Future Macross Comanchero?

[Fly4victory]

Since Kotobukiya is expanding their Real Mechanical Collection to include the Patlabor helicopter

http://www.fig-soul.com/01/f2_04_07_08_20.php?bang=38

and they already have the Jigabachi AV from Ghost in the Shell

http://www.hlj.com/product/KBYKP-27

how long before we see the Macross Comanchero?

[miriya]

That would be great! I would get one for sure.

[MechTech]

You know, I think the Jigabachi looks ugly, even with all that armament. BUT I've ALWAYS loved the Patlabor Gunship. Even though the gatling is a bit out of scale. A Comanche would be just TOO awesome. I've been tempted to build one. One of these days I will if they don't. Let's ALL e-mail them and say PLEASE. - MT

[big F]

You know, I think the Jigabachi looks ugly, even with all that armament. BUT I've ALWAYS loved the Patlabor Gunship. Even though the gatling is a bit out of scale. A Comanche would be just TOO awesome. I've been tempted to build one. One of these days I will if they don't. Let's ALL e-mail them and say PLEASE. - MT

As long as its 1/72.

[Kylwell]

How about the helios from neon genesis?

[sketchley]

You know, I think the Jigabachi looks ugly, even with all that armament. BUT I've ALWAYS loved the Patlabor Gunship. Even though the gatling is a bit out of scale. A Comanche would be just TOO awesome. I've been tempted to build one. One of these days I will if they don't. Let's ALL e-mail them and say PLEASE. - MT

Could the favouritism be because the Hellhound from Patlabor is also designed by Shouji Kawamori? Personally, I like both. The Jigabachi definitely fits it's namesake, diggerwasp, which is an ugly yet graceful insect. (Knowing the name also brings a new angle to the preying-on-insects Jigabachi vs. spider-like Tachikoma/Uchikoma/Fuchikoma battles, eh?)

The gatling gun on the Hellhound is supposed to be wickedly huge; it's primarily an anti-labor weapon. I really doubt that the largest sized real-world gatling guns on navy ships and inside fighter jets would do much more than knock out cameras and break the headlights on a standard labor, let alone a combat labor!

One complaint I have is that hlj's got their first appearance wrong. The 2nd episode of the first Stand Alone series - Tachikoma vs. the Think Tank.

Edited August 27, 2007 by sketchley

[Grayson72]

OOOOh cool, I'll be getting one of those. If they came out with the Comanchero I'd buy a whole squadron. I have five of the Dougram choppers in 1/72 scale.

[yellowlightman]

Kind of off topic, but is that Patlabor helicopter a kit? Guessing it is?

[Fly4victory]

Yes the Patlabor is a kit. Judging for the Jigabachi AV it should be a good one.

1/72 does make for a small helicopter.

[MilSpex]

The gatling gun on the Hellhound is supposed to be wickedly huge; it's primarily an anti-labor weapon. I really doubt that the largest sized real-world gatling guns on navy ships and inside fighter jets would do much more than knock out cameras and break the headlights on a standard labor, let alone a combat labor!

Really? The 20mm gattling on an A-10 fires depleted uranium shells that can defeat modern tanks.

Gattlings on ships aren`t designed to penetrate armour, just to put up a lead shield against incoming missiles.

[Noyhauser]

Could the favouritism be because the Hellhound from Patlabor is also designed by Shouji Kawamori? Personally, I like both. The Jigabachi definitely fits it's namesake, diggerwasp, which is an ugly yet graceful insect. (Knowing the name also brings a new angle to the preying-on-insects Jigabachi vs. spider-like Tachikoma/Uchikoma/Fuchikoma battles, eh?)

The gatling gun on the Hellhound is supposed to be wickedly huge; it's primarily an anti-labor weapon. I really doubt that the largest sized real-world gatling guns on navy ships and inside fighter jets would do much more than knock out cameras and break the headlights on a standard labor, let alone a combat labor!

One complaint I have is that hlj's got their first appearance wrong. The 2nd episode of the first Stand Alone series - Tachikoma vs. the Think Tank.

Actually, its supposed to be the one from the 2nd gig episode, as the baseplate of the model is embossed with the 2nd gig logo. (but yes you are right, the first appearance was in the first series.)

