Macross 25th Anniversary and upcoming new TV series thread

[Aegis!]

First of all, I'd like to give thanks to Mr March for re-posting the scans.

What a way to celebrate my 1000th post , FINALLY I CAN POST MY THOUGHTS ON MACROSS F !

Anyway, here are my observations from what we've seen so far:

Mecha: As the Nº1 fan of the VF-5000 I absolutely approve the design of the VF-25. It's as if SK took every little detail that made previous valks great and then combined them into one valk. From the SV-51 forward fuselage, to the VF-0 wings, to the YF-19 frame and finally the overall VF-5000 silhouette. It's great to see they're honoring the old color schemes ( I see Yamato smiling already) too.

Having said all that, I still feel kinda disappointed that we're getting nothing really innovative from SK this time. Although the VF-25 shares many things with previous valks and improves upon them, I would've expected something different after a 25-30 year gap. It's also strange that we get to see just 2 valks, Kawamori usually likes to indulge us with plenty of models, hopefully we'll get more valks as the series progresses.

And what's with the lack of Destroids anyway ?

Character designs: I'm really glad they kept the overall feel from the early sketches, this kind of style really comes close to what I would've expected from mikimoto if he was still in charge, not the best we could've have but pretty damn close. It really has a mature and serious look to it that lacked in previous series. Still, it feels a bit too shoujo at times IMO, I guess I'll get used to it once we get to see it.

Plot: Although we don't know much yet, I get the feeling they're trying to go back to the original series in some aspects (likely to introduce a new generation to the whole Macross universe), for instance: we seem to have a Rookie-Senpai relationship going on here between the protagonist and the Grey-haired pilot guy.

This is a guess, but for some reason I'm thinking the plot is going to be closer to what is seen M7 ( don't panic yet) Trash MANGA (see? it's wasn't the evil anime counterpart), with the whole colony ships+idol+rookie training stuff.

Animation: OMG, I can't believe this is not an OVA!

I seriously hope they can keep this level of animation, although the first few sequences were a bit lacking in the detail department. What actually bothers me the most is the whole after-taste, I don't know why, but somehow it doesn't look/feel Macross-y to me, at least some parts. I reserve further judgement until I see the real thing.

Now, the REAL long waiting starts...

[Roy Focker]

I don't know if I'll like this one. I'll save my final opinion when I see the final product.

I just don't like cell mixed with cgi. The cell art always seems to be in slight duller colors when cgi is involved. I prefer bright and crisp cell art.

I don't like that modern character design. Not everyone can be Mikimoto. Plus and Zero had different designers but they didn't seem too far off. These designs either look to current or girl friendly? The trailer and plot sounds girl friendly to me. Plot also sounds a bit like Macross 7. I liked Macross 7 even though it wasn't as serious as some other Macross products. The best overall design were in the 1980s. All anime should look like DYRL?, Flash Back 2012, Zeta Gundam & Gun Buster. Macross F just looks too modern. True they want the current anime audience so they won't be changing back. On the plus side the toy line should still appeal to my generation.

[azrael]

azrael

I think it's a safe bet it's a just differences due to a CG conversion of the VF-17. Plus some styling differences like the cockpit and those wings (the rear wing edge looks different). Also, there are nose guns on this VF-17, they are just pushed back further, behind either side of the canopy rather than right beside.

Should have said the barrel is missing...For all we know, they could be A/B/C versions.

Given the documentation so far, it is most likely a student Valkyrie.

Given the simplicity of it's design, that's actually not a far fetched idea...but we need more info. It could also be akin to the VF-9; a cheap fighter. Guess we have to wait the next few months for more info. It might be me, but I see no internal weapons palettes on that thing. No signs of mini-missile port or anything. I can't see the sides of the legs too well, but I don't see anything. Only a gunpod, a small shield, and head lasers. Now that's not to say there aren't FAST packs...but it doesn't look like the VF-25 is well armed outside the gunpod. Everything appears to be an add-on.

[Black Valkyrie]

I don`t know what to say ...

From the trailer we have look a likes :

1- Hikaru.

2- Roy.

3- Misa.

4- Minmei.

5- Max.

Even the fight scene in city/colony are similar like SDFM.

[Mr March]

sketchly

Thanks for the translation!

Aegis

It was my pleasure

azrael

Oh yeah, the letter designations are very likely still going to happen. I like them. It's easy to distinguish them that way.

On a different note...

