Macross 25th Anniversary and upcoming new TV series thread

[Zinjo]

Prolly the paint schemes are throwing people off.

Does anyone see the Spacy Kite?

Makes me wonder if that logo was changed to reflect the galactic nature of humanity or if the VF-25 is actually an older "training" vehicle, not an actual contemporary line fighter of the fleet, thus has the flight school logo and not the kite...

[cyde01]

if it was an older training vehicle it wouldn't say "shingata" in kanji next to the VF-25.

[Mr March]

Aha! You may be onto something with that line of thought.

Also, what of the number designation itself; the VF-25? If Macross Frontier does indeed take place in the 2070s, that's a minimum of roughly 25 years since the last variable vehicles were seen in 2045-46. It seems unlikely that in 25 years only three variable fighters (VF-23, VF-24 and VF-25) have been produced. In the 28 years between 2012 and 2040, the UNG was up to seventeen variable fighter designs, with 19 and 21 on the way. Even accounting for changes in policy and the rapid growth of the early space civilization of the New Unity Government, we would expect to see far more variable fighters designed in the intervening 25 years.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Mr March

[emajnthis]

Aha! You may be onto something with that line of thought.

Also, what of the number designation itself; the VF-25? If Macross Frontier does indeed take place in the 2070s, that's a minimum of roughly 25 years since the last variable vehicles were seen in 2045-46. It seems unlikely that in 25 years only three variable fighters (VF-23, VF-24 and VF-25) have been produced. In the 28 years between 2012 and 2040, the UNG was up to seventeen variable fighter designs, with 19 and 21 on the way. Even accounting for changes in policy and the rapid growth of the early space civilization of the New Unity Government, we would expect to see far more variable fighters designed in the intervening 25 years.

It's not farfetched to have three fighters progressions in 25 years, especially if it's the main fighter, we're still using the F-15's and 18's and they're both over 20 years old (1972 and 1978 respectively) and aren't going to be removed from service anytime soon.

Edited November 8, 2007 by emajnthis

[azrael]

Aha! You may be onto something with that line of thought.

Also, what of the number designation itself; the VF-25? If Macross Frontier does indeed take place in the 2070s, that's a minimum of roughly 25 years since the last variable vehicles were seen in 2045-46. It seems unlikely that in 25 years only three variable fighters (VF-23, VF-24 and VF-25) have been produced. In the 28 years between 2012 and 2040, the UNG was up to seventeen variable fighter designs, with 19 and 21 on the way. Even accounting for changes in policy and the rapid growth of the early space civilization of the New Unity Government, we would expect to see far more variable fighters designed in the intervening 25 years.

Ummm, I won't think of "VF-25" too much more than a nod to the 25th anniversary. We have had the VF-5000 and the VF-3000 so I won't put too much mental effort into wondering where that number came from.

Concerning the VF-25....I see a Suhkoi design in it again....Kawamori seems to like that direction.....

[lord_breetai]

if it was an older training vehicle it wouldn't say "shingata" in kanji next to the VF-25.

Shin Gata means new forum or new type of, but that could be reffering to things from a real worl perspective as well... otherwise even if it is a brand new mech in the Macross universe it still might be the flight school's mech and not have official military isgnia to desginate it as a training mech.

But the UNS could also change their logo or update it.

[cyde01]

Shin Gata means new forum or new type of, but that could be reffering to things from a real worl perspective as well...

it's possible, although i highly doubt that that's what the magazine writer meant. they prob would have wrote "shinsaku" if it was referring from a real world perspective (as in Kawamori's latest "work"). "shingata" connotes that it's a physical something that has been built. also the text next to the pic of the fighter says it is un spacy's new mainline fighter, although i can't confirm that without higher res pics.

[Sumdumgai]

Yeah, I was going to mention the VF-3000 and VF-5000. There could also have been a number of other designations in use, like the VA or VB series.

With the amount of valkyries that were made between SDF Macross and Macross 7, I think it would be weird if creation slowed down to a crawl between M7 and MF. Yes, it is just speculation and assumption, but I would think they would have have a number of cheap, easily built variable fighters being designed for colonies, long range fleets, and specialized roles.

