Indiana Jones IV

[GobotFool]

'sides, spielberg already pissed off the christians with his jesus redo (ET). I don't think lucas/spielberg would lose much sleep if they further alienated religious conservatives.

The whole ET as jesus thing was alot of people reading to much into that movie methinks. While some of those themes are there, I don't think speilberg said, hrm... I think I'm gonna make a movie about jesus, but make him an alien. His actual inspiration for ET came after making close encounters of the 3rd kind where he asked himself, "What if they left one behind."

[eugimon]

The whole ET as jesus thing was alot of people reading to much into that movie methinks. While some of those themes are there, I don't think speilberg said, hrm... I think I'm gonna make a movie about jesus, but make him an alien. His actual inspiration for ET came after making close encounters of the 3rd kind where he asked himself, "What if they left one behind."

Oh, I agree... I'm just saying... there's a bunch of folk out there who spend a lot of time thinking about stuff like this and they don't like spielberg.

[hutch]

Meh, it wasn't worth it.

Edited February 16, 2008 by hutch

[Sundown]

Having said that, Sundown. . . you can be jewish and yet also an atheist. As I'm sure you're aware, it's both an ethnicity and a religion. So, I really don't see Spielberg being jewish as any type of bar against him making some sort of anti-religious statement in a movie.

Well... true. But I have a hard time imagining that Spielberg, as someone who's also aware that being Jewish is *often*--and traditionally-- both ethnicity and faith, would embrace his heritage and people in Schindler's List and then turn around and alienate many if not most of them by saying, "oh, and by the way, our YWHW's just an alien." He's also not stupid-- the movie would be somewhat distasteful to many. Even The Da Vinci Code's ending left vague room for Jesus' divinity in its half-hearted, vapidly argued, vague attempt to appeal to religious sensibilities after undermining them for two hours. Hah. If anyone talked some sense into Lucas, it would probably be him.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Sundown

[GobotFool]

ummmm yeah indiana jones, whips, hats and stuff. You know, I wouldn't put it past Speilberg to have them all enter the giant temple we see shown in the trailer and find out that the natives worshipped a crashed transformer.

[lord_breetai]

Oh, I agree... I'm just saying... there's a bunch of folk out there who spend a lot of time thinking about stuff like this and they don't like spielberg.

A lot of people have no lives, and a lot of people hate anything with aliens cause that's "ungodly" too.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

It's movies guys. Fictional movies. Tomb Raider had the illuminati, so why can't Indy have some aliens?

I agree with the comment that ET was scary. I was scared too. It's the buggy eyes that look freaky. Spielberg obviously wanted to calm people's fears about alien appearances in the 70s (being one of the most active periods of ufo sightings) so they tried to make the aliens seem cute. Aliens will always be scary. Unless it's like ALF. I thought ALF was ok as a kid.

Edited February 17, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Sumdumgai]

ET scares me. It doesn't help I have a little old ET toy over my desk, staring off into space... with a stump of a left arm because it broke. Sometimes I get afraid it's gonna murder me in my sleep.

I have a couple of the old Indiana Jones action figures. Indiana Jones, and the arab dude with the eyepatch from Raiders.

[Hurin]

It's movies guys. Fictional movies. Tomb Raider had the illuminati, so why can't Indy have some aliens?

Okay. . . it's just movies. So if Kawamori suddenly decided that Dolza was Lucifer and the Zentraedi were demons. . . and then had God himself come down and directly work with the UN Spacy and help them in their war against evil. . . you wouldn't have a problem with that? Cuz it's all just fiction?

I wouldn't have a problem with it on a religious level. . . but it sure would be lame. Most of us are just girding ourselves for whatever retroactive assishness Lucas has in store. If the Ark is revealed to be of alien origin. . . thereby actively f'ing with an already great movie and fundamentally altering it, sorry. . . but that's lame. Of course, this could all be jumping at shadows. But it just seems so much like the kind of crap Lucas likes to pull.

