isamu Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 Hi guys. Y'know, after watching Mac 7 all the way through again recently. I was beginning to question whether the original TV series is really better. I honestly think macross 7 is slightly the more entertaining series to watch. Once you get past the cornyness and the cheese, there is so much going in the animation and story. The last half of Mac 7 just has that power that draws you into the characters. Not to mention the Valkarie dogfights to me, are more frequent and better choreographed than SDF: Macross. And the villians are more diverse. Instead of nonstop walking giants, we're greeted with all kinds of different baddies with different personalities. Don't get me wrong I still love the original, I just think 7 is more entertaining for some reason. I'm too tired to elaborate further but Im sure you get the picture. Quote
Graham Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 I love both series, but as I've admitted many times before, of the two I do prefer Macross 7. Graham Quote
Druna Skass Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 I liked the character personalities in the orginal better. Just overall I like the characters in the original better and the original didn't have Basara. In my opinion the Macross 7 (the ship) ain't got sh!t on the SDF-1. I don't know why but I just couldn't really get into 7 until Operation Stargazer. On the other hand I really liked the Varauta VFs, especialy the Fz-109F. I've yet to see a mech that I felt looks as scary/intimidating as the Varuta units. Quote
Uxi Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 (edited) M7 IS a better series, for reasons that have been stated. And it has almost every valkyrie to ever see time on the screen in any Macross (except maybe the VF-4... the VF-0 and SV-51 didn't yet exist in Real Life). And I think the plot is pretty cool and agreed, greater than the simply the Zentraedi. I like the shifts in strategy as we finally find out what the Protodevlin are after. Great story there. And character development particularly in Gamlin (starting out as rookie in Diamond Force to the leader). Edited October 17, 2003 by Uxi Quote
LePoseur Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 Hmm, hard to say.... I go back and forth on which I like better, so I guess it depends on my mood. SDF has the whole nostalgia thing going for it, but 7 leave it in the dust as far as how it makes me feel. I don't know, kind of like asking a father who he prefers, his wife or his kid. So I'll have to say I love 'em both the same, but in different ways. Quote
Radd Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 I would disagree about the dogfights. The battle animation in Macross 7 is more consistant, but it's very simple and rather bland, while most of the SDF Macross animation is pretty crappy, there are sequences that are just amazing, such as Max and Millia's dogfight sequences. On the other hand, I do agree that I find myself watching my Macross 7 DVDs far more than my beloved AnimEigo SDF Macross DVDs. One thing that bothers me about the original series is that the character developement is rather forced and awkward through much of the series. People say that you need to watch the series to get the development that's lacking in "Do You Remember Love?", but I'd argue that while the story is far more compressed, the actual developement of Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay is much better written and presented than what we get in the tv series. Meanwhile, Macross 7 is all about the character developement. There's tons of it, coming from all of the major characters. Ray, Basara, Mylene, Gamlin, Veffidas, Max, Millia, Gigil, Sivil, Gepelnitch, everyone just has wonderfully well written, and realistic character developement going on. I think the split in opinions, and witnessing a lot of people's opinions change from repulsed to complete adoration only serves to prove just how realistic the story and character development of the show actually is. Gamlin, Gigil, and company didn't start singing Planet Dance from the first episode on, after all. Pretty much all of the characters in the show had reactions very similar to a lot of people that love and hate the show. Plus it helps that I adore a lot of the ship and mecha designs from the show. While I'm not a huge fan of the Fire Bomber custom Valkyries myself, I would be ecstatic if Yamato managed to get a Macross 7 license and produced a large Battle 7 toy in scale with the rumoured SDF-1 Macross toy they'll hopefully be bringing us. Quote
