37th Long-Distance Colonization Fleet?

[Mr March]

So, I'm working on profiles for both the Megaroad-01 (new COLOR picture in the next update!) and the New Macross Class ships (gonna be schweeet!). Then it hits me:

There were 13 ships of the Megaroad Class constructed

There were 13 ships of the New Macross Class constructed

So where, when and what were these other 11 colonization fleets?

[mikeszekely]

Well, with Frontier coming out, and with another class of colony vessel, perhaps there's a fourth class that's gone unmentioned that was in service between the Megaroad and New Macross launches.

Or, the information is flawed. Yeah, I know the Macross Compendium lists 13 and 13, but where did Egan get that info from? Even if it's from an official source, there's always the possibility that the source is still in error. Unless another canon show/movie/OVA retcons it, the narrator tells us plainly on screen that the Macross 7 fleet was launched in 2037, and was the 37th such mission.

BTW, the Compendium also lists the first New Macross as launching in 2030, and in the Megaroad entry it states that one or two were constructed per year and that they were launched routinely. If we assume that they kept building and launching Megaroads until they replaced them with the New Macross, then we'd have between 18 and 36 Megaroads. If the 7th New Macross fleet was the 37th colony fleet, one could expect 30 Megaroad fleets.

Or, using the same info, even allowing for only one Megaroad launch per year, we'd only get to a maximum of 2025; since two were sometimes built, it's likely that all 13 were launched well before then (perhaps as early as 2018). It seems unlikely that the UN would stop launching colony fleets, only to resume again later. Another unknown class launched from the early 2020's to 2030 at the same rate as the Megaroads would easily fill the missing 17 fleets (Yes, 17. Macross 7 was the 37; I'd assume 8-13 would come after, and 37 - 7 New Macross fleets - 13 Megaroads = 17)

Finally, although less related to how Macross 7 could be the 37th colony fleet, are we sure that there were only 13 New Macross ships total, or merely 13 by VF-X2, which until Frontier was announced was as far as the timeline went? Perhaps more were built in the 2050's.

Also, does 13 refer to the battle sections, the colony sections, or both?

Edited August 24, 2007 by mikeszekely

[Keith]

Though it only lists 13 Megaroad fleets, the fact that 1-2 fleets are launched per year, we can assume that at least 30 Megaroad's actually launched. With the first of the New Macross Class launching in 2030, and those fleets being significantly larger, production moved down to 1 every year or so, leaving the 7 fleet to be the 37th long distance colony fleet to launch in 2038. The New Macross 8-13 doesn't factor into the 37, as they were not completed or launched yet.

Edited August 24, 2007 by Keith

[Roy Focker]

Well it is possible that the other colonization fleets didn't include a Megaroad or New Macross ships.

[azrael]

Well it is possible that the other colonization fleets didn't include a Megaroad or New Macross ships.

It's always possible.

One thing to note is that the Compendium only lists relevant facts and info. We don't need to know something if the impact of it has no significance. Does history need to know how and when Focker's VF-1S was given to Hikaru in terms of the big picture? No. All history needs to know is that Hikrau was in the war from start to finish. Do we need to know about the adventures of every colonial fleet? No, just the ones that impact the story the most.

In terms of writing, it's always been noted that Macross is "a work in progress". Don't expect Kawamori to flesh out all the details because he hasn't written all the details down, and for that matter, he's not going to. Why should he limit himself by spelling out every minor detail of the world he created?

[Knight26]

There is also the thought that the Megaroads may have come back to earth after establishing their colonies, no one ever said that they were one way trips for the big ships.

[MjrMisaHayase]

There is also the thought that the Megaroads may have come back to earth after establishing their colonies, no one ever said that they were one way trips for the big ships.

Is that true?

[Mr March]

All really good answers. I kinda like mikeszekely/keith's answers for simplicity. One or two Megaroads up to 30 and then the New Macross Class ships up to 7. But Roy and Knight26 responses makes for some good argument. It's possible a lot of the Zentradi ships could be modified for carrying colonists. Many of those ships are much larger than the SDF-1 Macross and other such vessels. Multiple trips sounds good too. Like an interstellar railway

[Keith]

I'm pretty sure the Megaroads were designed for one way trips. Assumedly they would contain of the necessary materials to set up camp so to speak, so it wouldn't make much sense to send them back. It's for this same reason that it's doubtful that colony fleets would have been sent out without Megaroads. Going by FB 2012 at least, it looks like Zentradi ships were sent out on support roles.

It would have been cool to see a Megaroads remnant in Macross Plus on Eden, alhtough to be fair, I never looked to close at the wide panoramic shots, so it may actually be there.