[eugimon]

Okay. . . it's just movies. So if Kawamori suddenly decided that Dolza was Lucifer and the Zentraedi were demons. . . and then had God himself come down and directly work with the UN Spacy and help them in their war against evil. . . you wouldn't have a problem with that? Cuz it's all just fiction?

I wouldn't have a problem with it on a religious level. . . but it sure would be lame. Most of us are just girding ourselves for whatever retroactive assishness Lucas has in store. If the Ark is revealed to be of alien origin. . . thereby actively f'ing with an already great movie and fundamentally altering it, sorry. . . but that's lame. Of course, this could all be jumping at shadows. But it just seems so much like the kind of crap Lucas likes to pull.

you mean like if kawamori suddenly decided that singing songs unlocked a mystical, rainbow colored power that you could use to fly around on rocks and beam valkyries into space?

[kensei]

Okay. . . it's just movies. So if Kawamori suddenly decided that Dolza was Lucifer and the Zentraedi were demons. . . and then had God himself come down and directly work with the UN Spacy and help them in their war against evil. . . you wouldn't have a problem with that? Cuz it's all just fiction?

I wouldn't have a problem with it on a religious level. . . but it sure would be lame. Most of us are just girding ourselves for whatever retroactive assishness Lucas has in store. If the Ark is revealed to be of alien origin. . . thereby actively f'ing with an already great movie and fundamentally altering it, sorry. . . but that's lame. Of course, this could all be jumping at shadows. But it just seems so much like the kind of crap Lucas likes to pull.

Seconded. It just isn't fitting.

[CoryHolmes]

I'll ask it again: where did we get the idea that there would be aliens in this film? I see nothing in that trailer which says "aliens" anywhere.

[hutch]

The Crystal Skull looks pretty "alien" to me. Also, the fact that they're dealing with Area 51 a bit makes people think that.

[Ladic]

there is a picture of the skull, and it is an alien skull.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

@hurin:

lol basara already did that in macross7. God would have no purpose since Basara already singlehandedly saved the galaxy from protodemons. Sorta like asking the flash to save the world when superman has already finished doing it. Macross 7 was popular in japan too. While macross plus is shat upon as a POS just because its a side story and has annoying fighter jocks who act like apefaces. (even though these apefaces were designed that way to show that they are the only ones willing to fly dangerous untested planes that careful people would never want to touch, so are needed despite their reckless attitude)

One thing I've learnt is that you can never be happy trying to convert people to like the things you like, so just let them like what they like. Stargate, and Fifth Element weren't too bad. Is there a rule saying you can't mix a bit of sci-fi with a bit of adventure/mystery? Just like in outlaw star or Vampire Hunter D? Where a bit of occult magic/mysterious ritual/religion is put beside technology/science? If there was an adventure like pirates of the carribean and it was set in space, and involved alien religious artifacts and space pirates all over the galaxy wanted this valuable treasure and bounty hunters all over the galaxy were sent to get it, as well as secret societies and other groups who had plans to gather up all the religious magic items together, I don't think it would automatically suck just because aliens were in it.

In fact I kinda liked the idea in the Doom games of mixing dungeouns with secrets hidden inside walls and devious traps that are set in the floors to kill wanderers, combined with "cyberdemons" and space marines. The demons in that are pretty menacing and scary. And I was ok with the idea in Halo that aliens themselves could be religious and misinterpret their own prophecy and almost kill themselves. But despite those being in a different genre, the adventure themes and mystery is still in there. And the involvement with aliens didn't bother me the slightest. It's actually because of star wars and "the force" (which is a religion itself - vader is seen as an old man clinging to ancient superstitions by the others in the empire) that I can accept a bit of religion mixed with aliens and be ok with it. Others, (like the people who didn't like macross zero due to the mysterious ending and lack of explanation for everything) may find it lame, but I could swallow it since the original series already hinted that aliens and us were similar so maybe the thing that created us and them was a more intelligent race. But on the other hand, when the new bond movie came out where they changed bond into a blond guy, that pissed me off a lot, despite being a small change and the movie being good. hehe I'm going to hold off judgment until it is finished.

