High Definition Media & Technology Thread

[Uxi]

In other words all you BD fans who ran out and bought 300 on Blu Ray the day it came out just got boned. Unless they offer a disc exchange program it's kind of a slap in the face... unless you don't care about that one, single extra feature item... which I think most people could take or leave.

Eh, I never much cared for PiP on either my HDDVDs (Miami Vice, MI3) or my Blu-rays (Crank, Descent), and am not interested in the technical aspects of making a movie on blue/green screen anyway (the specials from teh Star Wars prequels and 300 webisodes gave me all the fix on that I'll ever need), so gladly chose the Blu-ray of 300 for the PCM track alone, which admittedly is a fault of the Xbox 360, as even the Elite can only put out 2Ch PCM over HDMI, and my older premium can only do 2CH PCM or DVD legacy audio via optical, and my PS3 has 8CH PCM via HDMI. It's the exact same VC1 encode, which is a bit sad, since it might have been able to be tweaked up some for Blu-ray's significantly higher video bitrate, though given the (intentionally added) grain, it might not have been noticible.

My first high def double dip will probably be the new Director's Cut of Troy. I have the current HDDVD, but will probably get the new version on Blu-ray. One, to compare the two and three, enjoy the superior audio out of the PS3.

[Gaijin]

I actually hardly ever watch the commentaries or extras UNLESS it's a series I'm truly interested in, and then mostly for TV and not Hollywood films. I'll take the better PCM audio over a PIP commentary, but that's me.

Edited August 25, 2007 by Gaijin

[JsARCLIGHT]

Like the added features or not the HD DVD release of 300 has stuck in the craw of many a Blu Ray fan. On the two High Def forums I haunt this issue is pretty much one of the biggest sour grapes BD complaints out there, next to the terrible first release of The Fifth Element. If anyone so much as in passing mentions the HD DVD of 300 they are set upon by BD people so fast it makes your head spin.

Personally I don't really like the movie all that much and have not bought it on either format. I just find it funny how out of all the shared BD / HD DVD releases on the market that are all pretty much piece for piece clones of each other, the HD DVD people seem to think the release of 300 is some kind of "telling sign" that the HD DVD format is superior... and then on the other hand you hear all sorts of conspiracy theories and "yeah, buts" from the BD fans. Just the notion that they are re-releasing the movie with that one added feature put on it is kind of embarrassing if you ask me. I mean, the discs are near identical. The only difference is that one added feature on the HD DVD and a 5.1 PCM track on the Blu Ray. Other than that they both run the same codec, have the same Dolby TrueHD audio (which is vastly superior to PCM anyway) and for all intents and purposes look exactly the same... but oooooooooh nooooooo they have to re-release it otherwise HD DVD will have that "leg up".

[Uxi]

Not so sure... the Blu-ray of 300 has been steadily selling over 2:1, and approaching 3 to 1 against the HDDVD, as well.

TrueHD is in no-way "vastly superior" to PCM. Hint: all mixed sound tracks START as PCM masters, from which they are converted to lossless or lossy compression depending on the format, medium, and the capacity and bandwdith remaining. IOW, at best, TrueHD is a "zipped" version of PCM while PCM is the studio master itself. Then you have things like Dialog Normalization, which Dolby implements as part of TrueHD...

[JsARCLIGHT]

Then why is TrueHD touted as the best of the best of the best in audio circles? Every person I know who runs a 6.1 or 7.1 home theater setup is always lauding TrueHD above optical PCM. A friend of mine has one of the new Onkyo TX-SR674 receivers at his house running TrueHD through his PS3 and his system sounds so much better than mine... and we are both running the same speakers and nearly identical power levels and settings. The only difference is I'm running optical PCM and he's running TrueHD via HDMI.

[Uxi]

No offense, but it doesn't sound like these people know what they're talking about then. Lossless codecs like TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio should be bit for bit identical to the studio master, just like PCM. Therefore, neither should sound any ndifferent. That said, Dolby openly admits they do things like Dialog Normalization, which does affect things... some purists hate it, some don't mind it (I'm neutral on it, as long as I have the ability to toggle it. Dialog Norm is one of those things you usually can't escape, though.... The lossless codecs should be just as good, by the numbers and perception, but we already know PCM is what the studios start with before the home video transfer. The only downside to PCM is the the bitrate and space taken up on disc are significantly higher, but this isn't as much an issue with Blu-ray (particularly with 50GB dual layer discs).

