High Definition Media & Technology Thread

[David Hingtgen]

At this point, I wouldn't buy any equipment that wasn't upgradeable in some way. Whether it's a TV or player, it better be able to connect to the net, or have a USB port, or something, so that it can get the latest updates/software/drivers. The days of just plugging in a TV are long gone. New TV's have as many odd quirks and compatability issues as a PC of the early 90's. A lot of 2007 HDTV's are on their 3rd or 4th driver update. Except the ones that can't be upgraded. (interestingly, the ones that can't update don't seem to have any/many issues) (just from my 32in research)

[Nied]

Way to misread my post. Gold star. Won't because it makes no sense for them to do so. They're going Bluray, are under contract to support HD DVD until May 2007 and will do so but not in a way that will promote it. They no longer have a vested interest in HD DVD so will do the minimum allowed to complete their contract while promoting their day-and-date Bluray releases. Sure this screws over the current owners of HD DVD players but WB chose Bluray as the format that has the best chance to grow HDM into a mainstream product. ONE format can do this easier then two. Bluray was chosen as that format.

A choice made by WB which now has to be forced on consumers. Do you not see the difference?

neutral[/u] studio, stated that that they would make a decision to go with one format at the end of 2007 Q4 or 2008 Q1 after the holidays. Well consumers voted with their wallets and the results were not in favor of HD DVD. I'm sure if the market said HD DVD would win they'd have gone HD DVD and we'd be hearing the exact same argument except from the BD side.

Actually I've been format neutral, however given Sony's abhorent business practices I wasn't exactly hoping Blu-Ray would win (and yes I'm well aware that there are more companies than just Sony on the BDA but Sony's been the main driver behind the format). WB being the only format neutral studio is actually a good point in my favor. During the VHS Beta war both formats had full studio support and it came down to consumer choice on which one won. This time it came down to which big studio put out the most successful titles (with two big Disney blockbusters as a Blu-Ray exclusives I'm not surprised the numbers are what they were). Although my criticism would be a little more muted had HD-DVD won (I like it's lack of region encoding and extra DRM cruft) I'd still be making these complaints.

Or we can argue that WB got paid out to go Blu. Not substantiated since the head of WB denies it and no outside source has yet to verify the payout. Paramount who went HD DVD though got paid out. There were links within days of that news from NYT or Businessweek quoting insider/high level management sources screaming about the payout(can't remember which but it'd be easy to google). Consumers didn't get a choice from Paramount at all. I'm still pissed I had to get an HD-D3 just to watch Transformers, which they pulled the BD HiDef version just days before release. I guess that payoff they received back then worked.

Now who's bitter? It's interesting how WB's head worded his answer to the payoff question though, he didn't say no, his exact words were "I wish" which gives quite a bit more wiggle room. You are correct that the payoff rumours haven't been substantiated but I wouldn't exactly be shocked if they were.

How about a post from a HighDefDigest thread? They've got a better salesperson example then I did.

That's a more plausible scenario but in the end it's still about WB pushing consumers to Blu-Ray, rather then letting it die off from unpopularity as they have claimed.

Edited January 13, 2008 by Nied

[Nied]

I hate to say it Nied, but it seems you're being intentionally obtuse for the sake of making a smarmy statement. Dangard's theory is more plausible than most I've read in this thread. Why bash it with an inane comment like that?

That did come off snarkier than I intended, sorry about that. The point still stands though, I find it hard to beilieve a few Best Buy or Circuit City employees who are hD-DVD die hards are going to so bungle WB's move to Blu-Ray (especially when given how clearly WB claims consumers are going for Blu-Ray).

[Nied]

Huh, I guess more people are telling 'lies' about BD. Some people appear not happy that early BD players can't properly play 1.1 or 2.0 version BD discs:

http://www.betanews.com/article/Bluray_Ear...into/1199841379

Hopefully some BD enthusiasts can email these poor saps and just tell them they're the victim of lies and just lack first hand knowledge.