Edited February 17, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Hurin]

One thing I've learnt is that you can never be happy trying to convert people to like the things you like,

One thing I've learned is that it takes a certain type of person to drop into threads merely to tell people that they shouldn't care about something. Usually the motivation is to come off as easy-going or "above it all."

lol basara already did that in macross7. God would have no purpose since Basara already singlehandedly saved the galaxy from protodemons. Sorta like asking the flash to save the world when superman has already finished doing it. Macross 7 was popular in japan too. While macross plus is shat upon as a POS just because its a side story and has annoying fighter jocks who act like apefaces. (even though these apefaces were designed that way to show that they are the only ones willing to fly dangerous untested planes that careful people would never want to touch, so are needed despite their reckless attitude)

Totally missing the point. Or intentionally avoiding it. Why the heck would you totally ignore a question and then jump ahead to discuss Macross 7? The point is that Lucas may be retroactively going back and extracting all the religion and mysticism out of the earlier Indy films and injecting sci-fi/aliens. . . decades after the movies were completed. As I pointed out when you merely asserted that nobody should care because it's "fiction". . . this would be analogous to going back and retroactively replacing the Zentraedi with demons and Dolza with the devil. Yet for some reason you think: "Basara already saved the universe in 7" somehow obviates your need to answer the question: Would you not think such a retroactive change was lame? And, by extension: How would you feel if Kawamori did indeed make this retoractive change and --while you were discussing it-- various folks dropped in from time to time only to say: "Calm down. It's just fiction."

Stargate, and Fifth Element weren't too bad. Is there a rule saying you can't mix a bit of sci-fi with a bit of adventure/mystery?

You're (still) missing the point. The Fifth Element and Stargate opened with those premises. That's far different than introducing something twenty years later and retroactively changing an existing film in a fundamental way. If Lucas pulls what some of us anticipate, we'll be watching Raiders twenty years later thinking about how it's all a sham because Lucas now says so. That's lame.

Just like in outlaw star or Vampire Hunter D? Where a bit of occult magic/mysterious ritual/religion is put beside technology/science? If there was an adventure like pirates of the carribean and it was set in space, and involved alien religious artifacts and space pirates all over the galaxy wanted this valuable treasure and bounty hunters all over the galaxy were sent to get it, as well as secret societies and other groups who had plans to gather up all the religious magic items together, I don't think it would automatically suck just because aliens were in it.

Again, missing the point. See above.

In fact I kinda liked the idea in the Doom games of mixing dungeouns with secrets hidden inside walls and devious traps that are set in the floors to kill wanderers, combined with "cyberdemons" and space marines. The demons in that are pretty menacing and scary. And I was ok with the idea in Halo that aliens themselves could be religious and misinterpret their own prophecy and almost kill themselves. But despite those being in a different genre, the adventure themes and mystery is still in there. And the involvement with aliens didn't bother me the slightest. It's actually because of star wars and "the force" (which is a religion itself - vader is seen as an old man clinging to ancient superstitions by the others in the empire) that I can accept a bit of religion mixed with aliens and be ok with it. Others, (like the people who didn't like macross zero due to the mysterious ending and lack of explanation for everything) may find it lame, but I could swallow it since the original series already hinted that aliens and us were similar so maybe the thing that created us and them was a more intelligent race.

Uh. . . okay.

But on the other hand, when the new bond movie came out where they changed bond into a blond guy, that pissed me off a lot, despite being a small change and the movie being good.

So, general ramblings aside. . . your (irrelevant) point is that other movies have mixed genres and introduced sci-fi concepts with religion. Good. But those movies did so from their inception. The point is that Raiders of the Lost Ark did not have these elements in any way shape or form. Nor did the other two. And decades later, Lucas is once again possibly going to f' with things and retroactively make his movies mean something that they never ever meant until the moment (years after completing them) that he shat out some new, craptacular idea.

