High Definition Media & Technology Thread

[David Hingtgen]

That's always my biggest issue--I like GOOD sound, not loud sound. I want to hear every note, with the volume set at "2". (My home stereo is much better at that than my car, despite the car's stereo costing much more). A lot of stuff just seems to add bass and volume, losing mid and treble. Or, if treble goes up, it just becomes "piercing".

PS---500 is more than I'd want to spend. Plus I really don't have room for any more speakers. I mean, REALLY don't have room for any more speakers. But my current "send it all to my stereo" setup won't work with HDMI, and would take a lot more splitters etc with component and could lead to signal degradation---will have to further research what my stereo can take for direct TV output----might have to pick my TV partly based on its "audio out" abilities.

[eugimon]

try samsung: htib

I have a lower end model and the sound is pretty good. user interface and performance not as refined as the sony, but it's pretty good for the price and the price is a lot more competetive.

[David Hingtgen]

That's better (half the price). I wish all the HTIB's didn't include a DVD player. I can always do better myself and it just adds to the cost. I want receiver and speakers, nothing more really. (plus, with the PS3 apparently being among the best at upscaling normal DVD's, it may see use as my primary player)

One issue I really have to check---TV output vs "do the TV's speakers still work". How I have stuff now, everything is permanently connected. My TV speakers are always on, even when the stereo's on. My TV can't output audio at all, I just have enough splitters that "everything gets audio signals all the time". But for HDMI etc, I'd need to send all the signals to the TV, then have the TV output audio to the stereo or receiver--and many TV's (including my living room Toshiba) don't like to have their own speakers on when they're doing audio output. But I do want the TV speakers on all the time. I like the ability to almost instantly have my "high end" sound come on with a minimal of button-pushing.

::checks:: Yeah, the only TV I have that can do audio out requires you to physically flip a switch on the BACK of the TV to engage it--shutting off the TV's own speakers. Hopefully newer TV's can do it automatically, or just hit a button on the remote? (or even better, keep their own speakers on while doing audio out) (I've downloaded the manual for nearly every TV I'm considering, but most HDTV manuals are almost as bad as a X360's for how little they explain what all the TV can do and what's in the menus)

[eugimon]

my samsung can do audio out and keep the built in speakers going... and my old sony wega could as well... so could my old panasonic.

http://shop3.outpost.com/product/5225837 - it's an onkyo 7.1 system but it's more than what you were looking for (450 $). This unit supports HDMI and with 7.1 sound it will work well for your HD needs. Or, you can keep checking the weekly sales, Fry's usually puts a onkyo 5.1 system on sale for around 200 bucks every couple of weeks.

[David Hingtgen]

Checking BestBuy, there's receiver and speakers only set up from Sony for a bit under 200--that looks good to me.

As for audio out--the Samsung I'm looking at seems able to do what I want, the Sony seems like it can't. (There was literally a new firmware from Samsung like a week ago, and no problems reported yet---if they finally fixed the "tearing with 720p" problem, it's definitely the one I'm buying)

Panasonic--manual's not very specific. It uses different terms every time audio out is mentioned. I get the impression it's "tv OR external".

[VF-19]

Maybe I'm staring at my TV for too long but when I'm playing a game or dvd on my PS3 I'm starting to notice these lines on my set.

Using a standard TV. The lines are easier to see when the footage is dark. They are these horizontal like wide lines that scroll up during use. I don't I recall seeing them before. My almost 8 years old. Is this a sign that my Player is just too advanced for my TV or that my TV is starting to wear down?

Actually, it also could be from a bad video cable. I had the same thing with my TV, and a quick switch of my S-video cables fixed everything back up.

[David Hingtgen]

S-video cables are the most finicky of all connection types IMHO. I have yet to find one that actually worked well, I gave up on them and run composite instead. 90% as sharp, but consistent and trouble-free.

[VF-19]

S-video cables are the most finicky of all connection types IMHO. I have yet to find one that actually worked well, I gave up on them and run composite instead. 90% as sharp, but consistent and trouble-free.

