JB0 Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Possibly, depending on what material is used. For flexible durability, they usually use Polyamide(PA), also known as 'unpaintable plastic'. http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Unpaintable_plastic Yeah. I know different materials hold paint different. Seems to me, in my amateur opinion, that those wouldn't hold paint well anyways due to location and function. It'd scrape off pretty fast, if I had to bet. And on top of that, Hasbro tends to use less paint when they can, and they could easily have felt the cost of the paint wasn't justified, especially given the high scrape factor. So if they couldn't mold it in the right color to start with, it'd be very likely to stay the wrong color. Just saying, given the character lends itself REALLY well to redecos and there's circumstantial evidence a G1 paint scheme was planned from day 1, it's not likely to be a gang-molding issue unless someone was terminally stupid(which has happened before, admittedly).
David Hingtgen Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Still, why BLACK? I have many things made of various types of unpaintable plastic, but many come in colors other than black. Black is by far the most common, but it can be molded in most any color AFAIK. If there's a toy-type plastic that is inherently black, it's news to me. I mean, most TF parts are molded in color and not painted. It's not an issue for most molds, as you just mold the unpaintable parts in Autobot red, or silver, or whatever color matches the rest of the toy. Ironically it's usually the painted parts that don't match---see "car doors and roofs molded in clear plastic to have transparent "glass" then painted on the outside to match the molded fenders, hood, etc". Look at Yamato---they have plenty of POM unpaintable parts, molded in VERY LIGHT GREY. ::looks at 1/60 Roy::
konimon Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 (edited) I think the sprue might have caused this problem as Takara probably didn't think of catoon accurate scheme when they were molding SS with that original greenish color, but that's just my guess. $50 price tag didn't make any room for color correction either... This SS does look funny as he looks like he's put together with electrical tape or something. Too bad Mr. Kawamori didn't get to modify THIS SS. Edited November 2, 2007 by konimon
JB0 Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 I think the sprue might have caused this problem as Takara probably didn't think of catoon accurate scheme when they were molding SS with that original greenish color, but that's just my guess. I highly doubt it. Given there appear to be mounting points for his coronation armor, I'm pretty sure they planned a G1 paint scheme from the start. Besides, have they EVER passed up a chance to do a repaint and sell the same toy all over again? A sprue issue would mess up Seeker repaints, too. I don't see any possible way AT ALL that they thought there was only going to be one deco job for that mold.
Valkyrie Hunter D Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Y'know, things are getting really sad when the WalMart stock people start recognizing you from previous visits. Still no Starscream, but I came just in time when they were restocking the toy shelves, so I had first pick from the unopened TF cases. Picked up Arcee (this was my first time to see it, not too shabby!), and finally, FINALLY, that yellow bastard '08 Bumblebee. Neee-ha! I didn't want to be greedy so I left everything else alone. Oh well, like one of the employees said: "See ya tomorrow!"
1 VF-1 2NV Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Walmart usually stocks their shelves around midnight.
Fit For Natalie Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Like I said, Hasbro likely changed the colour of some parts somewhere that Takara originally didn't intend to make in another colour, and the tradeoff was that the hinges became black as they were part of the same sprue. If the hinges weren't part of another sprue unrelated to the wings, then why aren't the wings black or some other large section black? It is unlikely that the hinges would have a single sprue dedicated to themselves, so its far more likely that they were part of a sprue that has now been made entirely black. Too bad Mr. Kawamori didn't get to modify THIS SS. I'd prefer he keep away from Transformers. Remember that he sacrificed the robot for the plane. One of the problems is that he was involved with the development of Diaclone, back when the G1 toys were just human-piloted mecha. These days it takes more than designing a good looking robot to make a Transformer, because you have to take personality and characterisation of the living robot into account, which is what Hasbro and Takara usually do.
Tober Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Like I said, Hasbro likely changed the colour of some parts somewhere that Takara originally didn't intend to make in another colour, and the tradeoff was that the hinges became black as they were part of the same sprue. If the hinges weren't part of another sprue unrelated to the wings, then why aren't the wings black or some other large section black? It is unlikely that the hinges would have a single sprue dedicated to themselves, so its far more likely that they were part of a sprue that has now been made entirely black. They look to be from the same sprue that includes the elbow and knee joints as well as possibly the nosecone. The plastic looks slightly different in those areas on MP-3, they dont have the same specularity/highlights of the larger pieces. Maybe they hijacked MP-6's mold, isn't he supposed to use different plastic type for the stress areas? I'd prefer he keep away from Transformers. Remember that he sacrificed the robot for the plane. One of the problems is that he was involved with the development of Diaclone, back when the G1 toys were just human-piloted mecha. These days it takes more than designing a good looking robot to make a Transformer, because you have to take personality and characterisation of the living robot into account, which is what Hasbro and Takara usually do. Then why did Takara bring him in? I prefer the prototype mold as well (and color ) but they must have wanted him for other reasons than celebrity status - I gather he costs alot.
eriku Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Meh, I like Kawamori's TF designs, and not because he's the Hory Froating Head. My favorite Optimus Prime toy is the THS 02 that he designed, and his Starscream is easily the best looking version ever as far as I'm concerned. As far as not taking into consideration the personality of the living robot? All I can say to that is, huh? His Prime and Starscream have loads of personality and to me they look more 'alive' than most of the mainline stuff that comes out. I'd love to see Kawamori's take on other characters.
