High Definition Media & Technology Thread

[Wes]

Just as I was gonna buy the Onkyo TX-SR605...

TX-SR606

I think those are the only differences between the two. MSRP is 599.00 but I've seen it for 449.00-499.00. Should be out soon.

It's out now. I don't think it does all the audio codecs that the 700+ series do. and the 05's are getting cleared out, so you can get a them for half off. Another thing to consider. I think the 1080i upscaling won't be a big factor myself.

[eugimon]

So... my 360 and PS3 can both read .mp4 files if they're off of a memory card, but they won't stream it from my NAS... wtf?

[jwinges]

So... my 360 and PS3 can both read .mp4 files if they're off of a memory card, but they won't stream it from my NAS... wtf?

Will it read them off a DVD? I've tried and can't get them to work or if they do the subtitles won't come up.

[eugimon]

Will it read them off a DVD? I've tried and can't get them to work or if they do the subtitles won't come up.

haven't tried off a DVD, just a USB memory stick. The 360 sees and plays them just fine but the PS3 won't see them, I need to do: trianle, see all to see the files and then it will play them. I've only tried the aia iz macross frontier files and they play fine, subtitles included.

[VT 1010]

Not the 1080i/p vs 720p thing again. Resolution is one of the least important aspects of a good display. Contrast, color accuracy, deinterlacing, image processing or lack thereof, etc. are more important to consider than resolution. The difference between 720p and 1080i/p isn't very noticeable, unless you sit relatively close to a big screen. Most people, at your average seating distance, won't notice much of a difference. I'll take a newer 720p Pioneer plasma over any 1080p LCD.

The only way you can appreciate a 1080p display is with a 1080p signal. Unless you sending it a 1080p signal, there is no difference between a 1080p and a 1080i display (there can be difference in deinterlacing the 1080i signal, though). There is also the issue of how the display handles the various framerates as well, but I'll discuss that later.

Edited April 27, 2008 by VT 1010

[David Hingtgen]

I must preface this by saying I totally agree that contrast, color, processing, decoding, etc are all other important aspects---resolution could actually be the least important aspect. If resolution was THAT important, then the cheapest house-brand 720p TV would be just as good as the best Sony 720p XBR. But they're certainly not--it's all about contrast, color, response, etc. I'd rather have a really good 720 than a mediocre 1080. Part of the reason I really liked the Samsung 720p from last year over the Sharp 1080p of last year, though I know both were being fed (through a half-dozen splitters) 1080i when I viewed them together. Samsung's COLOR (and just overall "feel") blew away the Sharp. That said:

Every single argument about 720 vs 1080 always says "unless you're close to a big screen"---and never give numbers. Or if they do, they're WAY outside of what I'm planning. They say stuff like "only if the screen is 50in at less than 8 feet".

I'm doing 32in screen, 48in viewing distance. That's set in stone. And actually, at that close range, it's right at the "full benefit of 1080p is visible" line (attached) 48in is WAY closer than 99% of people talk about/consider, because they're always talking about putting a 50+in plasma at the opposite end of the living room. My TV is going to go on my nightstand next to my bed---WAY closer than most people's HDTV's. (Which is why even 32in is kinda big)

(though I am REALLY close to getting the LN32A450 regardless--it just dropped 50 bucks this week, and the A550 still shows no signs of being at mass-market)

(of course, at this range, if I push the TV back another foot, which is certainly possible--I won't know the EXACT viewing distance until I actually have it and can position/measure the stand base in 3D---it'd be a 5ft viewing distance, which just barely clears "1080p just starts to become noticeable"

[Gaijin]

32" is fine for the bedroom (I have a Panny TC-LX3260 which I nabbed last year at clearance from Sears for $600 which does great in the bedroom at 5-7 feet distances...720p is enough at that size), and while 1080p is great, at that size and distance, it really won't make as noticeable an impact as a 37", 40, 46, or 52" screen. If you can afford the 1080p, go for it, if not, for what you're planning on, 720 p is fine.

Myself, I'm planning on a 52" XBR5 in the next few months to take over my Panny PT-50LC14 50" in the living room. The Panny was fine and still is great, but I just can't pass up the 120Hz and the XBR5's looks.