Really? I've got everything that's attached to the TV hooked up via S-video (PS2, Gamecube, Dreamcast, DVD), and aside from that bad cable that gave me the lines it works perfectly. At first I thought it was the DVD player that was going, as I use it all the time, but it showed up despite the input source. That made it a bad cable.

[David Hingtgen]

I actually blame the TV more than the cable. I've had multiple TV's that just plain wouldn't accept S-video correctly from multiple things/cables. There are "compatability issues", just as bad as some TV's have with digital inputs.

At the moment, I own nothing that will give me a proper S-video picture. (which is why I research connection compatability so heavily for my next TV---HDMI and component, every system at every resolution)

[Roy Focker]

Okay I'm confused about prices.

I understand that a big tv, 1080p with a name brand will cost. But why does a brand like Sony seem to cost often twice as much as the otherr big name companies featuring a similar tv?.

[eugimon]

Okay I'm confused about prices.

I understand that a big tv, 1080p with a name brand will cost. But why does a brand like Sony seem to cost often twice as much as the otherr big name companies featuring a similar tv?.

because the sony name costs you 20% more. The days when sony tech was noticably better or higher quality than the other guys is in the past, but Sony wants to maintain their elite status. Fortunately, more and more people are catching on that companies like Panasonic and Samsung have offerings that are just as good... if not outright better than a Sony equivalent.

However, there is a big difference in quality and capability between the AAA brands like Sony and Samsung and some of the other brands out there like visio. Usually, the cheaper brands can't compete in terms of contrast ratios (half or less of a sony or samsung), problems with the DSP or pixels going dead after a while. Some chinese brands even have non standard display resolutions and result in wonky images.

If you're budget minded but still want a nice set, I'd say look at the Sharp Aquas. They've had some hardware/quality control issues last year but their sets are nice and color reproduction and contrast ratios are very good. They tend to cost less than comparable samsung sets and way less than sony.

[VF-19]

I actually blame the TV more than the cable. I've had multiple TV's that just plain wouldn't accept S-video correctly from multiple things/cables. There are "compatability issues", just as bad as some TV's have with digital inputs.

At the moment, I own nothing that will give me a proper S-video picture. (which is why I research connection compatability so heavily for my next TV---HDMI and component, every system at every resolution)

Ah, I must be very very lucky then. But still this is good to know. Thanks for the info.

[mikeszekely]

That's better (half the price). I wish all the HTIB's didn't include a DVD player. I can always do better myself and it just adds to the cost. I want receiver and speakers, nothing more really. (plus, with the PS3 apparently being among the best at upscaling normal DVD's, it may see use as my primary player)

One issue I really have to check---TV output vs "do the TV's speakers still work". How I have stuff now, everything is permanently connected. My TV speakers are always on, even when the stereo's on. My TV can't output audio at all, I just have enough splitters that "everything gets audio signals all the time". But for HDMI etc, I'd need to send all the signals to the TV, then have the TV output audio to the stereo or receiver--and many TV's (including my living room Toshiba) don't like to have their own speakers on when they're doing audio output. But I do want the TV speakers on all the time. I like the ability to almost instantly have my "high end" sound come on with a minimal of button-pushing.

::checks:: Yeah, the only TV I have that can do audio out requires you to physically flip a switch on the BACK of the TV to engage it--shutting off the TV's own speakers. Hopefully newer TV's can do it automatically, or just hit a button on the remote? (or even better, keep their own speakers on while doing audio out) (I've downloaded the manual for nearly every TV I'm considering, but most HDTV manuals are almost as bad as a X360's for how little they explain what all the TV can do and what's in the menus)

Well, the one I got, like I said, isn't actually the one in the link, it was only similar. The one I got was actually under $350.

In any case, part of the problem is that it sounds like you're only thinking of the receiver as an audio receiver, or you're only shopping audio receivers. Spend a little more, and get an AV receiver. Then instead of hooking HDMI to the TV, then TV to the receiver, hook your HDMI equipment to the receiver, then the receiver to the HDMI input on the TV. I know the DVD player, at least, winds up sending the audio the receiver, and the receiver plays the sound over the surround sound speakers and the TV speakers.