Father Jack Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 I like both of them immensely. However I do have to say I like the original the best. Most of this comes from the drama involved I think. I mean you get to watch Hikaru mature from a guy who joined the military to impress a girl, into a serious adult, Also there is the ill fated love affair between Roy and Claudia. The scene where he dies in her quarters wanting to see her one last time before he dies always brings a tear to my eye. However I love Mac 7 as well. When Basara sings Try Again in the final episode it gives me goosebumps. The first time I saw that I had the volume on the TV cranked up all the way, and I was almost cheering I thought it was so good. That is the reason I love both of them though, The melodrama and the way Music helps to end the war in both series...it's just beutiful. Quote
Effect Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 While I do enjoy both series I have to agree that Macross 7 is more entertaining and the better of the two. Reasons have been listed above so there isn't a reason for me to type them out again. I will admit I dislike 7 when I only saw a few episodes but after buying the boxset that include the ova, movie, and encore episodes I have to say that I love the series which makes me a bigger Macross fan then I thought possible. I only wish I had gotten in to Macross 7 sooner. Even Basara's singing stopped being a pain once his character started to develop but if I hear Planet Dance again it will be to far to soon. Quote
ewilen Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 (Picks jaw up off the floor.) (Resolves to keep watching M7.) At episode 6 now. Must...endure...ridiculous...plot... Quote
Keith Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 You guys are just frakking with me right? Trying to mess with my head by praising Macross 7! Suffice it to say, I'm an the early major 7 fans (at least as early as U.S. fandom goes), and do enjoy the story more than the original (mind you I really love the original series too). I still remember ordering the first 6 tapes of the fansub back in 97-98 (isn't it sad that I can't remember what year anymore?) and only intending to watch a couple episodes that day. Suffice it to say I ditched whatever college homework I had, and wound up watching as many episodes as I could before I crashed, finished the rest I had the next day, as well as sending out for the rest of the series (which was a grueling 2 week wait!). Immeidately I loved Basara's character, loved the music, and was fully engrossed in the story. To this day I still try to fit in a viewing of 7 once or twice a year with my regular anme viewing. Just such an awesome story. I'd personally love to see a metalic red VF-19 Kai, and a whale blood red VF-19P from Yamato. Quote
Gubaba Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 I've gone from desperately WANTING to like M7 to genuinely having affection for it, and it only took me seven years! I still don't like it as much as the original (I think it would have been improved by cutting it down by about 13 episodes, and by treating the Protodeviln more seriously...especially Zomd and Goram), but I think it has some interesting twists on the original plot. Quote
dna Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 (edited) Here - let me do it first: (agent one!)AH!!! YOU GUYS ARE ALL HOMOS!!!(/agent one!) I find Mac 7 more entertaining to watch than SDF. All the problems that Mac 7 has are (almost) all present in SDF as well, and nobody ever beats that too much. Basically, I think Mac 7 just needed more money thrown at it. Edited October 17, 2003 by dna Quote
mikeszekely Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 You guys are just frakking with me right? Trying to mess with my head by praising Macross 7!Suffice it to say, I'm an the early major 7 fans (at least as early as U.S. fandom goes), and do enjoy the story more than the original (mind you I really love the original series too). I still remember ordering the first 6 tapes of the fansub back in 97-98 (isn't it sad that I can't remember what year anymore?) and only intending to watch a couple episodes that day. Suffice it to say I ditched whatever college homework I had, and wound up watching as many episodes as I could before I crashed, finished the rest I had the next day, as well as sending out for the rest of the series (which was a grueling 2 week wait!). Immeidately I loved Basara's character, loved the music, and was fully engrossed in the story. To this day I still try to fit in a viewing of 7 once or twice a year with my regular anme viewing. Just such an awesome story. I'd personally love to see a metalic red VF-19 Kai, and a whale blood red VF-19P from Yamato. I'm with Keith. I remember getting like half of the series, and the then guy I bought my fansubs from quit... fortunately, the owner of my local anime store is a huge Macross fan, and he copied the rest for me from his fansubs. For those that have really watched Macross 7 to the very end, it's hard not to like the characters. Even the annoying ones like Basara are kind of likeable in a way. Spiritia aside, Macross 7 is probably the best character story in the Macross universe, and if pressed, I'm more likely to watch Macross 7 again than SDF Macross. But if no one's going to push me, I refuse to pick one! The only place I disagree with Keith on is Basara's VF-19. I don't care how gaudy a mecha's paint job is, it's okay by me until you put a face on it. Once you put a face on it, you've crossed a line for me. The VF-19P is my favorite of the VF-19's, but I hate Fire Valkyrie, and I pretty much hate all of the Sound Force valkyries. I think the Jamming Birds' VF-11s are the way to go if you want a valkyrie for singing at aliens in. Quote