[David Hingtgen]

For me it's not really affordability--it's availability. There are 2 places in 50 miles of here that sell good 32in HDTV's. BestBuy, and Sears. And due to coupon/gift cards, it's going to be BestBuy. My choices are limited to their stock. If they don't get in the 1080p version of Samsung's 32in, I can't buy it. (I will NOT buy a TV online, I've never had good luck with monitors/TV---plus my coupon and gift certificates would negate any online price savings at this point)

For me, a concern is UPscaling. I still plan to play a lot of PS2 on my HDTV. The less it has to upscale, the better. Plus, Soul Calibur 2 is actually a 720p game (or so it says), despite being for the original Xbox. The only 1080p source I'll have will be my PS3 (when I buy one). And even if you set your 360 to do 1080p output, most games are actually rendered (and have texture maps for) 720p and then upscaled internally, as do a lot of PS3 games AFAIK. Just because something's coming through the cable at 1080p, doesn't mean it actually "has" 1080 actual different lines of resolution to start with. (unless it's a BluRay movie)

Having your 360 internally upscale Mass Effect etc from 720p to send it via 1080p then showing it on a 1080p TV, really isn't any better than having it stay 720p all the way to your 720p TV. You've changed the resolution numbers, but for actual detail---you can't create/add what isn't there. Kind like scanning old newsprint at 1600dpi.

[Gaijin]

For me it's not really affordability--it's availability. There are 2 places in 50 miles of here that sell good 32in HDTV's. BestBuy, and Sears. And due to coupon/gift cards, it's going to be BestBuy. My choices are limited to their stock. If they don't get in the 1080p version of Samsung's 32in, I can't buy it. (I will NOT buy a TV online, I've never had good luck with monitors/TV---plus my coupon and gift certificates would negate any online price savings at this point)

For me, a concern is UPscaling. I still plan to play a lot of PS2 on my HDTV. The less it has to upscale, the better. Plus, Soul Calibur 2 is actually a 720p game (or so it says), despite being for the original Xbox. The only 1080p source I'll have will be my PS3 (when I buy one). And even if you set your 360 to do 1080p output, most games are actually rendered (and have texture maps for) 720p and then upscaled internally, as do a lot of PS3 games AFAIK. Just because something's coming through the cable at 1080p, doesn't mean it actually "has" 1080 actual different lines of resolution to start with. (unless it's a BluRay movie)

Having your 360 internally upscale Mass Effect etc from 720p to send it via 1080p then showing it on a 1080p TV, really isn't any better than having it stay 720p all the way to your 720p TV. You've changed the resolution numbers, but for actual detail---you can't create/add what isn't there. Kind like scanning old newsprint at 1600dpi.

You're 100 percent correct on the upscaling on games.

[Alpha OTS]

I was just at Best Buy and the normal price of a new Blu Ray movie was $35.

I think I miss the format war.

[eugimon]

I was just at Best Buy and the normal price of a new Blu Ray movie was $35.

I think I miss the format war.

it's 35 bucks at target as well. And yes, a big, I TOLD YOU SO, to all those people who thought prices would come down with demise of HD-DVD. When corporations fight, consumers win.

[Wes]

I was just at Best Buy and the normal price of a new Blu Ray movie was $35.

I think I miss the format war.

Well you can start by not going to 'best'buy. DeepDiscount is listing averages of like 27-28, I don't remember what they were before but look online.

[Dangard Ace]

Paramount announcing Bluray titles.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/conten...1d52af2e489502b

Paramount unveils initial Blu-ray slate

'Bee Movie,' 'Face/Off' among titles

By Thomas K. Arnold

April 29, 2008, 07:57 PM

Paramount Home Entertainment is getting ready to re-enter the Blu-ray Disc business it abandoned last year just before "Transformers," with an initial slate of catalog titles it will begin rolling out May 20.

Arriving in stores that day are Blu-ray Disc versions of "Face/Off," "Next" and "Bee Movie," a DreamWorks Animation title that was initially supposed to be released in March on HD DVD, the same day as the standard DVD. But when Toshiba threw in the towel on HD DVD in February, those plans were scrapped and "Bee Movie" came out only on DVD.

Two more recent theatrical hits will be released on Blu-ray Disc on June 3, "Cloverfield" and "There Will Be Blood."