I posted some thoughts about CG animation on the MAHQ and I want to repeat those here. As most know, I love CG in anime, but I have my preferences. Yet ultimately, there are some growing pains going on and I think Macross Frontier will need to face some of those challenges.

In the strictest sense, the move from 2D to 3D has yet to capture the same stylistic artistry in the japanese animation itself. Line art in two dimensions - as seen in many anime styles - played so much with perspective and proportion to achieve dramatic effect (and I'm NOT talking about the more familiar "anime magic" fans talk about). The 2D artists could bend and skew and shape the form of a drawn mecha into whatever was needed in order to simulate low camera angles, fast zooms, depth of field, near passes and all kinds of highly dramatic and stylized effects. The result became very dramatic and very exciting to watch on an aesthetic level.

With 3D models, the japanese have yet to apply principles of aesthetic composition with the same skill they did in 2D. Some CG scenes and techniques seem to work better than others. But even using my personal favorite cell shaded 3D animation technique ala Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex or Yukikaze, the dramatic warping and aesthetic accomplishments are not equal to the older 2D productions. This is not to say 3D is inferior (as I know a lot of anti-CG fans are probably reading this and just waiting to jump on the bashing bandwagon), it just means it's different and will need to be used differently in order to achieve different aesthetic effects. The CG work of live action film director David Fincher comes to mind as an example of a creative talent who has a 3D aesthetic sense. I'd also say that Mamoru Oshii is one of the few anime creators that has a sense of 3D style and aesthetics, especially as seen in his Ghost in the Shell films.

I'm hopeful Macross Frontier will deliver some new art via CG in this way. I like what I see so far, but I'm hoping for better especially when it comes to scene composition.

Edited November 10, 2007 by Mr March

[Valkyrie addict]

W T F!!!???!!!

Edited November 10, 2007 by Valkyrie addict

[miriya]

W T F!!!???!!!

That looks like Roy Fokkers homosexual reincarnation. If that is the future of fashion.... I will just have to rebel. What is with all the scarves that these characters are wearing. Really tacky right?

[ruskiiVFaussie]

It's the MF chef!

[Graham]

Should have said the barrel is missing...For all we know, they could be A/B/C versions.

Given the simplicity of it's design, that's actually not a far fetched idea...but we need more info. It could also be akin to the VF-9; a cheap fighter. Guess we have to wait the next few months for more info. It might be me, but I see no internal weapons palettes on that thing. No signs of mini-missile port or anything. I can't see the sides of the legs too well, but I don't see anything. Only a gunpod, a small shield, and head lasers. Now that's not to say there aren't FAST packs...but it doesn't look like the VF-25 is well armed outside the gunpod. Everything appears to be an add-on.

I'm pretty certain the VF-25 has two hip-mounted guns, almost identical to the SV-51.

Graham

[NoSuchFile]

Is it just me or does the forward fuselage really seem like a SV-51?

[eugimon]

Is it just me or does the forward fuselage really seem like a SV-51?

yeah, it does. If you look the 25 is pretty much an amalgamation of every major valkyrie design since the VF-1. the fuselage resembles the sv-51, the canopy and wings are from the Vf-1, the feet look like the yf-21, the transformation sequence of the torso resembles the yf-19, the head resembles the vf-5000, on and on, there's references all over the design to previous valks.

[yellowlightman]

there's references all over the design to previous valks.

That or Kawamori was finally ran out of creativity.

Edited November 11, 2007 by yellowlightman

[eugimon]

That or Kawamori was finally ran out of creativity.

well, considering it's the 25th anniversary and the valk is termed the vf-25, maybe the it's purposeful. It's a pretty fraking obvious line to draw.

[lord_breetai]

I'm probably going to be tarred and feathered for saying this... but that last shot of the Valkyrie firing it's missiles... really reminds me of Shadow Chron.

Still this is much cooler then Shadow Chron (and I liked SC).

[Keith]

Correction, it looks like SC "should" have turned out, if HG actually had any money to put into it. I can't wait to watch this show, hell, I think I'll start badgering BV US now about licenisng...

Sure it'd be more expensive, but we'd get R2 quality DVD's (or blue ray or whatever), and since they're essentially the same as their Japanese parent company, they'd be the most likely company to be bold enough to take on the licensing B.S.

I hope they do include this trailer in with the 25th anniv DYRL set. Since they stuck it up on the internet around now, it would be silly not to include it with next months DVD's. I haven't been this excited about Macross in quite a while.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Keith

[DestroidDefender]

"Bugs Mr. Rico! Zillions of them!"

Okay I had to say that.