[David Hingtgen]

Then I would have to always use the receiver, wouldn't I? (if everything was hooked into it) Also, I saw few receivers in the lower end of the price range that had multiple inputs (at least, enough for what I want to hook up). It's going to be all or nothing. Expected stuff to own within 12 months:

360

PS3

HD-DVD (stand-alone)

Upscaling DVD (stand-alone)

Wii

And if I actually hook up cable or something, that'll be another thing.

[mikeszekely]

Then I would have to always use the receiver, wouldn't I? (if everything was hooked into it) Also, I saw few receivers in the lower end of the price range that had multiple inputs (at least, enough for what I want to hook up). It's going to be all or nothing. Expected stuff to own within 12 months:

360

PS3

HD-DVD (stand-alone)

Upscaling DVD (stand-alone)

Wii

And if I actually hook up cable or something, that'll be another thing.

You mean, like if you wanted to play a DVD with only the TV speakers? I guess that would be a problem I'd never considered... but then again, I'm not sure why you'd want to. I mean, my setup at home is basically what you have, except add a PS2 and and my HD-DVD player is the 360's unit. The DVD player and the PS3 are both HDMI, the 360 and Wii are component, all to the receiver. The PS2 is S-Video directly to the TV. For audio, the Wii is still on its component, the DVD is HDMI, the PS3 and 360 are fiber optic Toslink, and I used RCA extension cables to get the PS2's stereo audio to one of the audio-only inputs on the receiver. The reason I went to the trouble was because, even though the speakers on my Toshiba TV are actually pretty good, it didn't have even close to the range that my surround sound system has, and I couldn't stand playing a game with inferior sound. The only thing I use the TV speakers for (I turn them down on the DVD player and the Wii, and the receiver doesn't pass audio-only or Toslink to anything but the surround speakers) is regular TV.

If volume at night is a concern, the surround sound system sounds fine at low volumes, and has a headphone jack. And I don't see how the speaker space should be an issue, aside from the sub the center speaker is the biggest, and I'd say it's maybe 4"x8"x4". If you have other audio equipment, the receiver has dedicated audio-only jacks, so you could add them to your home theater and move their old speakers out. In fact, there's a spare front input on my receiver; I used a headphone to RCA cable and use it for my iPod.

Maybe if I knew more about how your room is laid out and how you want it to be, I could offer better advice.

[eugimon]

David,

Whats the reluctance to get a receiver? Is it the hassle of turning it on? You can get a logitech harmony universal remote, and they are VERY easy to program Macros with, so all you do is hit the "watch tv" button and it will turn on and configure every device you use to watch a tv. Besides, a good AV receiver is something that you can take with you from setup to setup.

[David Hingtgen]

Here's a really rough overhead drawing of my bedroom. TV faces the bed, I generally "sit sideways" on the bed to watch it. So when you're watching TV, the dresser is behind the TV. One stereo speaker is up there, very close to the wall. The other stereo speaker is on the floor, ahead of a bookshelf. They are spaced sightly left and right of the TV itself, just at different heights and several feet behind the TV. (only solution). Trust me when I say I have no room to adjust, nor any inclination to re-arrange. (I predict it'll take me many days to pack up all my model planes and books, just to get the 2 main bookshelves empty when I do move)

Game systems, DVD etc sit ahead of the nightstand.

eugimon--yes, reluctance of turning everything on is a primary issue. I also dislike large/heavy remotes. Maybe if I find the perfect one that doesn't cost a hundred bucks and isn't ginormous. I personally kinda like having a bunch of little remotes running everything separately--I'm just used to it. (Watching a DVD, I often have my TV, DVD, and stereo remotes all laid out ahead of me---TV to adjust brightness/contrast as every DVD and often chapter are different, DVD for pause etc, and stereo to adjust the equalizer).