David Hingtgen Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Using Skywarp parts (or just not changing the color of that particular sprue) makes a lot of sense--because nothing else does. Making that whole sprue grey would apparently make a grey nosecone too----which'd match the animation a whole lot better than "random silver". Have I mentioned that F-15's cannot have bare metal nosecones? (Most any plane with radar can't) I assume Hasbro intends the "bright silver" paint on the upper rear fuselage and nose to represent bare metal--too bad that's 2 areas the F-15 never leaves bare...
Alpha OTS Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Transformers Animated 2008 1 min clip Still not a fan of the designs. They look far too human and barely robotic. But, I get a good feeling from that 1 minute clip that the stories won't be as nauseatingly dull, stupid and difficult to watch as the last three animated series were.
konimon Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 I totally agree that MP3 repaints have always been inevitable. What I meant though was Takara intended to make less colorful scheme for their seekers and that most likely would not affect Skywarp and Thundercracker. Original MP3 was SS in its own right. I don't think that was a mere low-vis version of SS. Kawamori would've said something about that weathering at least. BTW, Although I prefer horizontal stabilizers were kept at lower legs like G1 SS, color scheme aside, Kawamori's redesigned F-15 was a pretty good one seen from top. Hinged nosecone was something I wished Yamato 1/48 VF-1 had.
Twoducks Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 Meh, I like Kawamori's TF designs, and not because he's the Hory Froating Head. My favorite Optimus Prime toy is the THS 02 that he designed, and his Starscream is easily the best looking version ever as far as I'm concerned. As far as not taking into consideration the personality of the living robot? All I can say to that is, huh? His Prime and Starscream have loads of personality and to me they look more 'alive' than most of the mainline stuff that comes out. I'd love to see Kawamori's take on other characters. Same here. THS 02 beats MP Prime in my book. It is just so much fun.
Fit For Natalie Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 They look to be from the same sprue that includes the elbow and knee joints as well as possibly the nosecone. The plastic looks slightly different in those areas on MP-3, they dont have the same specularity/highlights of the larger pieces. Maybe they hijacked MP-6's mold, isn't he supposed to use different plastic type for the stress areas? It's possible. Usually if Hasbro or Takara updates a tooling for whatever reason, then both companies will proceed to use the latest version of that tooling. Hence those RID retools of the Car Robots toys being used by Takara for their release of CR in South Korea. Then why did Takara bring him in? I prefer the prototype mold as well (and color ) but they must have wanted him for other reasons than celebrity status - I gather he costs alot. Because (at least in Japan's nerd circles) he's some famous mecha designer? Remember how much Takara absolutely FLOGGED his involvement with THS-02 and MP-03 designs? THS-02 compromised way too much of the truck, though the toy design suffers from scale. If it were the size of most other Prime toys, he'd look better in both modes.
VF5SS Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 I'm glad Shoji Kawamori redid the Masterpiece jets. I expect a toy of such caliber to look like a sleek F-15 and not a plane with junk underneath like almost every other jet Transformer. Looking at you, Classics Jetfire. Also Masterpiece Convoy had a such an awful truck mode it's almost a joke.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 Then why did Takara bring him in? I prefer the prototype mold as well (and color tongue.gif) but they must have wanted him for other reasons than celebrity status - I gather he costs alot. Famous in japan with a reputation, and also on of the designers on the Diaclone toyline, some of the robots he worked on from that line were later repainted as Transformers. The notable ones I remember were Powered Convoy, and maybe Aero Acrobat F-15(which was later used as the basis for the Seeker F-15 trio).
VF5SS Posted November 3, 2007 Posted November 3, 2007 Not mention Shoji Kawamori is well known for being good at designing jets that turn into robots. He did design a little thing called the VF-1 which had inadvertently changed the face of transforming robot design in the 1980's.
Tober Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 Not mention Shoji Kawamori is well known for being good at designing jets that turn into robots. He did design a little thing called the VF-1 which had inadvertently changed the face of transforming robot design in the 1980's. What an informative post for the Macross World forums... [/sarcasm] I just don't seem to remember seeing that many "realistic" green f-15s whilst there are many light grey variations. I don't remember Starscream having tail fins coming from his ass either. The point was that the prototype looked better overall so why was it changed? There was no need for his involvement, the color removes any association with Starscream to the point that it looks more like a Macross mech rather than a sentient Transformer. I liked his involvement in many other projects - I do however own 2 MP-3s so it's not as if I don't like it, it's just that it doesn't look as much like Starscream as the prototype did. I also look forward to the anticipated MP-7 Starscream Animation version.