Still it looks very promising. The best of Macross 7 (colony fleet) Macross Plus (fighter jocks) and the original SDFM (love triangle, idol singer, etc).

Too bad HG will kill any chance of it getting seen by the mainstream North American audience.

Edited November 11, 2007 by DestroidDefender

[GGemini]

What appears to be an powered armor of some kind. (Human-sized, apparently.)

I also thought that it was an exo-skeleton of sorts, but look at the whole sequence again... it's a battroid. It shows how its controlled pretty much like we were shown how the YF-21 is controlled in Macross Plus vol. 1

Or take a look at this:

[sketchley]

I'm tending to favour GGemini's post. In addition, I'd like to add that no power armour was shown in the preview.

However, I've been withholding saying anything until now because the immediate preceeding production by Statlight, and their project commenced specifically to gain experience in making a Macross show, had power armours mounted in VFs.

[GGemini]

I checked the trailer again (and again... and again) and there is something that opens in the arm hmm...

Maybe it's a training device?

[kensei]

I checked the trailer again (and again... and again) and there is something that opens in the arm hmm...

Maybe it's a training device?

Or perhaps a new way of controlling the manipulators in Battroid and Gerwalk modes.

[Robojack]

Hey everyone, been a while since I've been back here, but since the announcement of Macross Frontier, I couldn't help myself to revisit this forum.

Anyways, if this series takes place 80 years after Macross 7, then why would VF-17s still be used? Unless I got the years wrong...but I'm a bit disappointed to see we're not getting any VF-22 or VF-19 love. Considering how popular they were in M+ and M7, they really should've given a better treatment than merely having their designs incorporated into the retro-looking (IMO) VF-25. Look wise, it almost looks like a step back.

Judging from the energy surging between the parts during transformers, it would appear that certain parts of the VF actually completely separate from the plane itself temporarily, which is necessary for the electro magnetism (or whatever it's using) to keep it close by for reattachment.

And yes, I'm disappointed that SK chose CG animation again over 2D animation. The CG in M0 lacked the life and artistic feeling that M+ provided. If they could've used Full Metal Panic-styled 2D animation for the battles, that would've been more than modern enough.

[eugimon]

the halves of the vf-25 don't seperate. if you watch or carefully or examine the screen shots, there are rails on either side that keep the upper body connected to the lower body.

and your dates are off, MF seems to take place 2070, which would make it less than 30 years after m7

Edited November 11, 2007 by eugimon

[deadghost]

guys I am filled with so much macross f fever that I am going to my buddy who is a a tatoo artist and have him make a special tat on my arm. If I get in sunday I promise I will post pics of all my tats, just some eye candy for u guys

[Robojack]

the halves of the vf-25 don't seperate. if you watch or carefully or examine the screen shots, there are rails on either side that keep the upper body connected to the lower body.

and your dates are off, MF seems to take place 2070, which would make it less than 30 years after m7

Whew, that makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification. But still, we'd better get some VF-19 and/or Vf-22 love, especially if the VF-17's making appearances. Or could it be that UN Spacy finally gave up on the VF-19 and 22 units, due to their high costs?

[openget]

My first thought was that the fleet might not have gotten the VF-19/VF-22 plans yet, so just stuck with the VF-17 design, but that makes no sense seeing as how long ago the VF-19 became the main Variable fighter...

Anyway, The VF-25 Looks nice...although the main character looks too much like a girl imo

Edited November 11, 2007 by openget

[Mr March]

I think the control stick along the inside of the small robotic arm is a training device. I mean, the robotic arm is no larger than the arm of the person that is controlling it as shown in the trailer. Unless this unit is part of a roughly human sized power armor, I suspect it's some kind of training machine, which I think is plausible at the very least. I think it's just meant to help illustrate how the Valkyries are controlled in Battroid mode. Also, the sliding mount has been seen before, as GGemini has said. The control stick itself is situated on a movable mount that can be slid forward or backward. The Macross Plus movie showed this and there was also a similar control in DYRL. Can't recall if we saw it in Macross Zero again or not.

[Graham]

I'm a huge fan of the VF-17 (as most of you know) and I'm obviously happy to see a variant back in the new series. Although I am as surprised as anyone about it. I just hope they don't end up as so much cannon fodder with the hero VF-25 coming along to save the day!

I would have also thought that a variant of the VF-19 or VF-22 would have been more likely. Although perhaps as has been suggested, the VF-19 and VF-22 did prove too costly and complicated in the end and an advanced VF-17 was simply a cheaper option for mass production, espcially for a colony fighter that will spend 99% of the time in space based missions protecting the fleet.