Edited August 29, 2007 by Noyhauser

[MechTech]

Heh, heh, no favoritism; I didn't know. If that's the case, Jigabachi is a good name. You can tell which series I haven't really kept up with . - MT

[Garou Kuroryuu]

The gatling gun on the Hellhound is supposed to be wickedly huge; it's primarily an anti-labor weapon. I really doubt that the largest sized real-world gatling guns on navy ships and inside fighter jets would do much more than knock out cameras and break the headlights on a standard labor, let alone a combat labor!

Actually, the A-10's gun (GAU-8 Avenger) is a 30mm 7-barrel gatling gun. It's the largest Gatling gun in service that I'm aware of, on an aircraft or any other vehicle. US Navy's Phalanx CIWS use 20mm 6-barrel guns. And as MilSpex said, those are mainly used to shred incoming threats to pieces, not to break through armor.

I'm sure Dave will jump in if I made any mistake.

Going back to the model itself. I find the Comanchero a little "simple" in terms of design, at least in the provided line art. It may look a lot better with some "fine-tunning" while building the mold.

[sketchley]

Actually, its supposed to be the one from the 2nd gig episode, as the baseplate of the model is embossed with the 2nd gig logo. (but yes you are right, the first appearance was in the first series.)

There was an "alternative" design that showed up in one episode of 2nd Gig (guy is killed but not killed, helicopter goes on autopilot, and takes command of all the other Jigabachi in the area.) But, if I remember correctly, it's look is different from the standard Jigabachi.

Mind you, from a marketing point of view, I understand why they are plugging it this way.

Agreed that the Commanchero needs a bit of tweaking. Perhaps along the lines of what Shoji Kawamori did to Starscream or the VF-1 (into the VF-0)?

[MilSpex]

Actually, the A-10's gun (GAU-8 Avenger) is a 30mm 7-barrel gatling gun. It's the largest Gatling gun in service that I'm aware of, on an aircraft or any other vehicle. US Navy's Phalanx CIWS use 20mm 6-barrel guns. And as MilSpex said, those are mainly used to shred incoming threats to pieces, not to break through armor.

I'm sure Dave will jump in if I made any mistake.

Going back to the model itself. I find the Comanchero a little "simple" in terms of design, at least in the provided line art. It may look a lot better with some "fine-tunning" while building the mold.

My mistake, 30MM indeed. Amazing weapon. Did some wiki-ing and the thing can fire 70 rounds a second (!) with only as few as 6 direct hits required to take out modern main battle tanks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Thunderb...Weapons_Systems

[Noyhauser]

Meh I could care less about the Commachero, its an dated, ugly design imo, and completely unlikely to ever see a model made out of it. Then again both the Jiga and the Hellhound don't have tail rotors or Contrarotating props, so... well another strike for realism. I've been waiting/praying for the hellhound, but given how wide the nose is, I'm having doubts.

edit: forgot picture

Edited August 30, 2007 by Noyhauser

[mechaninac]

The lack of a contra-rotating prop on the Jigabachi is not unrealistic. The AV has a vaned exhaust port on the tail boom to provide yaw control. In the Hellhound's case I don't know since I haven't seen any side views of the copter.

I have to agree that the Comanchero is a dated design, but no more so than a Hind Gunship, which seems to be it's design inspiration. And I agree that it is highly unlikely to ever be chosen as the subject of a plastic kit from any manufacturer, in any scale; still, it would be nice to see it get the Injection PS treatment... and there is always garage kit makers (also not very likely).

[Noyhauser]

The lack of a contra-rotating prop on the Jigabachi is not unrealistic. The AV has a vaned exhaust port on the tail boom to provide yaw control. In the Hellhound's case I don't know since I haven't seen any side views of the copter.

I have to agree that the Comanchero is a dated design, but no more so than a Hind Gunship, which seems to be it's design inspiration. And I agree that it is highly unlikely to ever be chosen as the subject of a plastic kit from any manufacturer, in any scale; still, it would be nice to see it get the Injection PS treatment... and there is always garage kit makers (also not very likely).

I saw the vaned exhaust port, (I've built my jiga already) and thats what I first thought too... but it looks far too small to counteract the force of the propellers imho. And I'd rather see the series do something more interesting rather than the Comanchero, like a EW-204 Multiped Tank.

[Fly4victory]

Then again both the Jiga and the Hellhound don't have tail rotors or Contrarotating props, so... well another strike for realism.

