Vermillion21 Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 To be honest yes. Transformation is better on both of those, but balance, proportions(especially compared to Primus) and electronics are far better on Darth Vader. Lots of play value, and seems less "kiddified" than Unicron. Primus and Unicron are bigger, but for the discount price, and for what he has, Vader is awesome. Funny thing is, there are more electronic gimmicks than just the voices you sample in box. Thanks Shin ... I'll need to try and budget for this guy. But I want to save some cash with the Megahouse Mospeada cyclones coming out next month.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) Thanks Shin ... I'll need to try and budget for this guy. But I want to save some cash with the Megahouse Mospeada cyclones coming out next month. He is %40 off at walmart man, so he is $30, buy him now, you won't regret it! I am actually more impressed by him than both Unicron and Primus, even if both of the latter have some better things going for them. Collectors often question that Cantina Han Solo that keeps popping up, the Chewbaccas nobody wants Neither of those two showed up much in the TAC line. Luke showed up but even he was just relegated to 4 waves, each being a different figure. His presence on shelf was far outshown by the abundance of no name army building clone troopers, who were far more popular. Its been said by people in the action figure industry many times, no franchise can be compared to Star Wars. Even some of their mass market waves have no main character at all, yet still sell and have high demand. The legs stretch out to normal size and you can shrink the backpack mass a bit. The ship mode is excellent too, but that's not surprising since that's the strength of this line. I had no idea he could stretch his legs, he looks much better. So does he have full shoulder articulation? Also, what do you think of the X-wing? Despite my dissapointment that it is based on the vintage stubby xwing toy, and that I have not read one good review on it, I am still tempted to buy it. I hear Cody and the sharkmouth ARC-170 are some of the best in addition to the Death Star and Millenium Falcon. the Snake Eyes and Dukes in the various GI Joe lines Well Sigma 6 died and those 2 were in nearly every wave... Will Classics suffer because both the movie toys and the cartoon toys have something the kids can sit down to watch on tv or DVD? This is a valid concern but I think Classics will still survive, since it will arrive when only the cartoon toys are on shelves. By that time the movie toys will be gone and clearanced. Would Alternators have done better if there'd been a show to go with them (or if Hasbro had done a series of related lines and so expanded it beyond just cars)? Its possible, but what I think hurt it the most was lack of advertising. With the movie toys, they are advertised everywhere from men's magazines to comics and much more. With Alternators, it was either word of mouth or seeing it in stores. I suspect eventually Classics will become mainly collectors, while the kids go for the toys based on the show It might be the case, but with minimal character overlap(the same characters in both lines), and with Prowl and others who show up in both lines but looking very different from each other, the lines may not cancel each other out. They may actually complement each other. For example, we know for sure Prowl will be in both Classics and Animated. However both look entirely different. What if an Ironhide toy comes out in Animated? In Animated he looks like his G1 self. In that case, he may not be in Classics(doesn't stop me from wanting a Classics styled version though). So long as the character versions look very different, character overlap can occur, but if they look very similar, I doubt they will make it to shelves in both incarnations. Same reason I relucltantly accept that Blitzwing might not make it in Classics. With only 2 Transformer lines out this fall(08, with animated and classics), and the xmas rush, I think both will sell well. We won't need to worry until next spring. Lack of character overlap may actually encourage kids to buy the classics characters that don't show up in animated, to expand their collection. With that said, neither toy line destroys each other, and both hopefully last instead of dying like alternators. I do agree the story sells the toys for many kids, though I see it as somewhat of a balance between memorable characters from the show, and what toy looks "freakin' sweet™" at the toy store. If a character has neither going for them, they're not going to sell. However, you can have fiction with the heroes being the victorious ones all the time, and still have some really memorable villains that pull the kids in and make them want their toys. After all, the heroes can't be all that heroic if their villains aren't all that interesting. Agreed completely, and well said. Edited January 4, 2008 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0
mikeszekely Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 LAF shipped my reissue Masterpiece Megatron today. I guess I'll get it tomorrow or Monday then.
