Battle Angel Alita

[Thom]

Yeah, as I understand it, everything about her is artificial except for her brain, which in the manga was modified(?) but not replaced. I would like to infer that for the movie as well, except for Ido stating about her 'very human brain,' which would imply that it was not. But who knows? He may have been simply implying that her brain still at least organic even if nothing else was.

As for how long she was in there... (shrug) Depending on how long her brain could last without sustenance, and being modified it could have lasted for a long, long time, she may have been in the scrap pile for three hundred years. Yes, she was found near the top but we can see the cranes that fish through and redistribute the pile around, and assume that she was stirred up from the bottom.

 

 

[M'Kyuun]

2 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

From the manga:

  Hide contents

There's two different backstories, one from the original series in the very ending, and one from the continuation series (Last Order) that ret-conned the whole ending, including the backstory bit.

In the original she was part of an attack fleet attacking Ketheres, the space-city on the other end of the orbital elevator that Zalem (called Tiphares in the manga) hangs from. She was thrown into a nanotech space-suit bubble thing right as the ship was blown up (losing her body below the chest from shrapnel) and the nanotech let her survive re-entry and put her into stasis. (300years prior)

In Last Order she was a saboteur that uploaded a virus into the AI that ran Ketheres, and was sentenced to execution via atmospheric immolation, which she survived and was found by Ido. (also 300 years prior). The continuation also stated that her brain has a shock-hardening polymer rather than water in it, with no explanation as to why.

In both backstories she was an agent of Mars. Original series as a soldier, the continuation/ret-con as an operative of the Panzer Kunst school (think of them like a ninja village kinda?)

In both manga series, there is no artificial brain that looks like a brain. The artificial brains are "bio-chips", flat hexagons of black plastic that take up far less space and are obviously artificial.

 

Spoiler

Little confusing as to what really happened to her for her to end up in the scrapyard. Alas, the way she's portrayed in the manga makes her more of an android than a cyborg, as it sounds like she's a completely artificial person. Unless there's a 'ghost' element at play which would tie her to a once organic being. 

Either way, I'd consider the manga as canon, and the live action , and even the anime, took liberties with what's in her head. I suppose it makes her more relatable if she has at least some small part in common with people (certainly not her heart). I like the purity of her character, her ultimate sense of justice; seeing the evolution of her condition from basically wreckage to nearly unstoppable warrior, knowing how old she actually is, and knowing that she was part of a Martian elite group of commandos sworn to justice begs all sorts of questions concerning where she's been and where she's going. Sounds like there's plenty of sequel material left for more big-screen Alita. Bring it on, I say.

 

[Sanity is Optional]

In the manga she is 100% human brain, in a cyborg body.

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

Considering how much was crammed into two hours of film, this movie rocked.  Action sequences were superb and major plot points from the source material were delivered in a not-TOO-convoluted pace. I took my mom to see this, and even she had a good time without knowing a lick of the manga.  Glad I caught it on the big screen, and I wouldn't mind seeing it again. Maybe mama bear can make it this time!

[Keith]

Yup, I also enjoyed it.

[TehPW]

17 hours ago, Thom said:

Yeah, as I understand it, everything about her is artificial except for her brain, which in the manga was modified(?) but not replaced. I would like to infer that for the movie as well, except for Ido stating about her 'very human brain,' which would imply that it was not. But who knows? He may have been simply implying that her brain still at least organic even if nothing else was.

As for how long she was in there... (shrug) Depending on how long her brain could last without sustenance, and being modified it could have lasted for a long, long time, she may have been in the scrap pile for three hundred years. Yes, she was found near the top but we can see the cranes that fish through and redistribute the pile around, and assume that she was stirred up from the bottom.

