Yamato 1/60 YF-21 News & Pics

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Damn straight. I think with all it's gimmicks too it will leave the 19 feeling the 21's sonic boom tremor from behind. :D

But the 19 has larger legs... in Eugimon's Omega Pants...

Edited January 5, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[Mog]

GEEZ!!!

Ignoring the anime magic or accuracy of dnd's or eugimon's....umm....birds , what in the name of Zardoz's mentally deficient, adjustable anhedral, delimiter moding, beaver tailing, beefier legging, gunpod color confusing, black or clear stand wondering, Fast Pack-packing, but Foldildo-lacking, not enough b*tching for Wicked Ace's tastes is going on with this thread?!!!

..............in Eugimon's Omega Pants.

(Did I miss anything?)

Oh yeah, I blame >EXO<!

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Exo you bastid!!!!!!!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I'm really happy about this. Will buy after looking at these pics for days.

The skinny legs of yf-21 reminds me of the complaints about the skinny arms on the 1/48 vf-1. I've been a fan of the skinny limbs ever since the banpresto valks that everyone hates but that I think give the valks a kind of feminine grace. (that is in contrast to their stocky brothers the destroids which are short)

I never accepted the lineart of battroid mode as being the "real proportions" of what the robot should look like if it was a plane that transformed into the bot mode. Rather just put this down to the artist wanting to make it look strong and tough for appearances when it really should be "skinny and delicate but agile". (maybe like an eva?)

I think ever since masterpiece starscream had his sexy girl legs, that maybe it started a fashion to make the bot mode of these transforming robots into skinny supermodels. Something I don't mind so long as it means the fighter mode looks all the more fast and agile. (vs the bulky and chunky look of bandai toys which seem to go for the tough, stocky, muscular battroid mode which makes the fighter look like it wouldn't fly very well)

Edited January 5, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[misterryno]

The skinny legs of yf-21 reminds me of the complaints about the skinny arms on the 1/48 vf-1.

Do yuo mean the skinny arms on the VF-0??? The VF-1's arms are not that skinny.

[Uxi]

Do yuo mean the skinny arms on the VF-0??? The VF-1's arms are not that skinny.

in eugimon's omega pants™.

[Chindenathus]

In Eugimon's Pants!

...Please God, just let it die already...

[Kyp Durron]

...Please God, just let it die already...

Sorry, but nothing ever dies or grows old...

....in Eugimon's Omega Pants™.

-Kyp

[misterryno]

Sorry, but nothing ever dies or grows old...

....in Eugimon's Omega Pants™.

-Kyp

I was told that the YF-21 was 20 times larger than whats

....in Eugimon's Omega Pants™

[eugimon]

I was told that the YF-21 was 20 times larger than whats

....in Eugimon's Omega Pants™

but your mommas in eugimon's omega pants right now...

[Dante74]

but your mommas in eugimon's omega pants right now...

lol. Good comeback.

[misterryno]

but your mommas in eugimon's omega pants™ right now...

That can't be...she only likes men. LOL

Edited January 5, 2008 by misterryno

[Vermillion21]

I haven't been following this thread in a long while ... who's pre-ordering this?

[Scream Man]

i wasnt going too originally, but now Im thinking i might.

[misterryno]

i wasnt going too originally, but now Im thinking i might.

I second that.

[Kicker773]

preordered 5 omega pants selection to match my 5 YFs

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Do yuo mean the skinny arms on the VF-0??? The VF-1's arms are not that skinny.

No I mean the 1/48 had "girly arms" which people liked to note compared to the first 1/60 yamatos. (noticeable in a side by side battroid comparison shot)

It's upper arms seems less beefy and chunky than 1/60. Although nothing can erase the memory of bad headsculpt of 1/60 vf-1s compared to the 1/48 so we are kinda forced to get 1/48.

Now with these new 1/60 people have more choice. Something without the chicken hands, but decent head, and more affordable to a casual fan so it will sell more.

[misterryno]

No I mean the 1/48 had "girly arms" which people liked to note compared to the first 1/60 yamatos. (noticeable in a side by side battroid comparison shot)

It's upper arms seems less beefy and chunky than 1/60. Although nothing can erase the memory of bad headsculpt of 1/60 vf-1s compared to the 1/48 so we are kinda forced to get 1/48.

Now with these new 1/60 people have more choice. Something without the chicken hands, but decent head, and more affordable to a casual fan so it will sell more.

I see now.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Do yuo mean the skinny arms on the VF-0??? The VF-1's arms are not that skinny.

