Roleplaying Geeks Unite

[1st Border Red Devil]

This topic was titled D&D 4th Edition coming in 2008.

Well,

Wizards of the Coast made it official at GenCon that the 4th Edition of the Dungeons & Dragons RPG is coming next year. Apparently, this new version will owe quite a bit to the SAGA edition of the Star Wars RPG. Among the claims I've read were that characters shouldn't take quite so long to come up with as they do now (upwards of an hour or more, even longer if you're making a character above 1st level). Play is supposed to be a little less cumbersome than it is now which will supposedly lessen the amount of arguing at the table over some obscure-assed rule. One person indicated that the artwork will be less of the current 'Dungeon Punk' high-fantasy drek that passes for D&D artwork, while another said that it will basically be World of Warcraft style.

The new core setting will not be The World of Greyhawk. No word yet on what campaign setting will be used. My guess is that Eberron is slated to be the core setting. In a related note, RPGA's Living Greyhawk is set to blow up before the new year (so, if you're going to DragonCon, get your LG fix while you can). No word on how it will end, though my guess is that they'll do something absurd related to Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk, probably Iggwilv will come back and kick the crap out of The Circle of Eight. Or it could go out with a whimper and simply fade into nothingness until Troll Lord Games and Gary Gygax start releasing the parts of Castle Zagyg in the next year.

The DragonLance license was not renewed (which is sort of old news) since its set to make WotC money with the DVD Direct-to-Video anime (starring Lucy Lawless as Goldmoon and Keifer Sutherland as Raistlin) release in December. No word on what will happen to the setting, if it will be made into another base WotC product with 4th edition. Dave Arneson's Blackmoor setting owner Zeitgeist Games got their license renewed and shall retain the D&D 3.5 core rules for the time being. In fact, ZG is set to release several supplements soon including The Temple of the Frog, Clock and Steam as well as Riders of the Hak.

So, eventhough Greyhawk and DragonLance are gonna go bye-bye with WotC, Blackmoor (the oldest D&D setting) will remain as will Gary's Zagyg setting (Greyhawk in all but name).

[mikeszekely]

Screw 4th edition. I like 3rds artwork, and I can't stand World of Warcraft's cartoony crap. And while I'm not necessarily fond of Greyhawk as a whole for a campaign setting, it has the simplest core cosmology and pantheons. Eberron has a few ideas I liked, like the action point system and the Warforged race, but the setting as a whole is my least favorite.

I'm all for a streamlining of the rules, but if it's like Sagas, it goes too far.

Not to mention, I've invested a fortune in 3rd and 3.5 books. I don't really feel like investing in a new, inferior system, especially when all the good stuff from the Complete series is likely to be left by the wayside.

*sighs* I started playing with 3rd, and I always thought the people who clung to AD&D were like dinosaurs who couldn't get with the times. Now I know how they feel.

And for all my complaining, since they're releasing one core book a month starting next May or June, I'll probably wind up picking them up even while I try to complete my collection of 3rd and 3.5 books.

Edited August 26, 2007 by mikeszekely

[briscojr84]

Hey 1st BRD, any word on if they are redoing d20 Modern, Future etc. as well or just the D&D stuff.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Hey 1st BRD, any word on if they are redoing d20 Modern, Future etc. as well or just the D&D stuff.

I haven't heard of anything yet, but I'm assuming that they will be updated as well. Im guessing they will wait for fallout (positive or negative) from the release of 4th Edition before trying to update d20 Modern or d20 Future.

[briscojr84]

I haven't heard of anything yet, but I'm assuming that they will be updated as well. Im guessing they will wait for fallout (positive or negative) from the release of 4th Edition before trying to update d20 Modern or d20 Future.

Thanks for the info.

[CoryHolmes]

Not to mention, I've invested a fortune in 3rd and 3.5 books. I don't really feel like investing in a new, inferior system, especially when all the good stuff from the Complete series is likely to be left by the wayside.