Alpha OTS Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 I had no idea he could stretch his legs, he looks much better. So does he have full shoulder articulation? Also, what do you think of the X-wing? Despite my dissapointment that it is based on the vintage stubby xwing toy, and that I have not read one good review on it, I am still tempted to buy it. I hear Cody and the sharkmouth ARC-170 are some of the best in addition to the Death Star and Millenium Falcon. I can't believe the promo pictures Hasbro was showing for the Speeder had the shrunken dwarf legs and the At-At's head was flush against the body making it look like it didn't have a neck. Neither are the case, and both are things that make their figures considerably far better than what those promo pictures promised. Then again, this isn't the first, nor will it be the last, time that Hasbro has mistransformed its own product while promoting them. Sadly, the snowspeeder doesn't have full shoulder articulation. He can't raise his arms fully in the air because the shoulder "covers" that you see in that pic prevent such movement. He can stretch them fully outwards, either frontwards or laterally, and bend at the elbows to reach towards his face. So below the shoulder line, he has full movement. The X-wing is one of the weakest in the line. Arm articulation is terrible. The ankles are a very weak spot prone to snapping. The head looks like they took it from a normal rebel pilot action figure and painted the face under the visor silver. It just looks like it needs another step or two to fold up more parts so the robot mode is more aesthetically appealling too. The vehicle's the best part, but this is one of the weakest vehicles in the line. Partly because of the stubbiness, but mostly because there isn't a stable X mode for the wings. Personally, I like it because it's an X-wing that turns into a robot, but there's no denying it has problems. Cody's been getting good reviews from what I've seen. The character/vehicle(pre-AT-AT on wheels) don't do much for me, so I passed. It does look well proportioned, and is clearly a representation of its namesake. The clones are some of the better figures in the line. The vehicles modes are excellent, but that's not surprising. Robot modes have some issues, but not many. The ARC-170s have knees in a really odd spot, too low on the leg. The Clone carrier(name eludes me for the moment) is kind of gangly in robot mode, but the vehicle mode has slots in it so you can fill the bay with the pilots from other figures. Supposedly Hasbro's confirmed that we'll see more of the line in 2008, which if true is good news, imo. We need some Tie Fighter variants, a Twin Pod Cloud Car, a Y-wing, an A-wing, a landspeeder, an AT-ST and anything else Original Trilogy related.
Metal_Massacre_79 Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 How can Hasbro (or any toy company for that matter) allow their promo pictures to be release knowing that they are either posed or transformed incorrectly? Doesn't someone have to approve of the photos before they are released. Isn't there someone at the photo shoot that looks at the damn toy and says "hey that isn't transformed properly!"
Alpha OTS Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) How can Hasbro (or any toy company for that matter) allow their promo pictures to be release knowing that they are either posed or transformed incorrectly? Doesn't someone have to approve of the photos before they are released. Isn't there someone at the photo shoot that looks at the damn toy and says "hey that isn't transformed properly!" They usually don't know because the people displaying them or doing the promotion for them are not the people who designed the toy. Landfill(Build King) is one notorious example, although it's easy to see why. He's really easy to mistransform, and it takes quite a bit of attention to make him look cohesive in combined mode. To illustrate, here's the Target Constructicon repaint set of this team: Compare that with the entry for this figure at www.tfu.info here. Edited January 5, 2008 by Alpha OTS
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 How can Hasbro (or any toy company for that matter) allow their promo pictures to be release knowing that they are either posed or transformed incorrectly? Doesn't someone have to approve of the photos before they are released. Isn't there someone at the photo shoot that looks at the damn toy and says "hey that isn't transformed properly!" Its happened for years, but no one knows why, the latest being the mistransformed shoulders on the Commander Cody STWF in the latest ad. They are not as bad as the various mishaps seen in store ads though. Still makes you wonder though. Personally, I like it because it's an X-wing that turns into a robot, but there's no denying it has problems. Thats my main attraction to it too. I really wish Hasbro had based it off of the newer Red 5 Xwing, rather than the vintage kenner one from the 70's(the stubby, chubby out of proportion one with small wings). I want to see a well done A-wing, B-wing, and TIE Interceptor. A big transformer like the falcon or death star vader would be a welcome addition. Maybe a Star Destroyer that turns into Darth Revan.
Alpha OTS Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Thats my main attraction to it too. I really wish Hasbro had based it off of the newer Red 5 Xwing, rather than the vintage kenner one from the 70's(the stubby, chubby out of proportion one with small wings). I want to see a well done A-wing, B-wing, and TIE Interceptor. A big transformer like the falcon or death star vader would be a welcome addition. Maybe a Star Destroyer that turns into Darth Revan. Unfortunately, if the SWTF X-wing had larger wings and kept the same transformation, he'd look considerably worse, because that's one of the unfinished looking parts of the figure. And they did do a Falcon , which is pretty decent and while the Han half looks pretty crappy compared to the decent Chewbacca half, it's another example of electronics done right.