Abombz!! Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 I would've liked Macross 7 so much better if they had killed Mylene the first time she got on a VF. <_ Quote
dna Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 I would've liked Macross 7 so much better if they had killed Mylene the first time she got on a VF. Why's that? She turned out to be not too shabby of a pilot. Certainly better than all those CF VF-11s Quote
Agent ONE Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 Here - let me do it first:(agent one!)AH!!! YOU GUYS ARE ALL HOMOS!!!(/agent one!) ... Oh come on now... M7 has SOME merit... not enough to make it worth watching though. This thread is like comparing the act of sex to having your cock removed with a butter knife. CROM laughs at your girly-man show! Quote
Abombz!! Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 I would've liked Macross 7 so much better if they had killed Mylene the first time she got on a VF. Why's that? She turned out to be not too shabby of a pilot. Certainly better than all those CF VF-11s Because she was extremely annoying.... and gave herself too much credit. I hate secondary characters who think they are as good as the main character, and that was the case with Mylene. <_< Quote
Agent ONE Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 (Picks jaw up off the floor.)(Resolves to keep watching M7.) At episode 6 now. Must...endure...ridiculous...plot... Let me level with you man! It does get much better and you DO end up seeing what Basara is trying to do with his music as a means of reaching the unreachable enemy. Imagine a porno with Elton John and Boy George... it would be the most horroble thing you have ever seen... you would want to burn your eyes out with a blow torch. Then imagine they were both singing a Beastie Boy song while Yanni was playing the piano... You would want to poke your ears out with a broad sword... Then at the end of the porno they all got togeather and rescued a kitten out of a tree. The fact that the kitten was saved was nice and all, but the rest of the show, as I said before about M7, will bunr your soul. Finish M7 if you must but it may scar you perminantly. Quote
Edveen Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 (edited) I enjoyed the Original better. I agree with Father Jack and all his points he made. The story was just a little better and beleivable than Macross 7. Both were powerful though but I was lifted by the original a little more. I dont know the reason why I like it more. And I really dont want to reflect on it to find the answer in my inner self. haha. I was dissapointed by the poor animation in Macross7, its supposed to be more modern and all. But the second half was much better. Of course Macross had its horrid animation, but it was made up by the beautiful ones done by Studio Nue. Now those were classic 80's masterpieces. Ed Edited October 17, 2003 by Edveen Quote
dna Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 CROM laughs at your girly-man show! Crom: Look. This... is all a mistake. I'm just a compound interest program. I work at a savings and loan! I can't play these video games! Guard: Sure you can, pal. Look like a natural athlete if I ever saw one. Crom: Who, me? Are you kidding? No, I run out to check on T-bill rates, I get outta breath. Hey, look, you guys are gonna make my user, Mr. Henderson, very angry. He's a full-branch manager. Guard: Great. Another religious nut Crom can laugh all he wants, but he gets wiped in the end. Quote
Anubis Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 I still prefer the original. It kept me engrossed the whole series, and was more realistically portrayed. I enjoyed M7 a great deal, but it took a while to get anywhere. Starting with City 7 being stolen it got pretty good though, and got better as it progressed. Overall security getting into critical sections was rather weak it seemed though. <_< Mylene annoyed me in the end, and I never did like Basara, but it was still a good series. Basara wasn't as bad as Kaifun though. I'll never know how Hikaru allowed him to get on his plane to go to the Macross. Also, props to it for showcasing so many valks. I was pleasantly surprised to see the 3 old guys in the Monster, and Millia's 1J again. The show had originality at the very least. Quote
