High Definition Media & Technology Thread

[David Hingtgen]

I could actually use that, but I'm keeping my old sony. You just can't find high-quality 20in CRT's anymore. I need to keep mine forever, to play lagless PSX and PS2 and SNES games forever on a screen where they'll actually look good... (same reason I'm keeping my PSX and PStwo---you never know when some obscure incompatability will crop up)

[Ishimaru]

$100?

Still not convincable enough, considering how expensive Sony TVs are its like they are taking off some of they money that you get ripped off from, or something like that.

[Gaijin]

Blu-ray still leading.

Paramount switch does nothing.

[Gaijin]

$100?

Still not convincable enough, considering how expensive Sony TVs are its like they are taking off some of they money that you get ripped off from, or something like that.

No one's going to dump a flat panel..they are talking old tubes which are being dumped at the dumps...of which I doubt anyone would give you more than $100 for if you are going to dump anyways.

[eugimon]

No one's going to dump a flat panel..they are talking old tubes which are being dumped at the dumps...of which I doubt anyone would give you more than $100 for if you are going to dump anyways.

yup, I gave my 20ish" wega away to my sister-in-law when I bought my LCD. Wasn't worth trying to get a buyer on craigslist. But honestly, even if they had this program when I was in the market, I STILL wouldn't have gone with Sony.

[mikeszekely]

Blu-ray still leading.

Paramount switch does nothing.

Imagine that, an article about Blu-ray "dominating" on a website dedicated to Blu-ray. So there are more PS3s out there than stand-alone HD-DVD players... there's also more 360 HD-DVD players out there than stand-alone Blu-ray players. And yeah, Blu-ray discs are outselling HD-DVDs 2-1, but if you want to use that argument, plain-vanilla DVDs are winning the format war, because they're still outselling Blu-ray and HD-DVD combined by, what, 10-1? 100-1? By the end of April (don't feel like digging around for more recent numbers) combined Blu-ray sales since the launch of the format were up over 1.2 million, HD-DVD sales just under a million, and Happy Feet alone sold 4 million regular DVDs... in a week.

Both sides are going to spin things as positively as they can, but I wouldn't read into any of it too much. Even Sony boss Sir Howard Stringer called the format war a stalemate. And according to Forrester Research, the deadlock's likely to continue until 2009 or later. The bottom line is that we're all early adopters, and it's not going to be us who decides this one. It's going to be up to the Joe Walmarts who are waiting for $15 new releases, sub-$100 players, and $10 discount bins. In that sense, it's still anyone's ball game.

Both camps, apparently, have good news, though. The Diffusion Group's idea that people buy tech in waves is pretty interesting, and it sort of ties into that whole early adopters vs. Joe Walmart thing.

Now, me personally, I don't really care. I've got a PS3 and an Xbox 360 HD-DVD. I own discs in both formats. I'm eying an LG Blu-ray/HD-DVD combo drive for a home theater PC I'm building. I just want my movies in high-def; I'll buy them in whatever format turns up first at the used movie store by my house. As combo players come down in price, probably a lot of people will be using that method of picking a format. But I've noticed, Gaijin, that you've been really gung-ho for Blu-ray all the way back to when Sony and Toshiba were still talking about the possibility of a hybrid disc. Any particular reason?

[David Hingtgen]

At this point, I plan to buy a standalone HD-DVD player. Whatever I can get for a bit under 200 or so. (And Transformers, Batman Begins, Planet Earth, and Blade Runner) I will buy a PS3 when FF13 comes out.

[David Hingtgen]

Possibly stupid question:

With Blu and HD discs taking so long to load (and WHY do they?) does that affect "normal" operations of skipping chapters, fast-forwarding, etc? I mean, if it takes a disc 55 secs just to eject, (same problem I have with printers that take 45 secs to turn on) does that mean the player is always needlessly wasting time for the most basic of tasks?

[myk]

I can sort of comment on this; my PS3 has no problems with the actions you've mentioned, although after forward or reversing the audio takes a second or two to come on again.

Like everyone else is saying, the PS3 and the 360 HD are the fastest performing players on the market...

[JsARCLIGHT]

I'll have to second that.

I just got finished watching The Road Warrior on Blu Ray on my PS3 and it loaded lightning fast and when I skipped ahead a chapter it skipped lightning fast. Earlier today I watched Dune on my Xbox HD DVD drive and once again super fast load, play and skips. Now, if you are including the time that it takes for the console to completely turn on from being "off" then I can sort of see the complaints but from the moment I insert a disc to when I start watching a movie I'm never once looking at my watch saying "why the hell is this taking so long?".

