An observation about the YF-21(22)

[Chindenathus]

I found the image below the other day and It got me to wondering. Was the YF-21(22) the first

design to have the "Tri spade" thrust vectoring assembly? (I mean in real life, not in the Macross

continuity, That would be the SV: 51 series.)

[yellowlightman]

Would probably be better suited for the Aircraft Vs Thread in Other Scifi & Anime.

[Phyrox]

I found the image below the other day and It got me to wondering. Was the YF-21(22) the first

design to have the "Tri spade" thrust vectoring assembly? (I mean in real life, not in the Macross

continuity, That would be the SV: 51 series.)

off the top of my head I know the X-31 had a similar thrust-vectoring arrangement, and it was doing testing before M+

Edited August 30, 2007 by Phyrox

[IAD]

Maybe OT, but the WWII V2 ballastic missile had a four-way spade thrust-vector system, as I recall. Definitely, the X-31 beat the YF-21, though.

~Luke

[Knight26]

The X-31 was the first single engine aircraft to be fitted with paddle type thrust vectoring vanes, the first twin engine was a test F-18 used by DARPA.

[sketchley]

The Russian Vympel R-73 air-to-air missile also has thrust vectoring. It's significant because it's both the first (TVC A-to-A missile) and entered service in 1985! Though, it too is a 4 plate design.

[dizman]

Hey now, thats pretty cool looking on a F-16. What I want to know is if it actually worked well with only 1 engine.

[David Hingtgen]

It works fine on one engine, the X-31 can do everything a Super Flanker can, and more, including the Herbst turn, Hook, and Mongoose. NASA has videos you can watch of it: http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Movie/X-31/index.html

Specifically, the Mongoose with a ground reference--watch and be amazed: http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Movie/X-3...EM-0036-06.html (it's called the Mongoose as it's said to be the counter to the Cobra)

Still, I don't know of any plane that really has YF-21-looking paddles. They're usually short and square, not long and triangular like the YF-21 or SV-51. The F-22 actually has the closest to that, shape-wise, but they're simply 2D, 2-piece ones.

[eugimon]

holy crap, that mongoose manuever is amazing to watch.

[Chewie]

holy crap, that mongoose manuever is amazing to watch.

^^^

[Sumdumgai]

Woah, I didn't know that planes could pull stuff like the mongoose! Awesome stuff, thanks for posting the links to those vids David Hingtgen!

[IAD]

David brings up a good point, regarding paddle shape. From my experience, the SV-51's paddle shape is pretty bad, in terms of vectoring efficiency. The paddles are very narrow, so they tend to 'spill' air rather badly, and the angles on the vectoring faces cause the exhaust to flow outwards, towards the tip of each paddle. This effectively makes the exhaust duct exit diameter larger, which reduces the efflux velocity.

Of course, my experience is with a ducted fan, and not a turbine, but still, short, flat-inner-surface paddles (like those on the X-31, F-15S ACTIVE, F-22, as well as the YF-21 and VF-22.) seem to be more effective, and result in smaller thrust losses.

~Luke

[eugimon]

David brings up a good point, regarding paddle shape. From my experience, the SV-51's paddle shape is pretty bad, in terms of vectoring efficiency. The paddles are very narrow, so they tend to 'spill' air rather badly, and the angles on the vectoring faces cause the exhaust to flow outwards, towards the tip of each paddle. This effectively makes the exhaust duct exit diameter larger, which reduces the efflux velocity.

Of course, my experience is with a ducted fan, and not a turbine, but still, short, flat-inner-surface paddles (like those on the X-31, F-15S ACTIVE, F-22, as well as the YF-21 and VF-22.) seem to be more effective, and result in smaller thrust losses.

~Luke

but they would be worthless as feet.

[VF-19]

It works fine on one engine, the X-31 can do everything a Super Flanker can, and more, including the Herbst turn, Hook, and Mongoose. NASA has videos you can watch of it: http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Movie/X-31/index.html

Specifically, the Mongoose with a ground reference--watch and be amazed: http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Movie/X-3...EM-0036-06.html (it's called the Mongoose as it's said to be the counter to the Cobra)

Still, I don't know of any plane that really has YF-21-looking paddles. They're usually short and square, not long and triangular like the YF-21 or SV-51. The F-22 actually has the closest to that, shape-wise, but they're simply 2D, 2-piece ones.

Am I seeing that right? The X-31 is... Hovering?

[Apollo Leader]

I found the image below the other day and It got me to wondering. Was the YF-21(22) the first

design to have the "Tri spade" thrust vectoring assembly? (I mean in real life, not in the Macross

continuity, That would be the SV: 51 series.)

Was this Kawamori's F-16 design for Patlabor 2?

Throughout the years there have been proposals to put 2D and 3D thrust vectoring nozzles on the F-16.

[David Hingtgen]

I believe it should be basically hovering, the F-22 does something similar.

[Morpheus]

Wow, now we need Cobra vs Mongoose maneuver demonstration

[sketchley]

Was this Kawamori's F-16 design for Patlabor 2?

Yes. He also did an F-15 for that movie that mirrors the F-15 ACTIVE pretty closely; though with better colours.