Vermillion21 Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 (edited) Yeah, TFU.info is a great online TF resource ... I used it a lot when I started to get back into collecting TFs a couple of years back. Helped me be informed when tracking down older series TFs ... Edited January 5, 2008 by Vermillion21
mikeszekely Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 They usually don't know because the people displaying them or doing the promotion for them are not the people who designed the toy. Landfill(Build King) is one notorious example, although it's easy to see why. He's really easy to mistransform, and it takes quite a bit of attention to make him look cohesive in combined mode. To illustrate, here's the Target Constructicon repaint set of this team: Compare that with the entry for this figure at www.tfu.info here. Am I living in a parallel universe or something? I don't remember any Target exclusive Devastators in 2006. I remember a Wal-Mart one that was a repaint of some Energon toys.
Metal_Massacre_79 Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 No, it's not another universe. I seen this at Target too when I was on a Classics hunting kick. but I passed on it because of how retarded it looked (much like I passed on Megatron due to his ultra gay color scheme). I almost passed on the Jazz white Alternator figure too since his bot form was messed up on the box. I had a choice between Jazz and another figure, so I got the other one but when I came home and actually got to see the correct image of Jazz, I went back and got him. I didn't bother looking up pics of the Devastator though. Might have changed my mind on that one too.
Alpha OTS Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Am I living in a parallel universe or something? I don't remember any Target exclusive Devastators in 2006. I remember a Wal-Mart one that was a repaint of some Energon toys. It was one of those sets that if you weren't paying attention to a Transformers forum(like the allspark) was probably easy to miss. It hit the store, was discounted soon after, and then quickly moved off the shelfs. There was also the Walmart "Classics" Devastator which you mentioned which is a repaint of Energon Constructicon Maximus, and before that the KayBee Micromaster Devastator set. If you look around on eBay now, you can find the KO World Smallest Transformer scale Devastator set, which I added some paint touch ups to in the pic above. I'm not sure of any other transformable Devastators that have been released.
mikeszekely Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 It's not so much that I was collecting Devastators, as I was collecting Classics. I knew the Wal-Mart repaint was coming under the Classics banner, and I made sure to get that one. After I had that one, I'm not sure I would have bothered with this Target one anyway... I'm just a little surprised it slipped in under my radar. Of course, my area absolutely sucks sometimes for toys. I never saw Alternator Prime, Shockwave, Rumble, or Ravage, nor were there any Titanium Ultra Magnus or WW Megatron (well, there was that two pack with WW Prime and Megs, but as I already had Prime, I wasn't interested).
promethuem5 Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 My WallyWorld sucks too... I'm not sure we ever got MP Starscream... and they never get other funky Wal-Mart exclusives... I'm still mad I couldn't find the first Marvel Legends wave variant Stealth Armor Iron Man...
Vermillion21 Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 (edited) You can probably find the Target Universe Devastator set (there are 2 boxes of 2) for relatively cheap on eBay MIB. The Build King repaint isn't that popular. I got mine about a year ago for $27 shipped. Edited January 5, 2008 by Vermillion21
promethuem5 Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Honestly, one Build-King was enough... it's a good looking set with great smaller robots, but it's not a particularly exciting combined mode IMO... functional without being super-rad like some of the others.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 I liked Build King Devastator much better than the Energon version. After collecting a lot of Energon toys during the time it was on tv, I grew dissapointed with some of my purchases. Energon was just bland. Articulation was there one some toys, but when it didn't suffer, the overall aesthetic did. It also seemed that some toys were neglected in the design stage due to either last minute decisions or budget cutting. Some of the designs did not seem complete. Afterwards, it did not appeal to me as much as Cybertron and Classics. Build King Devastator looks much better if you do not transform it as shown on the box. He screams Devastator more than the compromised energon version does.
Alpha OTS Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 Build King Devastator looks much better if you do not transform it as shown on the box. He screams Devastator more than the compromised energon version does. I think he does too. He looks like a mash of construction vehicles, which is always a vibe I got from G1 Devastator especially because of the legs and feet. The Energon mold is just too symmetrical and the chest is too flat.