[Nied]

I always thought the Quitra Queleual LST would make a good supplementary (or even primary) colonization ship. A landing ship wouldn't be of much use as a fleet escort, but they've got plenty of internal space to use for colonists and supplies. I could see a flotilla of them being sent out with a couple of Zent cruisers and Human carriers for support being a splendid little colonization fleet.

[Sorata]

Well it is possible that the other colonization fleets didn't include a Megaroad or New Macross ships.

I thought Uraga Class Escort Battle Carriers were also used to head fleets such as patrol and colonization fleets 9they can connect to coloniaztion ships after all) as well as Zentraedi capital ships such as the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs-Class were used that way too. Cant remember where I read it though.

Also the New Macross class and the colony shells could be reused as the shell wouldnt be needed at a new colony once it is established and the Macross wouldnt be needed as the colony could beuid its own using its own resources or wouldnt need it or the fleets total compliment of vessels once trade routes and patrol routes are established by UN Spacy and everyone gets a copy of the colonys fold coordinates (doubt once the colony is up and running they need an orbital casino, factory, agriculture and research ships that is part of fleets too since that can be planet bound by the new colony.)

Edited August 24, 2007 by Sorata

[Mr March]

I always thought the Quitra Queleual LST would make a good supplementary (or even primary) colonization ship. A landing ship wouldn't be of much use as a fleet escort, but they've got plenty of internal space to use for colonists and supplies. I could see a flotilla of them being sent out with a couple of Zent cruisers and Human carriers for support being a splendid little colonization fleet.

Yes, I've thought this may have been a possibility as well. You can also fit a lot more humans onboard a Zentradi ship

[Mr March]

I thought Uraga Class Escort Battle Carriers were also used to head fleets such as patrol and colonization fleets (they can connect to colonization ships after all) as well as Zentraedi capital ships such as the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs-Class were used that way too. Cant remember where I read it though.

The Macross Compendium makes mention that Uraga Class Escort Battle Carriers command small fleets. This information is also repeated in my own entry on the Macross Mecha Manual:

Uraga CLass Escort Battle Carrier

[Zinjo]

I'm pretty sure the Megaroads were designed for one way trips. Assumedly they would contain of the necessary materials to set up camp so to speak, so it wouldn't make much sense to send them back. It's for this same reason that it's doubtful that colony fleets would have been sent out without Megaroads. Going

I agree with Keith, in that if you look closely at the Megaroads and City Class ships they were essentially domed cities flying around in space. Once they found a habitable planet they'd become the first city from which other communities would spring from. However it isn't clear whether Eden was discovered by Megaroad 01 or another smaller scouting fleet, because Megaroad 02 & 03 were launched after Eden was discovered in 2014, possibly it was found by a Zentreadi fleet that departed at or around the same time as the Megaroad 01 fleet.

It is also possible that the Megaroad fleet was the first of it's type of fleet, but not the first effort made to seek out habitable worlds in the galaxy. As critical as the colonization of the stars would be with a fear of retaliation by other Zentreadi fleets, it is possible that existing Zentreadi groups were sent out to look before the Megaroad was completed.

It would support Neid's speculations about Zentreadi ships being used for colonial exploration

I always thought the Quitra Queleual LST would make a good supplementary (or even primary) colonization ship. A landing ship wouldn't be of much use as a fleet escort, but they've got plenty of internal space to use for colonists and supplies. I could see a flotilla of them being sent out with a couple of Zent cruisers and Human carriers for support being a splendid little colonization fleet.

They used a similar premise for the rebuilding of Earth for Mac 2.

Now the new fleets all appear to me to be designed to land in the water and float, which seems to be a common theme in anime, that capital ships would land in the water as opposed to land based space ports. This is alluded to in Mac Plus with the space liner and if you look at them, all the fleet ships with the exception of the ARMD carriers appear to be designed to float, including the Battle class ships.

From a colonization point of view it makes sense to have the fleet land in the water and be used like island bases from which land based communities and installations could be built. Eventually all the materials from these ships would be recycled into building materials for settlements all over the colony and / or allowed to remain as man made islands on which to build new installations.

Edited August 25, 2007 by Zinjo

[sketchley]

I remember reading somewhere (not sure if it's canon or otherwise) that civilian colony fleets were disassembled, and their parts used to build the colony.

In terms of colonization missions, one must remember one small line in the timeline in the compendium (I'll let you guys find it). The meaning of it is quite big. In effect, there are (were?) two types of colonization mission: short range and long range. The dividing line is 100 light years from Earth. The Megaroad and New Macross Fleets are the long range type. The short range, well, given that they only went out 100 light years, I doubt that they had any big ships, and probably used ships only as bus-like transports (Embatron Transport anyone?)

Eden was colonized by one (or more likely, a bunch) of these short-range colonization missions.

Therefore, the big colony ships and fleets weren't involved in its creation. Of course, it doesn't mean that the big colony ships can't stop there and pick up supplies/colonists, take a month of R&R, etc..