Your response was essentially: "Who cares? It's just fiction." When I presented you with an analogous change that could be perpetrated on Macross, and asked if you would feel the same way even though Macross is also "just fiction". . . your response was to totally avoid the question. . . and then ramble on with irrelevancies for a few paragraphs.

H

[Sundown]

@low viz

That's why M7 is considered crummy to the many of us. In fact Kawamori has been compared to Lucas more than once around here, for the same reason.

There's no rule that you can't mix sci-fi with mystery, so long as it makes sense and so long as the fiction establishes that it will do so from the get-go. Stargate and X-Files can do that, because it's consistent with their central premises. However, it *is* distasteful to inject sci-fi to a franchise that has delt with religious mysticism for 20 years, and dispel what made it charming and likeable to its fans by explaining it away with sci-fi. That said, I don't think Lucas would do that. He probably thought of it, but saner minds likely prevailed. However, mixing aliens with religious archeology in Indy is still problematic, however, as it actively invites one to question the nature of the artifacts in the first three movies and thus the established framework of their stories, even if Crystal Skulls doesn't explicitly make statements about them.

There's something to be said about surprises and reveals that logically make sense, that in retrospect, you can't believe you didn't arrive at yourself, and that demonstrates its brilliance by all the clues you were given. There should be an "Of course!" moment, and not a "Uh... What the--?!" moment. It's another thing entirely to turn a story on its face just because the creator was tired of telling the type of story he used to tell and the type you wanted to hear, sort of like what Kawamori has done.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

And decades later, Lucas is once again possibly going to f' with things and retroactively make his movies mean something that they never ever meant until the moment (years after completing them) that he shat out some new, craptacular idea.

PT rise of the empire/fall of jedi

OT fall of the empire/a new hope

Both when seen together have a new meaning when compared to only seeing one and that one by itself having its own meaning.

But how can you be so sure that Lucas didn't have all the ideas for all the new stuff we see him adding later floating in his head before he made the OT (but just couldn't include at the time because of budget/time limits?) Are you a mind reader? Maybe he just forgot the stuff he meant to add and is just adding it now? Sorta like what happened to Gollum in the second LOTR movie where they changed his appearance once the newer and better things came along to better match what they really intended? R2D2 still looks the same to me in starwars. C3p0 hasn't changed much. Wookies got a bit of an upgrade in muscle. Yoda isn't glued to the ground. Whatever little changes there are just seem like upgrades. Although I admit I like the old "solo shoots first" version of OT than the new one.

Still don't see what is so bad about aliens in an adventure movie. If he does re-edit all the old movies I'm not saying I'll like them better though. Just that it can still be possible to have a good adventure movie with aliens in it.

It's another thing entirely to turn a story on its face just because the creator was tired of telling the type of story he used to tell and the type you wanted to hear, sort of like what Kawamori has done.

Yeah but sometimes adding stuff can enhance it. Like when a sequel comes out "aliens" for example, you might want to make it more scary or convincing by changing the genre a bit to mix it up. So instead of horror you now have a war movie. They did it with macross already: when they made macross plus the focus wasn't the war, but on the lives of two test pilots for competing companies. That doesn't mean it's suddenly destroyed the very thing that makes macross, macross. Just adding something to the universe. Just as the existence of egg-laying queens in aliens adds something that wasn't there in the original alien movie.

Edited February 18, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Hurin]

PT rise of the empire/fall of jedi

OT fall of the empire/a new hope

Both when seen together have a new meaning when compared to only seeing one and that one by itself having its own meaning.

