yes. Try getting any Macross anime in English--legally--that was created after Harmony Gold started sending out letters.

Edited June 20, 2008 by ABetterTimeandPlace

[Roger]

I can't find a link to the original Japanese court ruling, but IIRC, the court ruled that "derivatives" extended only to SDF and DYRL. If the court ruled that derivatives extended to Macross Plus, then I'm surprised that Harmony Gold hasn't capitalized on the Plus franchise through the use of comics and other merchandise.

Yes, but didn't that court ruling come years after Harmony Gold was sending C&Ds? If so, you can't criticize HG for trying to enforce rights that they believed they already had.

I can't speak for Yamato, while they probably realize that they could challenge Harmony Gold, they'd rather avoid a potentially costly litigation process.

Or, instead of picking a fight, Yamato could actually try to negotiate a license with Harmony Gold. Have they ever tried to do so? Maybe Graham could tell us.

It's really easy to place all of the blame on one party, isn't it? ;p

[EXO]

Yes, but didn't that court ruling come years after Harmony Gold was sending C&Ds? If so, you can't criticize HG for trying to enforce rights that they believed they already had.

I'd say criticizing is probably very warranted if they only "believed" they had it. If a cop shot first and ask questions later... what would be the general reaction?

ummm... criticizing... ;p

[Roger]

I'd say criticizing is probably very warranted if they only "believed" they had it. If a cop shot first and ask questions later... what would be the general reaction?

ummm... criticizing... ;p

Lousy analogy, unless you want to say that there are always people out there who will never give a cop the benefit of the doubt. ;p

[EXO]

Lousy analogy, unless you want to say that there are always people out there who will never give a cop the benefit of the doubt. ;p

I'd say it's right on... critism is a natural reaction, not a court ruling. But I guess saying it's a lousy analogy is a great retort!

[Roger]

...critism is a natural reaction...

You misspelled "criticism."

;p

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Hey, you two. Have you seen the hour? Go get some supper and go to bed already

[Gubaba]

What ive always found odd, is it is a crime at Macrossworld to be a fan of both shows. I like Macross for a lot of reasons, but i also like Robotech for a lot of reasons. Why is that so wrong?

In fact seriously, someone explain it to me: What do people have against other folk liking Robotech? Buying Robotech gear? I'm with Roger: has the existance of Robotech really made it that much harder to buy Macross stuff? Maybe u cant get it in B&M stores, but there are plenty of places across the web to do it!

Robotech was a mistmatch of shows, I get it. It has some elements that are pretty terrible, I get that too. but man, they got aloty of things right! Robotech is one of the first, and in the 80s very very few, cartoons shown everywhere to have a lead character quite clearly get shot and DIE! Roy dies, right there. On screen. Keels over and is gone. As a kid i remembered being pretty wide eyed at that.

i just...i never uunderstand it. Like the show or not, why the dislike of other people who do?

I don't think it's a crime to like both shows, but I do dislike a lot of Robotech fans...the strident ones who defend Harmony Gold, and say that Shadow Chronicles is better than Frontier any chance they can get. (yeah, I know...a lot of us do just the reverse).

Robotech was a solid effort, but even as a kid back in '85, having already seen HG Macross (The "Rick Yamada" and "Lisa Hayase" version), I knew that they had changed some things, and I wanted to see the original. I even thought of writing a letter to Harmony Gold (again, in 1985) asking if they could send me videotapes of the original Japanese versions with subtitles. They thought that they wouldn't just do it for me, free of charge, never really crossed my young mind...

And even then, once I learned more about Macross from import books and models, it bugged me to try to talk about it with people and get, "But what about the Invid?" or "I wonder what the SDF-3 looks like?" But then Macross II and later, Macross Plus started coming out, along with the Robotech Perfect Collection, and all seemed fine.

I dislike Streamline for discontinuing the Perfect Collections (and, more personally, for lying to me about it at Anime Expo '96).

Then I disliked Harmony Gold for the cutthroat tactics that made it far from easy to get Hasegawa kits (although those seemed to be a little below HG's radar). Of course, Harmony Gold in 2002 has almost nothing to do with the Harmony Gold of 1985...completely different staff, compeltely different outlook.

Now I dislike Harmony Gold for keeping any new Macross from coming here. And I dislike Robotech fans who gloat about that or lay the blame at Big West's feet.

And if or when the live-action movie comes out, it'll be even worse, because there will be even MORE money at stake.

And I won't forgive them until I hold in my hands a nice, R1 Macross Zero DVD Box Set.

[Roger]

Now I dislike Harmony Gold for keeping any new Macross from coming here. And I dislike Robotech fans who gloat about that or lay the blame at Big West's feet.

Isn't it a little disingenuous to say something like this, though? Do you know if Big West has made any efforts to bring Macross Frontier to the American market, and if Harmony Gold has actively stopped them?

If there was money to be made for both parties, you could bet that they would come to an agreement.