Then, on June 24, Paramount will issue its first day-and-date Blu-ray Disc release, "The Spiderwick Chronicles." The film, which grossed $70.6 million in U.S. theaters, will be rolled out on Blu-ray Disc in key international markets, as well, beginning in July.

Also slated for international-market release are "Cloverfield" and "No Country for Old Men," beginning in August.

More titles will follow as the year progresses, said Paramount Pictures worldwide home entertainment president Kelley Avery.

"We will have a strong slate of titles for Blu-ray release throughout the year, worldwide, and are enthusiastic about expanding the format's offerings for a broad consumer audience while delivering an experience that goes beyond what viewers love about DVD," she said.

Paramount initially was one of two studios, along with Warner Home Video, supportive of both next-generation, high-definition optical disc formats. But in August, Paramount became HD DVD-exclusive, reportedly after a $50 million payment from the HD DVD camp.

[Gaijin]

it's 35 bucks at target as well. And yes, a big, I TOLD YOU SO, to all those people who thought prices would come down with demise of HD-DVD. When corporations fight, consumers win.

I've never spent that much on a blu- ray disc including new releases. And msrp prices of bd discs are lower than before. Format war or not though, I always saw mostly higher prices on hd DVD's when the war was in full gear. Check amazon if you want cheap blu ray discs. Not saying that some places have crazy prices on bluray but you honestly think the war would drive disc priced down further? It would seem so to most but Toshiba is almost half a billion dollars in the hole from the war. Those cheaper prices were subsidized and had to come from somewhere. It would not have continued much longer especially since toshiba didn't have much cash to start with. What should have happened was toshiba shouldn't have listened to ms, joined the bd association and combined their tech. Consumers would have won, they would have won, the only downside to this would have been for microsoft.

[eugimon]

I've never spent that much on a blu- ray disc including new releases. And msrp prices of bd discs are lower than before. Format war or not though, I always saw mostly higher prices on hd DVD's when the war was in full gear. Check amazon if you want cheap blu ray discs. Not saying that some places have crazy prices on bluray but you honestly think the war would drive disc priced down further? It would seem so to most but Toshiba is almost half a billion dollars in the hole from the war. Those cheaper prices were subsidized and had to come from somewhere. It would not have continued much longer especially since toshiba didn't have much cash to start with. What should have happened was toshiba shouldn't have listened to ms, joined the bd association and combined their tech. Consumers would have won, they would have won, the only downside to this would have been for microsoft.

Are you serious? Are you really saying that the lack of competition would have benefited consumers more? We would still have players costing around a thousand dollars if it weren't for the war. DVDs had a much higher rate of adoption and their prices remained stable for much longer compared to how rapidly BD and HD-DVD prices dropped. Look, I don't care what happens to toshiba or MS, I don't own any stock in either company nor do I know people who work for them. The only thing that I care about, in this situation, is me and what's best for me is lower prices.

Now, you can argue that places like amazon have lower prices than MSRP, but so what? I only buy discs during their various sales anyways but if you stop and think that if brick and mortar stores sell BD for significantly lower than MSRP so will stores like amazon. It's still a win for consumers.

I honestly don't get how anyone can argue that lack of competition is a good thing.

[Gaijin]

Are you serious? Are you really saying that the lack of competition would have benefited consumers more? We would still have players costing around a thousand dollars if it weren't for the war. DVDs had a much higher rate of adoption and their prices remained stable for much longer compared to how rapidly BD and HD-DVD prices dropped. Look, I don't care what happens to toshiba or MS, I don't own any stock in either company nor do I know people who work for them. The only thing that I care about, in this situation, is me and what's best for me is lower prices.

Now, you can argue that places like amazon have lower prices than MSRP, but so what? I only buy discs during their various sales anyways but if you stop and think that if brick and mortar stores sell BD for significantly lower than MSRP so will stores like amazon. It's still a win for consumers.

I honestly don't get how anyone can argue that lack of competition is a good thing.

NO, we wouldn't still have players costing a thousand dollars still. I was privy to pricing strategies that were to be out for models even without taking into account HD DVD's players, for most of 2006 and 2007. That's why I can say no.

Lack of competition isn't a good thing per se, but rather it can be harmful on the whole as well.

