Roleplaying Geeks Unite

[mikeszekely]

Man, I wish I had a basement, with a good gaming table, and more money for books... instead I got married, live in a tiny apartment, and do less interesting things with my money like pay bills and what not. Occasionally, if Borders sends me a good coupon, I might buy a book, but I guess that'll stop soon, since I have ZERO interest in 4th edition now (didn't like Sagas, and I'm not a fan of the WoW style of art they're supposedly switching to). That and the fact that I haven't been interested in any of the 3.5 books that they've released since Drow of the Underdark.

Oh well, maybe the third edition books will drop in price; I can go back and get a few I missed.

[JELEINEN]

Man, I wish I had a basement, with a good gaming table, and more money for books... instead I got married, live in a tiny apartment, and do less interesting things with my money like pay bills and what not. Occasionally, if Borders sends me a good coupon, I might buy a book, but I guess that'll stop soon, since I have ZERO interest in 4th edition now (didn't like Sagas, and I'm not a fan of the WoW style of art they're supposedly switching to). That and the fact that I haven't been interested in any of the 3.5 books that they've released since Drow of the Underdark.

Oh well, maybe the third edition books will drop in price; I can go back and get a few I missed.

I don't see the WoW-ness in the art previews they've released: http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e&a...index.php#style

I'm looking forward to 4e. I won't decide to get it for sure until it's out and I can see it, but so far, I really like what I'm hearing. Then again, I think the Saga Edition of the Star Wars game is amazingly good.

[CoryHolmes]

While not WoW-style, that art is still crap.

[wolfx]

OT: But do many ppl here play other geeky boardgames like Settlers of Catan and stuff? I kinda fell out of RPG-ing after my usual GMs retired from GM-ing and had other commitments.

[mikeszekely]

I don't see the WoW-ness in the art previews they've released: http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e&a...index.php#style

I'm looking forward to 4e. I won't decide to get it for sure until it's out and I can see it, but so far, I really like what I'm hearing. Then again, I think the Saga Edition of the Star Wars game is amazingly good.

Well, I guess that rumor went unconfirmed, which is fine. Still, the art style is very comic bookish... not sure how I like it, but I'm inclined to say that I still prefer the textbook look of third edition. I can't believe that's from the same guy who did Fiendish Codex II!

The link you included has a lot of great info, thanks! Reading it almost makes me excited for 4e... almost, until I remember that it's supposed to be more like Sagas, and as I mentioned, I don't really like Sagas. The bottom line for me is that while I do think that a lot of 3.5e needs simplified and streamlined, I thought Sagas took it a little too far.

[Roy Focker]

Why wait for a coupon from borders. Try ebay. There's a ton discount game book sellers there.

[mikeszekely]

Why wait for a coupon from borders. Try ebay. There's a ton discount game book sellers there.

A.) I don't do eBay. Ever. Under any circumstances.

B.) Borders sends me a coupon in my e-mail every week, usually between 20-30% off. So instead of buying online from anyone and then sitting around waiting for it to be shipped, and either hoping that it doesn't get stolen by the neighbors or that I'm home when UPS tries to deliver it so I don't have to drive to the local UPS facility to pick it up, I can drive five minutes down the road to my local Borders. Immediate gratification, less hassle.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Well,

apparently Kevin Siembieda revealed in a podcast earlier today that Palladium finally got the license for the Robotech RPG back today. For those that care, don't care, or simply hate my guts.

[Roy Focker]

Gee months ago it sounded like the deal was nearly done and the book would be released about now. Since they've got it does mean they will do it. Then again I'm still waiting for Recon: modern and Warpath. It is suppose to be Manga Sized. I'll buy it to check it out but I'll still be using Mekton.

[yellowlightman]

Palladium has a podcast? That's awfully forward thinking for a company that's still stuck in the '80's.