But how can you be so sure that Lucas didn't have all the ideas for all the new stuff we see him adding later floating in his head before he made the OT (but just couldn't include at the time because of budget/time limits?) Are you a mind reader? Maybe he just forgot the stuff he meant to add and is just adding it now? Sorta like what happened to Gollum in the second LOTR movie where they changed his appearance once the newer and better things came along to better match what they really intended? R2D2 still looks the same to me in starwars. C3p0 hasn't changed much. Wookies got a bit of an upgrade in muscle. Yoda isn't glued to the ground. Whatever little changes there are just seem like upgrades. Although I admit I like the old "solo shoots first" version of OT than the new one.

Still don't see what is so bad about aliens in an adventure movie. If he does re-edit all the old movies I'm not saying I'll like them better though. Just that it can still be possible to have a good adventure movie with aliens in it.

Honestly, at this point, I can't tell if you're being willfully obtuse, intellectually dishonest, or if you're just confused. We're talking about whether Lucas/Spielberg intended the Ark to be an alien device. . . and you suddenly start talking about Star-Wars and Gollum. Meanwhile, probably intentionally, you continue to ignore basic and and pointed questions while going off on more bizarre, irrelevant tangents.

Then, you say yet again:

Still don't see what is so bad about aliens in an adventure movie

. . . as though anyone else has said there is anything wrong with "aliens in an adventure movie." Seriously man, what's up? Nobody thinks aliens can't be in an adventure movie. At this point, all I can assume is that you're setting up straw men because you don't want to actually address what others are actually saying.

But, for the record, you don't need to be a "mind reader" to see the modern influences on the PT vs the OT as well as the inconsistencies between them. Though, since that's largely irrelevant to both this discussion and this thread, and has been discussed to death in other threads on these very forums, I suggest we leave that alone.

Yeah but sometimes adding stuff can enhance it. Like when a sequel comes out "aliens" for example, you might want to make it more scary or convincing by changing the genre a bit to mix it up. So instead of horror you now have a war movie.

Dude, try to join us in the conversation we're actually having rather than the one you seem to be having with yourself in your head. There is a world of difference between adding a "war movie" element to a sequel. . . and fundamentally changing the nature of things retroactively. You don't seem to be able to follow these analogies very well. . . but I'm going to try again: In the case of Alien, the analogy would be Ridley Scott coming back to make Alien XII and making it in such a way that we find out that the "Aliens" are actually devils sent by Satan. . . or robots. . .

That doesn't mean it's suddenly destroyed the very thing that makes macross, macross. Just adding something to the universe. Just as the existence of egg-laying queens in aliens adds something that wasn't there in the original alien movie.

Dude. . . dude. . . wtf? It's like you have no sense of degree or nuance at all. Equating the adding of some details regarding how the established aliens reproduce in a sci-fi movie series entitled Aliens to the introduction of extraterrestrials into the Indy films (and possibly even retroactively to even prior ones) is like comparing an apple to a freakin' aircraft carrier.

Anyways, I'm still just waiting for a basic answer to the following basic question. The rest has just been random nonsense and avoidance of it:

So if Kawamori suddenly decided that Dolza was Lucifer and the Zentraedi were demons. . . and then had God himself come down and directly work with the UN Spacy and help them in their war against evil. . . you wouldn't have a problem with that? Cuz it's all just fiction?

H

[Sundown]

Hurin = me. Except with moderating power and a greater predilection to bite your face off.

Also, ideas one has kicking around and would actually fit into the storytelling tend to leave traces of themselves for people to find. If those ideas become jarring to fans when they are revealed, it either suggests that the author didn't have those ideas at the time or that he is a poor storyteller. In either case, it does not fit or work well with the story already told.

One of my favorite authors, C.S. Lewis, in republishing some of his writings in later life, deliberately avoided changing parts of it even though his thought was more developed later on. Granted, this is non-fiction we're talking about, but he does show respect for a body of work even though it is his own, and recognizes that his work represents where he was in mind and thought at the time he wrote it.