The only big VF-1 link I see other than the colors of the Hikaru-scheme, are the sweeping wings. Eugimon and Mr March have already nailed the big differences and where they can be tracked to.

[Zinjo]

But the UNS could also change their logo or update it.

I always wondered why it stayed the same... Personally I'd like to see the kite with a ring of stars around it for every system colonized, kind of like the old US flag (no relation... ).

If the VF-25 was a one off design similar to the VF-3000 & VF-5000 that would be a break in the generational chain established in M7.

It wouldn't surprise me if it were the older trainer VF. From a marketing point of view it allows more surprises to be revealed in later press releases or in the series itself...

Remember, the transformable nature of the VF-1 was not known until the end of episode 1 in SDFM...

Such surprises tend to draw the audience in with the hope of more surprises as the show progresses...

Edited November 8, 2007 by Zinjo

[emajnthis]

I'm just hoping they show more than just the VF-25 since every series after SDF:M had at least three VF's show cased throughout the series. We need some more variety.

[azrael]

Shin Gata means new forum or new type of, but that could be reffering to things from a real worl perspective as well... otherwise even if it is a brand new mech in the Macross universe it still might be the flight school's mech and not have official military isgnia to desginate it as a training mech.

It's possible. The VF-25 could be new in terms of us, the viewer, since we've never seen it before. To the show, it could be an old design that they use for training that gets rushed into combat usage. We need context...

It's times like this where I would like the article to be translated...

[chrono]

R u being serious? Even if there had been some kind of Anti-UN remnant group surviving after the unification wars, I seriously doubt they would have survived the Zentradi bombardment of Space War I.

Who knows how the Anti-UN group survived. It could've easily morphed into a hate group that is 'Pro Human' instead of what it was. It would certainly fit in with today's political clime. It worked in M7 with the Meltran's, so it could easily work with normal humans.

[azrael]

Who knows how the Anti-UN group survived. It could've easily morphed into a hate group that is 'Pro Human' instead of what it was. It would certainly fit in with today's political clime. It worked in M7 with the Meltran's, so it could easily work with normal humans.

Technically, any group opposed to the UN is AUN. Especially post-2012 era. It could be a Pro-Human league, renegade Zentradi/Meltrandi, etc. And they may not necessarily work together like the old AUN.

[Zinjo]

Who knows how the Anti-UN group survived. It could've easily morphed into a hate group that is 'Pro Human' instead of what it was. It would certainly fit in with today's political clime. It worked in M7 with the Meltran's, so it could easily work with normal humans.

I suspect SK is planning on revealing more about the SA or PC.

With colonies all over the galaxy there is a higher risk of seceding colony worlds than a group or network of disgruntled people looking to take on an emigration fleet of 10 million people. Terrorists tend either have a political or vengeance adjenda (very simplified, but true).

With a colony world looking to secede, the aspect of approriated SPACY equipment comes into play and then you have a furball waiting to happen...

[Mr March]

emajnthis

I was specifically using a Macross example to make the point. Yes, there are still older fighters in service in the real world, but a single country on Earth is hardly representative of the pace of development for a vast empire spanning multiple star systems like the UNG. Like I said, from the 28 years between the earlier series, they were already over 20 VF designations. Seems quite odd for only three to come about in the next 25 years. Still, it's just a guess.

azrael

Oh, I'm willing to bet it might be yet another "25" reference as well, but that doesn't discount the theory. The VF-5000 is an interesting example for sure, though I'm not quite sure what relevance it has. Yes, the Star Mirage is out of sequence for a main line fighter, but aside from this one exception, the rest are all chronological two-digit designations that keep going up. Unless we're saying there were a dozen 5000-like variable fighter designations between the VF-22 and the VF-25, I can't see the VF-5000 point making much sense. If we reverse it and say the VF-25 is a VF-5000 like situation, that makes even less sense to me, since all the two-digit designated fighters have come after the other as the numbers increase.

Sumdumgai

Oh, I suppose the sweeping wings are a similarity to the VF-1, if they do indeed sweep. Regardless, I'm not sure that's much of a VF-1 reference compared to the others. But, no big deal either way.

[cyde01]

It's possible. The VF-25 could be new in terms of us, the viewer, since we've never seen it before. To the show, it could be an old design that they use for training that gets rushed into combat usage. We need context...