Competition is fine, but if it hurts the industry it is supposed to be nurturing, we will pay for it later. HD DVD's hardware prices came at the expense of higher royalties for discs, negating the price advantage promised. Sure, we pay less for a player, but disc prices for HD DVD's did not drop, nor did any production costs, of which BD during that time frame, did, Combo HD DVD's were forced upon people to justify the higher prices, and no, the prices would not have dropped as fast as you think, as studio's profits on HD DVD's were not as much as they thought it would be. Couple the fact that they sold consistently lower volume, and all the pricing advantages did not work in no one's favor. You say it was for consumers...not true, since consumers who bought into it now have a dead format. If they had billions to continue, then fine, I'd be for it but most people in the know knew that the HD DVD gamble was pretty much an Edsel waiting to happen.

On the surface, the war between the two seemed fine and for most cases, it usually is, but for anyone digging underneath the high def war, the war did more harm to the entire industry and yes, the end consumer than anything else. Competition works better if there will be no clear cut winner, like Ford and Chevy. Some will argue choice. There would be no need honestly, if they had combined form the start since if you knew Ford wasn't going to be able to compete with Chevy and would give it up, resulting in no more Fords or service, would it still be beneficial?

How did HD DVD disc's higher prices work out better for you when there was competition between the 2 anyways?

Edited April 30, 2008 by Gaijin

[eugimon]

Competition is fine, but if it hurts the industry it is supposed to be nurturing, we will pay for it later.

How did HD DVD disc's higher prices work out better for you when there was competition between the 2?

I like how you keep trying to spin this. What was my point? Was my point that HD-DVDs were better or cheaper? Or that toshiba was smart or that microsoft is... whatever of the myriad red herrings you like to throw around? No. My point was and is, that all the people who said that with the demise of HD-DVD that blu-ray prices would magically come down were and are wrong and that players and now the media itself are creeping up in price.

oh, and BTW, both blu-ray and hd-dvd had 39.99 MSRPs depending on what title you were/are looking at... so those "higher prices" worked out just as well as the "higher prices" on blu-ray discs, because I only bought and continue to only buy when there's a sale.

Edited April 30, 2008 by eugimon

[Gaijin]

I like how you keep trying to spin this. What was my point? Was my point that HD-DVDs were better or cheaper? Or that toshiba was smart or that microsoft is... whatever of the myriad red herrings you like to throw around? No. My point was and is, that all the people who said that with the demise of HD-DVD that blu-ray prices would magically come down were and are wrong and that players and now the media itself are creeping up in price.

oh, and BTW, both blu-ray and hd-dvd had 39.99 MSRPs depending on what title you were/are looking at... so those "higher prices" worked out just as well as the "higher prices" on blu-ray discs, because I only bought and continue to only buy when there's a sale.

If both were msrp the same and you only bought them on sale: How is that any different from people buying from amazon then?

And where do you see bd players and discs creeping up in price? It certainly isn't going up at anywhere in the us. Maybe your town is price gouging crazy? Bd players in my city are at the 350 and below with the only "higher" ones being the super high end brands. If you're seeing higher prices I dont know what to tell you. I certainly havent seen them, but I guess if you see them priced higher than last year than I'd be thinking like you. There are sub $300 players ok the way, and you'll see a cheaper PS3 as well.

Prices do come down and they have. Somehow you have it set in your mind that the prices are creeping up now because? Was it the disc at best buy? Also, who said the moment the war was over that bluray would come down in price instantly? Your earlier argument was that the war would drive prices down works on theory but only to a point. Both sides reached their "breaking point" and you wouldnt have seen any much more cuts due to thecompetition. Lower manufacturing costs yes but not due to they're cheaper than us so wehave to be cheaper too. I wish it were but I've learned it doesn't alwsys work out that way in the corporate world.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Gaijin

[jwinges]

Anybody ever have a rear channel go out on their 5.1 receiver? How'd you fix it? I've had this happen on my sony receiver and want to try fixing it myself before I have to send it in to service since its out of warrenty.

[azrael]

Blu-ray player sales down despite end of format war

*looks at Newegg*

$400+ for a Blu-ray burner....yeh, this is gonna take a while.

[Tobi54]

If both were msrp the same and you only bought them on sale: How is that any different from people buying from amazon then?