[NSJ23]

Well I got a PS3 and that is my Blu-ray player, only have two movies Live free and die hard and the simpsons moive. on this 32" LCD TV Samsung LN-S3251D.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sam...7-31787622.html

So far i'm happy and don't have the space or funds to get a bigger TV at this time.

[mikeszekely]

Possibly stupid question:

With Blu and HD discs taking so long to load (and WHY do they?) does that affect "normal" operations of skipping chapters, fast-forwarding, etc? I mean, if it takes a disc 55 secs just to eject, (same problem I have with printers that take 45 secs to turn on) does that mean the player is always needlessly wasting time for the most basic of tasks?

It's kind of like video games. Y'know, back in the day, you stuffed a game in the NES, turned on the power, and BAM! There was the title screen. Now you have to wait for the console to boot. It takes more processing power to decode HD than SD, so it takes longer for the players to boot. As manufacturing costs come down, that should improve. I know my friend has both an HD-A1 and an HD-A2, and the A2 is much faster.

I haven't messed with his equipment much, but I've skipped around plenty on the PS3 and the Xbox 360. The PS3 takes longer to boot than the 360, but I think it loads movies faster. Once they're going, both skip as quick and easy as a regular DVD in a regular DVD player.

[David Hingtgen]

I'm currently looking at the A30----only 250 right now at BB. Hopefully it'll go LOWER in the future, and not shoot back up over 300 once the Xmas sales are over. (A30 does 1080p, A3 doesn't---trying to future-proof where possible) (hey, with many TV's I'm interested in coming down 150 to 200 from just 6-8 weeks ago, I should be able to swing a TV and HD player----assuming prices don't rebound to Sept/Oct pricing soon)

[Alpha OTS]

Earlier today I watched Dune on my Xbox HD DVD drive and once again super fast load, play and skips.

How is Dune? Does it have the Smithee version like the last set to come out? I just found out that it's on HD, but I'm hesitant to pick it up because of releases like the Last Starfighter that aren't that much better than the standard dvd release.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Well, to be honest the picture is crap. Lots of grain, lots of dirt specs and even a stray hair or two. The colors are quite muted, the detail in objects simply is not there and the sound quality is somehow tinny but still dull. The only reason I have this movie is because I got it as a gift for Christmas this week. I didn't ask for it, I asked for The Omega Man on HD DVD but they got me this instead... It is not a HD DVD I would have purchased myself. Out of curiosity I opened it and watched it. The movie itself it is the 2 hour long normal theatrical release. In it's special features it has a section it calls "deleted scenes" in which the producer, who just happens to be Dino De Larentiis' wife, goes on and on about how there "is no 4 hour long cut" of the movie and that it is apparently all a fever dream cooked up by someone who had access to the unused footage. As the unused footage plays, she goes on to talk at length about how Lynch shot so much footage... then just decided "you know what? I'm going to condense that ten years of footage I just shot into one five minute scene"... which is what gave the movie it's herky-jerky feel.

So to sum up: Dune on HD DVD is not worth the purchase. Picture quality is bad, audio quality is bad, it is ONLY the bumpy theatrical cut of the movie and in the special features (the rest of which are kind of weak) the producer goes to great lengths to convince us that there is no other cut of this movie.

[Alpha OTS]

Well, to be honest the picture is crap. Lots of grain, lots of dirt specs and even a stray hair or two. The colors are quite muted, the detail in objects simply is not there and the sound quality is somehow tinny but still dull. The only reason I have this movie is because I got it as a gift for Christmas this week. I didn't ask for it, I asked for The Omega Man on HD DVD but they got me this instead... It is not a HD DVD I would have purchased myself. Out of curiosity I opened it and watched it. The movie itself it is the 2 hour long normal theatrical release. In it's special features it has a section it calls "deleted scenes" in which the producer, who just happens to be Dino De Larentiis' wife, goes on and on about how there "is no 4 hour long cut" of the movie and that it is apparently all a fever dream cooked up by someone who had access to the unused footage. As the unused footage plays, she goes on to talk at length about how Lynch shot so much footage... then just decided "you know what? I'm going to condense that ten years of footage I just shot into one five minute scene"... which is what gave the movie it's herky-jerky feel.