I'm running 7.1 myself. While it's not the most expensive setup, it's nothing to sneer at ($2k Denon AVR-4306 and about $1k in speakers) on an Audyssey callibrated setup. I'm contemplating HSA calibration, but i'll probably do a full bore dedicated theater (front projector, 10-12foot screen, etc) first.

Edited August 26, 2007 by Uxi

[eugimon]

uxi, I have nothing substantial to add or detract from what you said, other than: drool.

[Uxi]

I've spending way too much time at places like AVSForum, Home Theater Forum, etc. This crap is more expensive than crack, though. It all started by buying that damned glorious 60" SXRD. Then I had to replace the HTIB with something worthy. Now i'm looking at floorstanding towers that are $1000 each and compared to some of the setups out there, that's piss in the ocean. Before you get baller gear like that, though, you need to get a room that's acoustically prepared, etc with a couple rows of stadium seats, ISF, HAA guys for professional calibration...

I'm thinking of going back into guns since they're cheaper. I coulda bought a completely tricked out TRP or Kimber for what I spent on a receiver...

[David Hingtgen]

Luckily, I'm the exact opposite of an audiophile. Sounds quality means nothing to me. It's the "A" in A/V that seems to take the most money once you get into it. Just hook the player up directly to the best TV you can afford---that's my setup.

[mikeszekely]

Luckily, I'm the exact opposite of an audiophile. Sounds quality means nothing to me. It's the "A" in A/V that seems to take the most money once you get into it. Just hook the player up directly to the best TV you can afford---that's my setup.

I'm warning you, David, that's how it starts. When my wife and I moved into our first place after college and the wedding, we started with my old 19" Montgomery Ward TV and her off-brand 20". First thing we did was buy a Panasonic 27" CRT with progressive scan, then a really basic Samsung HTIB. After we got on our feet and started having more disposable income, we bought a 57" Toshiba DLP TV, which worked out great since the Xbox 360 was coming out. After I got a PS3 and I needed more HDMI ports, I bought a still very modest 900w Sony receiver and speakers. After we buy a house, I'm thinking to either get a new TV or a projector. And after that, Paradigm speakers, and... well, a new receiver, but I'd be hard-pressed to pick a brand now.

It's like once your video hits a certain level, you want better audio to match. When you're satisfied with your audio, you start to think of how to improve the video again.

[Uxi]

yeah. I wasn't even really a videophile, much less an audiophile, when I got my HDTV. Truthfully, I was happy with every aspect of the HTiB except for the lack of inputs (i was out of optical ports since it had 2 optical and 1 coaxial). Then I started hunted and decided HDMI would complement the Denon nicely, was already at AVS and wanted a Level 6 (per the "future proof receiver" thread they have in the amp/receiver section, did a bit more research and had decided on the Denon 3806. Then if I'm spending that much (~$800 street), why not give myself a bit more since I have the money and won't need to rebuy anytime soon...

The original plan was to keep the HTiB speakers ( ) ... My ear had been growing more discriminating anyay... so I wanted speakers worthy of the receiver.

Home theater stuff is worse than crack, particularly once you get into high definition and can begin to appreciate the differences in subtleties...

[eugimon]

heh, well, I'm still making by with my samsung HTiB. Which is decent enough but is definitely mismatched with my hdtv. I'm probably going to use it till it dies, or till my son is old enough to stop fiddling with the electronics. I definitely want to get a receiver with HDMI ports though.

[Ryoma]

I know this is a newbie question and that you probably have already discussed this but...Are Hd-Dvd and Blu-ray region free or there are still the region as we have them for DVDs? I was interested especially with the PS3 situation.

Thanks in advance

[JsARCLIGHT]

Quoting myself from page two of the thread re region codes.

Well, the region codes are still in effect... they just moved a few things around. Japan and the US are now in the same region with Blu Ray.

Blu Ray Region Codes

From what I have read HD DVD does not have region coding... but from what I understand reading some trade mags they are going to implement some sort of basic region coding, mostly to lock out China. Right now you can buy international HD DVDs like the Harry Potter HD DVD currently only available in the UK and it will play perfectly fine in your American HD DVD player... which means not only is there no current region coding but there is no NTSC/PAL conversion issue either.

[VT 1010]

Blu-ray has only three regions. Region codes are currently optional. Luckily, few studios have yet to implement any Region Codes. Also, Japan, Hong Kong, and South Korea are in the same region as the US.

As for HD DVD, it does not currently have any Region Coding as a part of the standard.

EDIT: Looks like JsARCLIGHT beat me to it.