...

And for all my complaining, since they're releasing one core book a month starting next May or June, I'll probably wind up picking them up even while I try to complete my collection of 3rd and 3.5 books.

Now you know how Magic players feel. They've been hosed for years by WotC and their incessent rereleases.

[briscojr84]

Now you know how Magic players feel. They've been hosed for years by WotC and their incessent rereleases.

Word of advice stay away from Ohio then. You'll want to kill any of those guys if you ever meet them.

[GutsAndCasca]

I like AD&D 1st edition rules. I still have my copy of "Unearthed Arcana." They didn't need to make any other editions. Man, I haven't played AD&D for soooooooooooooOOO long. I miss those late nights full of pizza and dice throwing. Man, 13 years goes by so fast.

[mikeszekely]

I like AD&D 1st edition rules. I still have my copy of "Unearthed Arcana." They didn't need to make any other editions. Man, I haven't played AD&D for soooooooooooooOOO long. I miss those late nights full of pizza and dice throwing. Man, 13 years goes by so fast.

Yeah, I've always kind of thought of AD&D as being needlessly complicated. Of course, in a few years 4th edition players are going to be saying the same thing about 3rd...

[Roy Focker]

D20 in general is too complicated for no reason.

[CoryHolmes]

Word of advice stay away from Ohio then. You'll want to kill any of those guys if you ever meet them.

Why do you say that?

[briscojr84]

Why do you say that?

Roy does have a bit of a point, with feats, skills, and abilities it does some time get cumbersome, I'm just glad they ditched THAC0 for 3rd.

[mikeszekely]

Apparently, the forums over at Wizards have two threads, one for those excited for 4th, and one for people to complain about 4th. Guess which one has more replies? My friend over there told me that, as of this morning, there was maybe 20 in the pro, and over 100 in the negative.

[briscojr84]

Apparently, the forums over at Wizards have two threads, one for those excited for 4th, and one for people to complain about 4th. Guess which one has more replies? My friend over there told me that, as of this morning, there was maybe 20 in the pro, and over 100 in the negative.

I can't blame people for complaining, Wizards keeps doing really stupid stuff, they've canceled at least one D20 book that people wanted, pretty much ignores d20 for the last year or so, are going to start putting out four sets of magic a year instead of three and now are changing the D&D format again.

[mikeszekely]

I can't blame people for complaining, Wizards keeps doing really stupid stuff, they've canceled at least one D20 book that people wanted, pretty much ignores d20 for the last year or so, are going to start putting out four sets of magic a year instead of three and now are changing the D&D format again.

I'm not a Magic player, so I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that each new Magic set can be used in a deck with cards that go all the way back to the original?

I think the thing that's getting D&D players all fired up is the fact that, at $30-40, most of us have hundreds of dollars tied up in 3rd and 3.5 edition books. I myself have invested about $575, and some of them I just bought, like Drow of the Underdark. And now Wizards is telling me to shelve them all and start over from scratch on a new system that, if it's like Sagas, I don't even like.

[Duymon]

d20 is a great system and the DnD 3.5 rules are totally fine as is. Anyone that can't handle 3.5 rules just isn't nerd enough. I mean, god me and my friends could handle the actual Table Top 2nd edition in grade school no problem ()

On a side note, d20 DOES have some stupid flaws that allow for insane min-maxing and making totally stupid out-of-whack characters.

For example, 2-handed sword wielding rogues with amazingly high strength lol

[briscojr84]

I'm not a Magic player, so I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that each new Magic set can be used in a deck with cards that go all the way back to the original?

I think the thing that's getting D&D players all fired up is the fact that, at $30-40, most of us have hundreds of dollars tied up in 3rd and 3.5 edition books. I myself have invested about $575, and some of them I just bought, like Drow of the Underdark. And now Wizards is telling me to shelve them all and start over from scratch on a new system that, if it's like Sagas, I don't even like.