All helicopters require some device for anti-torque thanks to Newtons third law of motion, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

The AV has a vaned exhaust port on the tail boom to provide yaw control.

Correct, the exhaust port is on both the left and right side of the tail boom to provide directional control in yaw and anti-torque.

The only way a Hellhound, thank you for the correct name, can fly without anti-torque is if it is an auto-gyro or due to an unknown development in aviation. Doubt that it is an auto-gyro since they cannot hover unless there is a headwind that matches the necessary forward velocity to keep the main rotor spinning.

While the Hind is an old airframe, it is still very popular on the international market. Much cheeper and easier to maintain when compaired to other attack helicopters plus it can carry troops and small internal loads.

It would be nice to see some of the rotorcraft from Macross get some service in 1/72 so they can be displayed with the Hasegawa models.

On that note, has anyone turned a Seahawk into the SH-60 from Macross Zero yet?

Edit: Also, Thanks for the new photo. Still a great looking airframe.

Edited August 31, 2007 by Fly4victory

[Noyhauser]

All helicopters require some device for anti-torque thanks to Newtons third law of motion, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

That was my original point... I'm just saying that in the Jiga's case it looks quite anemic, and the hellhound's case its missing alltogether.

[sketchley]

As this piqued my interest, I dug out the TIA Patlabor the Movie and OVA tome that I have. On pg 73, there's a nice picture of the JGSDF SH/JGSDF Hellhound.

There's an exhaust port on the right side of the Hellhound (when viewed from the rear.) It's labelled (in typical Shouji Kawamori semi-legible scrawl) as a "counter nozzle" (counter-rotation nozzle). It's amusing that it's only on the one side, and that on the same page, there's an image of the Scout Helicopter, which also has the "counter nozzle", save that it's nozzle looks like it can be rotated to face in opposite directions.

The TIA Patlabor Movies II and III books essentially recycle the same images; though II has a few additional images, though none have the "counter nozzle".

I think that both artistic liberty has been taken with depicting these nozzles, as well as size not being an issue (what matters is the amount of force being produced by the air being shoved out of the nozzles. A small amount at high speed should produce the same amount of force as a large amount at low speed.)

[Noyhauser]

As this piqued my interest, I dug out the TIA Patlabor the Movie and OVA tome that I have. On pg 73, there's a nice picture of the JGSDF SH/JGSDF Hellhound.

There's an exhaust port on the right side of the Hellhound (when viewed from the rear.) It's labelled (in typical Shouji Kawamori semi-legible scrawl) as a "counter nozzle" (counter-rotation nozzle). It's amusing that it's only on the one side, and that on the same page, there's an image of the Scout Helicopter, which also has the "counter nozzle", save that it's nozzle looks like it can be rotated to face in opposite directions.

The TIA Patlabor Movies II and III books essentially recycle the same images; though II has a few additional images, though none have the "counter nozzle".

I think that both artistic liberty has been taken with depicting these nozzles, as well as size not being an issue (what matters is the amount of force being produced by the air being shoved out of the nozzles. A small amount at high speed should produce the same amount of force as a large amount at low speed.)

I stand corrected. Can we get a scan perhaps? Still though, I guess its a bit of anime magic...

Don't get me wrong, I like the designs and all... I think the hellhound was in my top 3 wants for models all time

[Fly4victory]

Notar is rather funny in that it is not just horizontal force from the fan but also the effect that the fan has on the downward flow from the main rotor blades. This is, of course, at a hover. In a conventional helicopter the tail rotor is "unloaded" due to the aerodynamic forces on the tail and a minor part the airflow around the aircraft when in forward flight.

The larger the tail the more unloading…the H tail design is very sound for the Notar.

Looking at the 530 and 500 Notar you can see the duct is on one side of the aircraft… which is true to the Hellhound based on the prior post. The Jig really doesn’t need larger ducts since it is a single seat aircraft, has two ducts, and with improved engine designs smaller engines will produce more power.

Other than not being able to see without computer interface and the flip down gatling gun The Jig seems to be a sound aircraft. Aerodynamics aside I would hate to see what happens to the Jig’s CG burning fuel, expending ordnance, and that funny gun flipping about.

Much rather have the Hellhound, can see with my own eyes, and a nice gatling gun mounted on the center of the fuselage so you don’t have the torque from the turret slewing like the 20MM in the old AH-1 Cobra.