Making The Ark an alien artifact would be equivalent to Tolkien adding a new installment to The Lord of The Rings 20 years later, revealing that Middle Earth was actually the future, that magic was just advanced nano-technology, that mystical beasts were actually just bioengineered creatures from the 23rd century before nuclear war reduced the world to a state and apparence much like medieval Europe, and created "races" like hobbits and dwarves through widespread genetic mutations and deformities identical to what we know as dwarvism and midgets today. Oh, and the elves were just Star Trek Vulcans, who, concerned with the plight of post-apocalyptic humanity, settled on earth to restore civilization and help man in limited ways, following the Prime Directive, by adopting their dress and culture. This also explains their long lifespans. When they sailed off to that place reserved only for elves at the Trilogy's end, they were actually flying in starships back to Vulcan now that their work was done.

No, you're not meant to think that this would actually be a fitting sequal to the Rings Trilogy. If anyone thinks so, then we don't have much more to discuss. =P

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

So if Kawamori suddenly decided that Dolza was Lucifer and the Zentraedi were demons. . . and then had God himself come down and directly work with the UN Spacy and help them in their war against evil. . . you wouldn't have a problem with that? Cuz it's all just fiction?

What came first the chicken or the egg? The xenomorph in alien didn't have a queen we could see, just eggs. Does that mean we can assume they just don't exist because they weren't thought up yet for the first movie? That nothing can exist outside the first movie/s? That's the point I'm trying to get at. Some movies can add stuff that enhances, other times it can wreck a movie and make it more lame. If they added a scene in the first alien of a queen it wouldn't bother me too much.

Hurin: people were worried that the story would go down the path of an xfiles movie because of the look of the crystal skull which looked alien. So that's where I made the alien comment, for those who were worried that aliens = movie will suck. No guarantee it won't but doesn't mean it automatically has to suck either.

To answer your question: no it would be lamer than if they were just macronised PC, but if the PC had a religion and a god that created them I'd be ok with that. Just like any other race within the humans side with its own belief systems that are unique to it. A demonically-possessed race of zentradi actually sounds pretty cool as a side story but not if the whole race were demons and that was the only focus of the macross shows. We already saw what the demons are in macross 7. Exedol enters some ancient ruins of the PC that describes their history, the protodevlin are descrbie as being like the devil. In the form of 'evil' weapons, we can see the intent of the leaders who created them, because they were not happy with what they already had, and later some living things possess the weapons/soldiers, and the weapons turn against their makers. So kawamori did have something similar to what you describe, and in a sense, you could say Basara is a type of messiah who saves the demons from themselves and heals the sick/diseased/possessed zombies/lepers with his music that brings them back to normal using non-violent methods that doesn't taint his message and make him look like a hypocrite, choosing instead to lead by example.

In the original tv series the zentradi already are familiar with a "satan" and exedol even refers to himself and the zentradi as "Satan's dolls". They are like a plague going to other planets and wiping out anything that gets in their way and only know how to destroy. Just like a 'demon' bringing about death and destroying the planets the native people rely on to feed off to live.

The messiah is the main hero in the valkyrie taking on the responsibility to protect people rather than being a selfish kid, and it's in minmay's song that you can see kaifun (in the kung fu movie) and hikaru (in a valkyrie) as being a hero with a type of cleansing fire (using the battroid as the weapons in place of a sword or the magic finger that fires lightning that you see in the kung fu movie) to kill the mythical (ie Goliath) giants.

Macross zero even depicts a pc god: it's the birdman which the older generations warned about in their stories that could bring about the extinction of man if all the rigid rules are broken by the generations that are coming after them who have a responsibility to keep a secret. Obviously Sara is partly to blame for accepting a bribe that led to the scientists discovering some info that helped lead them to the island and then bring about the destruction of her people's land, and we see why this rule was put there and the effect her failure to pass her father's test, has on the rest of the islanders when the anti-un and un fight for more power, to get the weapon for themselves. Just like the PC who created the 'evil' weapon series and weren't happy with the weapons they already had, and who wanted even more powerful stuff. Kawamori has already put god and demons in the macross universe. It's inside the people themselves, and the everyday actions and decisions they chose to make, in the failures and triumphs in their personal lives which can either lead to suffering or happiness to all the others they affect with those decisions. The aliens may not be the literal demon, but taken from a spiritual point of view: they are possessed by the will/need to go and kill things so they could think of themselves that way: as being possessed by evil intent. Demons killing things as away of life. And so they (or just Exedor if you prefer) refer to themselves as "satan's little puppet" carrying out his work for him.

