regult Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 I must admit, if it wasn't for "raw-bow-tek" I'd have never known there was "makurosu"...but upon stumbling on this discussion, I thought HG was "Universal Century" as in Gunpla! (sorry Harmony Gold) At this point I should probably watch Mospeada and Southern Cross as they were originally conceived.
Knight26 Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 Many of us in the USA discovered macross through row-boat-tech, but as we got older we discovered the truth and moved on. We are not fanatics, the row-boat-tech fans are the fanatics as they cling to the idea that their version is the correct and better version, which it is not. If the RT heads would simpyl let go of RT and accept the original three as produced many headaches would go away, and perhaps even HG would either cease to be, or would concede defeat to BW to allow the real Macross into the USA. THen, and only then could we ever get a HW produced live action Macross that would hoepfully not be a steaming pile. As it is, this will be a steaming pile, now excuse me while I go watch robo-jocks, probably the only decent live action giant robot film ever made.
lord_breetai Posted October 23, 2008 Posted October 23, 2008 Many of us in the USA discovered macross through row-boat-tech, but as we got older we discovered the truth and moved on. We are not fanatics, the row-boat-tech fans are the fanatics as they cling to the idea that their version is the correct and better version, which it is not. If the RT heads would simpyl let go of RT and accept the original three as produced many headaches would go away, and perhaps even HG would either cease to be, or would concede defeat to BW to allow the real Macross into the USA. THen, and only then could we ever get a HW produced live action Macross that would hoepfully not be a steaming pile. As it is, this will be a steaming pile, now excuse me while I go watch robo-jocks, probably the only decent live action giant robot film ever made. Oh please... this is just pure sillyness... "We're right and they're wrong" first of all I think many of you are underestimating both the size and the intellegence of the Robotech fandom... many of these people have watched Macross and prefer Robotech for one reason or another (be it the back story created by blending the three series, the bgm (yes there are people who prefer the bgm) or another reason)... Robotech has a lot of expanded material and not all of it is repitions of the same theme, there was a lot of experimental work with the Robotech comics from the late 80s to mid 90s... so don't tell me there's been no inovation in storytelling. Now I'm not someone who values Robotech more then Macross... I havn't watched Robotech since Space first started airing it on TV again last year and that was mostly for the experience and to get my girlfriend to watch a bit of it (we had watched the first bit of Macross but she thought it was pretty slow). So I'm not a fanatic... but it bugs me when a Macross fanatic says it's going to suck automatically before anything has materialized. I'm much more a Macross fan then a Robotech fan... I enjoy certain things about Robotech, I respect a great deal of the original thought and work that went into it over the last 20 years... but Macross in it's original form is better then Robotech: The Macross Saga... yes I agree with that but I don't redicule people who disagree. I also don't assume a new work is going to suck just because it has the Robotech name attatched to it either. You come across as a fanatic here... "this will blow because HG won't concede defeat to BW and get their support on a Macros movie.... MACROSS FTW!" is basically what you're saying. It's not Tommy Yune writing and directing this movie... they've got great screen writers announced, lets wait and see about the script and director, hmm?
arrow Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 they will probably re-write the storyline for the movie anyway. so a chance to see the vf-1s in in CGI should be cool.
taksraven Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Whatever you may think of Macross, each show is distinct from previous incarnation. vinnie Thats why I love Macross. There certainly glances back and nods to the past, but each show is still fresh and new. Taksraven
Morpheus Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 they will probably re-write the storyline for the movie anyway. so a chance to see the vf-1s in in CGI should be cool. I don't think we will see VF-1 or any of the original destroid in this movie because of certain issue. But maybe we will got a transformer like Starscream with a submersible Nimitz-based carrier. I still think this movie will stuck and forgotten in development hell.