And where do you see bd players and discs creeping up in price? It certainly isn't going up at anywhere in the us. Maybe your town is price gouging crazy? Bd players in my city are at the 350 and below with the only "higher" ones being the super high end brands. If you're seeing higher prices I dont know what to tell you. I certainly havent seen them, but I guess if you see them priced higher than last year than I'd be thinking like you. There are sub $300 players ok the way, and you'll see a cheaper PS3 as well.

Prices do come down and they have. Somehow you have it set in your mind that the prices are creeping up now because? Was it the disc at best buy? Also, who said the moment the war was over that bluray would come down in price instantly? Your earlier argument was that the war would drive prices down works on theory but only to a point. Both sides reached their "breaking point" and you wouldnt have seen any much more cuts due to thecompetition. Lower manufacturing costs yes but not due to they're cheaper than us so wehave to be cheaper too. I wish it were but I've learned it doesn't alwsys work out that way in the corporate world.

Here you go, and by the way this is not the only place where this has been discussed, it just happens it's the first link I found.

http://www.movieweb.com/dvd/news/95/27095.php

Please show me where to get those players you're referring to, I know there's cheaper players coming out later in the year, but currently, the entry-level players are over $350.00 easly, only way you can get them cheaper is online, depending on models, sales, and even then you're not getting a full-featured player.

I agree with eugimon, I dont understand why you're trying to spin this, it doesn't make any sense.

PS: I wont bother linking all of articles, here's a link to a google search: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=b...yer+prices+rise

Edited April 30, 2008 by Tobi54

[Gaijin]

Here you go, and by the way this is not the only place where this has been discussed, it just happens it's the first link I found.

http://www.movieweb.com/dvd/news/95/27095.php

Please show me where to get those players you're referring to, I know there's cheaper players coming out later in the year, but currently, the entry-level players are over $350.00 easly, only way you can get them cheaper is online, depending on models, sales, and even then you're not getting a full-featured player.

I agree with eugimon, I dont understand why you're trying to spin this, it doesn't make any sense.

PS: I wont bother linking all of articles, here's a link to a google search: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=b...yer+prices+rise

Seen that article before.

Have you checked ACTUAL prices in stores? Any website and blog today flashes "news" and people "assume" it's gospel. Maybe my eyes are deceiving me, maybe the online prices are deceiving me. But MSRP prices including those on upcoming models are not higher but lower. If you are using the $350 is higher than before in comparison to give away HD DVD players were at Christmas, yes...but they are still lower than their BD debut prices. I'm not sure where the higher prices argument is coming from. If you say higher than HD DVD players were, then by all means sure. But the prices of the same models last year are less anywhere you might actually go to. The artcile claims $607 avg price last month but honestly, where?

Sears, Walmart, Crutchfield all have $350 players (Samsung and Sharp, Wally has the Sony 300S for $359) and have been since early March. I'm not saying they are drastically lower 2 months after the war ended, but they are in fact cheaper (average $50-75). The articles you google all come back to citing the same article actually. DO you have higher priced players in your town all of a sudden that were cheaper before February? I've seen that artcile last month as well, but I honestly haven't seen the price increases they mentioned.

Pricegrabber isn't the ultimate source of what is going on...the average Wii price around then was $359. Does that mean the price of Wii's has risen? Nope. I do know that after the war "ended" there was a mad rush by many HD DVD early adopters to grab BD players for some reason, including the high end ones such as Pioneer Elites. But if you see those higher prices in your shops then I stand corrected, and suggest you shop elsewhere.

That said, this was originally about a BD disc being $35 and how that was higher than before...was that title $25 at the store previously?

And to prove I'm not spinning everything, I'll say that neither sides stand alone players were even worth buying for the average person. Most were too slow or crippled in some form (1080i) on HD DVD, Firmware updates needed on some BD Models. Both the 360 add on and PS3 were better players for the money. Eugimon mentioned all that mattered was pricing to him/her. If so, then I'd suggest shopping at somewhere where prices suited you, internet articles and MSRP's be damned.

Best advice for either side.

For what it's worth, I'm sure if HD DVD won we'd see $10 discs and $50 players by now.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Gaijin

[Tobi54]

Seen that article before.