[eugimon]

Here's a really rough overhead drawing of my bedroom. TV faces the bed, I generally "sit sideways" on the bed to watch it. So when you're watching TV, the dresser is behind the TV. One stereo speaker is up there, very close to the wall. The other stereo speaker is on the floor, ahead of a bookshelf. They are spaced sightly left and right of the TV itself, just at different heights and several feet behind the TV. (only solution). Trust me when I say I have no room to adjust, nor any inclination to re-arrange. (I predict it'll take me many days to pack up all my model planes and books, just to get the 2 main bookshelves empty when I do move)

Game systems, DVD etc sit ahead of the nightstand.

eugimon--yes, reluctance of turning everything on is a primary issue. I also dislike large/heavy remotes. Maybe if I find the perfect one that doesn't cost a hundred bucks and isn't ginormous. I personally kinda like having a bunch of little remotes running everything separately--I'm just used to it. (Watching a DVD, I often have my TV, DVD, and stereo remotes all laid out ahead of me---TV to adjust brightness/contrast as every DVD and often chapter are different, DVD for pause etc, and stereo to adjust the equalizer).

you should really check out the harmony series. They're no bigger than a normal sony remote and they feature an LCD screen that you can map controls to. so if you have a specific function you use often, say aspect, you can map it to one of the lcd buttons. The programming is easy as well, it's a windows app, so no looking up codes and pushing and holding down buttons.

Edited December 3, 2007 by eugimon

[Uxi]

The web app is even easier than the Windows ap with slightly less flashy graphics but the same net effect.

[mikeszekely]

Here's a really rough overhead drawing of my bedroom. TV faces the bed, I generally "sit sideways" on the bed to watch it. So when you're watching TV, the dresser is behind the TV. One stereo speaker is up there, very close to the wall. The other stereo speaker is on the floor, ahead of a bookshelf. They are spaced sightly left and right of the TV itself, just at different heights and several feet behind the TV. (only solution). Trust me when I say I have no room to adjust, nor any inclination to re-arrange. (I predict it'll take me many days to pack up all my model planes and books, just to get the 2 main bookshelves empty when I do move)

Game systems, DVD etc sit ahead of the nightstand.

eugimon--yes, reluctance of turning everything on is a primary issue. I also dislike large/heavy remotes. Maybe if I find the perfect one that doesn't cost a hundred bucks and isn't ginormous. I personally kinda like having a bunch of little remotes running everything separately--I'm just used to it. (Watching a DVD, I often have my TV, DVD, and stereo remotes all laid out ahead of me---TV to adjust brightness/contrast as every DVD and often chapter are different, DVD for pause etc, and stereo to adjust the equalizer).

I'll study the drawing later. Wanna get some Mass Effect in before bed.

Anyway, yeah, I know they're expensive, but the Logitech Harmony remotes are worth every penny and then some. I have the 360 specific one. It takes a little time to set up, but when you're done, you hit the "Activities" button and select an activity. In this case, I'll say "watch a DVD" and use my own setup for reference. It'll turn the TV on, set the TV to HDMI input, turn the receiver on, set it to DVD, and turn the DVD player on. And since every button on the remote is customizable (plus there are four buttons you can label on the LCD, with arrow keys so you can set pages full of custom buttons), you can have it set so that there's a "size" button to adjust the TV picture if you don't like how a particular movie is displayed, the volume buttons will work the receiver's volume, and the stop/play/forward/reverse buttons control the DVD player without having to tell the remote to switch devices. When you're done, hitting the power button will shut everything off, or if you want to watch some TV, hit "Activities" and pick "Watch TV." The remote will shut off the DVD player and receiver, and switch the TV to the cable input.

The remote itself is all set up through a PC with an internet connection (Mac compatible too). Adding devices is as simple as telling the software what kind of device, the make, and the model. And you can set up several Activities with any combination of devices. My Harmony controls my TV, DVD player, Xbox 360, receiver, bedroom TV, and bedroom DVD player. The only other remote I have to use is the Bluetooh one for the PS3, since Harmony remotes don't support Bluetooth. And as far as size goes, it's about as long as my TV remote, but not as wide and half as thin.

EDIT: I'm slightly amused that as I was writing a long post extolling the virtues of a Harmony remote, two other people chimed in. Yeah, David, they really are that good. If you use three or more remotes at a time, I'd say they're a must-have.

Edited December 3, 2007 by mikeszekely

[Amped]

If you're budget minded but still want a nice set, I'd say look at the Sharp Aquas. They've had some hardware/quality control issues last year but their sets are nice and color reproduction and contrast ratios are very good. They tend to cost less than comparable samsung sets and way less than sony.

