YF-19 (VF-19) Vs. YF-21 (VF-21)

[Gubaba]

Bolt, I'm just amazed you could figure out what renorzeta was saying... Care to translate for the rest of us, please?

[Bolt]

Haha! I'm semi bilingual , after a while you learn to read between the lines & fill the blanks/ rearrange the whole sentence.😉

But I was mostly responding to all the lengthy explanations everyone has put forth mate😊

gubaba I'm surprised you couldn't grok brother Renorzeta's post😄

Edited August 26, 2015 by Bolt

[Gubaba]

Haha! I'm semi bilingual , after a while you learn to read between the lines & fill the blanks/ rearrange the whole sentence.

But I was mostly responding to all the lengthy explanations everyone has put forth mate

gubaba I'm surprised you couldn't grok brother Renorzeta's post

I am only an egg...

[seti88]

you can shout yahoo in a 19 but try doing that in a 21 with ur thumbs pressed together....you probably go into a tailspin!

on the other hand you can probably eat a sandwich in the 21 while flying whilst in the 19 u gotta have both hands on the joystick...

sorry, channelling some isamu logic ..*wakes up*

[Valkyrie Driver]

Buddy , FSW is do , while u had less wing span but u still had same maneuverable as a SW design , but disadvantage of FSW is to flow is come from outside to center of super structure it's cause Aileron had less effective than normal SW that wind go from inside to outside but to so the tip of wing has higher effective when turning or pitch it's made drag forward to the front make it pitch more angle in less time than SW design when to drag from SW is also high in just mid-to-rear of the plane Canard is need to made it more maneuverable , but do to lack of stong material the super structure and wing structure is need more than SW design to stand again wind at high speed but if u have strong enough material it's not a concern the concern is how we manufacture such a material . the SU-47 and X-29 is a Tech Demo of FSW in need to a challenger from both side US and Russia in Flight Technology but because of FSW has a small amount of Experience and Computer support design and knowledge it's hardly to make it's good Performance while SW design is R&D from a long time since 1945 but FSW had very little model and R&D , but currently all our jet is commonly SW design because we want it's speed to go faster when we doesn't had a strong enough material but when we had composite material than strong enough and easily to manufacturing and much more precise than currently FSW will get in and get more advance than it's had , but in space it's nothing to do with it. i say : in macross there even have a Thermonuclear Reactor and even Fold when we is just not even had real Prototype that can produce enough energy and we not even had a space frigate nor Probes that can survey around our solar system .

What? I'm sorry, I'm going to have to be a dick. I could not understand what you were trying to say. I'm going to guess that English is not your first language, as this was a painful read.

i think YF,VF-19 is bit better

it's high maneuverable more Thrust/weight ratio and better pilot protection since it's get in side structure and YF-21 VF-22 is still in front of the cockpit position like old design (since VF-0 to vf-11)

YF-21 VF-22 had more Payload and it's better in stealth but do to stealth design is need the power/weight ratio and Maneuverable is sacrifice both YF-21 and YF-19 have active stealth .

VF-19 had better G assist than YF-21 just a little bit but better

YF-21 VF-22 resemble to Zentradi Meltradi Q-Rau do to main engine is still in the Rear of the battroid mode it's prove that it's much more ability to perform better than VF-19 YF-19

Guld Bowmen is in YF-21 for so long since Project start when YF-19 had kindly change 4 test pilot before Isamu Dyson but when Isamu came up in short time he's lead in Super Nova Project.

but the rebalance is need to allow mid skill pilot to operate then it's come up with VF-19F with less engine power and VF-19S with such superior and were introduced with Emerald Force .

at first sight i think YF-21 and VF-22 is resemble to F-22 and YF-23 it's look familiar and cool . but in macross Frontier it's clearly the Un Spacy using VF-171 Nightmare plus do to spec decrease and more cost efficient the VF-19 is the main Fighter of SMS while the L.A.I introduce VF-25 for their SMS . it's clearly VF-19 is use much more than VF-22.

Again, what? What was your point here?

I love this thread. I get to learn much more about both of these great fighters.

I've always loved both the yf-19 & yf-21 from M+

My lasting, personal favorite is the -19. I won't bother trying to justify it with a technical explanation. You all have done that plenty on both sides of the fence!

I will say the -21/22 is an amazing fighter & I love the Q-rau look in battroid mode.

And I would love to see more of these fighters in action!