Only if they are reprinted in a currently legal set, and I understand the griping about $30-40 dollar thing, I have a four shelf book-shelf crammed with 3rd and 3.5 stuff myself. It just seems wizards is shooting themselves in the foot on several fronts.

[Hurin]

Apparently, the forums over at Wizards have two threads, one for those excited for 4th, and one for people to complain about 4th. Guess which one has more replies? My friend over there told me that, as of this morning, there was maybe 20 in the pro, and over 100 in the negative.

Which is, of course, a totally meaningless observation (by your friend, not you. Don't mean to single you out).

People who are happy (or don't really care either way) are much less motivated to post anything. Whereas, there's always somebody ready to indignantly spew their righteous anger and crap all over something.

By the standard of "pro vs con" message board posts, every computer game released in the last decade has been a major catastrophe.

[mikeszekely]

Which is, of course, a totally meaningless observation (by your friend, not you. Don't mean to single you out).

People who are happy (or don't really care either way) are much less motivated to post anything. Whereas, there's always somebody ready to indignantly spew their righteous anger and crap all over something.

By the standard of "pro vs con" message board posts, every computer game released in the last decade has been a major catastrophe.

C'mon, Hurin. You know there's nothing we love better than battying at these boards. If we're going to have a D&D thread, it's got to be to complain about how much we hate the new edition a year before it's even out.

[CoryHolmes]

I'm not a Magic player, so I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that each new Magic set can be used in a deck with cards that go all the way back to the original?

Only if they are reprinted in a currently legal set, and I understand the griping about $30-40 dollar thing, I have a four shelf book-shelf crammed with 3rd and 3.5 stuff myself. It just seems wizards is shooting themselves in the foot on several fronts.

And that's assuming that the new reprinted cards haven't had some rules tweak that changes them from their orrginal incarnations. Also, the expansion sets are used in blocks of three. So as soon as the new product comes out, the last one is no longer legal which means that all the players have to ditch those cards and buy the new ones...

It's like paper crack, it really is. I watch these people drop (literally) hundreds of dollars a week on this hobby and I just have to shake my head.

[briscojr84]

And that's assuming that the new reprinted cards haven't had some rules tweak that changes them from their orrginal incarnations. Also, the expansion sets are used in blocks of three. So as soon as the new product comes out, the last one is no longer legal which means that all the players have to ditch those cards and buy the new ones...

It's like paper crack, it really is. I watch these people drop (literally) hundreds of dollars a week on this hobby and I just have to shake my head.

Heh, the official term is five color crack, I worked [more like kept it in business] in a comic and gaming shop for three years, and if I had a penny for every ten bucks that was dropped I'd have twenty years worth of warhammer stuff to put together.

And what really annoyed me about the magic players, we'd have d20 or D&D once a week and they had around 4-5 tournaments a week and had the gall to b*tch about us taking up table space.

[CoryHolmes]

And what really annoyed me about the magic players, we'd have d20 or D&D once a week and they had around 4-5 tournaments a week and had the gall to b*tch about us taking up table space.

But it's true. Whenever I go shopping for a dining room table, I always consider the "gaming factor". If it's not spacious enough for four gamers (complete with charsheets and associated world books), dice, and a GM screen area, then I'm not interested and pass on it.

[yellowlightman]

It's kind of amusing how WotC seems to be maximizing the profits on D&D, with new editions and extra BS just like Magic. That said, there are much better roleplaying games than D&D out there (in all aspects; setting, rules, price) so whatever.

[chrono]

Wizard's is only doing what nearly every other gaming company does. "Force upgrade" to keep the profits at a growth phase. It's their own fault for fostering the faster = better scheme of business on the public.

And frankly if you look at it v3 had been in the works from the mid-late 90's and anything over 5 years old today is perceived as 'ancient' by their target audience.