It's times like this where I would like the article to be translated...

that's what i'm saying, i'm going off of what is written in the article next to the pic. the VF-25 is not an old VF but the new main fighter, at least according to the text next to the pic. of course, it sounds like people like zinjo are arguing whether the article itself is accurate or not.

[Twoducks]

Finally, stuff to look at

Doesn't look very "next gen" but I like how the tailfins look in gerwalk.

It also struck me as a VF-1 in fighter at first mainly because it has a more "classic look" (you put two normal wings vf-1/0 style on a plane and I call it "classic" as opposed to the weirder fighter designs from M7 like the vf-14, vf-17, VA-3, vf-19, VF-5000 and vf-22). I must note also that anything above a F-15 looks "modern/hi-tech" to me

Noticed the SV-51 nose and head influence and the YF-19 ass later.

[eugimon]

I wonder if putting the tail fins on the wing root, instead of on the legs, is SK's way of being nicer to the toy people? Will these mean an end to all the "wings not big e-nuf!" complaints?

[Graham]

I think having only three new VFs (VF-23, VF-24 & VF-25) between 2045 (M7) and 2070 (MF) is about right.

If we look at the in-service dates of the main variable fighters (not counting attack craft, special forces fighters, light fighters etc), they are: -

VF-1: 2009 to 2020 = 11 years.

VF-4: 2020 to 2030 = 10 years.

VF-11: 2030 to ????

VF-19: Decision made to adopt VF-19 as main Variable fighter in 2041, but by 2045 or even 2050 (VF-X2), it appears the VF-19 was still not in widespread use.

Graham

[lord_breetai]

that's what i'm saying, i'm going off of what is written in the article next to the pic. the VF-25 is not an old VF but the new main fighter, at least according to the text next to the pic. of course, it sounds like people like zinjo are arguing whether the article itself is accurate or not.

At least for myself I'm just looking at the pictures, I havn't had time to sit down with a Kanji dictionary and read the article (must learn more kanji!). I was just talking about general ideas... but if it is the "main fighter" then I still predict we'll get a mid-series power up or something... like the VF-11 was the main figher of the Macross 7 fleet until later in the series, there will be some kind of upgrade part way through.

but not in the dramatic Super Robot sense.

[s001]

All can I say watching at this new stuff is that I'm shocked but not surprised at all... and I don't like how it feels.

[Mr March]

I'm looking at all the VFs, not just the fighters actively serving in the main fighter role. You've got five main line fighters (VF-1, VF-4, VF-5000, VF-11 and VF-19) developed in 33 years between 2012 and 2045, plus 16 variable fighters all developed during the same time. So in the next 25 years between 2045 and 2070, the number of developed fighters in the UNG military goes from 16 down to 2 (VF-23 and VF-24)? Over two-thirds the same time has passed yet one-eighth the number of fighters have been developed. That's one helluva change in the pace of VF development

Edited November 9, 2007 by Mr March

[eugimon]

I'm looking at all the VFs, not just the fighters actively serving in the main fighter role. You've got five main line fighters (VF-1, VF-4, VF-5000, VF-11 and VF-19) developed in 33 years between 2012 and 2045, plus 16 variable fighters all developed during the same time. So in the next 25 years between 2045 and 2070, the number of developed fighters in the UNG military goes from 16 down to 2 (VF-23 and VF-24)? Over two-thirds the same time has passed yet one-eighth the number of fighters have been developed. That's one helluva change in the pace of VF development

maybe they're just continuing the trend started in M7, make minor mission specific variations of a common frame (the myriad vf-19 versions) rather than produce many limited run/role specific fighters. That could account for the fewer fighters developed between M7 and MF.

[Graham]

I think that the New Type article may possibly refer to the VF-25 as "new", in that it is a new for fans to see, but not necessarily new in the Macross timeline. Who knows, by 2070 the VF-25 may actually be a fairly old VF in service for several years already.

Another point is that we do not know how long the colony fleet has been in space. I get the impression that for colony fleets, especially those that have been in space for a long time and not encountered any threat, upgrading to the next main variable fighter is usually a very low priority (finite resources and all that).