Just wanted to chime in on the Sharp Aquos. Its an amazing set, awesome contrast, very bright. 3HDMI inputs, USB, etc.... plenty of component jacks. It has an optional (on or off) Dynamic Contrast feature which is interesting & in some cases helps with maintaining detail within dark shadow areas... although it can prove a little irritating in movie scenes that toggle between light & dark rapidly, or often, thereby creating a bit of a strobing effect (in which case you can shut the feature off). I believe its the thinnest LCD in its size segment (at least for the 52") on the market at only 3.5" thick.

Anyhow, I snagged the 52" Aquos for just a hair over 2Gs during a mid-day 'unadvertised' (in-store) sale at Circuit City, about 900 off list. After much research I had narrowed my choices down to either Samsung or Philips as I headed out to hunt down a HD LCD. Ultimately, and somewhat surprisingly, when I arrived at the store the Sharp blew me away & compared very favorably to the Samsung (what I had considered, up to that point, to be the best of the lot).

Of course, for its size & picture quality, the price could not be beat... it may not seem like much, but 52" compared to 46" is a big freakin' difference! Even regular DVDs look phenom-amazing! HD... well thats a whole 'nother level of 'wow'! Well, suffice to say I think the Aquos is a beauty! I seriously wonder if I need to go to the movie theater anymore, now that I have my home theater set up...

[David Hingtgen]

Quick question about remote macros:

Say I have a "play 360" macro programmed. And assume 360 is on component #1, which is the third overall input (after HDMI 1 and 2). How does the remote select component #1? Most TV's remain on their last input when shut off. It can't just always be programmed for "hit input select 3 times", as that'll be different each time depending on what the TV was doing when shut off. Or do you also have to program a "stop playing 360" macro that'll have the TV return to the "first" input selection, so that all other macros have a common reference point for changing input?

[eugimon]

It depends.

Some units have their inidividual inputs/outputs named. My samsung tv is like this, so if I hit "play 360" it automatically switches the tv to HDMI 2, or if I want to play a DVD, it will auto switch to composite 1. It doesn't matter which mode it was in last, the TV knows what mode it's in and it accepts a specific instruction from the remote.

My HTiB has unique settings for DVD and AUX, but AUX also includes my optical in line, so I either need to manually cycle through to the optical input or the other method, you can fine tune the on and off behaviour of the remote, it can even compensate for lag. So, part of the off macros could be cycling AUX 1 and then you would need to program the remote to cycle through the AUX settings X number of times.

I tried it, and it works, but this assumes you will always turn your system off between activities, which is not true for me. So I just mapped one of the optional/LCD buttons in each activity mode so that I could cycle through to the right setting. It's no big deal, and still more convenient than 3 or four seperate remotes.

And yeah, the Aquas is nice. I hope no one got the wrong impression, I'm not lumping it in with the vizios of the world. They are definitely a AAA brand and their image quality is very good but they are considerably cheaper than the other top tier brands.

Edited December 3, 2007 by eugimon

[mikeszekely]

It depends.

Some units have their inidividual inputs/outputs named. My samsung tv is like this, so if I hit "play 360" it automatically switches the tv to HDMI 2, or if I want to play a DVD, it will auto switch to composite 1. It doesn't matter which mode it was in last, the TV knows what mode it's in and it accepts a specific instruction from the remote.

My HTiB has unique settings for DVD and AUX, but AUX also includes my optical in line, so I either need to manually cycle through to the optical input or the other method, you can fine tune the on and off behaviour of the remote, it can even compensate for lag. So, part of the off macros could be cycling AUX 1 and then you would need to program the remote to cycle through the AUX settings X number of times.

I tried it, and it works, but this assumes you will always turn your system off between activities, which is not true for me. So I just mapped one of the optional/LCD buttons in each activity mode so that I could cycle through to the right setting. It's no big deal, and still more convenient than 3 or four seperate remotes.