Vermillion21 Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 The disappointment with all the TF Energon series combiners is that Hasbro repeated the "limb" molds twice for each team. Making the combiner robot a little too repetitive. Otherwise, the individual robots themselves were pretty decent IMHO.
Alpha OTS Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 The disappointment with all the TF Energon series combiners is that Hasbro repeated the "limb" molds twice for each team. Making the combiner robot a little too repetitive. Otherwise, the individual robots themselves were pretty decent IMHO. They should have mixed it up a little amongst the existing teams. Give the combaticons a decepticon repaint of one of the aerialbots, and the aerialbots an autobot repaint of their helicopter mold. The construction vehicles don't really go well with any of them, but you probably could have gotten away with giving the combaticon tank mold to the constructicon team. Not perfect, but it would have been better than dual repeats.
David Hingtgen Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 I never actually completed an Energon combiner. I did a quasi-Bruticus: Barricade, Plus 1 of each Combaticon limb type. Plus a Constructicon. (the front-loader). And an A-10 Aerialbot. (sorry, can't remember names, too much reuse over the years--I can only keep G1 limb names straight)
kensei Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 The limb repeat bothered me too. How annoying. The Universe Devastator looked good, but I still reckon they half assed it by only giving us four out of the six. The final gestalt in the end looked crap.
Fit For Natalie Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 Well, it was a repaint of a toy who wasn't supposed to be a Decepticon in the first place. The Energon combiners were late additions to the line, inserted into the line at Hasbro's insistence. Apparently Hasbro themselves engineered the toys, but it was so late in the game they had a limited budget to implement it. How can Hasbro (or any toy company for that matter) allow their promo pictures to be release knowing that they are either posed or transformed incorrectly? Doesn't someone have to approve of the photos before they are released. Isn't there someone at the photo shoot that looks at the damn toy and says "hey that isn't transformed properly!" I believe they explained at a Botcon that Hasbro has a central photography department staffed by people not involved in the design of the toys, so that's why they're posed poorly or mistransformed. I assume in Japan the people from the design departments help pose the toys for photographs.
Metal_Massacre_79 Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 I assume in Japan the people from the design departments help pose the toys for photographs. If that's the case in Japan, Hasbro might want to take notice of it.
Fit For Natalie Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 (edited) Different kind of corporate set up and workload probably means the TF guys at Hasbro wouldn't have the time to do the photographs themselves. Besides, being like Takara (or any other japanese toy company that isn't Bandai) is probably something Hasbro doesn't want to copy in the interests of long-term company health. Edited January 6, 2008 by Fit For Natalie
promethuem5 Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 Asking the guys who designed the toys to take 20 minutes to help the photographers take some actually presentable photos that can only increase sales hardly seems like the kind of drastic move that is going to send Hasbro into a downward spiral...
Radd Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 I'll be the first to agree with you, Fit, that Takara is not a company one wants to emulate if they wish to remain successful. However, the old saying about the broken clock being right twice a day applies. Obviously this is not something that makes or breaks Hasbro, but putting out correctly transformed marketing photos and box art photos is just something one would expect. It's incredibly sloppy and unprofessional for them to do otherwise.
promethuem5 Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 Is there something drastically wrong with Takara as a company that I'm missing?
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 It's incredibly sloppy and unprofessional for them to do otherwise. Agreed Is there something drastically wrong with Takara as a company that I'm missing? Their business decisions, not their design/engineering teams, which are excellent.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 The disappointment with all the TF Energon series combiners is that Hasbro repeated the "limb" molds twice for each team. Making the combiner robot a little too repetitive. Otherwise, the individual robots themselves were pretty decent IMHO. Even though I understand why it was done(and honestly the reason why has been beaten like a dead horse many times), its still disapointing nonetheless. The first gestalts where the individual members completely outdo the whole, which in itself defeats the purpose and meaning of gestalt, if you think about it. I just got Commander Cody, the SWTF. Great solid figure with hidden weaponry. Vehicle mode is good, I am a fan of piloted mecha. Robot mode looks great but despite having full articulation, it is hindered by the sculpt. A lot of parts get in the way of movement. The mobility hindrance is the main disappointment.