taksraven Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 they will probably re-write the storyline for the movie anyway. so a chance to see the vf-1s in in CGI should be cool. I think that there are rights issues on using Macross designs in this film. Anybody have any idea on this one or is nothing clear cut yet?? Taksraven
taksraven Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Avatar has already been filmed. It's the reason why Shymalan's live action version of the Avatar cartoon is going to be called The Last Airbender. I know its been filmed NOW, but it took ages to get it done, thats my point. Taksraven
taksraven Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 I think its fair to say that the Robotech Live Action movie is at a stage in Hollywood known as DEVELOPMENT HELL. First you disagree with me, now you echo me???? Make your mind up!! :rolleyes: Taksraven
yellowlightman Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Many of us in the USA discovered macross through row-boat-tech, but as we got older we discovered the truth and moved on. We are not fanatics, the row-boat-tech fans are the fanatics as they cling to the idea that their version is the correct and better version, which it is not. That's ridiculous dude. Just because people still like Robotech doesn't mean they don't know of it's origins, nor does it mean they think Robotech is the "correct" version. I've known plenty of Robotech fans who were big fans of Robotech and Macross, and knew all about their respective origins. But hey, how about those Macross fans who still act so butthurt over a dumb cartoon and some crappy toys they couldn't buy from way back when?
Keith Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 But hey, how about those Macross fans who still act so butthurt over a dumb cartoon and some crappy toys they couldn't buy from way back when? I don't know any of those guys, I just know the Macross fans who still can't get any of the recent shows in official R1 release because of equal parts stupidity & green on the side of HG.
jenius Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 HG & BW right? It takes two to tango. BW doesn't want to give HG money and HG isn't inclined to sit quietly unless paid.
Keith Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 HG & BW right? It takes two to tango. BW doesn't want to give HG money and HG isn't inclined to sit quietly unless paid. For more go to the licensing topic, but the short of it is this. BW owns Macross, why should they give HG money? HG doesn't own Macross, they just own the distribution rights to the first series outside of Japan, how does that entitle them to anything more?
yellowlightman Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 I don't know any of those guys, I just know the Macross fans who still can't get any of the recent shows in official R1 release because of equal parts stupidity & green on the side of HG. Coming from the guy who used to troll Robotech message boards... truly an unbiased opinion.
VF5SS Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Robotech has a lot of expanded material and not all of it is repitions of the same theme, there was a lot of experimental work with the Robotech comics from the late 80s to mid 90s... so don't tell me there's been no inovation in storytelling. An RPG for a system no one likes and a bunch of American comic book writers dick around with the story doesn't seem terribly innovative to me. A lot of that stuff seemed to suggest that anyone could get the Robotech license. Besides, the comics don't even count. They're for a niche market anyways.
Duke Togo Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 That's ridiculous dude. Just because people still like Robotech doesn't mean they don't know of it's origins, nor does it mean they think Robotech is the "correct" version. But plenty of them don't know. We've seen them here, we've seen them elsewhere.
jenius Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 For more go to the licensing topic, but the short of it is this. BW owns Macross, why should they give HG money? HG doesn't own Macross, they just own the distribution rights to the first series outside of Japan, how does that entitle them to anything more? Right, so I'm right, both BW and HG. Entitlement would be a subject for the licensing topic where we could enjoy the circle jerk of "But BW won a lawsuit!" "But HG has a Macross copyright!" "But BW owns the IP rights!" "But if BW is so secure why don't they just move forward without HG?" Legal matters are no fun, for now it's best summed up as both BW and HG got in a pissing match and everyone else got hosed.
Einherjar Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 An RPG for a system no one likes and a bunch of American comic book writers dick around with the story doesn't seem terribly innovative to me. A lot of that stuff seemed to suggest that anyone could get the Robotech license. Besides, the comics don't even count. They're for a niche market anyways. Agreed, years ago I bought some Robotech: From the Stars comics from Wildstrom and only read them recently. Besides expanding a scene from the series it vaguely felt like it cheap imitation of Macross Zero. Even with Roy Focker as the lead, it's so cliche and repetitive that I'd prefer the Mayan Island adventure. Being released near the same time, I hope Wildstorm didn't influence how Zero turned out (delays & unlicensed status).