[Roy Focker]

For those that care. A new edition of Mekton is in the works under the nickname "M Zero Project". Sounds like it is in the early stages but the combat damage system option known as the Cinematic System from the Mekton Z Tactical Display will be the base for the new core combat system.

[Roy Focker]

Well I listed to the that Robotech online radio show. Do you think that Palladium can bring the goods?

I have doubts. Palladium wasn't the first RPG I played but the first one I started to collect. They placed so much focus on Rifts and could/wouldn't do another books that it gave me pently of time to explore the larger market. I found a lot different (often better) games. Sounds like HG is willing to give them plenty of support. I do think Palladium will give this book priorty. It will be released. No doubt about that but will I be inspired and amazed by it? The old Robotech line looked offical but the rules never felt like the anime too me.

[CoryHolmes]

Speaking as a player and lover of the old-style Robotech RPG (which I prefer over the show itself, go figure) I have to say that I'm not too impressed by most of that podcast. The new artwork and such is and always will be a great thing, but that whole "manga--sized" deal is just a turn-off for me. I was buoyed by the fact that there'll be a "special edition" that's their regular size with some extra goodies tossed in.

As for the rules, I always thought that their system (clunky as it may be) struck a good balance between being anime-accurate and being playable. I mean, if you went with the anime as a bible, the VF-1D would be a death trap and the Cyclones wouldn't be able to do anything. With that in mind, and healthy imagination, their version of Robotech is a great breath of fresh air. I especially enjoyed their take on the Reconstruction Era, set between to the first two generations and dealing with the leftover Zentradi, a fractured world government that was rapidly losing any real power, the up-and-coming Armies of the Southern Cross (I always enjoy playing ASC prototype mecha side-by-side with VTs and Destroids). That's an era that the series skipped a great deal of and it's a pity. Some of their later non-canon stuff is also great, such as the idea that a pocket of Robotech Masters survived into the Invid-occupied Earth of the third generation, and now have enough Flowers of Life to rebuild their armada if they ever escaped Earth. In that story, you could have mecha and characcters from all three generations battling with and against each other.

Basically, RT the RPG works if you look at it as being more about getting the general atmosphere of the anime right and not as a literal interpretaion thereof.

[Roy Focker]

I agree about the size of the book. 8x11 just opens easier across your lap or table. Why buy the smaller Manga edition and then 6 months later or buy the other version. Either you'll buy the smaller one or wait. Plus doesn't 8X11 scan better?

[CoryHolmes]

Plus doesn't 8X11 scan better?

Maybe that's why the companies are going to the smaller size, then

[yellowlightman]

Palladium will always have trouble turning out a decent product since it's stuck so far up Kevin Siembieda's ass. Rubbish rules that are clunky and hard to figure out, not to mention hampered by awful organization and deserately need to be rewritten and revised since they haven't been touched since the mid 80's. Awful book layouts with pathetic art. Minimal play testing, if any. Also, in the case of Robotech, a severe lack of world information and tons of errors for what little IS there.

Palladium certainly is large enough to turn out a decent product, but why bother when the fans keep buying the dredge they turn out?

[sketchley]

I agree with the poor layout, less than commentable artwork, and a chronic problem with meeting publication deadlines. However all rules, no matter the system, have limitations and clunkiness. The lack of world information and errors is something that we can say in hindsight, given our unprecedented access to the original material and translations of it. At the time the books were written and published, there was literally nothing. Therefore, give them a break on it, and blame HG for whatever information or disinformation they got.

I quite enjoy the Robotech RPG game, and ignore the clunky part of the rules. The end results were always fun. I agree with CoryHolmes's points too. Return of the Masters was a great addition to the series! Along with fleshing out of the in between periods with the comics Malcontent Uprisings and Invid War, those three created what the animation should've looked and felt like (a true mix of all three anime.)

I don't currently play Robotech (I play Macross :!: ), but I have a soft spot for the game, despite it's hunched back, scars and warts. Perhaps that's because I don't play the rules literaly, and as is the case with ALL RPGs, it's the people you play with that make a game great, or not.