For the Comanchero, looks mean but weird design to have a mast mounted sight and optics in the nose?????? Four engines driving one transmission and a four bladed rotor… what do you need all that power for sling load a destroid? The sea sergeant, a cargo aircraft, didn’t have that many engines. Won't even talk about where the gun is mounted. Still loved it as a kid.

I only have one Jig, still on the table, but can see lots of Hellhounds with different paint schemes. For the Comanchero may have some fun and make a Russian style opposite a similar styled SV-51.

I have yet to see Patlabor. Is there much Helicopter action?

[Noyhauser]

I have yet to see Patlabor. Is there much Helicopter action?

Thanks...

One extended scene. I found this AMV that has some scenes from it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULoD7F8BfU4

[sketchley]

Patlabor II has the helicopter action. Mind you, Patlabor shouldn't be considered an action/mecha show. It's more driven by characters and plot. The action in the movies is great, and they've tried to make it as realistic as the medium allows.

That said, the thought provoking parts of Patlabor II are that it's premise is based off of real-world events (the Japanese first overseas SDF mission,) and real-world events copied (or have a screaming simularity to) at least one sequence in the movie (Tokyo sarin gas attack.) So, if you do watch the movie, expect something along the lines of "Clear and Present Danger", and not something silly and no-brainer, like the standard Ah-nold movie.

EDIT: it should also be mentioned that Patlabor II is the resolution for the characters. As such, it's got a much greater characterization than Patlabor I (which is all action and plot.) On it's own, it's great, but if you have the chance to see some of the other Patlabor anime first, the movie becomes that much better.

Edited September 1, 2007 by sketchley

[electric indigo]

I'm currently busy with the Jigabachi with a bit of modding going on. The overall quality of the kit is good, though the surface details are not on the same level as Kotobukiya's excellent Armored Core line. But maybe it's supposed to be more in an anime style.

I omitted the front "legs" for a more menacing appeareance and replaced the rotor for more realism.

[Fly4victory]

Great job filling the center line seam.

The mod looks nice with the larger rotor disk but the visible PC links will increase the radar visibility. The Jigabachi had a shroud to cover the PC links like the now cancelled Comanche.

My model is still sitting waiting to be airbrushed.

[electric indigo]

With the external weapon load, would the exposed rotor really matter in terms of radar visibility? The whole body is not exactly stealthy.

Any mods planned on your kit?

[MechTech]

Looks great. I still think its an unorthadox design. - MT

[Fly4victory]

With the external weapon load, would the exposed rotor really matter in terms of radar visibility? The whole body is not exactly stealthy.

Correct external stores increase the radar cross-section.

There is also the doppler phase shift due to the spinning rotor blades which may have been solved by absorbent material.

I just didn’t like the shroud around the PC links, internal weapons stores on a folding wing and then you have a hang-fire....

So much money down the development drain.

As for my model no mods….just build it gear up. I plan to do a couple of paint schemes on the hellhound but just plain gray on the Jigabachi for now.

I do have an old 1/72 58D and think the Jigabachi would look good opposite it in OD green as part of a scout attack team.

[Awacs]

You know, I think the Jigabachi looks ugly, even with all that armament.

See that is actually why I like the Jigabachi. It is a terribly ugly creation that seems to nicely evoke its namesake - like a wasp it buzzes through the air like a hungover, aggressive, 800-point gorilla........

But then some of my favourite aircraft don't fit the generally accepted ideas of aesthetically pleasing.

I have to say the Comanchero would make a nice little piece - it would probably be the kit that broke my duck in terms of Macross kits.

Karl

[electric indigo]

Jigabachi is finished

[Fly4victory]

Yes!!! That's the ticket.

Tricycle landing gear. Very nice.

[orguss01]

Where did you comandeer the landing gear?you put a shroud/radar on.. LOOks good...

[laroy]

Since Kotobukiya is expanding their Real Mechanical Collection to include the Patlabor helicopter

http://www.fig-soul.com/01/f2_04_07_08_20.php?bang=38

and they already have the Jigabachi AV from Ghost in the Shell

http://www.hlj.com/product/KBYKP-27

how long before we see the Macross Comanchero?

When is the Hellhound due for release? Thank in advance!!!