Another thing to consider is that with advances in technology and VF capability, UN Spacy may have dropped the requirement for having both a main VF and a Special Forces VF and standardized on only one type, which would cut down on the number of new models.

Even if we don't see any additional new VFs in the new TV series, I'm fairly confident we will at least see FAST Packs and hopefully full armor.

Also, having fewer new fighters is something that is paralleled in the real world. As capability increases and technology improves, cost increases dramatically. Just look at how few new designs we have today, compared with say the 1940s', 1950s' & 1960s'.

Assuming the VF-19 didn't enter widespread service as the main variable fighter until the 2050s' together with the VF-22 as Special Operations fighter, that has them in service for less than 20 years, which is a reasonable lifespan.

Graham

[Zinjo]

Those are good points as well however, we don't know if SK is going to mirror real life and have SPACY move toward branch specific fighters. VF-25 for the Navy, VF-26 for the Marines, VF-27 for the Airforce, etc...

Then there is the current situation with the real world F-35 Lightning where it was designed with different features depending on what the purchasing service branch required. 3 different variants on the same airframe, which was hinted at in M7...

Edited November 9, 2007 by Zinjo

[Keith]

Hmm, while it probably won't happen, I'd find it pretty entertaining to see Isamu pop up as a flight instructor

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

PHEW! Just finished reading the whole tread. I was a little behind on the new series.

The "new" VF-25 (is that it's official designation?) looks more like the 5000 that any other valk. So VF-5000 lover rejoice! You'll have your Yamato VF-5000 toy (sort of) after all

[eugimon]

PHEW! Just finished reading the whole tread. I was a little behind on the new series.

The "new" VF-25 (is that it's official designation?) looks more like the 5000 that any other valk. So VF-5000 lover rejoice! You'll have your Yamato VF-5000 toy (sort of) after all

bah, I want the 5000 because of Fighter mode and this doesn't look much like it. gimmie both!

[sketchley]

新型 - a new [the latest] style [design, type, model]. - Shinseido's Daily Concise Japanese-English Dictionary

I interpret that as "the latest style of the Valkyrie", "the latest model of the Valkyrie" or "the latest Valkyrie design". It must be stressed that none of the potential translations mean that it is the only new VF, nor the most advanced VF to appear in the new series. It is simply the latest VF design to be released to the public.

[TheLoneWolf]

I'm just hoping they show more than just the VF-25 since every series after SDF:M had at least three VF's show cased throughout the series. We need some more variety.

I wouldn't worry about the VF-25 hogging all the spotlight. IIRC, early promotional flyers for Macross Plus featured the VF-11B and YF-21, but the YF-19 was nowhere to be found.

[MacrossCN]

新型 - a new [the latest] style [design, type, model]. - Shinseido's Daily Concise Japanese-English Dictionary

I interpret that as "the latest style of the Valkyrie", "the latest model of the Valkyrie" or "the latest Valkyrie design". It must be stressed that none of the potential translations mean that it is the only new VF, nor the most advanced VF to appear in the new series. It is simply the latest VF design to be released to the public.

新型バルキリー VF25

　統合軍の時期主力可変戦闘機。VF-1の流れをくむ優秀な機体だ。

主力

MAIN, VF-25 is U.N. Main Valk in 2070.

I think it is NEW design for SK, it is not NEW for U.N.

=======================================

071109, 23:56 JST(update again)

http://www.tanomi.com/macross/

Macross U.N. Music flight jacket

Maybe left package could inculde MP3 player~~~

and headphone...

BUT..................

limit produce: 100

= =

Edited November 9, 2007 by kresphy

[Zinjo]

071109, 23:56 JST(update again)

http://www.tanomi.com/macross/

Macross U.N. Music flight jacket

Maybe left package could inculde MP3 player~~~

and headphone...

BUT..................

limit produce: 100

= =

NICE, doubtful they'd have my size...

[Graham]

Got the December issue of New Type. Here's a larger and clearer scan of the grey VF-25. Note it is number '001'.

Markings on the wings and legs say 'SMS 001'. No UN Spacy emblem visible on this one or the Hikaru color version.

I'm really growing to like the design.

Graham

[Necron_99]

Nice!

[charger69]

And now the Focker scheme... I'm really wondering what's going on