[mikeszekely]

it's the people you play with that make a game great, or not.

That's about the size of it. I don't think I'd enjoy the D&D campaign I'm playing nearly as much if I wasn't playing with my current group.

[Roy Focker]

lol I was refering about scanning character sheets.

[mikeszekely]

lol I was refering about scanning character sheets.

For D&D, you don't have to. Wizards has a ton of different kinds of character sheets available to download as PDFs straight from the website. I use the one from Player's Handbook, combined with the sheet in Magic Item Compendium.

[1st Border Red Devil]

What do you want to see in the new version of the Robotech RPG? Besides, of course, a complete system change. Palladium now has the license for good or ill.

Ok, I'll start with my list of things I want.

1.) Cleaving closer to the Tv series, vis-a-vis The Masters War and The New Generation. This specifically refers to things shown in the Tv series and not based on stuff from the novels or the badly researched comics (SX Point 83/Ruins of the SDF-01 come immediately to mind as well as the locations of New Macross and Monument City's).

2.) Given that there is literally a mountain of items (mecha, warships, small arms and even WIDGETS) that fell through the cracks last time around (which really wasn't Palladium's fault as much as Harmony Gold's), I'd like to see these things catalogued. Given Palladium's history with Rifts and cramming books full of STUFF, I think Kevin and crew will deliver this time around. It doesn't hurt that there are those from the fanbase sending artwork acquired from various old anime books & magazines (My Anime, Animec and Out), cd-roms with pristine screen captures (thank you Restored Originals/Robotech) as well as whatever Harmony Gold has from its vaults (which, according to this past podcast is quite a bit).

3.) Correcting misinformation from the original RPG books. This ranges from the classification of the Destroids to showing which of the Southern Cross Battloids actually chop to which forces (well, at least in terms of the original series since things DO change in Robotech). Getting the proper weapons loadouts this time will help immensely, like adding all the various weapons that were left off the VFA-6 Alpha (showing that it really would be able to keep itself in combat longer than the VF-1 Valkyrie).

4.) An MOS-based character creation system. Kevin actually said this was a possibility in the last podcast, so that we do away with page after page of 1 character class and such.

5.) Minimal cut-and-paste from the old stuff. This is not likely, since the nature of the information has changed alot over the years, but I suspect there will be at least a little cut-n-paste (character SDC levels, some vehicle entries etc). I would gladly eat a telephone (reciever and all, with ketchup no less) if they got rid of the STUPID clip/e-clip for the ubiquitous (and proper) magazine. A clip refers to either a stripper clip or en-bloc clip, neither of which seem to be used in Robotech's small arms.

6.) With regards to non-canon enemies (or even canon enemies that are only mentioned and never seen, like the Anti-Unification League from The Macross Saga and Space Pirates from Half Moon), logical mecha and weapons. Most Earth-based high-tech bandits in the post-Macross period would use the Zentraedi's Tactical Battlepod as the basis for their mecha. Chop the ostrich legs off and put on a set of human-style legs and you turn the TBP into a knock-off Destroid.

7.) Rules to play 'bad guys'! What if I want to play an AUL campaign where my players are at odds with the UEG? What about Space Pirates preying on civilian shipping between Earth and Mars/Jupiter? I ran a game at Palladium Open House where my players were all Bioroid Terminators that had been captured humans reprocessed into willing servants of the fallen Robotech Masters. We need rules to do that. And since the Stage 1-5 concept of the Invid is not borne out in the Tv series (all Invid are either the humanoid 'slug' originally called Stage 4, or the Humaniform Solugi), we should be able to play a mixed Invid mecha team (Invid Protector Powered Armors, Scout Fighter Jocks and Stormtrooper 'Destroids').

8.) Hand in hand with the last want is having the rules in place so that if we play 'bad guys', the UEF mecha scale down and the 'bad guy' units scale up. In other words, do not link the MDC values to being 'actual values' and instead make them 'situational values'. That means ANY mecha can be made into a Mook, regardless of character affiliation.