I'm in agreement. Mostly.

I'm going to have to disagree with David though, about the YF-19's stability. The close coupling of the wings to where the engines are does indicate that it would be more stable, however, I don't believe that the wings placement is the sole factor in this case, as the rest of the fighter is shaped to provide lift (or supposed to be). The fuselage has it's own camber, and the aircraft has chines along the forebody before we see them integrate into the root extensions, essentially acting like strakes or LERX, which create vortexes that keep air flow over the wing constant at higher angles of attack (like the F-16 and F-18). We also see a blended body design very similar to many later 4th gen and 5th gen jet fighters. I want to say that the wing placement is deceptive in determining the center of lift, because of the other lifting surfaces the fighter has built into the design. In fact, the wing surface on the YF-19 (and early model VF-19's like the A/B/C/D models) is actually rather small, leading me to believe that much like the F-14, the fuselage is generating a larger percentage of the lift. meaning the center of lift would be further forward than the wings would make it appear.

I'm not an aeronautical engineer, so I could be way off, but that's the way it seems to me. And would explain why so many pilots found the 19 hard to control. Now, the later model VF-19's (the E/F/S/P, and the Caliburn Monkey models) have more wing area, due to a reshaped wing and wing root (extending the trailing edge further to the rear, and filling in some of the negative spaces in the wing shape). This would give them superior lift off the wing compared to the earlier models. My guess is that the 19 series used ruddervators and flaperons, assisted by the thrust vectoring for control surfaces, due to the large amount of lift generated by the design, would make for huge ground effect and need flaps to lower the landing speed to shorten the landing distance, by lowering the speed by using flaps you decrease the tendency for the aircraft to float.

The YF-21/VF-22 is very apparently unstable, with the wings being far forward on the blended body and very discernible camber across the top it's pretty evident that it's unstable. It's conventional aeronautic design is a plus, as construction techniques are familiar. Some of the Gimmicks the 21 offered were interesting, but I don't believe that those would have made it into a follow on production fighter immediately. The fact that we've not seen any evidence of those systems anywhere else as of 2059-2060 indicates that that was considered, interesting but unnecessary, kind of like the Active Aeroelastic Wing (which hasn't been implemented into a prototype design yet, that we know of).

The graphs we saw in plus, I think were telling more about the pilots than the aircraft. The specs were similar, Though looking at Macross Mecha Manual, the 19's performance was overall better, with higher thrust rated engines, and less weight to begin with, as well as higher g-limits it was better, and Isamu was able to make more out of those specs than Guld could out of the 21's. Now, the 19 was notoriously uncontrollable, which means fewer pilots could handle it, which from a military standpoint, is not good. The production fighters evened this out tremendously, so it was less of an issue.

I'm a huge fan of the 19. I have more of it in my toy collection than any other (Hi-Metal VF-19S, Yamato YF-19 1/60, Yamato VF-19F, Bandai VF-19Adv) and the first master file book I have bought was the VF-19 book. Just goes to show how much I love the 19. It's look is sleek and sexy and the technical specs are wonderful, If given a choice between the 19 and anything else, I'd take the 19 hands down.

That said, I think the 21/22 is a better fighter. The 19's internal bays offered it more versatility compared to the 21's fixed armaments, (rectified in the VF-22 I believe), but the fact that the 21's performance was a bit more rounded, and the fact that the 22 fixed some of the problems with the internal armaments, I give my edge to the VF-22. More pilots would be able to control it, without sacrificing performance, and since the 22 (and one of the 21 prototypes) did away with the BDI/BCS made it more accessible to pilots.

All the sexiness in the world isn't worth squat if people can't fly it, and in my mind is doesn't have to be pretty to get the job done. the Look Cool Factor goes to the 19, but the operational usability and function go to the 22.

There are 2 very different philosophies at work, the VF-22 is a very American approach to design, while the VF-19 is a very Japanese approach. The 19 requires that samurai concept of Jinba Ittai (something you see a lot in Japanese automotive design, and other Mecha anime, I'm looking at you Muv-Luv...), the union of rider and horse, to be useful, something very few people will be able to achieve (If you think about it, Dyson was only able to do it, because he genuinely loved flying, and loved aircraft. He was the perfect man for the job). Also, from a technical perspective, the VF-22 is bigger than the VF-19, even if only slightly, meaning maintenance should be easier.

That's my take, though.