 

 

Spoiler

there might be an issue here: When Cheron's 'remains' were shown in the box (LOL, what's in the box?), it's been a week but it was her brain behind her eyes. Now in LO, adult Zephranians are volentold to give up their brain for a Salem-brand CPU chip... which was to imply that the folks from up top once they get the triangle on their forehead implies they are now part of the network, chip wise. She had the triangle but she still had a brain... is that still gonna be a thing in the movies or is that gonna be something new that's introduced? perhaps a method to make Ed Nova (I coin this!) more dastardly (bruhahahahahahaha, I will win by removing everyone's brain for a CPU made by Mattel!) because most people wont get that Nova does crap for the LOLz and not pure evil deeds, per se.

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by TehPW
I cans Thinks! eeeerrrrhhh

[slaginpit]

I really enjoyed the movie. Rewatched the original they captured a lot from the anime and yet they mixed some parts from the mega manga.

 

Did a review video funny fox nailed me for copy right. Even tho a showed a tiny bit of the trailer and made the review transformative. With so little positive reviews on the film I have been thinking maybe I should delete the video review and post a negative one. How do you like dem apples FOX!

[Hikuro]

7 minutes ago, slaginpit said:

I really enjoyed the movie. Rewatched the original they captured a lot from the anime and yet they mixed some parts from the mega manga.

 

Did a review video funny fox nailed me for copy right. Even tho a showed a tiny bit of the trailer and made the review transformative. With so little positive reviews on the film I have been thinking maybe I should delete the video review and post a negative one. How do you like dem apples FOX!

Argue over the fair use clause if you haven’t already. 

[Thom]

6 hours ago, TehPW said:

  Hide contents

there might be an issue here: When Cheron's 'remains' were shown in the box (LOL, what's in the box?), it's been a week but it was her brain behind her eyes. Now in LO, adult Zephranians are volentold to give up their brain for a Salem-brand CPU chip... which was to imply that the folks from up top once they get the triangle on their forehead implies they are now part of the network, chip wise. She had the triangle but she still had a brain... is that still gonna be a thing in the movies or is that gonna be something new that's introduced? perhaps a method to make Ed Nova (I coin this!) more dastardly (bruhahahahahahaha, I will win by removing everyone's brain for a CPU made by Mattel!) because most people wont get that Nova does crap for the LOLz and not pure evil deeds, per se.

 

I don't think they're going that route.

Spoiler

I think it is just a mark of a citizen of Zalam rather than anythin technical. Or if it is, it might be reasoned that it could be an augmentation to the organic brain, which would mean seeing Cheron's in the box would fit. But then Ido explains that he removed his, so I think that just makes it a status symbol in this iteration of Battle Angel.

 

[TehPW]

2 hours ago, Thom said:

I don't think they're going that route.

  Hide contents

I think it is just a mark of a citizen of Zalam rather than anythin technical. Or if it is, it might be reasoned that it could be an augmentation to the organic brain, which would mean seeing Cheron's in the box would fit. But then Ido explains that he removed his, so I think that just makes it a status symbol in this iteration of Battle Angel.

 

I agree. I think augmentation is the angle 

Spoiler

because Ed Nova's (i demand that we all call him this :D) Teletubbie method involved a chip attached to the victim's brains.

 

[kajnrig]

...damn. They REALLY pushed that PG-13 to the absolute limits, didn't they?

The 3D isn't worth it. Lucky for me, I had some rewards points to spend that basically covered the extra fee for it.

I can see why people thought the pacing was too fast. Events do happen fast, but the bigger issue is that they don't flow nicely and build up to something big. It's one small arc that starts and ends, followed by another, followed by another. Almost like it's based on a serial manga. It definitely could have been adapted better, but as is I don't think it's necessarily bad, either.

I was pleasantly surprised that, as I watched this, I remembered more and more of the original anime I last saw as a child.

I like where the movie ends. Some might say it ends on a cliffhanger and sequel hook, but I'm fine with it as is. If Cameron decides to fund a sequel, great. If not, also great.