Of course, with fansubbed torrents of the anime, scans of the manga, etc. being readily available (on sites like Macrossworld ;p), the declining state of the anime/manga industry in the US, and the niche appeal of the show, do you think it would be worth the effort?

[TheLoneWolf]

Or, instead of picking a fight, Yamato could actually try to negotiate a license with Harmony Gold. Have they ever tried to do so? Maybe Graham could tell us.

Graham has already addressed the issue.

From what I understand, George Sohn and the head of Yamato don't exactly see eye to eye, so any deal between the two companies is extemely unlikely.

It's really easy to place all of the blame on one party, isn't it?

[Gubaba]

Isn't it a little disingenuous to say something like this, though? Do you know if Big West has made any efforts to bring Macross Frontier to the American market, and if Harmony Gold has actively stopped them?

If there was money to be made for both parties, you could bet that they would come to an agreement.

Of course, with fansubbed torrents of the anime, scans of the manga, etc. being readily available (on sites like Macrossworld ;p), the declining state of the anime/manga industry in the US, and the niche appeal of the show, do you think it would be worth the effort?

I've heard that argument before, and I don't buy it.

Big West worked in good faith with US Renditions and Manga Ent. A few years later, Harmony Gold says that they own the outside-Japan rights for those shows. They scotch the U.S. Plus toys, and send some C&D letters. Big West loses a lot of face. Later, HG copyrights the Macross name so that anyone who wants to release macross here HAS to work with them.

And Big West would want to do so why, exactly...? Because they have no other choice? Screw HG.

[Roger]

Graham has already addressed the issue.

Actually, he doesn't address the issue. Graham was talking about Iseki-san and George Sohn. George Sohn doesn't run Harmony Gold, he runs Toynami.

[Roger]

And Big West would want to do so why, exactly...? Because they have no other choice? Screw HG.

Okay, Harmony Gold does things that you think are unreasonable, and because they do those things, it's okay for Big West to do something unreasonable like refusing to sit down with them and cut a deal that could bring shows like Macross Frontier to America.

So you still get to claim that you're being denied something and continue blaming the party you dislike.

Pretty airtight.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Um... is this the Robotech movie thread or the Harmony Gold / Bigwest legal battle thread?

Can't this site ever have anything Robotech without the whole legal wrangle being thrown in?

As for the topic at hand I reiterate what I said pages ago: this is only the beginning. "Writers attached" and "in development" don't equal a movie. Look how long and how many different iterations certain projects like Watchmen have been through. Call me the constant skeptic but I'll believe it when the movie rags I read list it as "in principal photography".

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What ive always found odd, is it is a crime at Macrossworld to be a fan of both shows.

I believe fans of both shows did get allot of bashing in the past, not just here but even at anime con type of events. Mostly for all the reasons everybody has brought up. Even before MW or RT.COM was launched Robotech bashing was almost an annual event at anime cons, but this was back in the early 90's and since then it has become less of an issue.

Now that it's easier to get merchandise and see new episodes of Macross F in a matter of minuets, I think most Macross fans are content with the way things are going. Actually things could only get better for the Macross franchise. I've noticed less hostilely coming from MW members that goes towards RT fans.

From the RT side there isn't and increase or decrease of hostility, it is just the same as before. Most new RT fans don't care about the past, only the older fans are still holding on to it. Granted I would have to say Macross fans usually were the ones starting the fights in the past now they have pretty much stopped since they can get what ever they want whether HG likes it or not. So there is nothing to fight about any more.

I listen to Space Station Liberty usually good or bad it's informative. Negative Macross World remarks are pretty common there, and usually unrelated to the topic. Robotech fans should worry more about other Robotech fans because most of them fight among themselves and that is increasing allot in the past two years. I'm guess RT fans are just in a way upset that Macross fans are taken care of in the of forms of anime movies, ova, or series, whether they are good, bad, so so, or just awful we get them pretty much every 5 years, and that is something RT fans don't get. So they will just say right off the bat without seeing a single minuet of Frontier that it's crap or it just Mac 7 all over again.

I'm a fan of old school RT and would never put it down it grew up on it, I've had issues with what has been done since it's attempt as a revival. It not what I really want but I'll support it in my own way. Take it from me I got my knock coming to MW for having the user name SaveRobotech but I'm pretty well taken care of here, and meet alot of users in person.

Some have asked why I changed my name. No MW did not ask me to I requested the change on my own. I was done beating a dead horse of pointless fan accusations toward HG. Also I've meet lots of people here in Japan that know the whole Big West legal deal and I figured it would be better to just post as Save.

Oh to at least address the actual topic at hand. News of the Robotech screen writer reached a few Japanese news web sites, and some people took it as there would be a live action Macross movie made. They just didn't really understand what the article was saying since it also mentioned Southern Cross and Mospeada but most were like I barley remember Macross. So anyways I had to set them straight. I did find it funny that article tries to indicate the an OVA was made Shadow Chronicles and that sales were brisk.

Edited June 20, 2008 by Save