No I mean the 1/48 had "girly arms" which people liked to note compared to the first 1/60 yamatos. (noticeable in a side by side battroid comparison shot)

It's upper arms just seems less beefy and chunky than 1/60. (1/48 just seems longer and thinner for the fighter mode people) Although nothing can erase the memory of bad headsculpt of 1/60 vf-1s compared to the 1/48 so we are kinda forced to get 1/48.

Now with these new 1/60 people have more choice. Something without the chicken hands, but decent head, and more affordable to a casual fan so it will sell more.

Edit: I think the chicken hands were the 1/48s main weakness: it means because of the larger gunpod it must hold compared to the 1/60, the 1/48 hands and wrists; which look skinnier and less bulky than the the 1/60 despite being a bigger toy overall, now has problems handling the long gunpod properly in battroid mode. The general limp wristed-ness of that can be a pain in the ass so you tend to leave the toy alone. (like how you wouldn't play with your master piece prime)

Ideally you want your robot mode to have tough hands, (for holding the long weapons easily) but still be sleek and sexy in fighter mode. I think a smaller sized valks takes some of the stress away from the wrists a little bit so that's why I think smaller = "more playable". No gangly limbs or joints that can barely support the weight of the things it must hold, getting in the way of your fun which is going to be a problem with a larger toy. Because in a smaller toy they will simplify it and make it chunky, that also has the side effect of making the handling of the weapon more stable. (but I guess you won't get the detail of individual articulated fingers and stuff that people like in the "masterpiece" toys) This is why so many prefer just using the clown hands for the 1/48s due to the weak wrists despite the lessened articulation.

Edited January 6, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Vermillion21]

Just checked around online ... this baby's gonna cost around $200 + shipping .. holy S---!!

Man, Yamato prices keep getting higher & higher ... frak!!!

[ruskiiVFaussie]

preordered 5 omega pants selection to match my 5 YFs

Originally wanted 5, then early birded 4, and reduced the total order to a tally of 3.

Yamato hit us with 1/60 perfect VF-1's.... i blame EXO. :P

So that means i have one for Battroid, one for Kamakazi mode, and 1 for normal Fighter mode with FP's.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Just checked around online ... this baby's gonna cost around $200 + shipping .. holy S---!!

ohmy.gif

Man, Yamato prices keep getting higher & higher ... frak!!!

dry.gif

They need some competition imo. If there were more companies making high detail large size macross toys, prices would come down. Maybe if there was a japanese version of toynami which made durable stuff and never teased people with vaporware and instead were fast at releasing it? That would bring balance to the force. Yamato seem to have a monopoly so as long as people keep paying the high cost prices will stay high.

Edited January 6, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[jenius]

Yamato seem to have a monopoly so as long as people keep paying the high cost prices will stay high.

There are licenses involved so monopoly is kind of the name of the game. We, as consumers, have ultimate say in what the price is. They will only charge as much as we are willing to pay. If you stop buying astronomically priced toys they'll stop charging such a huge mark-up on them.

[Nani?!]

There are licenses involved so monopoly is kind of the name of the game. We, as consumers, have ultimate say in what the price is. They will only charge as much as we are willing to pay. If you stop buying astronomically priced toys they'll stop charging such a huge mark-up on them.

All technically true but where else are we going to find comparable good macross toys to completely stop buying them?

It's teetering over to be right in saying how much "we have to pay" rather than how much "we're willing to pay."

Yamato needs some serious competition. Correction. We need yamato to have serious competition in the form of Bandai. It'll not only raise the quality of the toys, but drop their price down as well.

[jenius]

It's teetering over to be right in saying how much "we have to pay" rather than how much "we're willing to pay."

LOL, addict.

[do not disturb]

LOL, addict.

these are the type of collectors every company loves. all they have to do is make it and collectors will buy it regardless of how ridiculous the price, which is pretty much whats been going on with every yammie release.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if everyone on MW stop placing pre-orders and just waited like 3 months to purchase stuff after its been released, we'd all be paying a lot less for these toys. but when fans place preorders and state that they're willing to pay $200+ after seeing the first round of prototype pics, it makes it too easy for any seller to take advantage.

if its one thing i've noticed its that a lot of people here don't hold their cards close to their chests so to speak. they want to show you their hand and what they're willing to bet, before the first round of betting, even before its their turn.

[miriya]

these are the type of collectors every company loves. all they have to do is make it and collectors will buy it regardless of how ridiculous the price, which is pretty much whats been going on with every yammie release.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if everyone on MW stop placing pre-orders and just waited like 3 months to purchase stuff after its been released, we'd all be paying a lot less for these toys. but when fans place preorders and state that they're willing to pay $200+ after seeing the first round of prototype pics, it makes it too easy for any seller to take advantage.

if its one thing i've noticed its that a lot of people here don't hold their cards close to their chests so to speak. they want to show you their hand and what they're willing to bet, before the first round of betting, even before its their turn.