But seriously, damn they didn't let that rating pull their punches. That they were able to so faithfully recreate specific moments that they triggered memories inside me of those same moments from the anime, and to do it while maintaining a PG-13, is nothing short of miraculous.

[Duymon]

Film was enjoyable but yeah it felt kinda rushed. It's almost like it was supposed to be 2-3 movies and then got crammed into one lol.

My Wife has refused to go watch a movie with me ever since I took her to the Last Jedi (she said she couldn't trust my taste in movies)... but I convinced her to see Alita because Edward Norton is one of her Celeb crushes. 

Surprisingly she enjoyed the flick too

Edited February 21, 2019 by Duymon

[kajnrig]

If anyone is still wanting the manga: https://comicbook.com/anime/amp/2019/02/21/battle-angel-alita-manga-box-set-sale/

[Sildani]

Excellent, does that contain Last Order too?

[Sanity is Optional]

That's just the original series.

For Last Order you want to find the omnibus editions, I think there's 6 or 7 omnibus volumes (19 normal volumes)

[wwwmwww]

17 hours ago, kajnrig said:

If anyone is still wanting the manga: https://comicbook.com/anime/amp/2019/02/21/battle-angel-alita-manga-box-set-sale/

I ordered this off Amazon a couple days ago.  It is back-ordered so I'm a little curious how long I'll have to wait but I'm in no rush.

17 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

That's just the original series.

For Last Order you want to find the omnibus editions, I think there's 6 or 7 omnibus volumes (19 normal volumes)

Based on what Sanity is Optional posted (below) I think the Omnibus Editions only contain the first 15 volumes.  I don't have them myself so I cannot confirm but based on the little digging I've done I think he is correct.

Carl

On 2/17/2019 at 9:00 PM, Sanity is Optional said:

1. Looks like it, but I can't confirm as I only have the original English release.
2. No clue
3. It's vol 1-15 of Last Order, missing vol 16-19. I have 4&5 of the ominbus, and they're each 3 volumes equivalent.

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by wwwmwww

[Sanity is Optional]

8 minutes ago, wwwmwww said:

Based on what Sanity is Optional posted (below) I think the Omnibus Editions only contain the first 15 volumes.  I don't have them myself so I cannot confirm but based on the little digging I've done I think he is correct.

I can tell you that volume 16 comes after the end of Omnibus 5, I have both on my shelf. Wasn't aware the omnibus editions stopped at 5.

[kajnrig]

Agree with a lot of this, surprised.

[Thom]

I keep wondering how it is that anyone can see this as a 'mess.' I followed it quite easily and I'm not the sharpened pencil in the bin.

I agree on all his likes for the movie though. (Even as I must agree that it did deserve to have solid ending...)

Although, as a critique of the critique-r - he talks way too fast! It seemed like he was rushing to keep his review to under 8 minutes.

[Mazinger]

34 minutes ago, Thom said:

I keep wondering how it is that anyone can see this as a 'mess.' I followed it quite easily and I'm not the sharpened pencil in the bin.

I agree on all his likes for the movie though. (Even as I must agree that it did deserve to have solid ending...)

Although, as a critique of the critique-r - he talks way too fast! It seemed like he was rushing to keep his review to under 8 minutes.

Yeah, it wasn't hard to follow, though I can agree that perhaps it was a bit over stuffed.  I think that same amount of ground could have easily been covered in 2 or 3 movies, sort of the opposite problem of The Hobbit trilogy.

[Thom]

There was a lot in there, though not the jumble that many critics complain about.  It could have been paired down, and if I had my druthers, it would have been the removal of Nova from Alita's awareness entirely. Or at least until the end, maybe being given a clue that Vector was not the biggest bad on the block. Then the end scene with her rolling out to roaring crowds and raising her sword towards Zalam (and Nova) could have been moved to a sequel setting. A different ending after Hugo fell could have then been her and Ido heading out together for the first time to hunt criminals.