9.) No more 'kewl but stupid' non-canon mecha/ideas. I can live with Eric Wujick's Mecha Su-Dai, but for cripes sakes don't encourage players to bring a knife to a gunfight! The United Earth Government isnt going to start creating giant mecha with hand weapons as primary systems (in otherwords, the UEG isnt going to fund something like the Gladius Destroid from the old Strike Force supplement). A battle mace or your gunpod as a blunt instrument is a last ditch weapon. The Zentraedi Melee Specialist is a perfectly fine character if you want to make mecha-to-Zentraedi pitfighting in some Non-Aligned or AUL based city-state. As the Palladium bumper sticker says 'He who lives by the Vibro-blade dies by the Particle Beam'.

10.) Fill in the gaps with stuff that is already pre-existing in Robotech's source materials. The Improved Battlepod and Officer's Pod from The Sentinels make perfect enemy mecha for an early Pioneer Mission campaign. The exoskeleton of the SDF-03 and the weirdly named SDF-08 ships would fit for Rogue Zentraedi (micronized) that are scattered about the galaxy (reference Metal Fire). The old comic books from Eternity have plenty of designs that could be mined, as the underlying art would still be owned by Harmony Gold. The Garland-like Prototype Cyclone (that became the basis for the Tri-Charger in Zillion) and the VF-7 Sylphide-like VTOL from The Sentinels are also perfect examples of designs that the UEF might field during the post-Macross period.

Thats about all I can think of at the moment.

[mikeszekely]

*waves hands in arcane pattern* Arise, dead thread! Arise!

Ok, seriously, the new D&D (aka D&D Next, aka 5th Edition) Player's Handbook is out today. Any takers?

My group and I were big on 3e/3.5e, and we dabbled in Pathfinder. We really didn't like 4e, though. From what I've seen (my group and I did the beta playtests), 5e doesn't really remind me of 4e (which is good), and it seems a bit simpler than 3e (which is good and bad). There's a lot of flexibility and a greater emphasis on roleplaying in the new rules, but I think a lot of that comes down to players and DMs making best-judgement calls in roleplaying scenarios whereas 3e had weirdly specific rules with complicated (yet often balanced) math for practically every situation you could think of.

Well, I figure I'll buy the core books this time, at least. Anyone else?

[Nekko Basara]

My copy should be waiting at home today. Been playing the "beta" version for about five months. I haven't played much of any other versions since 2nd ed. This one seems very old-school, back to those roots. I dig it.

[Skull Leader]

also Robotech Tactics... this is a thing now, and I'll be interested to pick up a set when it goes to market (if only to paint them all up in DYRL style)

[Hoptimus]

I gave up on WOTC after 3.5 ed and especially 4th ED. With the OGL clones I started playing Swords & Wizardry(Clone of D&D 0 ed) and it was a nice huge refreshing load of rules off our backs. Now we are back to ROLE playing and way less ROLL playing. Combat takes minutes,adventures are fun and the improv along with the beer drinking is fantastic. I don't think I will go back to the modern D&D but I did read the 5th edition rules and at least it seems like a step back into ROLE playing and not ROLL playing with MINI's as 4th Ed was.

I got my group to play some of my Robotech campaign set in the New Gen era and we had fun but damn Palladiums complicated rules make the game SSSSLLLLOOOOOWWWWWW.

[Old_Nash]

Threadt Rised from your grave XD

[Mr March]

I haven't RPG gamed in decades, but I know well of the problems finding the balance in our games of old between the min/max ROLL-players vs. the story-telling ROLE-players. I just recently listened to the DLC podcast on 5by5, where they discuss a lot of video, table top adn board gaming. They chatted a lot about the new edition of D&D. Apparently, there is a shift in this edition going back to an earlier form of D&D and several new mechanics that reward/encourage disadvantaging your characters with personalities that might not always benefit the player in all situations.

http://5by5.tv/dlc/35

Don't really have any opinions myself since I've long been out of it, but thought I'd mention the podcast for anyone interested

[Dynaman]

I'm a GURPS fan myself, have not played any RPGs in almost 10 years though.

