Indiana Jones IV

[CoryHolmes]

This looks to be a great deal of fun

[Hurin]

HD trailer is out.

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/indianajon...3g1GC6bw55fVXcA

There's links to the original trailers for Raiders there too. Pretty cool. Strangely, I don't see any slapstick or attempts at humor. Odd. It's almost as if the filmmakers had a different sensibility and traget audience back then.

Edit: Wow. . . compare the trailer for Raiders with the trailer for Last Crusade. Now, actually, I don't think the trailer for Raiders makes it look particularly good and its style is dated. But note that it's not trying to be funny in any way but is instead chracterized as a gritty adventure. Not so for the Crusade trailer which pretty quickly develops a campy "family fun" tone.

Edit 2: If I seem to be a bit pointed here, it's because that nearly every time Lucas comes up, a certain type of fan always appears that considers any criticizm to be the whinings of hyper-critical fanboys and some even go so far as to bizarrely assert that there is no real difference in tone or cinematic sensibility between early Star Wars/Indy films, and the latter ones. . . and that any perceived differences are the effect of nostalgia. I've got no problem with anyone's personal tastes in movies. But if someone's so very undiscerning that they actually believe that there's just no appreciable difference (it's been said in other threads). . . well. . . I can't really respect their taste in film. . . just as they tend to dismiss mine as the rantings of an angry fanboy who is "dead inside." Forgive me if I have a problem seeing people swallow crap and singing its praises merely because it arrived in the same packaging as the ambrosia to which they originally became accustomed.

Having said all that, I have no real hope that this movie won't be horribly undermined by inept attempts at humor and "comic relief" in the Lucas style. Though, in this case, where I of course went out and saw all the SW prequels, I'll have to wait for Netflix to see if I'll be pleasantly surprised here.

H

[dizman]

Look at all those cg images, IT BURNS US! Ah well, It wasnt as bad as I was expecting it but that truck scene was a bit stupid, not like classic Indi at all. I'm still sticking by my theory of neo-nazis being the ultimate bad guys but Russians could be it too. Finally was that the warehouse from Raiders, looked eerily like it.

[Vermillion21]

I'm excited to see this film .... if it meets my B+ popcorn action flick expectations, I'll be happy.

[bob joe mac]

lol I'm very excited and have high hopes to no end. I hope I'm not crushed

[Jolly Rogers]

Apparently we got the censored version... I've always wondered why was there a US flag covering the screen in that trailer.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/35630

[Mr March]

Is this about the CG censoring? Yeah, I heard. What a sad state.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Mr March

[vermillion01]

yes.. i watched the trailer off the movies own website, and as i'm in the UK... i saw a big US flag...

sorry guys, i have to say i cringed...

Edited February 15, 2008 by vermillion01

[Hurin]

yes.. i watched the trailer off the movies own website, and as i'm in the UK... i saw a big US flag...

sorry guys, i have to say i cringed...

Why cringe? It seems to me that the "enemy" in this movie will be some rogue hyper-patriotic right-wing nutjobs who have taken over part of the U.S. Army and/or government. It would fit in with recent Lucas "subtle political messages .'

[vermillion01]

Sorry... it just seems that soo many american movies recently have to have a big american flag plastered up somewhere... as a non american, it often comes across as 'america loves itself' a little too much... and its not like americans need reminding what country they're in or anything. I just find excessive.

i'll shut up now... i dont want to get into any political debates or anything.

Sorry if i caused offense

[Sundown]

Edit: Wow. . . compare the trailer for Raiders with the trailer for Last Crusade. Now, actually, I don't think the trailer for Raiders makes it look particularly good and its style is dated. But note that it's not trying to be funny in any way but is instead chracterized as a gritty adventure. Not so for the Crusade trailer which pretty quickly develops a campy "family fun" tone.

On the plus side, the Crystal Skull trailer is much more serious than the Last Crusade's. It's even a bit more tolerable than Doom's. I'm mainly worried that the comedic moments they showed were really the best they had to offer, and that the aliens angle is mishandled and forces a reinterpretation of the original movies. I vainly hope aliens are merely a red herring and instead of a Chariot of the Gods angle, it somehow goes the other way around, and we start with aliens but end up with good old fashioned mythology. I doubt that'll happen though.

And in context of the trailer, featuring USAF agents and Roswell, the American flag was actually kind of ominous. I cringed for the exact opposite reason that some stated-- it seemed almost cynically displayed, and seemed to reflect the popular trend and American past time of deriding America as a means of loving her that I'm peronally a tad weary of. I could be reading too much into this. But it's interesting that seeing the American flag elicits from non-Americans the immediate reaction it does even when the filmmakers are portraying it in a neutral or cynical context, and are using it in an ironic manner and intent that they might actually agree with.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Sundown

[eugimon]

Sorry... it just seems that soo many american movies recently have to have a big american flag plastered up somewhere... as a non american, it often comes across as 'america loves itself' a little too much... and its not like americans need reminding what country they're in or anything. I just find excessive.

i'll shut up now... i dont want to get into any political debates or anything.