Radd Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 You guys are just frakking with me right? Trying to mess with my head by praising Macross 7!Suffice it to say, I'm an the early major 7 fans (at least as early as U.S. fandom goes), and do enjoy the story more than the original (mind you I really love the original series too). I still remember ordering the first 6 tapes of the fansub back in 97-98 (isn't it sad that I can't remember what year anymore?) and only intending to watch a couple episodes that day. Suffice it to say I ditched whatever college homework I had, and wound up watching as many episodes as I could before I crashed, finished the rest I had the next day, as well as sending out for the rest of the series (which was a grueling 2 week wait!). Immeidately I loved Basara's character, loved the music, and was fully engrossed in the story. To this day I still try to fit in a viewing of 7 once or twice a year with my regular anme viewing. Just such an awesome story. I'd personally love to see a metalic red VF-19 Kai, and a whale blood red VF-19P from Yamato. Heh, you should know there's always been a few people around here that love the show. I first saw it around 98 or 99, saw the first couple episodes and thought it was strange, but I still wanted to see more. I saw like 6-10 episodes in, on and off whenever I was over at my friend's who owned the fansubs. Missed most of the middle, but then saw Dynamite 7 and the end of the tv series (not certain what order I saw them in). Absolutely adored Dynamite 7 ever since, and still wanted to see the rest of the tv series (which I now have on DVD, so happy ending there). While not a big fan of the 19 Kai (then again, I don't immensly dislike it either), the VF-19P is a thing of beauty. I hope Bandai will stop sitting on that toy license and let Yamato put it to work for the fans! It's not like Bandai's making any money from it. That reminds me, we just finished Macross Plus at the last anime night we had around my place. I'll probably hold off on Macross 7 until I catch a few new people up with at least 'DYRL?' and Plus, then head into M7 with everyone. It'll be interesting to see how it takes. Sadly, most of them are young enough that they consider Evangelion to be oldschool anime. Quote
Agent ONE Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 CROM laughs at your girly-man show! Crom: Look. This... is all a mistake. I'm just a compound interest program. I work at a savings and loan! I can't play these video games! Guard: Sure you can, pal. Look like a natural athlete if I ever saw one. Crom: Who, me? Are you kidding? No, I run out to check on T-bill rates, I get outta breath. Hey, look, you guys are gonna make my user, Mr. Henderson, very angry. He's a full-branch manager. Guard: Great. Another religious nut Crom can laugh all he wants, but he gets wiped in the end. CROM is my god, and he lives in the Earth. When I die I will have to go before him, and he will ask me, "What is the riddle of steel?" And if I don't know it he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me.. Thats CROM, strong on his mountain! Quote
CAG Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 I prefer the original over 7 as well. Seven was too corny for me....and by quantifying the cultural effects into Spirita robbed it of some of the philosophical attributes I saw in the first. Someday I'll write that paper on Macross and Nietzsche......really I will........ Quote
isamu Posted October 18, 2003 Author Posted October 18, 2003 I would've liked Macross 7 so much better if they had killed Mylene the first time she got on a VF. That is so mean Mylene isn't annoying she's just young and full of vigor. Can't blame a 15 year old for wanting to think they're better than the group leader. She's just the cutest little character. I can't see how anyone would want to see her to get killed in her own valk If that would've really happened I don't think I would ever recover from getting choked up. Quote
LePoseur Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 I'm with Abombz! Mylene is the most annoying thing this side of Kaifun, but hell, Kaifun's a guy so I don't feel as bad about having violent urges towards him. I dislike whinny girls in real life and in my anime as well. Nagging eye-candy I can do without, give me a female lead that is hot and cool (and legal ) and then we can talk. Quote
isamu Posted October 18, 2003 Author Posted October 18, 2003 Maybe it's cuz Im a big Tomo Sakurai fan Quote
Keith Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 I'm sorry, but if Gundam can have Samurai masks, then the Sound Force Valkyries can have faces. What the hell is the big deal anyway? Lots of mecha have faces. And Mylene rocks damnit! Quote