[Roy Focker]

I'm waiting for Mekton Zero to come out.

[abbadon]

I played a ton of D&D, World of Darkness, and Robotech among others back in the day. I still buy RPG rule books (physical and pdf copies) just to read them, but I haven't played a single game in years. Recently I bought The One Ring, and backed Call of Cthulhu on Kickstarter. Looking forward to what D&D 5th Ed. has to offer.

[Penguin]

Picked up the 5e PH last weekend (as select hobby stores got it early). Nice piece of work. My groups are both playing the Marvel Heroic Roleplaying from Margaret Weis Productions right now, so I'll have to look for an opportune moment to bring D&D back around. Still deciding if I'll run Tyranny of Dragons. Might just wait for the DMG and MM first.

[mikeszekely]

Picked up the 5e PH last weekend (as select hobby stores got it early). Nice piece of work. My groups are both playing the Marvel Heroic Roleplaying from Margaret Weis Productions right now, so I'll have to look for an opportune moment to bring D&D back around. Still deciding if I'll run Tyranny of Dragons. Might just wait for the DMG and MM first.

I could wait for a few reviews, but I'll probably pick up the PH next week sometime.

Oh, and I'm definitely waiting for the DMG and MM. My group has more fun when the DM makes it up. It's not like we need to start a 5e campaign right now, anyway... my buddy decided we're going to do a Warhammer 40K Deathwatch campaign. If it's as fun as Dark Heresy was, we're in for a treat.

How is the Marvel Heroic RPG? I saw that last time I was at the bookstore, but I passed on it.

[Penguin]

Personally, I love the Marvel Heroic RPG. It's my favourite RPG in some 30 years of this hobby. I could write an essay on it without breaking a sweat. However, it's not for everyone. Those who enjoy the simulation side of RPGs would find the game too abstract, and for others its lack of boundaries can be daunting. Since my crews have come to prefer lighter and lighter rules, they took to it enthusiastically.

As a system it works well for the super hero genre. I always found super hero RPGs to be too limited in their need to codify every effect any given power is capable of. The MHRPG relies on improvisation and imagination on a theme more than strict definitions of every power, and allows for a much more "comic book" feel. Other genres, however, might not model so well under such a style.

[renegadeleader1]

I just recently started playing Prime Directive, the Star Trek RPG after a co-worker invited me into his group to replace their engineer. This is my first real RPG experience as I don't have many friends into RPGs.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Wow, thread necromancy abounds recently. 2014 was a pretty interesting year for tabletop Roleplaying.

Hmm, well, for those that know of it, Troll Lord Games recently ran a successful Kickstarter that resulted in the Castles & Crusades Players Handbook, Monsters & Treasures AND Castle Keepers Guide in full color. They just finished another Kickstarter for The World of Airdhe (their primary setting) that will have both the Player's Guide and Codex of Airdhe in full color.

White Wolf/Onyx Path Publishing ran the 20th Anniversary Wraith the Oblivion Kickstarter and got almost 300k, which means there is going to be a gigantic amount of stuff in the Wraith20 book and follow-on products.

Finally, Mantic Games ran a Kickstarter for their clone of the old Games Workshop Advanced HeroQuest called Dungeon Saga: The Dwarf King's Quest. They got over $1mil US and have a crapload of add-ons and such.

And if you're more into CRPGs, Harebrained Studios announced the next expansion for Shadowrun Returns will be Hong Kong. Deadman's Switch was a tad lackluster in some cases, but Dragonfall was much better and they even released the Dragonfall Director's Cut which greatly upgraded the game, adding in a great deal of content hinted at in the Dragonfall line.