Keith Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Coming from the guy who used to troll Robotech message boards... truly an unbiased opinion. You're damned right it is.
lord_breetai Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 An RPG for a system no one likes and a bunch of American comic book writers dick around with the story doesn't seem terribly innovative to me. A lot of that stuff seemed to suggest that anyone could get the Robotech license. Besides, the comics don't even count. They're for a niche market anyways. oh most of the comics were bad I'll give you that... there where a few though that really tried to do different things within the Robotech Universe. And I've found that the guys at Palladium always come up with really rich contents to their worlds... no one likes Rifts and Palladium? I'm not so sure about that.... the company manged to surrive a major embezelment scandle that promised to put it under, it's obviously go it's supporters. The system isn't the greatest but the Rifts story and characters are pretty cool at least. (at least I think so, and I know many haters of the system who agree). But that digresses from the point. By the time the license was published by Academy HG's seemed to stop paying attention for sure (even then you have to wonder with Eternity and the "adult" issues of the Sentinels). And all american comics can be considered a Niche market... so can direct to DVD movies like the Shadow Chronicles... that dosn't mean they don't count. Just cause they're not considerered "canon" outside of Tommy Yune's Wildstorm comics (of which only Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles had any merit) dosn't mean they don't count. Yes a lot of them are a tangled mess... a lot of them have suffer a not-so subtle attempt to make them more Macrossy then Robotechy... and many of them are simply vapid works with no merit. But a few really tried to do different things with the characters that are better then the offerings by Tommy Yune (I don't hate Tommy's works either.... but some of what came before was better IMO) anyway my main point was that this movie should not be judged on any of what has come before or on Harmony Gold's buisness practices, let's see what the people who get attatched to it come up with.
Radd Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Right, so I'm right, both BW and HG. Entitlement would be a subject for the licensing topic where we could enjoy the circle jerk of "But BW won a lawsuit!" "But HG has a Macross copyright!" "But BW owns the IP rights!" "But if BW is so secure why don't they just move forward without HG?" Legal matters are no fun, for now it's best summed up as both BW and HG got in a pissing match and everyone else got hosed. It makes for a rather silly argument. It's like seeing a laundromat get plugged full of holes for refusing to pay "protection money" and saying, "Well, it's just as much their fault as the mobsters' Takes two to tango, and all that!"
VF5SS Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Agreed, years ago I bought some Robotech: From the Stars comics from Wildstrom and only read them recently. Besides expanding a scene from the series it vaguely felt like it cheap imitation of Macross Zero. Even with Roy Focker as the lead, it's so cliche and repetitive that I'd prefer the Mayan Island adventure. Being released near the same time, I hope Wildstorm didn't influence how Zero turned out (delays & unlicensed status). Yeah I remember that one. With more "Dr. Lang" pointlessness and the chunkiest VF-1 ever drawn. A lot of Robotech comics didn't seem to be doing different things, just trying to shoehorn 90's grimdark sci-fi in an anime setting.
jenius Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 It makes for a rather silly argument. It's like seeing a laundromat get plugged full of holes for refusing to pay "protection money" and saying, "Well, it's just as much their fault as the mobsters' Takes two to tango, and all that!" Now THAT makes for a silly argument. This is a legal debacle with two companies refusing to make any concessions, there are no defenseless moms and pops or big scary mobsters involved. Both companies are being greedy and thinking of only their best interests, it's capitalism, the results of which have been unfortunate but them's the breaks. I don't see it happening but maybe WB will throw a big wad of cash at BW to help solve this issue.
Einherjar Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Yeah I remember that one. With more "Dr. Lang" pointlessness and the chunkiest VF-1 ever drawn. A lot of Robotech comics didn't seem to be doing different things, just trying to shoehorn 90's grimdark sci-fi in an anime setting. The sad thing is I want to sell them off, but even people on ebay don't want them, before and after the economy went sour. Where the hell are the fanatics?