Have you checked ACTUAL prices in stores? Any website and blog today flashes "news" and people "assume" it's gospel. Maybe my eyes are deceiving me, maybe the online prices are deceiving me. But MSRP prices including those on upcoming models are not higher but lower. If you are using the $350 is higher than before in comparison to give away HD DVD players were at Christmas, yes...but they are still lower than their BD debut prices. I'm not sure where the higher prices argument is coming from. If you say higher than HD DVD players were, then by all means sure. But the prices of the same models last year are less anywhere you might actually go to. The artcile claims $607 avg price last month but honestly, where?

Sears, Walmart, Crutchfield all have $350 players (Samsung and Sharp, Wally has the Sony 300S for $359) and have been since early March. I'm not saying they are drastically lower 2 months after the war ended, but they are in fact cheaper (average $50-75). The articles you google all come back to citing the same article actually. DO you have higher priced players in your town all of a sudden that were cheaper before February? I've seen that artcile last month as well, but I honestly haven't seen the price increases they mentioned.

Pricegrabber isn't the ultimate source of what is going on...the average Wii price around then was $359. Does that mean the price of Wii's has risen? Nope. I do know that after the war "ended" there was a mad rush by many HD DVD early adopters to grab BD players for some reason, including the high end ones such as Pioneer Elites. But if you see those higher prices in your shops then I stand corrected, and suggest you shop elsewhere.

That said, this was originally about a BD disc being $35 and how that was higher than before...was that title $25 at the store previously?

And to prove I'm not spinning everything, I'll say that neither sides stand alone players were even worth buying for the average person. Most were too slow or crippled in some form (1080i) on HD DVD, Firmware updates needed on some BD Models. Both the 360 add on and PS3 were better players for the money. Eugimon mentioned all that mattered was pricing to him/her. If so, then I'd suggest shopping at somewhere where prices suited you, internet articles and MSRP's be damned.

Best advice for either side.

For what it's worth, I'm sure if HD DVD won we'd see $10 discs and $50 players by now.

I go to electronic stores, including Best Buy etc every other week, and the cheapest player they have is the entry level Sony for $399.00. which was as low as $299.00 before the war ended, the article linked proves that prices have RAISED on CURRENT models since the war ended, no one is discussing since inception prices, ALL electronics drop in prices after a year of release so that point is moot.

I HAVE seen the price increases, people don't just make these things up.

There were multiple buy one get one free sales on Blu-Ray, and by multiple, I mean non-stop for the last year of the format war, people were getting anywhere from $10-$15 movies a pop, war ends, no more bogos.

No one here is defending HD DVD prices or players, or whatever else you still have against the dead format, we're defending the fact that the format war actually helped the consumer, there's no denying that it did.

[bandit29]

Gotta agree that prices for Blu-ray movies and players have gone up since the "war" ended. I usually wait for a BOGO at Amazon or 10.00 off week at Best Buy. But there aren't as many sales as there was during the format war. Which I kinda expected.

[Gaijin]

I go to electronic stores, including Best Buy etc every other week, and the cheapest player they have is the entry level Sony for $399.00. which was as low as $299.00 before the war ended, the article linked proves that prices have RAISED on CURRENT models since the war ended, no one is discussing since inception prices, ALL electronics drop in prices after a year of release so that point is moot.

I HAVE seen the price increases, people don't just make these things up.

There were multiple buy one get one free sales on Blu-Ray, and by multiple, I mean non-stop for the last year of the format war, people were getting anywhere from $10-$15 movies a pop, war ends, no more bogos.

No one here is defending HD DVD prices or players, or whatever else you still have against the dead format, we're defending the fact that the format war actually helped the consumer, there's no denying that it did.

There was a BOGO BD Sale 2 or 3 weeks ago from Amazon...your facts are incorrect. They do pop up from time to time still, and there will be more. Not as frequent but they haven't gone away.

[Gaijin]

Gotta agree that prices for Blu-ray movies and players have gone up since the "war" ended. I usually wait for a BOGO at Amazon or 10.00 off week at Best Buy. But there aren't as many sales as there was during the format war. Which I kinda expected.

Really? I haven't seen any price increases in my area, nor the figures that show it in my district areas. What areas and what stores are these? I'm just curious as to which stores have increased prices in-store.

[Uxi]

I was just at Best Buy and the normal price of a new Blu Ray movie was $35.

I think I miss the format war.

Mistake #1: Buying at Best Buy, at least without a price match and ad in hand from another place. Their prices have ALWAYS sucked.

Mistake #2: Correlation does not equal causation. I have yet to see correlation established (and it's impossible until Q4 '08 rolls around anyway). Rants from posters with a known anti-Sony/Blu-ray bias go into the circular file. Not saying you're one, since I don't recall if you even had a position before, but certain others have well established leanings...

I'm willing to bet we see BOGOs this upcoming Christmas season.

Edited May 1, 2008 by Uxi

[Tobi54]

There was a BOGO BD Sale 2 or 3 weeks ago from Amazon...your facts are incorrect. They do pop up from time to time still, and there will be more. Not as frequent but they haven't gone away.

Give me a break, everyone knows the current sales are a joke, the sales are no where near as good as they were before the war ended, they raised the price on an average of $5 per movie for this "sale" and it was a buy 2 get 1 free, sale not a real BOGO. So I guess that makes your facts wrong too? I sure hope they keep coming, or at least the good ones come back, a lot of people have been waiting for a real sale since January.

[Gaijin]

Give me a break, everyone knows the current sales are a joke, the sales are no where near as good as they were before the war ended, they raised the price on an average of $5 per movie for this "sale" and it was a buy 2 get 1 free, sale not a real BOGO. So I guess that makes your facts wrong too? I sure hope they keep coming, or at least the good ones come back, a lot of people have been waiting for a real sale since January.

I'll give you that one about buy 2 get one free. True, I forgot that. There were buy 2 get one free BD sales before the BOGO ones though.

I didn't see any price changes in my cart, that were any different from January, December, or November though. If you did, then...do not buy.

The only big BOGO was when they lopped all the studios together towards the end, before that, HD DVD loyalists claimed the BOGO sales were a joke being one studio at a time, with Disney, Sony, and then Warner taking turns from Amazon.

And how come no one is griping about that they can't get other Holiday prices during the year anyways? BOGO at Amazon proved one thing to a lot of people...More people bought BD's than HD DVD's, even with the same offers(as could be had given studio support).

And yes, BOGO's will be back, but likely no where near the Summer.

[Tobi54]

I'll give you that one about buy 2 get one free. True, I forgot that. There were buy 2 get one free BD sales before the BOGO ones though.

I didn't see any price changes in my cart, that were any different from January, December, or November though. If you did, then...do not buy.

The only big BOGO was when they lopped all the studios together towards the end, before that, HD DVD loyalists claimed the BOGO sales were a joke being one studio at a time, with Disney, Sony, and then Warner taking turns from Amazon.

And how come no one is griping about that they can't get other Holiday prices during the year anyways? BOGO at Amazon proved one thing to a lot of people...More people bought BD's than HD DVD's, even with the same offers(as could be had given studio support).

And yes, BOGO's will be back, but likely no where near the Summer.

The price changes were pretty obvious, especially if you have been keeping track of prices and sales like I have, for example black hawk down was 14.95 before the buy 2 get 1 free, the sale goes up, black hawk down is part of the list of selected titles and the price went up to 19.95, the sale is over, it went back down to 14.95, multiple titles saw this type of change during this "sale" it was a rip off, not only that the selection was pretty bad compared to earlier bogos.

Dude, you need to get over the fact that the war is over, no one here is discussing HD DVD as a format, or HD DVD loyalists, or how much more BD sold than HD DVD, the point we're trying to make was that the competition between the 2 favored the consumer when it came to prices, deals, w/e you want to call it. BOGOS run pretty much NON-STOP throughout the whole last year of the war, whether it was a holyday season or not, summer, winter, spring, it didnt matter, I guess it's just a coincidence that they dissapeared once the war was won.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Another factor to keep in mind during this "Blu Ray price issue" should be that we are in the spring to summer slump right now. There pretty much aren't any decent quality offerings on Blu Ray coming out until this summer and the better releases are generally held off until closer to the holidays. Retailers think the same way... they hold back all their good deals and specials until there is some kind of "event" or season to encourage them to really push the format.

Another sad truth of the matter is that many of the BOGO offers we have seen, even from day one, are usually on movies that nobody wants. Unless you're funny in the head I can't think of a single person who said to themselves "All right! If I buy Norbit on Blu Ray I can get Vin Diesel's XXX for FREE! Wooooooo!"... Nearly every single Amazon BOGO offer I've seen has been 75% shelf warmers with the odd good movie hiding in the list. For retailers, it's easy to crank out a BOGO offer on stock that isn't selling. Not only does it boost sales but it moves some stock that has been gathering dust.

As for the whole "$40 MSRP" that has been around since day one. Not every Blu Ray has a MSRP of $40, only a few do, and that is nothing new. I paid $40 for my Simpsons movie Blu Ray and that was months ago back during the format war. Hell, I paid $40 for Hot Fuzz on HD DVD. A casual glance at the MSRPs of newly reviewed Blu Ray movies on High Def Digest shows me the following: Ocean's Eleven $29, First Sunday $39, PS I Love You $36, Sublime $29, First Knight $29, A Passage to India $29, National Treasure II $35... I see only one $40 disc (one that no one will probably buy on Blu Ray, indicating that it's price is probably driven by a small production run rather than it being a "quality" movie). The others will probably be retail priced around $25. National Treasure is a Disney release and every single Disney release since day one has been $35 MSRP, which usually translates to a $30 retail price. I paid $30 each for my Ratatouille and Cars Blu Rays but I have seen both advertised on sale for $20 on occasion. Then again on HDD.com they show Yukikaze for a paltry $150 MSRP on Blu Ray.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I see nothing different between now and months ago during the format war. Prices are not going up but they are not plummeting like a guy with a bad parachute either. This whole "ten dollar Blu Ray movies" thing will happen, just not for a while. As I've said before Blu Ray still has yet to shore up it's own format, once that is done and after the February '09 digital migration you will probably see BD market dominance creep higher and the prices creep lower. I still believe this whole thing will be so gradual, like the way DVD snuck up on us, that one day we will all wander into a store and notice Blu Ray is everywhere and DVD is relegated to a small rack in the back. But it will take years to get there, just as it did with DVD. Hell, DVD was an unchallenged format and I recall $40 DVD MSRPs for years after it's introduction.

[Tobi54]

http://www.reuters.com/article/industryNew...333821520080423

At the end of 2007, there were at least 3.5 million Blu-ray players in U.S. homes. At most, each of those households had purchased an average of three Blu-ray titles. Nathanson said that the same point in the adoption curve of standard DVD players, each household had purchased as many as 30 DVDs

Until stand-alone Blu-ray players -- the cheapest is about $370 -- fall to below $200, Americans en masse won't adopt the new technology, experts predict. Nathanson predicts in a recent 27-page report that that won't happen until the end of 2009.

[azrael]

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/b...s-been-delayed/

Kinda bad when even specific sales figures aren't released.....

[Dangard Ace]

They never are. Almost all we've been given from the companies so far are percentages. The make or break Blu-ray season, afaic, is this coming christmas season. One format, profile 2.0 players "should" be out and the deals start again. If Ironman does as well as I expect it to do, we will probably see a spike once it hits Bluray. Hell when Paramount decides to release Transformers on Blu-ray we'll see a spike there too.

[Alpha OTS]

Mistake #1: Buying at Best Buy, at least without a price match and ad in hand from another place. Their prices have ALWAYS sucked.

Mistake #2: Correlation does not equal causation. I have yet to see correlation established (and it's impossible until Q4 '08 rolls around anyway). Rants from posters with a known anti-Sony/Blu-ray bias go into the circular file. Not saying you're one, since I don't recall if you even had a position before, but certain others have well established leanings...

I'm willing to bet we see BOGOs this upcoming Christmas season.

1. I didn't go there to buy Blurays. I was actually looking to see if there were any clearance HDdvds left. While there I happened to see the Bluray price, which has always been higher than anywhere else, and it is generally higher than it was before.

2. Yes, it's anecdotal evidence, but this *is* a discussion forum and it hardly qualifies as a rant.

Edit: May as well add a footnote that I own a ps3 lest I be branded with a "well established HDdvd leaning".

Edited May 1, 2008 by Alpha OTS