Edited February 18, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[eugimon]

this is the funniest thread/exchange I've read in a LONG time. Thanks guys!

I have to agree with Hurin on this though. There's an established set of rules governing the indiana jones movies. That is, as viewers, we have all accepted a certain level of logic and consistancy. Namely, there are mystical/spiritual forces in the world and humans can influence or are influenced by them.

Now, if Lucas merely introduces aliens... that's a bit left field. It really doesn't tie in thematically with the previous movies nor does it really have anything to do with the character of indiana jones. It would be a shame if the last Indiana Jones movies goes out in such a manner... it's kind of like if Rocky Balboa was about Rocky's desire to become the best ballet dancer. Sure we would go through all the motions... rocky coming to gripes with the loss of adrian, we would still get a training montage and we would get a physical showdown at the end of the movie where Rocky performs the ballet... but it wouldn't be true or consistant to the character or the franchise. Similarly, if this movie is about aliens, we have all the same notes, Indie fighting shadowy government officials, indie exploring dark and spooky environments, indie discovering something most people don't think of as real... but it just would not be true to the character or the franchise. This sort of plot belongs in a different movie... Now, if lucas goes further to suggest or explicitly state that previous instances of mystical occurances were merely the result of alien influences... well, that changes everything and it directly contradicts the implicit rules that were set down in the movies and TV show.

Edited February 18, 2008 by eugimon

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

But didn't spielberg put aliens at the end of AI? Lucas can't be the only one guilty of it. (and yes I realise that's not the point you were making hurin, just saying that "what if the aliens were only in this one but not responsible for stuff in other movies?"..since some people are turned off by the aliens themselves)

Edited February 18, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[eugimon]

But didn't spielberg put aliens at the end of AI? Lucas can't be the only one guilty of it. (and yes I realise that's not the point you were making hurin, just saying that "what if the aliens were only in this one but not responsible for stuff in other movies?"..since some people are turned off by the aliens themselves)

so what if he did? We're not talking about AI (which had it's own problems), we're not talking about some one-off story where you suddenly find out bruce willis is dead or something... we're talking about an established franchise that has been following its own internal logic through three movies, a TV show and a couple of computer games.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Whoops I just realised that they weren't aliens in AI but robots (that happen to look like the ones in close encounters). That just got me thinking: Maybe the alien looking skull isn't going to be alien in origin?

Edited February 18, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[eugimon]

Whoops I just realised that they weren't aliens in AI but robots (that happen to look like the ones in close encounters). That just got me thinking: Maybe the alien looking skull isn't going to be alien in origin?

yeah, I'm really hoping the alien thing is a red herring and just a nod to all the area 51 stuff.

[Hurin]

Hurin = me. Except with moderating power and a greater predilection to bite your face off.

Those two are not related, however. I've been known to bite faces off before I was ever an admin/moderator. Though I do not think that I do so unless it is warranted.

For the record, as I think I've demonstrated in the past, I'm happy to have a conversation, a disagreement, or even a spirited argument. . . as long as both sides are doing their best to understand the other instead of (intetionally?) obfuscating, setting up straw men, and ignoring inconvenient points and questions.

No, you're not meant to think that this would actually be a fitting sequal to the Rings Trilogy. If anyone thinks so, then we don't have much more to discuss. =P

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel too. I'm not sure if he's honestly doesn't get the distinction, or he actually thinks that there would be nothing "wrong" with it. Either way, I'm not sure I'm up to continuing the conversation. Thus far, it's been both exhausting and unnerving.