Sorry if i caused offense

I'll agree in general with your post, but indy has always been a pretty america-centric character. I wouldn't characterize him as a flag waving jingoist, since the movies do take some rather pointed swipes at government and beauracracy...

[Sumdumgai]

I cringed at the big ole American flag plastered all over the screen. I don't need to see it flashed all the time. I get what you're saying vermillion.

I thought there were some weird things with the trailer. The gun thing originally made me go "huh?". Guess I know why now.

I'm still looking forward to this movie. I just hope Lucas doesn't ruin it, and that Shia Labouef can carry his part.

[GobotFool]

yes.. i watched the trailer off the movies own website, and as i'm in the UK... i saw a big US flag...

sorry guys, i have to say i cringed...

Why? Indiana as a character is an American after all. It is an American Film franchise. I don't cringe when I watch Dr Who and I see a UK flag displayed prominently, or if I’m watching a German movie with a prominent image of a German flag.

I understand to a degree that an excess of nationalistic imagery can be irritating, and US movies can go over the top, but I see plenty of national symbols used in non-us media that I just accept such imagery as a product of the culture/country that produced the flick.

Edited: for posibly to much political commentary.

Edited February 15, 2008 by GobotFool

[vermillion01]

Um... like i said.. i dont think this is the place to get into any politcal debates.....

so... how about those crystal skulls huh... ooooh shiney....

[Sundown]

I certainly see where your coming at from this angle, but in the context of Indianna Jones, and alot of other movies that use the flag ironically, I still find the hero who is fighting the guys wrapped in the flag to embody alot of what I'd consider positive American traits (Indiana Jones, being an icon of american rugged individualism.)

Oh, I totally agree. Usually the "hero" is a truer representation of America and her values than those who hide under the banner of the flag.

[Hurin]

I'm with Sundown on this. When you see the hero of a film being accosted by American soldiers immediately after the American flag is bombastically splayed across the screen, it's a pretty safe bet that this will be more classic Hollywood "Good Americans dislike/mistrust/doubt America" stuff that makes those who subscribe to it feel oh-so-enlightened. Based on recent Lucas political undertones, I think it's likely. It's sorta amazing that, ham-fisted as his political "undertones" tend to be, they still go over the heads of some and instead we get "Gah! Showing your flag is bad!" even as the filmmaker (probably) is making the same point.

But, yeah, we should probably start steering away from the political angle. I will say this. . . if it turns out that Lucas has attributed all the supernatural events in the prior films to alien technology. . . wow. . .

I wouldn't put it past him. He went out of his way to retroactively take all the mysticism out of the Force in Star Wars via the prequels. Perhaps because of a new anti-religious leaning that he's developed later in life? Spielberg removed the guns from E.T. . . perhaps because of a new anti-gun political leaning he developed later in life? So, I really wouldn't put it past them to retroactively remove religion from their prior movies and turn Raiders retroactively into Raiders of the Lost Alien Face Melting Device. Seriously, I can see it happening. . . it's the sort of thing that Lucas would consider "clever" and a mind-f*cking plot twist even though Star Trek did it via "Who Mourns For Adonis" in the 60s.

[GobotFool]

Sorry... it just seems that soo many american movies recently have to have a big american flag plastered up somewhere... as a non american, it often comes across as 'america loves itself' a little too much... and its not like americans need reminding what country they're in or anything. I just find excessive.

i'll shut up now... i dont want to get into any political debates or anything.

Sorry if i caused offense

No offense taken.

Um... like i said.. i dont think this is the place to get into any politcal debates.....

so... how about those crystal skulls huh... ooooh shiney....

I actually enjoy this kind of debate and think it's an important discussion. However, most humans, and this goes for everyone across the poltical spectrum, have such a hard time keeping calm while discussing politics that the debate almost always degenerate into some kind of mud slinging contest, drowning out the important issues in all the noise.

But yeah, as you said, this is macrossworld and lets go back to talking about Krystal Skulls, and how Lucas and Speilberg are raping our childhoods.

[Hurin]

I actually enjoy this kind of debate and think it's an important discussion.

It's not an important discussion to have here.

[GobotFool]

It's not an important discussion to have here.

Which is why I said, lets get back to talking about how lucas and speilberg are raping out childhood memories.