'Stepping outside, Ido put his arm around her shoulders, giving her a quick hug. One hand lifted to ruffle her hair before he gave her a little push. He was not at all happy about doing this. No, Alita was not his daughter of the flesh, but she was of his heart, and no father would wish such a dangerous life as he himself had chosen to be taken up by his children. But just as much as Alita was not his daughter in truth, was how much he could not stop her. Literally. She had her own mind and her own heart, one that was hurting no matter how artificial it may be. Just as his had, after his own Alita had died. Ido had been alone then, in many ways hoping that he would lose and end his pain. But now he was not. Somehow, he had found what he had not known he had even been looking for. And now, he would not let her be alone in this moment that so mirrored his own.

Come what may, they would stand together...

With a small, still sad smile at her 'father' Alita headed out into the dark street, looking back fondly as Ido followed with his case. Her eyes then lifted up to the dark night, lingering on the full moon and the memories of a past life. Those memories were who she was. This was who she was, a warrior standing against evil. Zalam, as it hung in the sky above their heads, was a false promise of salvation that had taken its last victim if she had her say. No, she would have her say. Soon. Soon Zalam would know that it was not all-powerful in Iron City anymore. Soon, the mysterious Nova would know that Alita would not let him do to any other as he had done Chiren. As he had done to her Hugo.

Her hand tightened around the hilt of the Damascus blade, a spark of blue fire curling around her fingers.

Soon, they would know that Alita was coming...'

Start banging soundtrack, roll credits.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Thom

[sh9000]

 

[slide]

Haven't seen the movie or the anime, but I'm diggin' the song.

Edited February 23, 2019 by slide

[Thom]

35 minutes ago, slide said:

Haven't seen the movie or the anime, but I'm diggin' the song.

I hope you dig the movie too when you see it. I haven't read the manga yet or seen the two part OAV, but this is said to take parts from both while adding a bit of Cameron's own. I found it to be very enjoyable with a lot of heart. It would be a shame if this didn't get a sequel.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Thom

[TangledThorns]

Saw it today, really good action and SFX. I hope there is a sequel. Cameos were cool too.

Robert Rodriguez should direct a Star Wars movie IMHO.

[electric indigo]

Just back from seeing it, but I still have to process that shot of Jennifer Connelly in Vector's bed...

[Thom]

Still trying to process...

Spoiler

the sight of her eyes moving in that jar...

[Mazinger]

14 minutes ago, Thom said:

Still trying to process...

  Hide contents

the sight of her eyes moving in that jar...

Robocop 2 flashbacks

[kajnrig]

This movie is really Anime, isn't it? And unapologetic about it, too. That was another big impression I got from it. It LOVES its source material rather than distances itself so much that it loses all identity like other Hollywood anime adaptations do.

[technoblue]

7 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

This movie is really Anime, isn't it? And unapologetic about it, too. That was another big impression I got from it. It LOVES its source material rather than distances itself so much that it loses all identity like other Hollywood anime adaptations do.

I got that impression, and I thought it was just me. I loved it all the more because of it.

[Shadow]

Went to go see it today. Probably the best manga/anime to live action adaption so far. I really enjoyed it despite the poor pacing. It felt like a 3 hour movie at times while sitting in the theater. I did watch the anime movie the other day to get reacquainted with the story as it's been years since I saw it or read any of the manga.

[spanner]

Saw this the other day. Wasn't bad but wasn't great either. They've definitely left it open for a sequel. Kinda hope they do it but not a big deal if they don't.. 

[hachi]

Just saw this. As a non-manga reader blissfully unaware of whatever was butchered, I thought this was good. Not great, but definitely worth the ticket I paid for it.

[M'Kyuun]

14 hours ago, kajnrig said:

This movie is really Anime, isn't it? And unapologetic about it, too. That was another big impression I got from it. It LOVES its source material rather than distances itself so much that it loses all identity like other Hollywood anime adaptations do.