azrael Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 You guys are just frakking with me right? Trying to mess with my head by praising Macross 7!Suffice it to say, I'm an the early major 7 fans (at least as early as U.S. fandom goes), and do enjoy the story more than the original (mind you I really love the original series too). I still remember ordering the first 6 tapes of the fansub back in 97-98 (isn't it sad that I can't remember what year anymore?) and only intending to watch a couple episodes that day. Suffice it to say I ditched whatever college homework I had, and wound up watching as many episodes as I could before I crashed, finished the rest I had the next day, as well as sending out for the rest of the series (which was a grueling 2 week wait!). Immeidately I loved Basara's character, loved the music, and was fully engrossed in the story. To this day I still try to fit in a viewing of 7 once or twice a year with my regular anme viewing. Just such an awesome story. Yes Keith, their just frakking with you. I remember getting the series, raw, back in '96-'97(?). Then I got the CDs and listened to "My Friends" and "Totsugeki Love Heart" for weeks.... Didn't understand a word but still watched it. I think it was about that time I found the Compendium (when Egan still hosted it on his UC Berkeley account) and used it as a guide to M7. I think about a year later I got the fansubs and more CDs. I listened to Fire Bomber songs for years. It was just stuck in my playlists. And I never got tired of it. The nice thing about M7 is that it helped me build my tolerance for long series. In fact, it was the first long series that I watched. And I never got bored watching it over and over. I think what struck me the most was it didn't feel like I was watching a Gundam-war story or like the original series (the original series was great, no doubt about it). It was different and I liked that about M7. Quote
Druna Skass Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 Oh come now, Mylene's just like any other 15 yr old girl these days, she's not that bad. What really got on my nerves about Basara though was that he had a habit of being arrogent around the UN Spacy people save for Max and Gamlin. That and every now and then he goes into jack-ass mode. I was actualy hopeing that he would get with Sivil at the end though. Quote
Effect Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 Oh come now, Mylene's just like any other 15 yr old girl these days, she's not that bad.What really got on my nerves about Basara though was that he had a habit of being arrogent around the UN Spacy people save for Max and Gamlin. That and every now and then he goes into jack-ass mode. I was actualy hopeing that he would get with Sivil at the end though. That was really my whole problem with Basara to be honest. The singing got annoying but that is dealable but he was so closed minded or at least appeared to be. He constantly gets upset that no one understands him or what he's doing but at the same time feels that the military is wrong no matter what nor does he even try to explain himself to even make people understand. Quote
Lightning Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 ...Also, props to it for showcasing so many valks. I was pleasantly surprised to see the 3 old guys in the Monster, and Millia's 1J again.... ahh yes....Millia's poor VF-1J....STUPID GAMLIN!!! I strained to get thru the first 12-13 episodes, but after that the show took off for me and i started liking it more and more as i went along. in the end though, i say i like both shows just as much. Quote
Abombz!! Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 I would've liked Macross 7 so much better if they had killed Mylene the first time she got on a VF. That is so mean Mylene isn't annoying she's just young and full of vigor. Can't blame a 15 year old for wanting to think they're better than the group leader. She's just the cutest little character. I can't see how anyone would want to see her to get killed in her own valk If that would've really happened I don't think I would ever recover from getting choked up. Seriously.... Macross 7 value would go through the roof if Mylene had been killed in the worst way possible. Maybe even the slow desintegration type death... now that would be a fitting end for whats quite possible the most annoying anime female to date. <_< Quote
LePoseur Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 (edited) While I do have some issues with Basara, I do understand his way of "shutting out" most anyone who doesn't "get" it. I mean, I guess I'd get tired of explaining and/or justfying myself all the time only to have the people I was talking to constantly misunderstand. Notice his change around Dr. Chiba when he understands that this crazy middle aged man might just get what he's all about. Compare that to how he treats those who what to change/adapt/edit or just flat out use him. All of the Macross series' have been consistant in playing up the blockheadedness/insanity of the UN Spacy. With that in mind, I'm not really surprised he treats them the way he does. ** and about Mylene, as long as she only opened her mouth to sing, I wouldn't mind her at all. Edited October 18, 2003 by LePoseur Quote
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