David Hingtgen Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 I'll second everything Tober said. Takara made an awesome, perfect MP-3 proto/sample before Kawamori got involved. He only delayed the project (and increased its cost) by making changes, and in many people's eyes, either made it not as good as before, or even ruined it.
VF5SS Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 There was no need for his involvement, the color removes any association with Starscream to the point that it looks more like a Macross mech rather than a sentient Transformer. I don't see how a toy can evoke sentience. MP-3 is still a Transformer, if not a very well colored one. If anything, the poses available to a toy can evoke a personality even it isn't a sentient robot design. For example, my Garland is sassy. Actually, having a head and well articulated arms with moving fingers (a pointer finger is the very least you need) goes a long way for giving a toy personality.
Alpha OTS Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 I would have preferred the MP Screamer proto before Kawamori got invoved too. May as well show off some of my latest WST acquisitions.
promethuem5 Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 Alpha, there are MORE WST? I need those! I'd kill for a WST Metroplex too...
dizman Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 Ha I love those wst transformers, too bad the line is pretty much dead. Im hoping that the last 2 dinobots come out soon, I always wanted a mini swoop.
Roy's Blues Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 (edited) Alpha, there are MORE WST? I need those! I'd kill for a WST Metroplex too... That's not Metroplex. It's Fortress Maximus item # 290177748081 linky no worke. Edited November 4, 2007 by Roy's Blues
BoBe-Patt Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 Alpha, there are MORE WST? I need those! I'd kill for a WST Metroplex too... the combiners and fort max are bootlegs. Those were never officially released.
Alpha OTS Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 Alpha, there are MORE WST? I need those! I'd kill for a WST Metroplex too... Most of the WST in that picture aren't official, and the quality varies as a result. Except for the WST Dinobots which are very high quality and even have diecast. I'm really impressed with the dinobots and eagerly await the upcoming Swoop and Sludge. The Fortress Maximus and the gestalts you can find pretty easily on ebay. They all came on similar card backed packaging. They're knockoffs, which is especially obvious if you see the horrible stickers and lopsided sticker placement on them in package, but the quality for the most part is pretty decent for a KO. Maximus was the best of the bunch so far. He's missing all the numerous little accessories that the normal giant sized one has obviously, and unfortunately the head doesn't transform. He looks really good though and the plastic quality and joint strength was good enough that I opted to try the gestalts. The gestalts are a mixed bag, although mostly positive considering the size and that they're a KO. I picked up Devastator(not pictured), Defensor, Bruticus and Superion. I have a Mensor on the way although oddly two of the limbs are technobots. First problem with all of them is that the default stickers are either very gaudy, totally misaligned, or, most often the case, both. I removed almost all of them, especially from the torso bots. Devastator was the best of the bunch as I had no qc issues and the figures are pretty much identical to their normal scale brethren, accessories and all. Defensor, Bruticus and Superion all have some mold changes to accomodate the scale. The limb aerialbots's arms only extend out to the sides. The top and bottom parts of the jets which become the backpacks don't peg together either, so they're easy to knock out of place. Fireflight in particular was kind of gimped. One arm ended up being assembled wrong and snapped off when I tried to re-insert it(I'm intending to fix it proper with some glue), and his front landing gear won't stay pegged in place. It's the type of thing you'd expect from a KO set, and fortunately for me, that was the only figure I had real qc issues with. Despite all that, Superion's one of my favorites. His proportions don't look so off at this scale as they do in his normal scale. I thought they were all worth the price I paid. If you're going to try them, definitely try to find and buy Fortress Maximus first. Spencer at Agesthreeandup.com must agree because he keeps him in stock here. Better pictures of him there too. Agesthreeandup also has two of the dinobots with Snarl being the cheapest price you'll find online($9). The gestalts you'll have to search for on ebay. Here's a Chimungmung auction who regularly sells these things. Although he's since upped his shipping charges. Ramjet is a custom I bought off ebay, and the one I bought came with a custom made G1 box. I assume it's all custom made parts using WST Starscream as the base mold. It's not painted, it's molded in that color. Here's a link to a WST Dirge he sells too here. He doesn't have any up for sale at the moment, but I think he rotates them in as he sells his goods. It's worth emailing him if you're really interested. Quality is very good, and well above KO quality.
promethuem5 Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 Thanks for all the links... I will definetaly be picking up a whole bunch of these... That's not Metroplex. It's Fortress Maximus I know that, I was just saying that along with Fort Max, I would LOVE a Metroplex bc/ he's my fav G1 toy ever.
UN Spacy Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 I'm tempted to clean up my Masterpiece Starscream. Here's Optimus Scourge's from TFW2005. All fresh and crispy.
Valkyrie Hunter D Posted November 4, 2007 Posted November 4, 2007 I'm tempted to clean up my Masterpiece Starscream. Here's Optimus Scourge's from TFW2005. All fresh and crispy. Now how to get that nosecone paint off...
David Hingtgen Posted November 5, 2007 Posted November 5, 2007 Instead of removing the nosecone paint, why not paint it blue to match the tailfins? That'd be semi-canon.
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