In my research on Eden, I've come up with the following:

11.7 light years: Groombridge 1816 (Helios) Star System

Eden

• An inhabitable planet discovered in 2013, November. Colonization begins immediately.
• Humankind's first colonized planet.
• UN Colony
• New Edwards Test Flight Centre, a weapons testing center under direct military jurisdiction, is established in 2020.

Eden 3

• 90% water. A beautiful planet with similar (astronomical/geological?) conditions as Earth.
• 2042 Study began to determine if the planet is suitable for colonization.
• 2045 Study of the environment begins.
• 2050 Determined that people can live on planet except for one area. Colonization begins.
• 2050.12.01 - Special Forces VF-X squad fight and defeat Vinderance at a base on planet.

[Mr March]

Now the new fleets all appear to me to be designed to land in the water and float, which seems to be a common theme in anime, that capital ships would land in the water as opposed to land based space ports. This is alluded to in Mac Plus with the space liner and if you look at them, all the fleet ships with the exception of the ARMD carriers appear to be designed to float, including the Battle class ships.

From a colonization point of view it makes sense to have the fleet land in the water and be used like island bases from which land based communities and installations could be built. Eventually all the materials from these ships would be recycled into building materials for settlements all over the colony and / or allowed to remain as man made islands on which to build new installations.

Now that I've considered, it makes sense that the Megaroad and City ships would become the first major center of any colony and would thus be designed as one-way-only vessels. This is especially helpful to suspend our disbelief that many of these early colonies grew so fast so quickly. If each colony started with a major urban center that would give them a huge economic and industrial base to grow very quickly especially with a large population like 100,000+. Such colonies would grow much faster than a few hundred people dumped on some planet in a tiny installation

[Valkyrie addict]

hmmm...interesting, I know this is a long shot, but is there any kind of galaxy map (whatever) that could show all the places that the UN has explored and planets they've populated

as far as I know, only habitable places found were Eden, err...that place with elfs and space whales and err... Reux? were the Macross 5 and 7 fleet were attacked by the PD

[Zinjo]

hmmm...interesting, I know this is a long shot, but is there any kind of galaxy map (whatever) that could show all the places that the UN has explored and planets they've populated

as far as I know, only habitable places found were Eden, err...that place with elfs and space whales and err... Reux? were the Macross 5 and 7 fleet were attacked by the PD

Based on what is known from all the shows, games and compendium, here is my list, however I'm sure others may add a few:

Eden

Eden 3

Avemaria

Hydra

Salvation

Delta

Cristiana

Neo York

New Asia

Dahan

Belfan

Susia

Iota

Lux (Rax)

Varuata

Zolan

Unamed Ice Planet colony from "Galaxy is Calling Me"

Edited August 25, 2007 by Zinjo

[Valkyrie addict]

oh yeah....I forgot, we must remove Planet Lux... cause it got destroyed by that evangelion looking purple PD that merged with that one eyed dude

the list counts 8... so, this means there are other 20 something fleets just roaming the galaxy?

since we're on the subject of colonies, remember the VF-19P that Basara stole, what was so special about it?

[Zinjo]

oh yeah....I forgot, we must remove Planet Lux... cause it got destroyed by that evangelion looking purple PD that merged with that one eyed dude

the list counts 8... so, this means there are other 20 something fleets just roaming the galaxy?

since we're on the subject of colonies, remember the VF-19P that Basara stole, what was so special about it?

It had sound boosters built into the fighter itself (a VF-19K). They were pillars found on the shoulders, much more believable than the speakers from the series IMO, although it would have made better sense to incorporate them into the shoulders like the VF-19 Fire Excaliber, but as it is they are they appear to be bolt on units.

Edited August 25, 2007 by Zinjo

[Valkyrie addict]

hehe, thanks for the quick reply Zinjo

also found more detail info here if anyone else is interested

[sketchley]

For a Macross related game, I've created a map of sorts. It's been filled in with real stellar objects and a few creations for the game, so I'm not directly linking to it. I am giving the link for the Sol system. It's as complete as I've been able to make it, and there have been no additions from the game.

http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/Locations/Earth.htm (there's not much mentioned in Macross beyond Jupiter except for the ruins of South Ataria.)

Re: VF-19P

In addition to the built in spritia sound warfare speakers Zinjo mentioned, the VF-19 is a low-budget version of the UN Spacy VF-19. It doesn't have room for weapons pallets in weapons bays in the engine nacelles. In their stead, it does have a two-port dog-fight missile launcher.

Edited August 26, 2007 by sketchley

[Morpheus]

The colony in "the galaxy is calling me" is very small, it is likely created with a smaller colony fleet. Interesting, this colony didn't even have a defense force on its own.

[Valkyrie addict]

they were illegal colonist...since they were mexicans *joke*