Anyway back to the trailer. Some people have seriously sharp eyes. I wasn't really paying attention to the CG pants or shirt pocket 1st time around. I see it now that it has been mentioned. I dunno about it being some kind of anti-gun, someone think of the children thing (considering there are still plenty of guns in the background, why if it was an anti-gun thing not replace them with walkie-talkies? ). I suspects its more of a, "We didn't want anything obstructing the view of Indiana in his 1st big screen shot in almost 2 decades thing and they just badly removed the things obstructing the view.

Edit: I take the above back. I looked at the frame again and can see alot of things were removed that were not obstructing the characters after looking at the comparison shots. Looks like it is 100% and MPAA thing.

Edited February 15, 2008 by GobotFool

[Sundown]

But, yeah, we should probably start steering away from the political angle. I will say this. . . if it turns out that Lucas has attributed all the supernatural events in the prior films to alien technology. . . wow. . .

There's quite a bit of speculative "archeology" that reinterprets all the mysticism of ancient religions as being the result of alien encounters. Peruvian culture and the tradition of elogating heads are speculated by believers to be the Peruvian attempts at imitating their alien "gods". Most of this is pretty baseless and creative speculation. Crystal skulls are also connected to past Peruvian civilizations, and boast powers and knowledge of all kinds, although these skulls seem to be recently made fakes. Lucas is obsessed with the topic of crystal skulls-- hence the movie. I think it may have been better if they had picked a mystical artifact steeped in older lore, rather than one made prominent by hoaxes and a more recent obsession.

I wouldn't put it past him. He went out of his way to retroactively take all the mysticism out of the Force in Star Wars via the prequels. Perhaps because of a new anti-religious leaning that he's developed later in life? Spielberg removed the guns from E.T. . . perhaps because of a new anti-gun political leaning he developed later in life? So, I really wouldn't put it past them to retroactively remove religion from their prior movies and turn Raiders retroactively into Raiders of the Lost Alien Face Melting Device. Seriously, I can see it happening. . . it's the sort of thing that Lucas would consider "clever" and a mind-f*cking plot twist even though Star Trek did it via "Who Mourns For Adonis" in the 60s.

I think Lucas just developed an anti-cool leaning later in life. But for what it's worth the Ark of the Covenant *has* been reinterpreted by some to be an extraterrestrial radio. It wouldn't haven been difficult to do what you describe, as much of the groundwork has already been done. He did mention "going back and taking out the more offensive parts" of his original concept for Skulls when Spielberg and Ford caved and agreed to go with his idea-- so maybe that was what he was referring to: "God" was just a Zeta Reticulan and "The Ark of the Covenant" was just an alien holographic entertainment center/microwave that the Nazis accidentally turned on and melted their faces off with.

[lord_breetai]

So, I really wouldn't put it past them to retroactively remove religion from their prior movies and turn Raiders retroactively into Raiders of the Lost Alien Face Melting Device.

Really, cause you know that would piss off every Christian and Jewish fan of the series... I don't see him doing it, even if he wants aliens in this one it's totally uncalled for.

[GobotFool]

There's quite a bit of speculative "archeology" that reinterprets all the mysticism of ancient religions as being the result of alien encounters. Peruvian culture and the tradition of elogating heads are speculated by believers to be the Peruvian attempts at imitating their alien "gods". Most of this is pretty baseless and creative speculation.

There is a famous, I think Aztec carving, that people often interpret as some kind of alien spaceship. Truth is it's just a collection of relious imagery that most archeologists familar with Aztec culture are familiar with, but the modern person, unfamilar with any of the symbols, tends to recode these images into into a spaceship. There is a really funny website debunking most UFOlogists intepretation of aliens in art that you can find here.

http://sprezzatura.it/Arte/Arte_UFO_eng.htm

I really wish Hollywood would drop the whole, well the gods were just aliens angle. If the head honcho alien in this movie turns out to be named Xenu I think I might just have to kill someone.

Edited February 15, 2008 by GobotFool

[lord_breetai]

I really wish Hollywood would drop the whole, well the gods were just aliens angle. If the head honcho alien in this movie turns out to be named Xenu I think I might just have to kill someone.

I don't mind that spin, it works well for scifi shows like Stargate, but shouldn't be dumped into Indiana Jones... which foccused on Hitler's obsession with supernatural artifacts and took it to a level, but what if they actually found those artifacts and one lone hero stood in their way... that was cool, to retroactively make them alien artifacts would be nothing short of lame.

The trailer does say, "he protected the power of the devine" though... so hopefully that was still the biblical Ark of the Covenant unless devine is the name of the alien race... or the trailer is just trying to throw us off.