Ginrai Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 (edited) Agreed, years ago I bought some Robotech: From the Stars comics from Wildstrom and only read them recently. Besides expanding a scene from the series it vaguely felt like it cheap imitation of Macross Zero. Even with Roy Focker as the lead, it's so cliche and repetitive that I'd prefer the Mayan Island adventure. Being released near the same time, I hope Wildstorm didn't influence how Zero turned out (delays & unlicensed status). Since From The Stars came out BEFORE Macross Zero it can't be a cheap imitation. But come now, let's not pretend Macross Zero is some great artistic achievement. Edited October 24, 2008 by Ginrai
Einherjar Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 (edited) Since From The Stars came out BEFORE Macross Zero it can't be a cheap imitation. But come now, let's not pretend Macross Zero is some great artistic achievement. Really? I thought they started near the same time in 2002/2003. Edited October 24, 2008 by Einherjar
Keith Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 Now THAT makes for a silly argument. This is a legal debacle with two companies refusing to make any concessions, there are no defenseless moms and pops or big scary mobsters involved. Both companies are being greedy and thinking of only their best interests, it's capitalism, the results of which have been unfortunate but them's the breaks. I don't see it happening but maybe WB will throw a big wad of cash at BW to help solve this issue. And again, you've yet to point out exactly "why" Big West should make any concessions with HG. Big West is 100% in the right, while HG is compounding Tatsunoko's wrong.
VFTF1 Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 Now THAT makes for a silly argument. This is a legal debacle with two companies refusing to make any concessions, there are no defenseless moms and pops or big scary mobsters involved. Both companies are being greedy and thinking of only their best interests, it's capitalism, Actually, it's not capitalism. It's arbitrary international litigator with dubious real authority telling the world that HG has rights which it doesn't. Capitalism would be a situation in which property rights are respected. Macross is not the property of Harmony Gold. And again, you've yet to point out exactly "why" Big West should make any concessions with HG. Big West is 100% in the right, while HG is compounding Tatsunoko's wrong. Agreed. Making a concession to Harmony Gold is like making a concession to your friend who borrowed your KISS CDs and decided "hey, these really sound great - I think I'll keep 'em" - and after years of saying "give me back my KISS CDs dude" you suddenly say "ok, well...can I at least have one please?" Pete
jenius Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 LOL, no really, you guys are right, BW is Christ on the cross! My bad.
Duke Togo Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 LOL, no really, you guys are right, BW is Christ on the cross! My bad. ROBOTECH! TO THE RESCUE!
VFTF1 Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 LOL, no really, you guys are right, BW is Christ on the cross! My bad. Never argue with two Basara Avatars in a row Pete
Chewie Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 arbitrary international litigator with dubious real authority (Not to make light of your guys' serious discussion but man..) Try saying that ten times fast!
Roger Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 Making a concession to Harmony Gold is like making a concession to your friend who borrowed your KISS CDs and decided "hey, these really sound great - I think I'll keep 'em" - and after years of saying "give me back my KISS CDs dude" you suddenly say "ok, well...can I at least have one please?" No. It's not.
Gubaba Posted October 26, 2008 Posted October 26, 2008 No. It's not. You know, I agree with you. It's not like that. From my understanding of the situation (which is spotty at best...as is everybody's, considering that so much of this hasn't been made public) is that Harmony Gold has asserted rights to SDFM and all its sequels, whether or not Tatsunoko had any hand in them, but they won't show the contract to anyone. Which means that Big West was outside its rights to work with U.S. Renditions (for MacII) and Manga Entertainment (for Plus...and later MacII). In other words, they are claiming that Big West worked with other companies in bad faith and in violation of their contract. So it's like giving your Kiss CDs to one friend, and later giving your Black Sabbath CDs to another. Then the first friend pipes up and says, "You agreed to give me your Sabbath collection, too. So you're a liar." You're puzzled, Friend #2 is puzzled, and so you ask Friend #1 for the proof. he says that he has it, but he won't show you. Friend #2 begins to think this may be more trouble than it's worth, and word gets around. At that point, Friend #1 says, "See? Now if you want to get rid of your CDs, you HAVE to give them to me."
EXO Posted October 26, 2008 Posted October 26, 2008 Again... not a licensing debate thread... we've heard all this already!!!
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