And yeah, the Aquas is nice. I hope no one got the wrong impression, I'm not lumping it in with the vizios of the world. They are definitely a AAA brand and their image quality is very good but they are considerably cheaper than the other top tier brands.

What he said. I think pushing "input" on a TV remote is pretty much just for SDTVs with only two or three inputs, and 1st gen HDTVs. Most HDTVs today have too many inputs to make that practical. My TV has two cable, two component, one HDMI, and two or three S/composite. When you hit "input," the names of all the inputs come up with a number, and you hit a number to go directly to that input.

Can't comment on the receiver's remote... I got it open box missing the remote, which was how I got it so cheap. (I made a sales clerk hook everything up so I could make sure that everything was working, though.) On the face of the receiver is a knob that you turn to cycle through, but when I added it to Harmony, Harmony gave it separate buttons for each input. Chances are, if you buy a HTiB that has a dedicated A/V receiver instead of a DVD player you can add some audio inputs too, it's going to have enough options to warrant more than just hitting "input" until you get where you're going. Yeah, you'll pay a little more, but you'll end up with a device that doubles as an input switcher (handy when you start running out of HDMI inputs), the DVD player being a separate unit means you can take it out and replace it with one of your choosing, and chances are it probably has better sound. I'm not knocking the Samsung HTiBs, I bought one myself five years ago and replaced it recently when because I needed more inputs. It was one of the better decisions I made.

Oh, and I was getting a little off track, but it's also worth noting that at any time with a Harmony remote, you can hit the "Devices" key to get dedicated controls for a single device. More of a pain than just programing extra buttons on the LCD for an Activity, but less of a pain than carrying a crapload of remotes.

[David Hingtgen]

Checking manuals:

Only two of the TV's I'm considering have the option to actually choose inputs by number. All the others are "tap button several times". And many of them skip ones that aren't "currently active", so it'd actually vary every time depending on what's turned on. Could be VERY hard to program a macro.

[Ladic]

Try Sears, I got 2 harmony remotes (xbox360 versions) for $36 a piece, kept one and ebayed the other for 75 to cover my costs.

I think ALL sears are selling them for that cheap, they are getting rid of them, the problem you might have is finding one, almost all have none left in stock.

But if you go to a sears, see if they have any in stock.

[David Hingtgen]

Are the 360 versions really different from "normal" versions? Or is it just their color scheme or what?

[Dangard Ace]

Word of caution on the Aquos. The older series, like the 62u and 72u series have banding issues. Apparently this has been corrected in the 64u series.

[eugimon]

Are the 360 versions really different from "normal" versions? Or is it just their color scheme or what?

they have the X Y A B buttons already mapped, otherwise, the same. You can always map the LCD buttons to those buttons on a regular harmony

[Roy Focker]

I got my Blu-Ray 5 Disc summer offer today. The replaced one with happy feet plus it looks like the packaged was ripped open before getting to me.

[Amped]

Word of caution on the Aquos. The older series, like the 62u and 72u series have banding issues. Apparently this has been corrected in the 64u series.

Indeed you are correct; sounds like banding was a problem with the older models. I have the 64U and its picture-perfect. If there was banding I'd be pissed, and rightly so... it'd be going right back to the store.

Edited December 4, 2007 by Amped

[Uxi]

All of the Harmony's are effectively the same remote. The only thing you pay more for is size of the screen and whether it's color not, and how many soft buttons you want.

I have a Harmony 720 and love it. Good sized color screen and not nearly as bulky as the awkward peanut shape of the 880/890. Backlighting is perfect and it has a cradle/charger.

[David Hingtgen]

Any 64 series 32in Sharps? I've seen their 62 series 32in 1080p's in person, and they have banding. It's subtle, but it's there. ::checks Sharp site:: Nope, 32's only come with banding.

[marimba]

I'll just stay real quiet about my Sony TV, Phillips Pronto remote, and Paradigm Reference speakers...

[eugimon]

I'll just stay real quiet about my Sony TV, Phillips Pronto remote, and Paradigm Reference speakers...

thats tacky, if you're going to brag, just brag, don't be all coy about it. We all would love to hear about your high end setup, we're not going to let a little thing like jealousy get in the way of AV goodness.