The extra wing mounted ordnance shown on the VF-17 doesn't surprise me as the original VF-17D/S was very light on missiles, but heavily armed with guns.

Anyway, can't wait to see some line art on the new VF-17.

Graham

[eugimon]

what if this fleet isn't made up of the best and newest, but launched behind an advance fleet? It's focused more on habitats and on civilian needs along with military academies. so it doesn't get the newest ships, they make do with older and surplus designs seeing as the commanders figure that the advance fleet ahead should be able to deal with any enemy encounters.

[Roy's Blues]

I am really liking the images I am seeing for this series.

Please keep posting updates!

[azrael]

I think the control stick along the inside of the small robotic arm is a training device. I mean, the robotic arm is no larger than the arm of the person that is controlling it as shown in the trailer. Unless this unit is part of a roughly human sized power armor, I suspect it's some kind of training machine, which I think is plausible at the very least.

That scene is probably of our protagonist in a training sim (He is in training after all). Probably a Basic Battroid Movement course he's in.

I would have also thought that a variant of the VF-19 or VF-22 would have been more likely. Although perhaps as has been suggested, the VF-19 and VF-22 did prove too costly and complicated in the end and an advanced VF-17 was simply a cheaper option for mass production, espcially for a colony fighter that will spend 99% of the time in space based missions protecting the fleet.

Or perhaps the VF-19(main force)/VF-22(Spec Ops) became the fighter-of-choice for combat fleets. Colony fleets doesn't need expensive fighters for what would be 90%-survey missions. Look at M7. They only had VF-11s and a squad of VF-17s. It wasn't until nearly 5 months into combat with the Varauta that the VF-19 showed itself, and more than 10 months until they got a VF-22. Macross 5 only had mostly VF-11s, VA-14s (and probably VF-14s and I won't count the VAB-2 since they probably only had a handful just in case). From the article, it sounds like this particular fleet has been uneventful until we see them now. So did they even have a need for VF-19s/VF-22s? Probably not.

[Sumdumgai]

I'm wondering if Saotome is wearing power armor or a valkyrie costume in the scene where he's handling a big paper airplane made out of a poster of that Nome girl. In that pic he has mecha-like hands, like in the later shots where the arm of something opens up and shows a human hand at a joystick along the inner arm. I'm wondering if they've made any micronized versions of the Q-rau of ndj-ger (won't even try to spell it ). Might not be useful for space combat against larger ships and vehicles, but could be very handy against invading forces of similar-sized beings.

Yeah, I'm hoping that the VF-17 doesn't get dealt the VF-11 role of exploding targets. I really like the look of this new VF-17. I'd like to see the VF-25 without missiles attached to the wings, so we can see its normal battroid mode with what I'm guessing will be folded wings. I just never liked battroid mode on the VF-1s when they still had missiles and the wings not folded.

edit: added a syllable to the abbreviation because it looked wrong.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Sumdumgai

[Dante74]

I uploaded it to the RSS channel, just look for Macross.

Wow thanks! But I can't seem to find it.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

I'm a huge fan of the VF-17 (as most of you know) and I'm obviously happy to see a variant back in the new series. Although I am as surprised as anyone about it. I just hope they don't end up as so much cannon fodder with the hero VF-25 coming along to save the day!

I would have also thought that a variant of the VF-19 or VF-22 would have been more likely. Although perhaps as has been suggested, the VF-19 and VF-22 did prove too costly and complicated in the end and an advanced VF-17 was simply a cheaper option for mass production, espcially for a colony fighter that will spend 99% of the time in space based missions protecting the fleet.

The extra wing mounted ordnance shown on the VF-17 doesn't surprise me as the original VF-17D/S was very light on missiles, but heavily armed with guns.

Anyway, can't wait to see some line art on the new VF-17.

Graham

I'm liking what i am seeing from the screenshots, i may be converted to the 17 side yet G-Man, as long as that nose is longer than the original!

[badboy00z]

The VF-25 is almost perfect! It has just about all my favorite designs of all the VFs. All that is missing is the VF-19 shoulders and for the top (top view of the plane) of the engines to look more like the SV-51. Oh and VF-19 Kai's "ankle guards".

Can't wait until Yamato releases a 1/60 of this guy.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Also want to see what the K-man will do up for armour and Fp's for this bad girl.

I am really excited by the VF-25 design. It's yummy.

Edited November 11, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie