the white drew carey Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Toshiba officially pulls the plug.
bandit29 Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Official press release http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2008_02/pr1903.htm
Dangard Ace Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Excellent! One format, One player and a dancing bear. Let the mass adoption of HDM begin! (sorry but I just won the watercooler HD bet. I get a free lunch.)
Apollo Leader Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 That's great news! Glad to finally see one unifying format. Unless some other format looks to be coming down the pike real soon, I'll probably get a Blu Ray player in the next 12 months or so... next March is my 10 year anniversary of when I got my first DVD player so that might be the time to do it. Just to jog my memory, is the US and Japan the same Region when it comes to Blu Ray?
JsARCLIGHT Posted February 19, 2008 Author Posted February 19, 2008 I fully expect Microsoft to begin the push for digital downloads in the near future. If you read MS'es "response" to Toshiba's towel throw it kind of hints at things to come. If you believe internet rumor and fanboy speculation, Microsoft has been funding the HD DVD camp simply to oppose Sony and force them to fight a protracted format war. Now that the "format war" is over, the content war can now begin. As much as people are going to love to shout "the war is over" in the coming days, I have this nasty feeling that the real war is about to begin. The HD market is still so niche and given the right push by the right people Blu Ray cold topple just as easily as HD DVD did... all it takes is money to back it and people to buy it, and folks (and when I say "folks" I mean the unwashed, uneducated "I ain't payin' no thirty dollars for a movie when I can get it as a 'just as good' download fer ten!" masses) seem to gravitate towards digital downloads.
Chewie Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 I am curious to see how MS is going to handle this. As for digital downloads, maybe someone (other than apple) will release a set top box style hard drive that will allow us to download and enjoy HD content without paying through the nose for Blu-Ray discs/players.
Ghadrack Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Except for the fact that the unwashed toothless masses can barely operate a DVD remote let alone figure out how to download video content and get it to play on their big TV's. So unless they come out with a plug and play tard box on the cheap it will be the same videophile and youth demographics. Dont' get me wrong, DL content is the future but the studios aren't prepared to go that route due to piracy fears, and the public just isn't prepared, I mean can you see your mom or your grandma trying to download a movie?
misterryno Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 I mean can you see your mom or your grandma trying to download a movie? I know what you mean. I just now turned my P's onto NetFlix. I wonder how their gonna take it when the new stuff hit the shelves.
Dangard Ace Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 I agree it will be BD vs DLC next. What the BDA have to do is educate people on just how large the movies files are on BD and how long it would take to download that over the web. It's going to be awhile before instant gratification on demand HD content (1080 with at least 5.1 support) is available.
JsARCLIGHT Posted February 19, 2008 Author Posted February 19, 2008 Except for the fact that the unwashed toothless masses can barely operate a DVD remote let alone figure out how to download video content and get it to play on their big TV's. So unless they come out with a plug and play tard box on the cheap it will be the same videophile and youth demographics. Dont' get me wrong, DL content is the future but the studios aren't prepared to go that route due to piracy fears, and the public just isn't prepared, I mean can you see your mom or your grandma trying to download a movie? Actually I can. My mother is old, in her 60s, and she has an Ipod and Itunes on her computer. She loves it... loves the heck out of it... because it is A) simple, B) easy for her to access (it's one click on an icon on her Mac and then if you can use an internet browser you can use Itunes) and C) far cheaper and easier for her than going to a music store. All MS or Apple has to do is find a way to get a big hard drive into a set top box for under $100 that hooks into your wifi or computer network (or even better one that just plugs into your computer via USB or something and lets you do all your downloading on your computer then just plug it into it's 'dock' at your TV to play it) and they are golden. Apple has already jumped the hurdles of digital downloads by using proprietary formats and other trickery, as has Mircosoft with their Xbox 360 downloaded movies. The whole problem is price and overhead... if they can get it cheaper, faster then they will "win".
bsu legato Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 "You fought in the Format Wars?" "Yes, I was once a HD DVD fanboy, the same as your father. Now the HD DVD is all but extinct." 'Bout damn time one side or the other lost. Now I can think about upgrading to Hi Def.
Dangard Ace Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Actually I can. My mother is old, in her 60s, and she has an Ipod and Itunes on her computer. She loves it... loves the heck out of it... because it is A) simple, B) easy for her to access (it's one click on an icon on her Mac and then if you can use an internet browser you can use Itunes) and C) far cheaper and easier for her than going to a music store. Both my parents(70+) are the exact opposite of your mom. Think 12:00 flashing and you're about there. They can use all the basic functions(bare minimum basics- play stop rewind/ff) of a deck but ask them to navigate a menu system, forget it. Not going to happen. I spent a good 6hrs trying to get them to understand what "press the mouse button once/single click" before either they lost patience or I threw my hands in the air and gave up. Obviously they don't own a computer so DLC is out.
Ghadrack Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Which was my point, sure there are exceptions and there are plenty of tech savy old folks out there, but I would hazard to bet that they are in the minority. For the time being those older folks who just don't want to hassle with all the tech stuff aren't going to go for digital download unless, as I alluded to and was spelled out a few posts above, someone comes out with a very easy to use set top download box that will work at the click of a button. There are still millions and millions of americans who do not have home computers, let alone High Speed internet, the movie companies want to sell those people movies and can't force them to move into the technology modern age. I think there are a lot of reasons why we are going to see another 5 o 10 years worth of physical media sales before downloading becomes the absolute predominant means of retail information transfer. I might have to eat my words, but if I do, there are going to be masses of unhappy, bumfuzzled old people and Morlok tech savages roaming the streets with torches looking for DVD's so I won't suffer much.
bandit29 Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Both my parents(70+) are the exact opposite of your mom. Think 12:00 flashing and you're about there. They can use all the basic functions(bare minimum basics- play stop rewind/ff) of a deck but ask them to navigate a menu system, forget it. Not going to happen. I spent a good 6hrs trying to get them to understand what "press the mouse button once/single click" before either they lost patience or I threw my hands in the air and gave up. Obviously they don't own a computer so DLC is out. Ya my parents are the same way. In their mid 60's. No computer skills whatsoever. But they still buy DVDs. DLC wouldn't interest them. They did get an HDTV recently. Guess who had to set that up and explain their new DISH HD service lol DLC might work for movies eventually. Technology is moving faster than peoples buying/spending habits. If they can keep the same quality for DLC movies I'd buy some. I hope movies don't end up like the music industry's shitty MP3s.
Apollo Leader Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 I like DLC from the perspective of rentals and demos (in the case of game consoles). But when it comes to something I want to have for the long run, I would rather have an individual disc which I can sell and trade off when or if if I no longer desire to keep it. Also you can own as many discs (for games and movies) as you want and you can play them in other players or consoles, but having to dump everything on a finite hard drive limits the number of purchases you can make and then there's the issue of trying to save or move that content elsewhere...
jenius Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 BLU-Ray, or HD DVD for that matter, just isn't seen as a phenomenal enough jump forward for the average person to go out and buy them. I think what you're going to see is a very gradual adoption of BLU-Ray as standard DVD players fail and BLU-Ray becomes cheap enough to be a replacement. For me, I can do PPV in HD, that works for now. Eventually, when the PS3 is in bargain bins everywhere I'll probably pick one up.
Dangard Ace Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 If the friggin Home Media Magazine link would work I'd post it but apparently Universal has Officially jumped to Blu. now we wait for Paramount and Dreamworks to officially jump ship. http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread...4330&page=2
Duke Togo Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 The real winners are those who waited and didn't go with either format. Now we get to wait for Blu-ray player prices to drop over the next year, and we can transition over without any worry.
JsARCLIGHT Posted February 19, 2008 Author Posted February 19, 2008 Like it or not the competition between the formats drove the hardware prices down artificially fast. All these "cheap" players were not really "cheap"... they still cost a grand to $500 but Sony was giving them the fire sale treatment like Toshiba was doing to push their format. Now that they are the "winner" Sony doesn't have to fight as hard so I bet they will not lower their hardware prices as fast as everyone is wanting. I think they will probably poop out the BD Live 2.0 players, call it a wrap and then those prices will hold through Christmas and later until they find a way to build the players for much cheaper. I also think that BD media prices will hold for a year plus as well. If anything, it seems to me that Blu Ray disc prices have been slightly rising in some cases (many new release BD movies are now $34.99 MSRP rather than $29.99 or lower).
Oihan Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) This is saddening news imo. I was hoping for the competition to prolong itself for another good year or so...maybe we would have seen even lower prices. Oh well! Edited February 19, 2008 by Oihan
mikeszekely Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 DLC is fine for rentals, but it's impractical to build a collection of movies as HD DLC. Too large of files take up too much space and there's too many restrictions on where and when you can watch it. With HD-DVD dead, I'm hoping the studios will ramp up Blu-ray support and move the format from the expensive discs that no one buys to the $15 New This Week endcap.
eugimon Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 DLC is fine for rentals, but it's impractical to build a collection of movies as HD DLC. Too large of files take up too much space and there's too many restrictions on where and when you can watch it. With HD-DVD dead, I'm hoping the studios will ramp up Blu-ray support and move the format from the expensive discs that no one buys to the $15 New This Week endcap. I find it still difficult to find new BD movies at retail. I was just at Fry's and they had a nice endcap for all the new DVD releases, but I couldn't find a BD michael clayton. And the selection at target is just sad.
the white drew carey Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Another problem is when something f's up the HD that the toothless masses are storing their DLC on and then they lose it all. Very few companies have a user-friendly and helpful system in place to get your DLC back to you if there is some type of hardware failure (my wife went through this wife Apple when our old HD crashed and a bunch of songs she paid for on an iTunes gift card went bye-bye). There's something reassuring about having a copy of the product in hand.