[GobotFool]

But for what it's worth the Ark of the Covenant *has* been reinterpreted by some to be an extraterrestrial radio. It wouldn't haven been difficult to do what you describe, as much of the groundwork has already been done.

Well crud, that explains why the scene in the trailer looks like it takes place in the warehouse the ark is hidden in. Indy needs it to phone god, aka Xenu and ask him to stop beaming his signals into L. Ron Hubbards head.

[Sundown]

Anyway, since Hurin brought up Last Crusade, I didn't find *all* of the humor bad for the tone of the movie per se-- but *was* very bothered that parts of the plot and believability was sacrificed for gags. Certain scenes were non-sensical to me, the ham-fisted usage of humor killed much of the pacing, and Brody made it almost impossible to take the movie seriously, even as a family-friendly romp. I think The Goonies might have been more coherent. My dissapointment with Last Crusade might also have been due to me playing the Lucasarts game first-- which actually did a much better and more comprehensive job storytelling wise. It was much more evenhanded with the gags-- most of them were moderately clever-- and I found myself wishing the movie was more like the game. That doesn't usually happen.

[Hurin]

Really, cause you know that would piss off every Christian and Jewish fan of the series... I don't see him doing it, even if he wants aliens in this one it's totally uncalled for.

You say that as though it would be something Lucas/Spielberg would want to avoid.

it works well for scifi shows like Stargate, but shouldn't be dumped into Indiana Jones... which foccused on Hitler's obsession with supernatural artifacts

And Star Wars was about a Galactic Civil War and the coming of age of the Last Jedi. . . until Lucas a decade or two later decided to just assert that it was always about Anakin/Vader and the Force is easily explained by microbes in the blood.

He gets off on "twisting" things and retroactively altering the meaning of what's been in the can for decades. I think he confuses doing so with real creativity.

[CoryHolmes]

Where did this whole "aliens in Indy" angle come from?

[Hurin]

Where did this whole "aliens in Indy" angle come from?

Ask George.

[CoryHolmes]

Ask George.

No, I mean where did the fans get the idea that aliens would be in this film?

[eugimon]

You say that as though it would be something Lucas/Spielberg would want to avoid.

And Star Wars was about a Galactic Civil War and the coming of age of the Last Jedi. . . until Lucas a decade or two later decided to just assert that it was always about Anakin/Vader and the Force is easily explained by microbes in the blood.

He gets off on "twisting" things and retroactively altering the meaning of what's been in the can for decades. I think he confuses doing so with real creativity.

'sides, spielberg already pissed off the christians with his jesus redo (ET). I don't think lucas/spielberg would lose much sleep if they further alienated religious conservatives.

[Sundown]

'sides, spielberg already pissed off the christians with his jesus redo (ET). I don't think lucas/spielberg would lose much sleep if they further alienated religious conservatives.

I wasn't aware I was supposed to be pissed off at ET. I just knew I was supposed to find him/it adorable, when in fact I found him horrifying. And I don't think Spielberg is that anxious to piss off Jewish folks, seeing as he's one. After all he did make Schindler's list.

[Hurin]

I wasn't aware I was supposed to be pissed off at ET. I just knew I was supposed to find him/it adorable, when in fact I found him horrifying. And I don't think Spielberg is that anxious to piss off Jewish folks, seeing as he's one. After all he did make Schindler's list.

Yeah, I don't recall E.T. making me think about Jesus or God. . . or religion at all.

Having said that, Sundown. . . you can be jewish and yet also an atheist. As I'm sure you're aware, it's both an ethnicity and a religion. So, I really don't see Spielberg being jewish as any type of bar against him making some sort of anti-religious statement in a movie.

[GobotFool]

I wasn't aware I was supposed to be pissed off at ET. I just knew I was supposed to find him/it adorable, when in fact I found him horrifying.

You too!?! ET scared me as a kid. He still does.

[eugimon]

I wasn't aware I was supposed to be pissed off at ET. I just knew I was supposed to find him/it adorable, when in fact I found him horrifying. And I don't think Spielberg is that anxious to piss off Jewish folks, seeing as he's one. After all he did make Schindler's list.

well, a lot of the more conservative christian folk didn't take kindly to ET since it parallels the jesus story... lost son, teaches people to be nice, gets a band of followers, persecuted by the establishment, able to heal and do "miracles", dies, comes back to life, leaves but tells people that he'll come back....

And a lot of the more militant Jewish folk and the segment of christian who are pre-israel... were pretty pissed about Munich, and spielberg's portrayl of the terrorists.

Spielberg in general, gets a lot of flak from older, conservative folk. He's made comments that Castro was the smartest man he ever met and such... such talk doesn't go over well with some people.

Edited February 16, 2008 by eugimon