I love that the BDA's excuse is that they would have released a finished format if HD-DVD didn't come out first.

They're competing with us it's not fair!

[Dangard Ace]

That did come off snarkier than I intended, sorry about that. The point still stands though, I find it hard to beilieve a few Best Buy or Circuit City employees who are hD-DVD die hards are going to so bungle WB's move to Blu-Ray (especially when given how clearly WB claims consumers are going for Blu-Ray).

Who said it was? I used that as an example of irate customers. You're the one who's intentionally claiming a possible example I made as being a disastrous scenario for WB.

A choice made by WB which now has to be forced on consumers. Do you not see the difference?

I already replied to this in my second paragraph. You say WB made that choice. I say that customers made their choice for them by consumer spending during the holiday season. Non-media buying consumers made their choice by choosing not to buy until this format war is decided by the choosers/early adopters. That in itself is a choice. All consumers chose whether by their action or inactions.

Actually I've been format neutral, however given Sony's abhorent business practices I wasn't exactly hoping Blu-Ray would win (and yes I'm well aware that there are more companies than just Sony on the BDA but Sony's been the main driver behind the format). WB being the only format neutral studio is actually a good point in my favor. During the VHS Beta war both formats had full studio support and it came down to consumer choice on which one won. This time it came down to which big studio put out the most successful titles (with two big Disney blockbusters as a Blu-Ray exclusives I'm not surprised the numbers are what they were). Although my criticism would be a little more muted had HD-DVD won (I like it's lack of region encoding and extra DRM cruft) I'd still be making these complaints.

Anti-Sony bias. Got it.

Neutral only works if everyone is neutral. Having ONE neutral company does not help end the format war and being as it's one with major titles, only extends it as the average consumer will not buy into any format for fear of being left with a lemon like the Betamax. They're going to sit and wait until it's over. Who wins with a delayed format winner announced? Not us hidef consumer since we have to buy two players to play two different formats.

Now who's bitter? It's interesting how WB's head worded his answer to the payoff question though, he didn't say no, his exact words were "I wish" which gives quite a bit more wiggle room. You are correct that the payoff rumours haven't been substantiated but I wouldn't exactly be shocked if they were.

That's a more plausible scenario but in the end it's still about WB pushing consumers to Blu-Ray, rather then letting it die off from unpopularity as they have claimed.

Bitter regarding Paramounts business decision? Damn right but I bought it eventually. Paramount a neutral company deciding on a side and making a choice for consumers? Unthinkable!

WB is pushing their consumers to Bluray because that is what their collected data said that customers were buying. They were never going to remain neutral after Q4. Complaining about that isn't going to change it. Neutral worked for the BetaMax/VHS war. That was 30 years ago. Lines were drawn before day 1 of this format war. Different war different tactics.

[Gaijin]

A choice made by WB which now has to be forced on consumers. Do you not see the difference?

They gave HD DVD a year and a half, and it was outsold constantly by BD, which launched later than HD DVD and as put by many, was incomplete. Do you think they should continue to sell both, when one clearly outsells the other to this day?

Wasn't Paramount switching sides a few months ago, "forcing" HD DVD on consumers as well? Lotsa purple people would agree. The one difference is WB is drawing a line in the sand, as are most retailers around the country (you'll see it soon enough).

People who saw HD DVD's price hardware savings forget or don't know what it took behind the scenes to get those prices...and in the CE world, no one else wanted to do it. ANd not even that swayed enough people.

Edited January 14, 2008 by Gaijin

[Uxi]

On a funny note wrt the Format War and Warner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ

[Gaijin]

On a funny note wrt the Format War and Warner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ

That was pretty funny. I liked the Bill Hunt comment!