[mikeszekely]

So I hear that Wizards is going to use Forgotten Realms as the new core, but to simplify it they're going to advance the setting 100 years after some major disaster so they can pretty much toss out everything we know and love about it. What's more, there's a rumor that they're doing away with the law/chaos alignment axis, and re-writing the entire core cosmology in the process (for example, there's no real difference between demons and devils now).

[Effect]

The rereleases of the rules is partly why I stick to just reading the novels of the various settings (mainly the Eberron series now) and playing the video games. Much simplier that way. Well the other reason is that I never had anyone locally to get together with to play the table versions of the game. I might be buy the setting books (Eberron was the first I ever picked up and enjoyed reading it) but at times I do wish I could get into the settings more.

[Roy Focker]

Okay nerds. Occasionally we get you talking about roleplaying games. I'm guilty of collecting them but unlike you fat, pimple faced swine I take baths. We can have you stinking up the place in several topics. I made this a super topic so you can practice on how not to attract women. Why limit it just to D&D. Talk about any game except Exalted and Wushu. I'm sick of people praising both of them for every game setting.

[the white drew carey]

Ahhh... Once again Roy moderates in his super-happy vitriolic manner...

[Uxi]

The new subject title is pretty funny.

I pretend there are no other RPG's than WEG's old D6 SWRPG. Well that and Traveller: The New Era with GDW's d20 system, maybe.

[the white drew carey]

Ahhh... I remember when we took my friend's sister's Mall Madness board game and adapted it into a tabletop war game... while still utilizing the cards and that creepy voice thing it had. "Sale at the shoe store!"

[VF-19]

The new subject title is pretty funny.

I pretend there are no other RPG's than WEG's old D6 SWRPG. Well that and Traveller: The New Era with GDW's d20 system, maybe.

I know the title is funny. I used to live in my parents basement... But then I got my own place... To live in my own basement!

But seriously...

I was at the fanexpo in Toronto on Aug 24-26, and one very disgruntled fan, who was carrying a couple of trays, said: "I came here to run my tournament, not bus tables!" The thing is, there was more tables in the tournament area, than in the food court... And no signs that said mentioned anything about not eating in the tournament area. It was pretty funny to me (I was just sitting down resting for a moment)...

I don't see the need to fix the old Dungeons and Dragons rules... It's like what they did to mechwarrior...

Edited September 4, 2007 by VF-19

[CoryHolmes]

Is it wrong for me to openly admit that I like RIFTS?

[Roy Focker]

A couple of years ago yes.

[lord_breetai]

Is it wrong for me to openly admit that I like RIFTS?

I don't think so Rifts is a Brilliant setting with an excellent story.

The only problem is Palladium's mechanics are a little wonky.

Still I like playing it now and again, but I'm not much of an RPer these days.

Anyway I used to play magic but since I never played tournaments I didn't worry about Type 1 or Type 2 decks and what was legal and what was not.

I think Wizkids is a little saner for that with Heroclix... a little...

[1st Border Red Devil]

::Drags himself in from a long weekend::

Hmm....mods having a sense of humour. Cute.

Anyway, just crawled back home from DragonCon. Only managed to get in 2 gaming sessions (Blackmoor, naturally) this year due to getting food poisoning on the way up to Atlanta. Go me! Managed to pick up a copy of Changeling: the Lost from the White Wolf booth (DragonCon being their home convention) as well as some Blackmoor goodies: Temple of the Frog (now I have all 3 versions to date), Clock and Steam (new Inventor base class looks interesting) and The Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor (which reads different from my previous copy in Dave Arneson's First Fantasy Campaign).

Changeling is DEFINITELY an interesting concept this time around. Gone is the child-like happy go-lucky version of The World of Darkness No more art with bears in top hats holding balloons. Nope, this time the True Fae are back where they're supposed to be. ...beautiful and terrible. The funniest aspect, to me, is that the core city for Changeling this time is Miami.

Ah well...time to crawl back in bed. I need a vacation to recover from my vacation......