So to sum up: Dune on HD DVD is not worth the purchase. Picture quality is bad, audio quality is bad, it is ONLY the bumpy theatrical cut of the movie and in the special features (the rest of which are kind of weak) the producer goes to great lengths to convince us that there is no other cut of this movie.

That's what I suspected and feared. The last DVD set to come out was pretty complete and had a really nice set of extras. The one extra on how they did some of the perspective visual effects shots was really neat. Watching it on my HD tv now, it's a pretty nice transfer, but there's dirt specks here too which I imagine probably are less offensive on a standard dvd than they would be in HD.

[Dangard Ace]

Well....I just went purple. Canada has something called Boxing Day which is like the states Black Friday. Just picked up an HD-D3 player for $100.

Store: Futureshop.ca

400 units available @8pm and after severe server problems they we're able to start selling at about 10:08pm.

0 units available less then 5mins.

Now I'm ready for HD exclusive media(Transformers, Iron Man....er....other stuff).

edit

Just watched an upconverted DVD of Aliens. This movie really needs to be remastered in HD.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I could have sworn Aliens was one of the movies Fox dropped hints to releasing on Blu Ray in the coming year.

And when you think about it we will probably be getting the first three Indiana Jones movies on Blu Ray near the end of next year as well... they can't very well release Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull on video without releasing the others in support, right?

[Roy Focker]

I hope so cause I want to a copy of Raiders.

I need to see melting Nazis in HD!

[bandit29]

ha Warner Bros can't do anything right lol

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=779

Blu-ray news

Warner Accidentally Ships Cancelled Orders

Posted December 25, 2007 by Josh

Warner Bros. In an apparent holiday mix-up, Warner Home Video has shipped thousands of cancelled orders from their online store. If you have received any titles from cancelled orders, contact Warner Home Video for return instructions.

[Ishimaru]

ha Warner Bros can't do anything right lol

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=779

Do they really expect people to return those canceled ordered?

[David Hingtgen]

If they bought it last week at BestBuy after cancelling, then got charged later by WB, yeah.

[marimba]

Ok , riddle me this Batman:

I'm more interested in sound quality than video quality. What I'm puzzling over is the new Dolby true HD and DTS HD surround formats and how to pass them successfully. These players decode the format: Sony bdp-s1, Sony bdp-s500, Samsung bdp-1400...These 3 A/V receivers decode as well: Sony da5300es, Sony da4300es, Onkyo 605...But, no one that I have spoken to can tell me with any certainty that you can actually access and listen to those formats. It is currently my plan to replace my current receiver with either the Sony BDP-s500 + Sony da5300es or Onkyo 605 to save a few bucks. Do any of you have any knowledge to help steer me in one direction or the other?

I'm trying to be as future-proof as possible.

Edited December 26, 2007 by marimba

[eugimon]

both DTS-HD and Dolby true HD will get down stepped to a lossy "core" track. As long as the receiver supports dolby digital and/or DTS.

[marimba]

Right...What I'm trying to do is preserve the fidelity of the Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD master audio bit-streams and be able to listen to them WITHOUT a loss of quality. Does anyone know of any equipment that will allow me to do so now? I know that for the time being there is not a lot of content available, but still want to gain access to the highest resolution surround sound formats that are available through the Blu-ray format in hopes that I will not have to purchase another player or receiver in the near future.

[eugimon]

ah, okay...

so as I understand it, if your player and AVR support HDMI, then you can send 8 discreet channels. so as long as the player can decode the format, it doesn't matter if your AVR does. Your AVR will playback the audio in pro logic IIx, same if you're player and AVR can support 8 analog inputs.

[JsARCLIGHT]

You need to do what I do: First run your Blu Ray player's HDMI out into your receiver, then run the receiver's HDMI out pass through to your TV. Second you need to have a receiver that can receive and decode True HD or DTS HD from your player. I always try to make my receiver do all the audio processing thus I pick the output options that grant me complete data pass through from the player to the receiver (which in my case is a Sony PS3 HDMI out, to which you set it's audio to "bitstream").

Lastly and almost without saying, you will also want to be running that over HDMI 1.3a spec cables... 1.3a spec in, 1.3a spec out, which means you will want a receiver that can "inbetween" jumper HDMI 1.3a. But from what I've seen most of the True HD and DTS HD decoder receivers are running a 1.3 jumper setup anyway.

[marimba]

OK, I got the answer I was looking for (taken from DTV forum):

"Hi, I wonder if anyone can help, and I apologize in advance if this question has been asked many times before. I just my got a 40gig PS3 yesterday, and have hooked it up to my onkyo 605 amp via hdmi. When watching spiderman 3 blu-ray last night and having selected the dolby true hd soundtrack, the display on the 605 showed 'multichannel dvd'. Should the 'dolby true hd' icon appear on the 605 display (if there is one)?

After a fair bit of reading, I think I have answered my own question. I am led to believe that the 'dolby true hd' light on the 605 will not light up as it is being decoded in the PS3 and passed on to the 605 as multichannel PCM. Please correct me if I am wrong. So what I am hearing is 'dolby true hd'?.

Yep!"

OK, so the player decodes...and so does the receiver, but since the receiver is only seeing a multichannel PCM passed to it via HDMI 1.3 it responds by illuminating the multichannel DVD icon in lieu of the Dolby true HD indicator because the receiver isn't doing the decoding work it's self. You can then listen to the glorious HD audio (I'm not interested in listening to anything in prologic, even prologic II or prologic IIx).

Just out of curiosity, what A/V receiver is JsARCLIGHT currently using?

I did explore the idea of using a PS3 as a video source, but eventually ruled it out because if the inability to control it remotely using any conventional IR remote (in my case a Phillips Pronto). I try to really research items in advance to ensure an integrated home theater that can be easily operated from one control interface because, let's face it; Who wants to use 3 remotes to turn on equipment, adjust inputs, control volume and a source component? My wife would kill me of she had to use more than one remote to watch TV or a movie or have 4 remotes cluttering up the living space. I'm a bit on the practical side as well. I want to purchase components that help to ensure I don't need to buy a new player in 3 months because something new came out.

[JsARCLIGHT]

There is a caveat to letting the player decode your audio though... some players cannot decode a 7.1 mix and thus downgrade it to 5.1. The PS3 is one such player. If you let it do the audio decoding and dump the signal through Linear PCM the best you will get is 5.1 sound... hence why I avoid letting my PS3 decode my audio when I have a perfectly fine receiver capable of decoding 7.1 right there.

My receiver is an Oink TX-SR805 and it replaced my older Denon a while back.

And yes the PS3's one real weak spot is it's stupid Bluetooth crap. What kind of moron doesn't put an IR port on something they sell as a "valued home theater component"? Seriously.

[marimba]

Thank you JsARCLIGHT for your words of wisdom.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I was having the same problem as you were with my PS3... it was doing the audio decoding unbeknownst to me and I kept pulling my hair out trying to figure out what was wrong and why those "little magic lights" where not coming on. That was when someone told me about changing the PS3's audio output from LinearPCM to Bitstream, which basically told the PS3 "don't decode the audio, just pass the information along". After that the data just moves downstream through the HDMI to the receiver and the receiver (which is the true decoding powerhouse) decodes and plays the True HD 7.1 audio.

Actually I have a counter question for marimba: How do you like your Pronto?

I'm in the market to get a "rich man" LCD touch screen remote and have been looking at the Logitech Harmony 1000, mostly out of seeing one in use at a friends house and hearing how easy it was for him to set up. Anyone else have any input on this? My new TV shows up next week and I want my ultimate superjerk home theater to be in high gear for my big birthday bash next month.

[marimba]

I love my Pronto. It is/was one of the best purchases I ever made. It has lasted through several equipment changes. It is uniquely flexible and allows for the learning of every single button on an original remote control. You can stack pages of controls and move between them using the up and down control arrows. You can reformat the button layout as you wish, label them however you wish and control any IR component completely. You can set up macros to control your components to the nth degree to simplify your life.

As an example, My wife can pick up the remote, press the "Watch DVD" macro on the home screen and the remote will turn on the television, turn on the DVD player, open the disk tray, turn on the receiver, select the dvd input, return to a default volume, then dim the room lighting (yes, I purchased one of those IR dimmer switches) the remote will then return to page 2 of the DVD control screen where the transport controls are located so that you can play/pause/skip through menus on the disk. the Volume hard buttons are set to control the receiver volume and the Channel +/- buttons then revert to quick chapter +/- buttons. All that is left for her to do is place the disk in the tray and give it a little push to close the tray. If she wishes to continue watching a previously begun movie you just press the macro for "Resume DVD movie" and you pick up where you left off.

Now, it does take a lot of time and effort to program, but once correctly done, it is well worth it.

The only experience I've had with the Logitec Harmony is that my brother owns one of the $100 base models. I know that they are very simple to set up, because my 14 year old son programs it for him on his laptop. However, he did have to manually add a button for the pop-up menu on his new Samsung BDP-1400.

So, all in all, I would say that the Pronto is more difficult to set up, but in the end will offer you greater control. If you want a easier solution that may not offer you complete control, go with the Harmony.

I actually managed to save a bunch of money on my Pronto by purchasing a refurbished unit.

[mikeszekely]

I love my Pronto. It is/was one of the best purchases I ever made. It has lasted through several equipment changes. It is uniquely flexible and allows for the learning of every single button on an original remote control. You can stack pages of controls and move between them using the up and down control arrows. You can reformat the button layout as you wish, label them however you wish and control any IR component completely. You can set up macros to control your components to the nth degree to simplify your life.

As an example, My wife can pick up the remote, press the "Watch DVD" macro on the home screen and the remote will turn on the television, turn on the DVD player, open the disk tray, turn on the receiver, select the dvd input, return to a default volume, then dim the room lighting (yes, I purchased one of those IR dimmer switches) the remote will then return to page 2 of the DVD control screen where the transport controls are located so that you can play/pause/skip through menus on the disk. the Volume hard buttons are set to control the receiver volume and the Channel +/- buttons then revert to quick chapter +/- buttons. All that is left for her to do is place the disk in the tray and give it a little push to close the tray. If she wishes to continue watching a previously begun movie you just press the macro for "Resume DVD movie" and you pick up where you left off.

Now, it does take a lot of time and effort to program, but once correctly done, it is well worth it.

The only experience I've had with the Logitec Harmony is that my brother owns one of the $100 base models. I know that they are very simple to set up, because my 14 year old son programs it for him on his laptop. However, he did have to manually add a button for the pop-up menu on his new Samsung BDP-1400.

So, all in all, I would say that the Pronto is more difficult to set up, but in the end will offer you greater control. If you want a easier solution that may not offer you complete control, go with the Harmony.

I actually managed to save a bunch of money on my Pronto by purchasing a refurbished unit.

Harmonies do all that too. If you buy a device that isn't directly supported, every command from the original remote can be learned by the Harmony. Harmonies are very easy to set up, but customizing commands for individual devices and setting up activities can be time consuming. The plus side to that, though, is that you can really fine tune the way an activity behaves and how the remote controls the devices used in the activity.

[Uxi]

There is a caveat to letting the player decode your audio though... some players cannot decode a 7.1 mix and thus downgrade it to 5.1. The PS3 is one such player. If you let it do the audio decoding and dump the signal through Linear PCM the best you will get is 5.1 sound... hence why I avoid letting my PS3 decode my audio when I have a perfectly fine receiver capable of decoding 7.1 right there.

Say what? I get 7.1 just fine from my PS3 to my Denon 4306 over HDMI (set to LPCM). Movies (Crank, Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence, etc) and games (Resistance: Fall of Man, Heavenly Sword, etc). Sounds like your receiver has an issue accepting LPCM? The Future Proof receiver thread at AVS seems to indicate your receiver should be capable of doing it....

Where some AVR's aren't up to snuff is getting more than 5CH over LPCM, and if they can perform their DSP on it... My Denon is also a "Level 6" receiver and performs PLIIx on any 5.1 ch mix.

And yes the PS3's one real weak spot is it's stupid Bluetooth crap. What kind of moron doesn't put an IR port on something they sell as a "valued home theater component"? Seriously.

Quite easily remedied flawlessly with a $15 IR receiver (I'm using the Nyko). I use my Harmony 720 and have full functionality in Blu-ray movies and even games on everything except the PS button. No lag. "turbo" speed when I hold down the arrow pad. All with info straight from the Harmony DB and no "learning" required.

Here's the AVS thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=761809

Jump at least to page 20 or so to escape the people using the PS2 contraptions....

[JsARCLIGHT]

I've had several people tell me that the PS3 will not output anything above 5.1 through the Linear PCM setting and my receiver would not show anything but 5.1 at that setting. Switch it to Bitstream and blip it goes 7.1.

Edit: plus that "workaround" for the PS3 is a ghetto hotwire way of doing things. It may work but you still have to admit it was a design oversight.