[Dangard Ace]

Toshiba is fighting back with new round of aggressive MSRP price cuts.

http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story...NEM041/GIStory/

Toshiba Deploys New HD DVD Marketing Initiatives Based on Strong Fourth Quarter Unit Sales

00:01 EST Monday, January 14, 2008

Mass Market Acceptance Confirms that HD DVD is the Consumer's Choice for Next Generation High Def Entertainment

WAYNE, N.J., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- Toshiba America Consumer Products, L.L.C. ("Toshiba") today announced that it is stepping up its successful marketing campaign for HD DVD as it experienced record-breaking unit sales in the fourth quarter of 2007. Major initiatives, including joint advertising campaigns with studios and extended pricing strategies will begin in mid- January and are designed to spotlight the superior benefits of HD DVD as well as the benefits HD DVD brings to a consumer's current DVD library by upconverting standard DVDs via the HDMI™ output to near high definition picture quality.

As Toshiba achieved the #1 sales volume in the next generation DVD category with an approximately 50 percent market share in 2007, HD DVD is proven to be the format of choice for consumers. Coupled with an 80 percent plus market share of all next generation DVD equipped notebooks for the 4th quarter 2007, the HD DVD format has already paved the way to a high definition digital AV solution by eliminating the boundaries between the consumer's living room and on the go.

HD DVD not only creates the ultimate high definition entertainment experience, leveraging all of the promise of the format such as superior audio/video performance, Web-enabled network capabilities and advanced interactive features - it also has a high-level of compatibility with DVD. With DVD upconversion via the HDMI output, HD DVD players instantly make a movie lover's existing DVD library look better than ever.

"HD DVD is the best way to watch movies in high definition," said Jodi Sally, Vice President of Marketing, Toshiba's Digital A/V Group. "Our HD DVD players not only play back approximately 800 HD DVD titles available worldwide and deliver an entirely new level of entertainment but also enhance the picture quality to near high definition on legacy DVD titles by all studios. In short, we added high def to DVD which already is the de facto standard format created and approved by the DVD Forum that consists of more than two hundred companies."

New Marketing Strategy for Mass Market Adoption

Taking the holiday season sales based on promotional prices into full consideration, these new manufacturer's suggested retail prices (MSRP) are designed to meet the potential demand for HD DVD players in the U.S. market. Effective on January 13, 2008 the MSRP of the entry-model HD-A3 will be $149.99, the HD-A30, with 1080p output, $199.99, and the high-end HD-A35, $299.99.

"While price is one of the consideration elements for the early adopter, it is a deal-breaker for the mainstream consumer," said Yoshi Uchiyama, Group Vice President Digital A/V Group. "Consumer sales this holiday season have proven that the consumer awareness of the HD DVD format has been elevated and pricing is the most critical determinant in consumers' purchase decision of

the next generation HD DVD technology. The value HD DVD provides to the consumer simply cannot be ignored."

Extended Advertising Campaign

Toshiba plans to execute an extended advertising campaign that will further enhance consumer awareness of the benefits of HD DVD and drive sales to retail among potential consumers. Advertising strategies will include television, print and online media channels. Toshiba will also work with its dealers and studio partners on joint marketing and promotional initiatives to promote HD DVD. Current promotions include "The Perfect HD Offer" - a mail-in offer allowing consumers to select five HD DVD titles for free from a selection of 15 with the purchase of any Toshiba HD DVD player.

Consistent Viewing Experience and More

With advanced interactivity and Web-enabled network capabilities built into every HD DVD player through a dedicated Ethernet port as mandated by the specifications approved by the DVD Forum, Toshiba delivers on the promise of a consistent entertainment experience through firmware updates as studios launch new applications. HD DVD allows studios to flex their creative muscle in ways never before seen. The latest of these new experiences is online streaming. Now, when consumers connect their HD DVD player to the Internet, they can stream new content or trailers, as available, directly from a movie studio's server.

Universal Home Video, Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG have reported that an average of 30 percent of HD DVD owners have accessed Web- enabled network features and continue to do so regularly.

Ongoing Customer Commitment

In order to ensure that its customers will receive complete satisfaction from their new players, Toshiba introduced the "HD DVD Concierge" earlier this month. Consumers can now call 1-888-MY HDDVD (1-888-694-3383) for answers to general questions about HD DVD, for operational assistance or for assistance with various promotions.

About Toshiba HD DVD Players

With the HD DVD format, select HD DVD players allow consumers to experience true high def 1080p for extraordinary resolution that matches the latest state of the art 1080p HDTVs. These same players display images at 24 frames per second, the same frame rate used by directors when using film to create motion pictures, for a smoother, more film-like, viewing experience.

Important Notes:

HD DVD with high-definition content required for HD viewing. Up- conversion of DVD content will result in near HD picture quality. Viewing high-definition content and up-converting DVD content may require an HDCP capable DVI or HDMI input on your display device. 1080p capable display required for viewing content in 1080p. Firmware update may be required for some interactive features depending on content, which may also require an always-on broadband internet connection. Some features may require additional bandwidth. To take advantage of web-enabled network content, installing the latest firmware (ver.2.4 for HD DVD player models HD-XA1, HD-A1, and HD-D1; ver.2.7 for HD-XA2, HD-A2, HD-A2W, HD-D2, HD-A2C, and HD-A20; and ver.1.3 for HD-A35, HD-A30, and HD-A3) is required. Web-enabled network features require an always on broadband connection along with specific movie titles that include this form of content. For 24p output, content that was created in 1080p/24 frames/sec is required. Viewing 24p output requires an HD display capable of accepting a 1080p/24Hz signal. Use of REGZA Link, which is a feature based on HDMI-CEC, requires an HDMI-CEC compatible display device. Depending on the specifications of your TV, some or all REGZA Link functions may not work even if your TV is HDMI-CEC compatible. Dolby® Digital Plus, Dolby® TrueHD and DTS® support for up to 5.1 channels (DTS HD® support for DTS® core only). MP3/WMA audio files not supported. HDMI audio output requires connection to a PCM capable device. Because HD DVD is a new format that makes use of new technologies, certain disc, digital connection and other compatibility and/or performance issues are possible. This may, in rare cases, include disc freezing while accessing certain disc features or functions, or certain parts of the disc not playing back or operating as fully intended. If you experience such issues, please refer to the FAQ sections of www.toshibahddvd.com or www.tacp.toshiba.com for information on possible work- around solutions or the availability of firmware updates that may resolve your problem, or contact Toshiba Customer Solutions. Some features subject to delayed availability. While every effort has been made at the time of publication to ensure the accuracy of the information provided herein, product specifications, configurations, system/component/options availability are all subject to change without notice.

About Toshiba America Consumer Products, L.L.C.

Toshiba America Consumer Products, L.L.C. is owned by Toshiba America, Inc., a subsidiary of Toshiba Corporation, a world leader in high technology products with subsidiaries worldwide. Toshiba is a pioneer in HD DVD, DVD and DVD Recorder technology and a leading manufacturer of a full line of home entertainment products, including flat panel TV, combination products and portable devices. Toshiba America Consumer Products, L.L.C. is headquartered in Wayne, New Jersey. For additional information, please visit www.tacp.toshiba.com.

SOURCE Toshiba America Consumer Products, L.L.C.

For further information: Nicole Lawler, BRODEUR, +1-617-587-2024, nlawler@brodeur.com, for Toshiba America Consumer Products, L.L.C.

© PR Newswire

[Oihan]

Toshiba is fighting back with new round of aggressive MSRP price cuts.

http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story...NEM041/GIStory/

Well, I'm glad they're not giving up the fight! I'd rather see this war drag on for years than have it end now. Competition is good for the consumer! What I hope for in the end is that both formats will still exist and we'll have HD-DVD/Blu-ray player combo players at the price of regular DVD players today.

[David Hingtgen]

Should have announced this at CES. They waited too long, and now it's just pointless. Cancelling the CES conference was just flat out saying "we lost and have given up". It would have taken 5 mins to decide to cut the MSRP and write up this press release at CES. Have a shorter conference, but at least have SOMETHING, and not abandon the biggest show of the year.

[mikeszekely]

Toshiba is fighting back with new round of aggressive MSRP price cuts.

http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story...NEM041/GIStory/

Too little, too late.

[EXO]

Too little, too late.

Yeah, it looks more like a blowout than a retaliation...

HD-DVD = going bye bye!

[JsARCLIGHT]

Kind of an empty question, but what would people think HD DVD would need to gain a resurgence?

Outside of Sony getting busted for transporting Coke in their blu ray shipments or something else that harms the BD camp, is it even possible for HD DVD to stage a comeback now?

[EXO]

Sales... lots of freakin sales!

[JsARCLIGHT]

Every scenario I can think of relies heavily on the BD camp falling apart somehow. Sales are one thing but they'd really need their competition to have a galactic failure... and so far if you believe the numbers the fight has been in BD's favor the whole time. I mean, no matter what HD DVD does right now it seems to me like they'd have to have the BD camp totally poop their pants to have any hope of regaining ground let alone pulling ahead.

[David Hingtgen]

Cut player prices to insane levels. 50 to 100 bucks. Make it so people think "I'd be stupid NOT to buy one of these". Then offer ANY 5 movies, not "5 from 15 sucky ones". ESTABLISH, then profit. And try to buy off Lucas's support.

And it needs to be posted again, as it's that awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ

[JsARCLIGHT]

From all I've seen Lucas is a blind Blu Ray camper. Plus he is one of the guys who gets something in his head and keeps it there (remember his maniacal devotion to laser disc?). Cutting prices and giving away stuff is a sure way to move product short term... but long term does HD DVD have a future? Without the wide studio support that Blu Ray seems to be garnering does HD DVD have "staying power"? If Paramount jumps ship leaving only Universal, and with the majority of Universal's best properties tied up because their directors favor Blu Ray and would most likely fight HD DVD exclusivity, the future doesn't look too bright.

I would say that cutting the prices and winning the "price war" is a good first step. Step two is pay Paramount/Dreamworks any dollar amount to get them to stay HD DVD only. Third is wrangle contractual agreements (or just plain "drop the bomb") with Universal to release all their big name movies on HD DVD despite their director's protests (Jaws, Jurassic Park, Back to the Future, ET and so forth). Fourth is to literally "buy back" support... in other words bankroll some more supporters. A good place to start would be 20th Century Fox. If HD DVD could somehow buy off Fox they would get quite the feather in their cap. The loss of Warner Brothers would be minimized if they could take Fox... they can't of course, but it would be quite a coup.

[Dangard Ace]

To turn it around and win the war? They need content people want to buy.

1) HD DVD already had the price war won. The players are cheap enough but there isn't enough content people want to buy or want to re-buy in HD. Plus bring in more CE manufacturers. I hate having no choice but to buy from one CE-Toshiba. Unfortunately with their last price cuts I can't see how any new CE can price to match Toshiba players and still make a profit. Onyko bowed out because they weren't making any profit when they tried to make HD DVD players and I'm not even going to touch the bargain brand Venturer players since in essence they're just repackaged A3's. Toshiba's being the only game in town for HD DVD hardware means failure to me.

2) Price of their cheaper to produce media to be lower then Blurays. They harp and harp about how it's easier and cheaper to produce HD DVD's compared to Bluray but it's priced exactly the same or higher in stores. Make me feel like I'm not getting ripped off when buying your media and I'll support you. If I save $200 buying an HD DVD player instead of a Bluray player but I buy 100 movies at $2-3 more per disc meaning I lose $200-$300 I'm going for the more expensive player but cheaper media option. Especially when I handle the two physical media, Bluray just feels smoother and sturdier and less prone to the ailments of DVD's that HD DVD is.

3) Content. Content. Content. I don't care how cheap your players are or how big your perceived catalog is, if you're not releasing the content I want to buy I'm not buying your content. They have to release the A-list content that people will watch and enjoy over and over again. Releasing stuff like Blades of Glory or The Bee Movie/Shrek 3 to go up against Spiderman and Pixar... no way I'm choosing HD DVD. They have to release stuff like Schindlers List, Shakespeare in Love, Gladiator, ET, Jaws, etc and give it the star treatment that Disney does when they release their movies and I'll buy.

[eugimon]

I've actually always thought the HD-DVD library was superior to the BD library... with the HUGE exception of the Disney/Pixar libraries. I'd rather have the Bourne trilogy over Spiderman and movies like eastern promises and the kingdom are much more interesting to me then resident evil.

And now, while I wanted to buy the director's edition of Zodiac, I'll just wait out Paramount's HD-DVD trist until I can get it on BD. I'm hoping Disney doesn't make us wait to long before the Studio Ghibli collection makes its way to BD.

[mikeszekely]

Kind of an empty question, but what would people think HD DVD would need to gain a resurgence?

Outside of Sony getting busted for transporting Coke in their blu ray shipments or something else that harms the BD camp, is it even possible for HD DVD to stage a comeback now?

As David said, Toshiba would have to start selling players at DVD player prices. Then they'd have to get Microsoft to throw money at Universal and lock them into HD-DVD. Finally, Universal would have to stop selling standard DVDs, and release all of their movies from here on out as those dual format HD-DVDs, at the standard DVD price point (seriously, HD-DVDs were only supposed to cost cents more than a regular DVD, so why were we paying $10-$20 more for them?). Then everyone looking for something to play in the DVD players they already own would be buying HD-DVDs. That would have taken the war out of the niche market and put HD-DVD in the mainstream, if only something like that would have happened after Paramount signed on.

[eugimon]

Well, I think HD-DVD people got greedy.

They talk about how much cheaper the hd-dvds were to manufacture but didn't pass those savings onto consumers.

They should have sold the discs at 25$ retail and sold ONLY the combo discs and completely phased out SD DVDs. If they had included the 2nd disc of SE content at the 30 dollar pice point, then consumers would have a built-in upgrade path.

[Ghadrack]

I think another significant factor in the "format war" that has been largely left out of the debate is the late adopters, the people who only change formats when they are literally forced to. I think everyone's grandmother still uses the VCR, my mom, aunts, uncles, grandmother all still have standard TV's most of them just got DVD players in the last couple years and cling tenaciously to their old VHS collections as though they were prized vinyl albums.

When DVD players first came out they were expensive (My top of the line Panasonic AC-3 decoder model was $600.00) There was very little content came in a constant trickle but it took years and years for lots of the covetted titles to get released like where we are right now with the HDDVD/Blu-Ray situation. Those "Late Adopters" didn't come rushing in throwing money around early. I think with this format war, and one of the big factors in Warner's decision was, that if they didn't have a single format out there, those late adopters would just sit this entire round of format out completely. I think that they are more concerned with the people who haven't spent money right now than those who have already chosen a system.

Toshiba and HDDVD probably won't make it that far but early 2009 is when a truly pivotal battle could be fought, when standard definition TV goes Bye-Bye and a zillion HD sets are sold, shortly thereafter, when the "I hate them black bars on mah teevee" crowd gets HD sets and see's the grainy image quality of older poor transfer DVD's next to their HD American Gladiators, the company with a cheapo HD content player will make a killing.

[Uxi]

Cut player prices to insane levels. 50 to 100 bucks. Make it so people think "I'd be stupid NOT to buy one of these". Then offer ANY 5 movies, not "5 from 15 sucky ones". ESTABLISH, then profit. And try to buy off Lucas's support.

They would still be missing 70% of the exclusive content available on the other format. There's no hope... not even for coexistence at this point. They can merely try to prolong the inevitable.

And it needs to be posted again, as it's that awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ

Indeed.

"Blades of Glory is still one of our exclusive titles..."

"Blades of Glory?!! Are you F@%!#& kidding me?!!"

I laugh out loud whenever I watch this clip. Downfall was a good movie, too.

[bandit29]

Win 100 Blu-rays contest at Amazon

here

Win 100 HD-DVDs contest at Amazon

here

[Dangard Ace]

Question:

flipping channels (NBC www.wgrz.com) and their 5 o'clock news tech segment just reported that Paramount was backing Bluray and not HD DVD anymor. Didn't find anything online about this even on their website. Did anybody see this segment too or did WGRZ screwup?

[eugimon]

huh, it would be good news if it were true, but I don't see anyone else reporting on this.

[David Hingtgen]

Couldn't find anything about Paramount, but I did find proof that Sony in Germany is giving you 150 Euros off a BluRay player, if you bring in your HD-DVD for trade. And they may expand that deal to the UK.

[mikeszekely]

I've heard that a few old Paramount films are turning up on Blu-ray at Amazon, but nothing to confirm that they're even supporting Blu-ray, let alone dumping HD-DVD in favor of them. I wish Paramount would just get it over with already. I need a new game, and if I knew that Transformers was coming to Blu-ray, I'd happily sell my HD-DVD equipment tomorrow.

Edited January 29, 2008 by mikeszekely

[JsARCLIGHT]

If no other outlets are carrying the info then it's most likely a goof.

I sure as hell hope Paramount releases Indy soon. With the new movie due out in May you'd think a HD release of the originals is in the cards somewhere... and seeing as Spielberg and Lucas only like Blu Ray that sort of lines up some planets I'd think...

[mikeszekely]

Does anyone know which version of Robocop is on the Blu-ray? I have the Criterion DVD, and after seeing that version, I don't think I could go back to the theatrical release. However, I'm not loving the Criterion version's audio (actually, I'm not loving DVD in general anymore... upconverting the video can only do so much, and the audio just can't compete with Blu-ray or HD-DVD).

[David Hingtgen]

This would be a great time to post a pic I found, comparing different resolutions. Everything is re-scaled to match each other, so it's as if you saw each format on the same size TV. It's from "I, Robot" if you've never seen the movie.

Slight issue though---it appears to be a PAL DVD, not NTSC. So DVDs in the USA and Japan look even worse, as NTSC DVD is encoded at only 480p instead of 576p. Anyone know of a similar pic that shows 480 vs 720 vs 1080? Or is the "Xvid1" at top basically 480?

[DJ Loe Kee]

lol, trade in your hd dvd player for 150 euros when you buy a blu-ray player if you live in germany.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/29/germa...dvd-player-trad

i had a news source sayin' that sony is not sure if they will extend it to the uk or not but i can't find it right now (dammit google news).

[mikeszekely]

This would be a great time to post a pic I found, comparing different resolutions. Everything is re-scaled to match each other, so it's as if you saw each format on the same size TV. It's from "I, Robot" if you've never seen the movie.

Slight issue though---it appears to be a PAL DVD, not NTSC. So DVDs in the USA and Japan look even worse, as NTSC DVD is encoded at only 480p instead of 576p. Anyone know of a similar pic that shows 480 vs 720 vs 1080? Or is the "Xvid1" at top basically 480?

The difference between 720p and 1080p isn't as noticeable as you might think, is it?

[Gaijin]

Does anyone know which version of Robocop is on the Blu-ray? I have the Criterion DVD, and after seeing that version, I don't think I could go back to the theatrical release. However, I'm not loving the Criterion version's audio (actually, I'm not loving DVD in general anymore... upconverting the video can only do so much, and the audio just can't compete with Blu-ray or HD-DVD).

I have the Blu-ray and the Criterion, not to mention the Trilogy pack from MGM awhile back. The Blu-ray is the same director's cut as the Criterion version. It is a step up from either DVD, video and audio wise but not a terrific looking release either. But is the best lookingb and sound ing version out so far. No extras except the theatrical trailer though. It is basically the same as the original BD release last year that was pulled.