Good points there. I tend to agree but I also am guilty of the fanatical pre-order madness. Yamato does not need to charge this much to make these. Especially now that they are a sucessful toy company that has established itself. The cost for them to make the first 1/72 must have been huge and I am sure it was a gamble for them and likewise with the first gen 1/60s. I am guessing but am rather confident in saying that those probably cost them more to make than the vf-0 line which was double in price. What I am saying is that they are most likely charging WAY MORE than they need to in order to make a profit ONLY because we are willing to dish it out (and then complain). Whatever. . .

[do not disturb]

What I am saying is that they are most likely charging WAY MORE than they need to in order to make a profit ONLY because we are willing to dish it out (and then complain). Whatever. . .

pretty much. i think its really funny when the people say they placed a pre-order for such and such toy from HLJ, then bitch about how much they've been paying afterwards(though i'm sure i've been guilty of this in the past too).

if you place a preorder at some ridiculous price, you shouldn't complain about paying too much. complaining about prices doesn't do nearly as much as keeping your wallet shut. 99.99% of the time, if no one buys it, the price comes down.

[eugimon]

Good points there. I tend to agree but I also am guilty of the fanatical pre-order madness. Yamato does not need to charge this much to make these. Especially now that they are a sucessful toy company that has established itself. The cost for them to make the first 1/72 must have been huge and I am sure it was a gamble for them and likewise with the first gen 1/60s. I am guessing but am rather confident in saying that those probably cost them more to make than the vf-0 line which was double in price. What I am saying is that they are most likely charging WAY MORE than they need to in order to make a profit ONLY because we are willing to dish it out (and then complain). Whatever. . .

Are you in manufacturing? How would you know if yamato needs to chrage this much or not? Can you tell us what the tooling costs on something with as many unique parts as the SV-51 or the yf-21 are? Or what the overhead is? How much the designers make? And it's not just yamato charging high prices, CM's Corporation, Megahouse, both of their recent offering have been priced rather high as well. I have the Megahouse tachikoma they released last year and I can sure as hell say that there's no reason to be charging that kind of money for a toy made of such crap materials and Ghost in the Shell is a far more popular show than Macross.

[Dante74]

These toys are meant for the Japanese market so whatever Japanese customer are willing to pay, we'll have to pay the same.

[miriya]

Are you in manufacturing? How would you know if yamato needs to chrage this much or not? Can you tell us what the tooling costs on something with as many unique parts as the SV-51 or the yf-21 are? Or what the overhead is? How much the designers make? And it's not just yamato charging high prices, CM's Corporation, Megahouse, both of their recent offering have been priced rather high as well. I have the Megahouse tachikoma they released last year and I can sure as hell say that there's no reason to be charging that kind of money for a toy made of such crap materials and Ghost in the Shell is a far more popular show than Macross.

I am not directly in manufacturing but I am a lame ass who thinks that he is the master of everything (a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing). Actually I generally hate it when people who know very little make absolutist claims as if they were the authority on the topic when it was really just a hunch turned bad due to ego and stubbornness.

That said, yes I am making invalid assumptions, but think of the overhead of a startup making detailed toys like this with a lot more diecast parts (the 1/72 and 1/60 gen1 lines) with a much smaller market and still getting by COMPARED to several years down the line with a hugely expanded market (no I am not a market analyst and do not have figures and am making assumptions), much less die cast, and the income from many repaints.

I dont know , it just seems to me ( a hunch) that if they could charge $70 for the 1/60 line back then, they should be able to charge the same or less for the 1/48 line now. My opinion IS FACT right? Just kidding, just a hunch.

Also, it is an incredible feat what they have done. Yamato has made many of our dreams come true! If you had asked me just after watching macross zero for the first time if I would pay $200 for a perfect transformation SV-51 nora type I would have said, " I will pay a limb for that gorgeous beast!". One of my good friends was in my office when my first 1/48 arrived. I showed it to him and was confessing how guilty I felt for paying $120 for it and he said, "I cant believe that they could make something so detailed and beautiful for so cheap!". It is all perspective when it comes to Willingness to pay.

It would be interesting to see Yamatos finances but really, I dont care. I am happy to support them, even if they are making a killing off of me, if it means that their success will ensure a Macross F VF-25 super with armor. In 3 years down the line I may even be willing to pay an absurd fee for that. There is a balance though that has to be made, if the figures are too much money not enough people will buy them and or they will become more of an elitist item, and if the prices are too low, with their limited market (adult macross fan toy hobby collector geeks like me), no matter how low the price is they will not sell enough.