I will, however, go further by saying that HDTV is a new and seperate standard from NTSC, PAL, and SECAM. To my knowledge, the HDTV standards are universal and generally the same in most countries. Most movies should work without that many issues on an American TV and vice versa. This is because most movies are encoded on Blu-ray and HD DVD in their native framerate of 24 FPS (in progressive scan). The hardware will do the framerate conversion and interlacing before the signal is sent to the display. I'm not 100% sure about stuff filmed at 25, 30, 50, or 60 FPS though.

Edited August 29, 2007 by VT 1010

[CoryHolmes]

Quoting myself from page two of the thread re region codes.

Do you know why they want to lock out China? To deal with the piracy issues?

[JsARCLIGHT]

The talk in the trade magazines about HD Media focuses on two fronts, the thing the consumer cares about (picture and audio quality, features) and the thing the industry cares about (copy protection, media security). Since the DVD boom the industry has slowly come to realize that the vast lion's share of all bootlegs come out of China mostly due to China in general having a very... well... lax view of copyright law. There has been a lot of rumblings of the industry's attempts to isolate China and Russia (the two "big boys" of bootlegged media and lax copyright enforcement) from everywhere else in the sense of region coding in an attempt to "fence in" the bootleg industry in this coming generation. My guess is it's going to work just as well as the last generation... in other words you can't stop a thief. As sword technology improves so does the shield, which in turn causes someone to make a better sword and back and forth. There will be bootleg Blu Rays and HD DVDs soon... coming out of China (as usual) and all this industry buzz about region isolation and new copy protection and mastering techniques will be all for naught.

[bandit29]

Price drop on the Spider-man blu-ray box at Amazon. preorder for 65.00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UR9T8...8605251-1971943

[David Hingtgen]

Neat. I never snagged the DVD's of any of them (don't know why) and now I can get Blu-Ray versions.

[Gaijin]

Do you know why they want to lock out China? To deal with the piracy issues?

Goes beyond the piracy issues actually, but for the most part that's the reason.

[eugimon]

Well, it looks like china wants to make it a three way fight, introducing CH-DVD:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/09/china-a...n-dvd-standard/

which according to the engadget article, features "advanced copy protection." I thought china and copy protection were mutually exclusive concepts?

[JsARCLIGHT]

[bill Lumbergh] Yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhh... Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... Ok China I'm going to need you to come in on Sunday Mmmmmmmkaaaaaaay? [/bill Lumbergh]

I highly doubt that format will get out of China. It sounds more like China saying "well, OK then western devils and your new formats with their new region coding and copy protection trying to make an example of us... well we have our OWN new format!... With Blackjack!... And Hookers!..."

[Gaijin]

Well, it looks like china wants to make it a three way fight, introducing CH-DVD:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/09/china-a...n-dvd-standard/

which according to the engadget article, features "advanced copy protection." I thought china and copy protection were mutually exclusive concepts?

Not a chance it will become a format here.

[GobotFool]

[bill Lumbergh] Yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhh... Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... Ok China I'm going to need you to come in on Sunday Mmmmmmmkaaaaaaay? [/bill Lumbergh]

coding and copy protection trying to make an example of us... well we have our OWN new format!... With Blackjack!... And Hookers!..."

On the otherhand forget the blackjack!

[GobotFool]

I'm fairly new to the HD scene myself and I have a question for the more experienced members, what is the best HDMI to DVI switch box out there? I know they exist, and they cost a damn fortune, I'd like to get one but I have no idea which company I should go with. Can anyone help me?

[JsARCLIGHT]

What do you need the switchbox for? You can solve that problem with a $15 HDMI to DVI cable. Or do you need a multichannel switchbox (meaning multiple HDMI ins and one HDMI out)?

[GobotFool]

What do you need the switchbox for? You can solve that problem with a $15 HDMI to DVI cable. Or do you need a multichannel switchbox (meaning multiple HDMI ins and one HDMI out)?

I'm looking for a multichannel HDMI to DVI switchbox. I've looked around and the only ones I've seen cost 200 plus. At that price I probably will just deal with swaping all my cables out everytime I switch platforms. I just want to know A, if there are ones that are cheaper than 200, and B who makes the best.

Edited September 13, 2007 by GobotFool

[JsARCLIGHT]

Yeah, switchers are freaking expensive. Before I decided on buying a new TV I was looking at getting a multiple HDMI switcher for my old HDTV unit. All the multi HD switch boxes I found were very expensive (+/- $200). I stopped looking and just decided to buy a newer set with more HDMI inputs... of course 1080p was the main reason to buy the new set but more HDMI inputs is a godsend.