[Dr. Z]

A movie is just that, a movie. Enjoy and don't overthink it.

[Hurin]

A movie is just that, a movie. Enjoy and don't overthink it.

I hope someone often drops by conversations you're having about things that matter to you only to say: "it's just an x."

For the life of me, I don't understand why people bother to drop by conversations that obviously matter to some merely to assert that it shouldn't matter to them. I don't know if it's about people wanting to feel "cool" or "above it all". . . but it sure is one of those quintessential internet behaviors: When you don't have anything to say, but you want to say something. . . just drop by a topic that doesn't interest you only to announce that it doesn't interest you. . . and then (either directly or indirectly) demean those to whom the topic matters.

For the record, this is where I got started with Low-Viz too.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Well to be fair to us this is an "anime or science fiction" section of a science fiction fan site.

And it does have "alien skulls" in it. Maybe we just want to see the quality of the alien skull and comment on it? I just thought it was a bit unfair to dismiss the movie just because of an alien looking skull. What if it's just the skull of a ancient religious leader who had a deformed head and was super intelligent? (like exedor from macross?) So many possibilities. And even if it was aliens, it still fits into that supernatural/mysterious theme to some people. It doesn't mean indiana jones is necessarily going all science fiction on us if that is what people are scared of. (no guarantee it won't, but I'm just saying..) There may be other crystal skulls that are human-looking and you only saw a small portion of the whole thing. So it might be better to withhold judgment until you know more, that's all.

Edited February 18, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[eugimon]

Well to be fair to us this is an anime or science fiction section of a science fiction fan site.

And it does have "alien skulls" in it. Maybe we just want to see the quality of the alien skull and comment on it. Why does everyone hate aliens?

good god. No one hates aliens. Look... simple:

aliens = good

Indiana Jones = good

Indiana Jones + Aliens = BAD.

[Hurin]

Well to be fair to us this is an "anime or science fiction" section of a science fiction fan site.

And it does have "alien skulls" in it. Maybe we just want to see the quality of the alien skull and comment on it? I just thought it was a bit unfair to dismiss the movie just because of an alien looking skull. What if it's just the skull of a ancient religious leader who had a deformed head and was super intelligent? (like exedor from macross?) So many possibilities. And even if it was aliens, it still fits into that supernatural/mysterious theme to some people. It doesn't mean indiana jones is necessarily going all science fiction on us if that is what people are scared of. (no guarantee it won't, but I'm just saying..) There may be other crystal skulls that are human-looking and you only saw a small portion of the whole thing. So it might be better to withhold judgment until you know more, that's all.

That's it. I officially give up. It's like you comment on what you wish people were saying instead of what they actually are saying.

[kensei]

good god. No one hates aliens. Look... simple:

aliens = good

Indiana Jones = good

Indiana Jones + Aliens = BAD.

Yup. You'll never understand what I went through when Herge intro aliens into TinTin.

[EXO]

I hope someone often drops by conversations you're having about things that matter to you only to say: "it's just an x."

For the life of me, I don't understand why people bother to drop by conversations that obviously matter to some merely to assert that it shouldn't matter to them. I don't know if it's about people wanting to feel "cool" or "above it all". . . but it sure is one of those quintessential internet behaviors: When you don't have anything to say, but you want to say something. . . just drop by a topic that doesn't interest you only to announce that it doesn't interest you. . . and then (either directly or indirectly) demean those to whom the topic matters.

For the record, this is where I got started with Low-Viz too.

I'm probably not gonna see it.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Indiana Jones + Aliens = BAD.

Well I personally find the subject of alien-shaped skulls a fascinating subject because I've heard from friends aliens will be involved. So that's partly what made me come into the thread. I'm not trying to piss people off.

Ok so the breaking of rules is bad for indy, but what if on its own merit the movie turns out good? Just not good for the indy franchise? Would you still watch it?

Edited February 18, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker