High Definition Media & Technology Thread

[JsARCLIGHT]

In order to keep the PS3 thread "pure" we should move all discussion of next gen HD media movies and music to this thread. This thread should be for any and all discussion of Blu Ray Disc movies, HD DVD movies, SACD, you name it... if it's next gen HD then let's have it here.

To start the thread we should list our personal players and collections to start things off.

I myself have a PS3 for Blu Ray and only own Casino Royale and Black Hawk Down at the moment. I'm seriously considering the HD DVD add on for my Xbox so I can get Universal movies in HD.

Edit: Seeing as HD DVD is going down in flames and this thread serves more than just HD disc media, the title has been changed.

[bandit29]

Good idea How is Black Hawk Down on blu-ray?

from my other post:

Some more blu-ray news for the Kubrick fans

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=348

QUOTE

Warner Home Video has announced that the majority of the Stanley Kubrick library is coming to Blu-ray on October 23rd. These titles include '2001: A Space Odyssey (Special Edition)', 'A Clockwork Orange (Special Edition)', 'Eyes Wide Shut (Special Edition)', 'Full Metal Jacket (Deluxe Edition)', and 'The Shining (Special Edition)'. Each will come on a BD-50 and feature a TrueHD soundtrack.

A deluxe edition of Full Metal Jacket already. The "old" blu-ray is still sitting on the shelves collecting dust lol

and where the hell is my Batman Begins and Sin City on blu-ray

Edited July 26, 2007 by dejr8bud

[JsARCLIGHT]

Good idea How is Black Hawk Down on blu-ray?

I can let you know as soon as I watch it. I was chasing a ground loop feedback through my PS3 hookup last night and didn't get a chance to watch or do much of anything on it. I hope to have it solved tonight though and I plan to watch BHD.

All the reviews of the BD I have read rate it very high on picture and sound quality.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Looks like Microsoft is countering the Blu Ray 5 free offer by reducing the price on their HD DVD drive for the Xbox 360 by $20 and including it in the Toshiba 5 free HD DVD movies deal. Starting August 1st you can get the new HD DVD drive for $179 and then if purchase between Aug 1st and Sept 31st you can mail in for 5 free HD DVDs... just like the PS3 5 free Blu Rays offer.

HD DVD Add on to $179 plus 5 free HD DVD movies

Well... looks like I'm going to be buying that HD DVD add on for my Xbox as well!

[Uxi]

Good idea How is Black Hawk Down on blu-ray?

It is excellent. ESPECIALLY if you have an HDMI receiver that can take 5.1 PCM (if not 7.1). The uncompressed PCM track set with PLIIx through my Denon-4306 is INCREDIBLE. Walls are shuddering and shaking while gunfire is all around you. Another great track is the Pearl Harbor.

[David Hingtgen]

Any truth to the rumors of Blu-Ray already winning the format war? The $179 HD drive deal is tempting, but kind of a waste if in 18 months Blu-Ray is way ahead of HD-DVD and support falls away. It's more expensive, but I'd probably rather buy a PS3. (I'll probably end up with a PS3 before an HD TV, as the HD TV I want still doesn't exist--it will, just probably not in the next 9 months)

26-32in with adaptive LED backlighting. That's what I want. (Should we also expand the thread to include HD TV's?)

[Uxi]

Blu-ray has really been pulling away:

Lifted from AVS forum beatboy77:

Over the past 72 hours we have heard the following from the Blu-ray camp:

- Close Encounters of the Third Kind Announced Exclusively on Blu-ray!!

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=351

- Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End Announced Exclusively on Blu-ray!!

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=353

- Target to Sell Blu-ray Players Exclusively

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=349

- Denon enters HD optical with Exclsuive Blu-ray support with the DVD-3800BDCI.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=340

- BJ's Wholesale Club Stores To Carry Blu-ray Exclusively

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6463556.html

- Woolworths go Blu-ray exclusive. Drop HD-DVD.

http://www.playthree.net/2007/07/wo...ve-drop-hd.html

- Razor Digital announces Blu-ray Exclusivity with four IMAX titles for Blu-ray on November 13th.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=337

- Questar announces Blu-ray Exclusivity with three titles which include 'Rudy Maxa's Europe to the Max', 'The Enchanted Pacific to the Max' and a yet to be announced PBS nature series title.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=338

- Tartan Video confirms Blu-ray Exclusivity and announces three titles, 'Black Book', 'The Seventh Seal', and 'Oldboy' on October 23rd.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=336

- 'Bram Stoker's Dracula' announced for Exclusive release on Blu-ray for October 2nd.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=339

- 'Rein Over Me' announced for Exclusive release on Blu-ray forOctober 9th.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=334

[Uxi]

Courtesy AVS member Grubert.

Source: Nielsen/Videoscan

Sales:

Blu-ray/HDDVD

Day      Week         YTD         SI
01/07  63.3/36.7   63.3/36.7   41.2/58.8
01/14  68.2/31.8   65.7/34.3   43.2/56.8
01/21  67.8/32.2   66.4/33.6   45.1/54.9
01/28  68.8/31.2   67.0/33.0   46.7/53.3
02/04  69.0/31.0   67.4/32.6   48.1/51.9      
02/11  69.6/30.4   67.7/32.3   49.3/50.7
02/18  65.0/35.0   67.4/32.6   50.3/49.7
02/25  68.5/31.5   67.4/32.6   51.5/48.5
03/04  65.7/34.3   67.2/32.8   52.2/47.8
03/11  68.7/31.3   67.9/32.1   52.8/47.2
03/18  81.7/18.3   69.2/30.8   54.3/45.7
03/25     n/a      70.4/29.6   55.6/44.4
04/01     n/a      69.9/30.1   56.2/43.8
04/08  62.4/37.6   69.4/30.6   56.4/43.6 
04/15    61/39       69/31       57/43 
04/22    52/48       68/32       57/43
04/29    71/29       68/32       58/42
05/06    60/40       68/32       57/43
05/13    62/38       68/32       57/43
05/20    58/42       67/33       57/43
05/27    69/31       67/33       58/42
06/03    61/39       67/33       59/41
06/10    66/34       67/33       59/41
06/17    64/36       67/33       59/41
06/24    70/30       67/33       59/41
07/01    65/35       67/33       60/40
07/08    66/34       67/33       60/40
07/15    61/39       67/33       60/40

[Keith]

Also, apparently Blockbuster has decied to stock Blue-Ray's exclusively in-stores, and only carry HD in the 250 stores that they were test marketting both in.

[Uxi]

Yeah.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/17/block...s-the-war-over/

250 stores were the pilots for both HDDVD and Blu-ray. Blockbuster says they'll continue to stock HDDVD at those 250 stores, but when they expand for the remaining 1200 stores, it's only Blu-ray.

Anyways, good idea JsARCLIGHT.

I have a 60XBR1 SXRD; Denon AVR-4306; 7.1 Polk RM, PS3, 360/HDDVD add-on, and a plane jane 5-disc DVD carousel. I get HD Cable (Charter) via CableCARD so no STB it's decoded by the TV itself. I do upscaling/deinterlacing on the DVD carousel through the Denon.

Here's a pic:

[Warmaker]

Curious being on the sidelines watching all this, waiting to see which comes out on top

[F360°]

it seems Target would only be stocking Blu-ray players and discs too.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/808/808656p1.html

[JsARCLIGHT]

Those sales numbers directly show the impact of the PS3 on the fight. The "war" suddenly changed course between November and January 2006 when the PS3 was introduced. It might be interesting to see how the "war" fares with the new announcement by Microsoft of a cheaper Xbox 360 HD DVD player with 5 free movies... then again Sony has it's cheaper PS3 with 5 free movies deal going on at the same time.

As it stands right now it would appear to the untrained eye that Blu Ray is pulling away but it will really take this coming holiday season to really see a true "winner" or "loser" in this match up. As it stands now we have both formats sharing several big releases and each side having it's handful of exclusives... with a good number of very important releases still sitting on the sidelines. It makes it hard for someone to "pick a side" in this fight as many movies that people might want are available for both formats but even more have yet to be announced on either format. I think the true tipping point will occur when big studios like Disney/Pixar start putting out their movies (which is supposed to start with CARS in November) as well as other large scale releases from Fox and Paramount. Everyone has that "must have" title that will make them buy one format or the other and I think many of those will be arriving late this year or early next year... and from the sound of things many of them will be format exclusives.

I'm fairly confident Blu Ray has this thing in the bag, but you never know... the large peak of BD's success seems to be the PS3, and that kind of puts of crutch onto the format. If the PS3 doesn't fare very well in the coming console war that may reduce Blu Ray just as quickly as it raised it.

[Mr March]

Oh, I really hope Blue Ray wins. I really think it's more of a true next-generation format than HD-DVD. When I finally get my high definition player, I'm getting a Blue Ray. Please win Blue Ray!

[pfunk]

the only thing I read about the blu is that the protective layer on the disk is thinner then HD because it holds more data then HD and also is manufactured to tighter tolerances so they are a higher cost, so watch out for scratches.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Well, really every form of optical media is susceptible to scratches to a large degree. I'd assume that basic common sense and proper handling of your discs will prevent any scratch issues no matter which media you choose.

I'm also pretty much on board with buying an Xbox 360 HD DVD drive next week when the price drops and the 5 free HD DVDs offer starts up. I mean, I really can't go wrong with this one. $180 for the player and then the selection of movies doesn't suck like the Blu Ray offer. I'm hoping to get Casablanca, Apollo 13, Sky Captain, U2:R&H and We Were Soldiers. This will then allow me to get all the Universal movies I want like King Kong, Shawn of the Dead, Hot Fuzz and others... plus from what I've seen the HD DVD version of "300" is superior to the Blu Ray version due to the inclusion of a bunch of extra HD DVD exclusive features.

[emajnthis]

I imagine that since Blu Ray is picking up a lot of these exclusive rights with retailers, it's going to help push them off of shelves similar to when DVD first came out. Whoever is able to get retailers on board usually ends up winning in the end, fortunately for Sony they pushed the correct format this time (unlike betamax).

[pfunk]

Well, really every form of optical media is susceptible to scratches to a large degree. I'd assume that basic common sense and proper handling of your discs will prevent any scratch issues no matter which media you choose.

I'm also pretty much on board with buying an Xbox 360 HD DVD drive next week when the price drops and the 5 free HD DVDs offer starts up. I mean, I really can't go wrong with this one. $180 for the player and then the selection of movies doesn't suck like the Blu Ray offer. I'm hoping to get Casablanca, Apollo 13, Sky Captain, U2:R&H and We Were Soldiers. This will then allow me to get all the Universal movies I want like King Kong, Shawn of the Dead, Hot Fuzz and others... plus from what I've seen the HD DVD version of "300" is superior to the Blu Ray version due to the inclusion of a bunch of extra HD DVD exclusive features.

yeah, Im waiting till thiese "wars" are over, seems line samsung is comming out with a combo drive. At least I know that my reciever is up to date (Harmon Cardon) Im also waiting for the HD Tv's to come down a bit more since standardizing by the feds

[eugimon]

samsung is actually coming out on a 3rd generation combo player and home theater set up. The specs sound pretty nice.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/25/samsu...-format-player/

still way too pricey for me though.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I was originally looking at those combo players but finally decided they weren't worth their price tags. With the cheapest one being something like a grand you could buy a PS3 and one of those cheap Toshiba HD DVD players for much less and in the end have more options. Those combo options will only become viable when they get their prices down. Now, $500 for a combo player would have had me at hello... but as it stands I'm quite happy with my PS3 purchase. It promises more than a simple player deck, and once I get my HD DVD player for my Xbox I'll have all my bases covered. When one format "wins" I'll just convert over to using just that player entirely.

[Uxi]

This last week's numbers are in:

[JB0]

Well, really every form of optical media is susceptible to scratches to a large degree. I'd assume that basic common sense and proper handling of your discs will prevent any scratch issues no matter which media you choose.

BluRay is the most susceptible since CD, though.

CDs were pretty tough on the data side(if it got scuffed, the scratches could be buffed out and the disk would work again), but ANY scratch on the label side stood a very good chance of killing the disk, since the reflector is almost entirely unprotected on that side.

DVD, recognizing the flaw of an unprotected reflector, mounted the foil right smack in the middle. Both sides are protected by a fairly thick sheet of plastic. And scratches can be buffed out of it to restore it to operation, just like CD.

HD-DVD is constructed much like DVD.

BluRay has the reflector almost directly against the read surface.

That's why most BR disks on the market have a scratch-resistant coating. They're considered too fragile to sell without one.

They were originally considering selling the disks in a non-removable caddy, like a 3.5" floppy or MiniDisk, due to their vulnerabilty. But everyone hated the idea, so they started applying scratch-resistant coatings.

[Mowe]

Quick Question (this might sound dumb but I am not exactly on the cutting edge with media technology):

Is it assumed that all BR or HD-DVD players can play normal DVD? I hate to replace my DVD collection and start again....

Edited July 28, 2007 by Mowe

[JsARCLIGHT]

Some of the Blu Ray and HD DVD players I've seen offer DVD playback with upconversion. I won't say that ALL of them do though as I have not looked at many of them.

[David Hingtgen]

Just buy a PS3---it upconverts all normal DVD's quite nicely, it seems.

[JsARCLIGHT]

As it stands right now the PS3 is STILL the best deal in Blu Ray. $499, the price of the cheapest standalone player, plus it plays games. And you get 5 free movies by mail through September.

Also with the big hubbub about the Blu Ray 1.1 upgrade and other future upgrades of the media I'd think that a PS3 with it's internet capabilities and "patching" capabilities would be the supreme player for "future proofing" your Blu Ray.

[Mowe]

Thks Js. So I guess conversion won't a factor between the race.

I hope who ever wins, they can cut the bullsh!t with region code this time. What is frustrating with the who DVD region code bussiness is that it really didn't protected the dvds from pirate copier - but what it did do was frustrating consumers and PC user who use legit DVD software and some times, you have to folk out for expensive oversea dvds just to get that extra bit of bonus materials because your local region didn't bother to include them.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Well, the region codes are still in effect... they just moved a few things around. Japan and the US are now in the same region with Blu Ray.

Blu Ray Region Codes

From what I have read HD DVD does not have region coding... but from what I understand reading some trade mags they are going to implement some sort of basic region coding, mostly to lock out China. Right now you can buy international HD DVDs like the Harry Potter HD DVD currently only available in the UK and it will play perfectly fine in your American HD DVD player... which means not only is there no current region coding but there is no NTSC/PAL conversion issue either.

[F360°]

"Another blow to HD DVD came today as BJ's Wholesale Club will bounce the format from its shelves in the fourth quarter according to VB, a Variety company. Just like yesterday's news about Target going with Blu-ray players, if Wal-Mart's Sam's Club went Blu-ray it'd be a much bigger deal, but BJ's is a large company on the East Coast (particularly the North East). BJ's will continue to sell HD DVD format products on their website."

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/27/bjs-whol...e-goes-blu-ray/

Yesterdays news about Target

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/26/target-t...ray-as-the-way/

it seems everyday another chain goes blu-ray

[JB0]

Some of the Blu Ray and HD DVD players I've seen offer DVD playback with upconversion. I won't say that ALL of them do though as I have not looked at many of them.

They all play DVD. Just like all DVD players play CDs.

It's such a cheap feature, there's no reason not to.

[David Hingtgen]

Basic screen size question:

My viewing distance is 4 feet. (I've measured, it's exactly 48 inches from eyeball to screen in my normal sitting spot). Is 32in too big for a 16:9? Quality/options for TV's at 32in seem much greater than 26in. I have a 20in 4:3 now. (This is the bedroom TV, with the 360 and future PS3, not the living room TV) If needed, I could probably move the TV back 8-10 inches, maybe 12, to get a 5ft viewing distance. 30in has pretty much gone away, that was perfect. 26 seems just a LITTLE too small. But 32 is a pretty big jump, especially when it's only 4 feet (or 5) away.

Note: I truly abhor the "brightness difference" visible from top to bottom of most LCD's. TV's always talk about viewing angle, but that's left/right. Most TV's now are pretty good about left/right, but can be quite poor in vertical changes, even not moving your head. If I just stand there, I can tell just from looking from the top to the middle to the bottom, that the brightness isn't even. This is really obvious at BestBuy, when they switch to a logo screen---it's all blue, with the yellow tag in the middle. And the top and bottom of the screen are always a darker blue than the middle.

Is part of that because at BB you can only ever really see a 60in screen from 3 feet away, or do all LCD's have vertical brightness "consistency" issues? (And thus, I'd want as small of a screen as possible, as far away as possible, to reduce the viewing angle as much as possible) (I also see it in little 14in PC monitors, but those are cheap Dells, also fairly close to your face)

Or in other words----what's the best way to reduce the "apparent change in brightness" from the top to the bottom of the screen of an LCD screen? Factored into "what size TV should I buy"? (Because an affordably-priced 26-32in adaptive-LED-backlighting TV's like I really want may be 2+ years away--I won't wait *that* long--I want an HDTV within a year, preferably within 6 months---Xmas would be nice)

6 months from now, the first adaptive LED-backlighting TV's should be in stores, and we'll see how much they are, and if anyone's going to start doing them in sub-46in sizes, etc. I'll either decide to wait if what I want is coming soon/is affordable, or go get a CCFL-lit one then.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Well, I finally had a chance to sit down yesterday and re-wire my system to eliminate the ground loop feedback with my new PS3... turns out it was connected "too close" to the connection from my satelite dish box, which... somehow... was creating a slight hum (ground loop feedback). I swapped the HDMI from my sat dish box to the opposite side of my switcher and it eliminated the hum.

So last night I forced my wife to sit down and watch a Blu Ray, the choices being Casino Royale or Black Hawk Down she chose the obvious... Bond.

On a 42" Plasma in 1080i (this TV was before 1080p was available, I plan to "rectify" that... now that my wife understands what "HD" really is it will make the argument to get a bigger, better 1080p plasma easier) and with full HDMI digial audio into my receiver I have to say that Casino Royale looked BETTER at home than I remember it in the theaters. For the first time I think ever my wife actually said "wow this is a pretty good picture". She, being one of the "there is nothing special about HD, it's just a gimmick to get people to buy new things", finally had to admit that all this money was finally showing good results.

It's also quite true that the "broadcast" HD that you see over an over air antenna or over a cable or satellite source definitely IS inferior to direct source video. I don't know why but the Blu Ray playback is vastly superior to many of the pictures I've seen on HD sat channels.

I also really like it how the PS3 has "pop up" tags on the top and bottom that show you the codec the movie is using, the audio output it is using, the audio bitrate and the video bitrate... as well as times, tracks and other common display elements. I don't know if this is unique to the PS3 or if all Blu Ray players have this option... I have not seen many players in action to know.

Well, I'm off to go buy Pirates of the Caribbean 1 and 2 tonight to watch them later. POTC 1 is one of the highest rated Blu Ray discs and I'm actually kind of stoked to see what "one of the best" can produce compared to Casino Royale, which by all reviews I've read was "middle of the road".

[Gaijin]

Basic screen size question:

My viewing distance is 4 feet. (I've measured, it's exactly 48 inches from eyeball to screen in my normal sitting spot). Is 32in too big for a 16:9? Quality/options for TV's at 32in seem much greater than 26in. I have a 20in 4:3 now. (This is the bedroom TV, with the 360 and future PS3, not the living room TV) If needed, I could probably move the TV back 8-10 inches, maybe 12, to get a 5ft viewing distance. 30in has pretty much gone away, that was perfect. 26 seems just a LITTLE too small. But 32 is a pretty big jump, especially when it's only 4 feet (or 5) away.

I have a 32" LCD panny in my bedroom as well. I sit as close as 4 feet away when at the edge of my bed, or as far as 10. The 32 I thought was too big at first in the store, but it actually turned out great. Keep in mind, with the LCD, you don't have 20 inches of tube sticking out the back and the panel can go that much closer to the wall. It only bugs me on some of the older analog upconverted stations my cable company runs thorugh their digital feed, but to be honest, like you I had a 20" tube in the bedroom before and they never looked that great to begin with. Anything HD, DVD, and even many of the SD stations looks great, even at that short distance. NOT as great as 7-8 feet but it's not a deal breaker. Like you I was eyeing a 26" at first but am actually glad I went with the 32. I do haqve a lil more options in that I can sit much further back, but it's actually quite nice. The Pannys are known to make SD stations quite good, something I hadn't expected. It's the closest to a tube as you're going to get at that size.

Is part of that because at BB you can only ever really see a 60in screen from 3 feet away, or do all LCD's have vertical brightness "consistency" issues? (And thus, I'd want as small of a screen as possible, as far away as possible, to reduce the viewing angle as much as possible) (I also see it in little 14in PC monitors, but those are cheap Dells, also fairly close to your face)

Or in other words----what's the best way to reduce the "apparent change in brightness" from the top to the bottom of the screen of an LCD screen? Factored into "what size TV should I buy"? (Because an affordably-priced 26-32in adaptive-LED-backlighting TV's like I really want may be 2+ years away--I won't wait *that* long--I want an HDTV within a year, preferably within 6 months---Xmas would be nice)

I felt the same way...and decided that the 32" Panny deal I got was too good to pass up and in a couple years I'll upgrade it and retire that one to the guest or computer/office room. The stop gap TV I bought is performing better than I expected it to though. I'm pleased.

Heck, you could get even a cheap Vizio 26 or 32 (they're actually not that bad at all and the prices are steals) to mimimize the initial investment.

Edited July 29, 2007 by Gaijin

[Gaijin]

Well, I finally had a chance to sit down yesterday and re-wire my system to eliminate the ground loop feedback with my new PS3... turns out it was connected "too close" to the connection from my satelite dish box, which... somehow... was creating a slight hum (ground loop feedback). I swapped the HDMI from my sat dish box to the opposite side of my switcher and it eliminated the hum.

So last night I forced my wife to sit down and watch a Blu Ray, the choices being Casino Royale or Black Hawk Down she chose the obvious... Bond.

On a 42" Plasma in 1080i (this TV was before 1080p was available, I plan to "rectify" that... now that my wife understands what "HD" really is it will make the argument to get a bigger, better 1080p plasma easier) and with full HDMI digial audio into my receiver I have to say that Casino Royale looked BETTER at home than I remember it in the theaters. For the first time I think ever my wife actually said "wow this is a pretty good picture". She, being one of the "there is nothing special about HD, it's just a gimmick to get people to buy new things", finally had to admit that all this money was finally showing good results.

It's also quite true that the "broadcast" HD that you see over an over air antenna or over a cable or satellite source definitely IS inferior to direct source video. I don't know why but the Blu Ray playback is vastly superior to many of the pictures I've seen on HD sat channels.

I also really like it how the PS3 has "pop up" tags on the top and bottom that show you the codec the movie is using, the audio output it is using, the audio bitrate and the video bitrate... as well as times, tracks and other common display elements. I don't know if this is unique to the PS3 or if all Blu Ray players have this option... I have not seen many players in action to know.

Well, I'm off to go buy Pirates of the Caribbean 1 and 2 tonight to watch them later. POTC 1 is one of the highest rated Blu Ray discs and I'm actually kind of stoked to see what "one of the best" can produce compared to Casino Royale, which by all reviews I've read was "middle of the road".

Most cable and sat operators HD feeds are low bitrate. Any of the HD discs be it Blu-ray or HD DVD will look better than broadcast HD (all things being equal such as source material). Both POTC are terrific looking. Also, it was a crappy film but 'Crank' ranks up there as one of the most jaw dropping HD I've seen . Definitely at least rent for pic quality. Planet Earth is a must buy, and Deja Vu was also great.

[David Hingtgen]

Gaijin--thanks much for the info. The two highest-rated decently-priced 32's seem to be the Sharp LC-32D50U, and Samsung LN-T3253H currently. I'll check out the Panasonics, too. (I'm looking to spend up to about a grand, perferably more like 800----I plan to make use of a BestBuy 12% off coupon and get some certificates back via their reward zone program---they're really the only electronics store in the area). Those two TV's should have a price drop anyways in 6 months, plus it'll be the holiday season. And that's all assuming I have a grand to spend in 6 months!

Of course, there will probably be new TV's by then. A big problem with looking/shopping for TV's at BestBuy though is incredibly inconsistent stocking of TV brands. 1 month, they'll have the whole Sharp line, and no Samsung. Next month, half Sony, half Toshiba. The next---very little name brand, all cheap stuff. There are many times when I'll go look at BB, find nothing---then head to Sears and find lots of good sets! But Sears has the exact same problem--entire brands come and go, they seem to get random shipments from random companies.

PS---my bedroom TV is purely for gaming and movies. It's not even hooked up to cable. So SD picture quality is of no concern. To make a final decision on size, I think I'm just going to have to do what I did when I got the last TV---make a 1:1 cardboard mock-up and see how big it really is, sitting where I plan to put it.