[GobotFool]

Yeah, switchers are freaking expensive. Before I decided on buying a new TV I was looking at getting a multiple HDMI switcher for my old HDTV unit. All the multi HD switch boxes I found were very expensive (+/- $200). I stopped looking and just decided to buy a newer set with more HDMI inputs... of course 1080p was the main reason to buy the new set but more HDMI inputs is a godsend.

Yeah, its not that big of a deal, my TV can do HDMIp through the DVI to HDMI cables, I'd just like more HDMI ports. Oh well, guess I'll just have to keep swaping my cables out. Sure its inconvenient but its not an inconvenience I'm willing to slap down 200 dollars to fix.

[Uxi]

How many HDMI devices do you have? A good HDMI AVR has at least 4 these days, if not more. I have 5 HDMI ports between my HDTV and AVR....

[GobotFool]

How many HDMI devices do you have? A good HDMI AVR has at least 4 these days, if not more. I have 5 HDMI ports between my HDTV and AVR....

As of this moment I only have 2, an x-box360 and a PS3. I can't imagine ever needing more than 3 ports.

[Oihan]

I posted in the computer & electronics thread, but it was suggested that I post here instead.

As for HDTVs, what 32" HDTVs would you guys recommend? I can't go any higher than 32;" and I was thinking of getting a Sharp Aquos LC32GP1U 32" 1080p LCD HDTV because it's 1080p. I can find one for about $1199, but I'm told that I should wait a year or so before I get one for it'll eventually go down in price. Question is, how much in price do you guys think it'll drop in a year? Is it even worth waiting that long for who knows how many hundreds (if any)? I'd be using the TV to watch HD TV (NFL games, etc.), HD movies, and to play my 360 on of course.

Azrael suggested to me that I should wait at least 3...5 months (I'm guessing when the analog TV signals become digital? Or is that in 2009?)

I was thinking, however, that if I don't get an HDTV this year that I'd get the Valks instead...and I'd love to have either...though I'm really wanting a HDTV right now. I've never bought a model Valk before but the 25th Anniversary has definitely caught my eye.

Thanks.

Edited September 22, 2007 by Oihan

[David Hingtgen]

I'm getting my TV for Xmas. While Xmas 2008 will probably be THE "HDTV holiday season" due to the 2009 mandate, I expect this Xmas will be much bigger than the last. Football alone I think drives the market sometimes. Plus the PS3 and X360 being even more common than just last year, plus far more HD/BluRay players. I expect every TV to drop a bit in the next few months, plus big holiday sales.

Sure it'll be even cheaper next year, with better TV's--but I feel I've waited long enough. I've got an progessive-scan DVD player and a 360---and watch it all on a 20in CRT. And will have a PS3 within a few months after I get the TV. (That TV is PURELY for movies and games--it doesn't even get cable, and usually doesn't have the antenna plugged in)

[myk]

Oihan, I'd go for the HDTV instead of the 'Valks. Watching your sports, playing your games, watching movies and whatever else you can do with HD will blow you away. Heck, I didn't even watch sports until I got my set but it's just a blast. I didn't enjoy spending the money on the HDTV but it was well worth it. I don't think I could say the same for a 50-Cent inspired 25th anniversary valkyrie that just well, sits there...

[eugimon]

I posted in the computer & electronics thread, but it was suggested that I post here instead.

As for HDTVs, what 32" HDTVs would you guys recommend? I can't go any higher than 32;" and I was thinking of getting a Sharp Aquos LC32GP1U 32" 1080p LCD HDTV because it's 1080p. I can find one for about $1199, but I'm told that I should wait a year or so before I get one for it'll eventually go down in price. Question is, how much in price do you guys think it'll drop in a year? Is it even worth waiting that long for who knows how many hundreds (if any)? I'd be using the TV to watch HD TV (NFL games, etc.), HD movies, and to play my 360 on of course.

Azrael suggested to me that I should wait at least 3...5 months when the analog TV signals become digital.

I was thinking, however, that if I don't get an HDTV this year that I'd get the Valks instead...and I'd love to have either...though I'm really wanting a HDTV right now. I've never bought a model Valk before but the 25th Anniversary has definitely caught my eye.

Thanks.

both sony and samsung have stated that by the end of 2008, 50" LCD tv's should cost around a grand. So there's a pretty big incentive to waiting. That said, I bought my HDTV this july and I love it.