I have a headache now and give up.

[thankheaven]

Has it been confirmed in any way that you can attach the gunpods on the bellyplates without the fastpacks on ?

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Eugimon is right about the fact that we don't know enough about Yamato's structure to say how much they should charge for their products, this has been said in these forums a thousand times, but if you think about it, we do have enough information about the toy market to realize when a company is overpricing their products: we are collectors. Most of us have collected a wide variety of toys from different companies for years and we can compare factors like price, durability, engineering, number of parts, size of the company, etc.

That said, I think it's obvious that Yamato is overpricing their Valks, and they will keep pushing their prices up until the market (that's us) establishes the limit. Not to jump over the next preorder could be a good consumer's policy. You can always get the Valk of your dreams later on and even at a better price, if you have a little patience.

As much as I love the YF-21 (to get back on topic), I'm not preordering a 200+ toy I know nothing about (QC, etc). I've only done that with the Roy 0s and now I regret not having waited for the second edition.

Edited January 7, 2008 by Lonely Soldier Boy

[Nani?!]

I'm in manufacturing... it's nothing to do with toys... but I deal with japanese stuff. I think as far as the prices go, dante's comment rings the most as far as initial price goes, with dealer inflation coming in with the obsessive demand that DnD talked about.

Japanese goods to begin with, especially collectibles, are way overpriced. Is it just yamato? No, not by any means... but I only start to have a problem with them when they give us craptastic bullshizzle about them barely breaking even with this stuff.

I find it funny... Very funny... especially because they make it all in China.

They cut corners when they can (like any company will do) and they charge a killing for these things and still have QC issues with 99% percent of their first releases.

A lot of people will be happier even if it all cost the same amount for the stuff we're getting these days, but for everything we do get to be POLISHED... It's really the only thing they need to step into the next level as a company.

-----

DnD's point is a good one that would work, but on the flip side if everyone did it, maybe work too well and possibly trigger something in the light of what happened with Yamato back in the early part of this decade. News drought (silent treatment), and repaint after repaint... Basically, Yamato turning into the equivalent of a turtle hiding in it's shell and playing it safe.

It takes balls to release a totally new sculpt and pre-orders and audible fan demand gives them the balls to do so.

However, again, on the flip side, if we just kiss their ass with every release and brush off their QC issues with comments like "aww shucks yamato, It's okay, I'll just file that down and nail polish it in a jiffy", and yeah like DnD said, jump on every pre-order x 5, they'll just say "oops, hehe sorry dudes, just buy another one in the second batch ".

It's a balance. We need both the cheerleaders and the pit bulls.

[do not disturb]

Eugimon is right about the fact that we don't know enough about Yamato's structure to say how much they should charge for their products, this has been said in these forums a thousand times, but if you think about it, we do have enough information about the toy market to realize when a company is overpricing their products: we are collectors. Most of us have collected a wide variety of toys from different companies for years and we can compare factors like price, durability, engineering, number of parts, size of the company, etc.

That said, I think it's obvious that Yamato is overpricing their Valks, and they will keep pushing their prices up until the market (that's us) establishes the limit. Not to jump over the next preorder could be a good consumer's policy. You can always get the Valk of your dreams later on and even at a better price, if you have a little patience.

As much as I love the YF-21 (to get back on topic), I'm not preordering a 200+ toy I know nothing about (QC, etc). I've only done that with the Roy 0s and now I regret not having waited for the second edition.

this is my problem with pre-ordering and not pre-ordering...

the problem with pre-ordering is, you might end up getting some POS QC ridden toy straight out the factory ala 1st run of the VF-0's. sometimes the pre-order price you got a deal on, wasn't much of a deal to begin with(i.e. HLJ early bird) and you end up paying more for the same toy everyone is paying less for. sometimes they make fixes but you've already forked over $200, do you really want to fork over another $200 for the same toy?

the problem with not pre-ordering is, if you wait too long, all the good ones will be gone and you'll be choosing from the everyone else returns/exchanges and hoping to get something decent. this is exactly what happened to me with the SV-51...twice. despite knowing its existing problems, i wished i got my SV-51 when it first came out cause at least then, my chances of getting a unopened untampered one would've been far greater.

i placed a preorder for YF-21 knowing full well it could be a total POS straight from the factory but after the SV-51 fiasco, i have no desire to help sellers move their returned/damaged stock. i'd rather get a QC ridden toy than someone elses secondhand used POS any day.