I think that's why it worked for me, and why, if anime remains popular here in the US, it'll enjoy a better shelf life than live action GitS, which seemed to cherry pick the things it remained faithful to. I get the sense, just from the OVA scenes I know, Alita didn't stray too far from the source.  I see people complaining about pacing, but I don't have that issue. There is a fair bit of stuff going on, but I didn't feel like anything was really rushed.  However, in hindsight

Spoiler

I forget who mentioned it earlier in this forum, but the scene where Alita gives her rally speech to the other Hunter-warriors to help her when she herself is only a newly minted HW herself seemed the stuff of Hollywood cheese. However, the scene itself, I understand, is straight from the manga, the only difference being that in the manga Alita was at that point an experienced HW who had earned enough cred to ask for help. For the sake of pacing rather than in spite of it, I think the way it was done can be forgiven to keep the story moving. Plus, it was nice to see the Lawnmower Man, Jeff Fahey, with his pack of robo dogs.  "He wasn't a dog lover."  Iconic Alita scenes.

If anything, I was worried that the romance story was going to feel rushed, or without substance, as most movie romances go- all action, a little witty banter along the way,  and yet two strangers risk life and limb for each other repeatedly and fall madly in love despite not really knowing each other at the end. I won't say all action movies are like that, but the vast majority that I've seen are. To that end, Alita showed a progression in the relationship over time. It worked for me better than most. Too, I'm guessing that's how it goes in the manga. It felt more rushed to me in the anime, but that seemed to be more compressed than the live action. 

Anyway, I think they set a benchmark with this film with both the look and their adherence to source.  As kajnrig says, it loves its source, and that's the impression I got as well. I enjoyed it, I hope it makes a profit, and I hope the story continues on the big screen.

[electric indigo]

My thought on the movie

Alita herself is the biggest treat of the movie. With all the other glitches (more below), the character itself is so strong and so flawless in acting & execution that this film not only works as an all-entertaining action movie, but also as a character drama and finally a successful manga adation.

Technically, we see contemporary action SF at it’s best. Visuals and cinematography take you off into another word and then bounce you around in perfectly choreographed action sequences.

Iron City - While the portrayal of the city wasn’t as candy-colored as in the first trailer, it never came across as the dire, filthy place where you’re just one step away from having your spinal cord stolen or your brain eaten by a rampant cyborg junkie while on your way to the next rat barbecue . Instead we see hipster-filled streets, cool bikes, and everybody enjoying the good life. Lush nature is just a drive away, and you can swim around a derelict martian spaceship. Why is everyone so desperate to get away from this place, again?

Talking about the spaceship, the introduction of the Berserker Body and how it ended up in Ido’s lab in the Manga made more sense.

I thought that Hugo and his gang’s scenes felt very superficial, I never felt it there. I can’t say if it was the actor or the direction, it never got above telenovela level, much wasted potential to give him more of an edge. The end of his arc was more powerful, though.

Makaku (Grewishka) was another grat waste in this movie. Badly introduced, he’s then treated like a typical B-grade goon and reminded me of the hapless Mean Machine in 95’s Judge Dredd. I did enjoy, however the design & protrayal of Zapan, though.

Nova was handled pretty cool, until he took his mask of and was - Edward Norton. Took me off for a second. Much like Christoph Waltz, I can’t unsee the actor walking around in a movie doing his shtick.

And a final nitpick: WTF was Idara Victor’s character for? every second shot had her sheepishly smling into the camera. At first I thought I had missed that she was actually mute, until she said something random. It reminded me of the black character in Hunger Games 2 that was just around to bring JLaw from shot A to B.

I left the cinema feeling well entertained, and the movie still stays with me. But I also felt something was missing.

I understand that the makers had to drop the body horror of the source material that is a cornerstone of Cyberpunk. But I also felt it misses out on some of the finer traits I treasure in Manga and Anime, the greys in the motivation of characters, the drama of the antagonists that gives gravitas to their story.