TheLoneWolf Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 That's DRM for you. I wouldn't have any problems purchasing DLC if I knew I could make backups of the videos that I've purchased or watch it on another machine located elsewhere in my place. While it's possible that I could still accidentally crush a physical disc just as well, at least I'd have the option of buying a used replacement copy at a store or even buying/trading one from a friend.
Alpha OTS Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 I was just at Best Buy and they had a number of select HD-DVD titles pretty much slashed in half. I asked one of the clerks if they were all on sale, and he told me they'd be rotating the titles that are on sale each Sunday. Don't know if that's true or how long that'll last.
eugimon Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 I was just at Best Buy and they had a number of select HD-DVD titles pretty much slashed in half. I asked one of the clerks if they were all on sale, and he told me they'd be rotating the titles that are on sale each Sunday. Don't know if that's true or how long that'll last. thanks for the heads up! Did you notice if any of the box sets were on sale?
Beltane70 Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 The real winners are those who waited and didn't go with either format. Now we get to wait for Blu-ray player prices to drop over the next year, and we can transition over without any worry. Amen, brother! It will still probably be until next year that I buy a Blu-Ray player or PS3.
Alpha OTS Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 thanks for the heads up! Did you notice if any of the box sets were on sale? Apart from the Matrix Trilogy for $44, I didn't notice. I was hoping for a slashed American Werewolf, Dune and The Thing, but none of those were on sale.
Vifam7 Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 Now that the format war is over, I hope Sony doesn't backtrack and suddenly go exclusive with Blu-ray players or start adding new features (like additional DRM ideas, region-coding, and all that other wonderful stuff that makes lawyers happy but creates pain for us consumers).
eugimon Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 Amen, brother! It will still probably be until next year that I buy a Blu-Ray player or PS3. yeah... because you know, the day that warner announced they were going blu, what did sony do to blu-ray player prices? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't down.
Gunbuster Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 as much as I love SAC..US$ 257.00 for Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. (English Subtitles) [Limited Release] [blu-ray]....is HD and HD sound worth that much ;; that's not even counting the shipping
Gunbuster Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 The real winners are those who waited and didn't go with either format. Now we get to wait for Blu-ray player prices to drop over the next year, and we can transition over without any worry. I think the real winner is Sony (and now the other studios behind them). They can relax and not drop their prices now with no competition in terms of another HD media. they can now charge at a higher price knowing early adopters will pay for it. And if people think DVD is now their competition, I don't think so and I don't think the studios thinks that either. DVD sales are making millions for them, why would they cannibalize that while they can still get people to pay 30 for HD content?
eugimon Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 as much as I love SAC..US$ 257.00 for Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. (English Subtitles) [Limited Release] [blu-ray]....is HD and HD sound worth that much ;; that's not even counting the shipping every review I've read says it looks slightly better than the standard DVD release... which looks like a VHS copy.
JB0 Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 Now that the format war is over, I hope Sony doesn't backtrack and suddenly go exclusive with Blu-ray players or start adding new features (like additional DRM ideas, region-coding, and all that other wonderful stuff that makes lawyers happy but creates pain for us consumers). *sigh* IT'S NOT SONY'S FORMAT. No more than CD or DVD was, anyways. The format is owned by the BluRay Disc Association, who is also the official developer(though I certainly agree Sony was the primary developer). Sony is one of 18 companies on the board of directors. The full list is... Apple, Inc. Dell HP Hitachi LG Mitsubishi Electric Panasonic Pioneer Philips Samsung Sharp Sony Sun Microsystems TDK Thomson Twentieth Century Fox Walt Disney Warner Bros. Note that several hardware manufacturers are in there. I think it's pretty safe to say they would be somewhat unamused if Sony attempted to lock them all out of the format, and any such motion would be voted down.
bandit29 Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 (edited) every review I've read says it looks slightly better than the standard DVD release... which looks like a VHS copy. I think he is talking about this: GITS SAC Blu-ray Movie box set From what I hear it will have English subs and audio. Still too expensive. Almost 22000 yen at Amazon JP. I would think this would come over here a little cheaper..Bandai Visual USA cheap ya right The first GITS movie on Blu-ray...I'm glad I had a 50.00 credit when I bought it. It ain't worth 7800 yen before shipping. Looks slightly better than the SD region 2 DVD it comes with. IIRC it doesn't even have 5.1. sound. I think it is 2.0 English and Japanese Dolby surround. Edited February 20, 2008 by dejr8bud
Recommended Posts