Alpha OTS Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 (edited) I just got Commander Cody, the SWTF. Great solid figure with hidden weaponry. Vehicle mode is good, I am a fan of piloted mecha. Robot mode looks great but despite having full articulation, it is hindered by the sculpt. A lot of parts get in the way of movement. The mobility hindrance is the main disappointment. One of the reasons(besides it being Star Wars) I'm probably more forgiving of this line than most is because it features pilots. Alot of the problems with the molds so far probably could have been remedied if they hadn't had to compensate space for pilot compartments at this small of a scale. I'm tempted by Cody despite it being a prequel vehicle. Does the pilot seat have any details? Edit: Just noticed........This......is.....my 300th post! Edited January 6, 2008 by Alpha OTS
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 Does the pilot seat have any details? Just lines etched into the seat, no sculpted in displays or anything like that. Cody has one of the best looking robot modes in the line, which is one of the main reasons I bought him. Hey can the Snowspeeder robot move his arms/shoulders forward at all? I was wondering if there was movement there despite the panel blocking it. The immobile shoulders on the gunship destroyed my temptation to buy it.
Alpha OTS Posted January 6, 2008 Posted January 6, 2008 Hey can the Snowspeeder robot move his arms/shoulders forward at all? I was wondering if there was movement there despite the panel blocking it. The immobile shoulders on the gunship destroyed my temptation to buy it. I had to get my gunship out of storage to take a look because I couldn't remember. Yeowch, those shoulders are immobile. The snowspeeder has better articulation, but not by a huge stretch. It can move its arms a tiny bit forward, but the covers really limit movement so its nothing notable. The biggest improvement is the elbows which can bend the arms upwards towards the face which is something the gunship can't do at all. The snowspeeder can also raise it's arms out laterally and it looks natural doing so, which the gunship doesn't. ie: The speeder can scratch his belly and have his hands on his hips, the gunship can do this too, but it doesn't look quite right. The snowspeeder has better leg articulation too that can better handle the weight than the gunship does. I like the gunship. It looks good in robot mode, but it doesn't have much useful arm articulation, and the legs can't really handle the weight of its torso, so it only really has a couple decent poses. You can do much more with the speeder.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) The biggest improvement is the elbows which can bend the arms upwards towards the face which is something the gunship can't do at all. The snowspeeder can also raise it's arms out laterally and it looks natural doing so, which the gunship doesn't. ie: The speeder can scratch his belly and have his hands on his hips, the gunship can do this too, but it doesn't look quite right. The snowspeeder has better leg articulation too that can better handle the weight than the gunship does. Sounds good. Honestly, its starting to sound like the Snowspeeder turned out much better than the X wing. The gunship has a lot of things going for it until it gets to robot mode. I am planning to get the ARC-170 sharkmouth and eventually Millenium Falcon, and until then, waiting for the new designs to be unveiled. I hope the Xwing gets another go, completely redesigned with different transformation, bigger proportions in robot mode, and based on the more recent xwing toy in the regular line. I worry about how a B wing would turn out. I hear the Jedi Starfighter with hyperspace ring isn't bad, and that with some tinkering, actually does have decent shoulder movement. An obiwan version is coming out next month. I'd love to see a big Obi wan Transformer with a huge vehicle that can be used to take on the Death Star. An Obi Wan with hood from the OTC. Edited January 7, 2008 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0
Fit For Natalie Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 Asking the guys who designed the toys to take 20 minutes to help the photographers take some actually presentable photos that can only increase sales hardly seems like the kind of drastic move that is going to send Hasbro into a downward spiral... Chances are even badly posed photographs actually take hours to shoot, because they're going to take a hundred or so photographs, then choose the best ones. Occassionally, Hasbro have released photographs that were never used elsewhere, the photos were simply one of many that they took and did not use on the final packaging. Is there something drastically wrong with Takara as a company that I'm missing? They make poor business decisions and exceptionally poor marketing decisions. Despite a partnership with Hasbro, they frequently defy Hasbro's wishes (even though Hasbro was the only paying for the Transformers development) to suit their own plans. Remember how Galaxy Force was marketed by Takara as an entirely new continuity even though they developed it with Hasbro as a continuation of Armada and Energon? Last year, they suddenly changed their minds and decided that yes, Galaxy Force is now officially part of Armada and Energon's continuity even though their decisions in the cartoon borked everything up. I have no doubt that Hasbro were left shaking their heads after all the trouble they went through trying to rework the series.
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