justvinnie Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Removable limbs don't bother me as long as 1) it's secure when attached and 2) it's not required for transformation Exactly. Why is everyone having such a cow about such a feature?
eugimon Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Exactly. Why is everyone having such a cow about such a feature? maybe because yamato doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to selecting the right materials for high stress applications? Maybe because they've released 4 toys now where limbs just fell off? maybe because of the: don't worry the vf-0a CF is fixed! oh wait, just kidding. don't worry, the shin vf-0a is fixed! oh wait, just kidding... only SOME of them are fixed. Don't worry, free replacement arms! Oh wait, they're not free. fisaco.
Mog Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 With all this talk about whether the beaver tail is anime accurate or whether Yamato should add the delimiter mode feature, you know what I'd like the FEET to do? 1) Support and keep upright the battroid in a variety of poses. 2) Make that beautiful "click-click-click" sound of good-old reliable, rachet joints. 3) And if at all possible, I'd like the feet to have that "lateral wiggle" that the 1/48 VF-1's have, so the feet can easily support a nice, wide A-stance. Call me silly or simple, but now I just want no QC issues or no design flaws on the YF-21. Yamato's already giving us a sleek fighter, the dual gunpods, and the fast packs with this first release. Now, I just hope they put that same amount of effort into their design and quality control for this bird. Regarding us "having such a cow," our main concern about the detachable limbs is that "removable" could easily result in "loose" or "floopy" joints. I'd much rather have a poseable Valk that can hold a ton of poses than a loose-jointed mess. If the delimiter mode has to be sacrificed for solid and poseable limbs, I'm willing to live with that loss.
Wicked Ace Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 I guess I'm just too stupid to make the connection between breaking limbs (due to shoddy/mismatched materials) and limbs designed to be removable. Anyway, I'm not keen on the removable limbs; instead, I hope the feet (leg) positioning is designed the way it is for detail rather than amputee purposes.
eugimon Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 I guess I'm just too stupid to make the connection between breaking limbs (due to shoddy/mismatched materials) and limbs designed to be removable. Anyway, I'm not keen on the removable limbs; instead, I hope the feet (leg) positioning is designed the way it is for detail rather than amputee purposes. my point is, if yamato can't be trusted to use the right materials on a limb that isn't supposed to fall off, why gamble that they will properly select and TEST a material that will be used on such a high stress area? You're just asking for trouble. I am, in general, against gimmicks, that by design, will introduce new points of failure and create stress on the materials. Even if you're just pulling a peg in and out, eventually the nubs that hold the peg in place will wear thin and you'll have a loose limb. Or, if yamato actually bothers to engineer some sort of locking mechanism, you have extra bulk. If I was buying a 15 dollar transformer, I wouldn't care if it had giant forearms to accomodate missiles for hands or whatever but I'm not, I'm buying a 200 dollar collectible toy and I just want a company that has a spotty record with the BASICS to get that right. Maybe after yamato has produced a few engineering and QC first releases (so far they have ZERO) I'll have more faith in them.
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 It seems to me that the japanese market thrives on accuracy, more so in recent years. If this is the case, this is the reason Yamato chose to go with removable limbs, for accuracy to the anime for Guld's final attack. IF Yamato did this. Also, sooner or later, if this wasn't done, someone either on these forums or a customizer elsewhere, would have done the same thing. If removable limbs were incorporated, I hope they only come off when you want them to, not unintentionally, like the first VF-11B release, and the VF-0's.
myk Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 There is a reason the feet are where they are. Can't say more for now. Graham What could be the intention of designing the feet that way? Hmmm... In regards to No-Limb mode, you can pretty much bet the house that'll be a gimmick on the toy, considering the importance of that mode in the movie. Whatever, I'll just leave it in F mode anyway, no need to worry about No-Limb mode, or whatever it's called...
Wicked Ace Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 my point is, if yamato can't be trusted to use the right materials on a limb that isn't supposed to fall off, why gamble that they will properly select and TEST a material that will be used on such a high stress area? You're just asking for trouble. Even if you're just pulling a peg in and out, eventually the nubs that hold the peg in place will wear thin and you'll have a loose limb. Or, if yamato actually bothers to engineer some sort of locking mechanism, you have extra bulk. Maybe after yamato has produced a few engineering and QC first releases (so far they have ZERO) I'll have more faith in them. Ah, I see. Don't trust Yamato to do anything right -- got it.
eugimon Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Ah, I see. Don't trust Yamato to do anything right -- got it. can you really blame me?
Wicked Ace Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 can you really blame me? Yamato hasn't exactly had a perfect track record. Hopefully, the 1/60 scale YF-21 will be a (another?) redeeming step in the right direction for the company.
myk Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 I don't really see them as having taken their "first" step towards redemption, yet...
Wicked Ace Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 I don't really see them as having taken their "first" step towards redemption, yet... Members seem pretty pleased with their SV-51s. Correct me if I'm wrong.
eugimon Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Yamato hasn't exactly had a perfect track record. Hopefully, the 1/60 scale YF-21 will be a (another?) redeeming step in the right direction for the company. if the 1/60 is perfect (within reason), no exploding joints, no wonky gunpods, no wings that don't fold right or parts that just plain don't fit. I'll be a happy camper and if it comes with discreetly removable limbs as a garnish, well, I'll order me a 2nd helping with a side of crow pie.
Mog Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Well, the sleek fighter mode, dual gunpods, accurate landing gear placement, and first release FAST PACKS(!!!!) are some good first steps with the 21. But still, Yamato absolutely, positively has to bring it's A-game on the design and QC side of things with the YF-21. And yes, after not purchasing any of the Zero releases, I'll step up, take the plunge, and be the test dummy on a couple of these first release birds.
eugimon Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Members seem pretty pleased with their SV-51s. Correct me if I'm wrong. well, just that one of the wings couldn't fold properly because some underpaid chinese worker couldn't figure out the difference between left and right. and the droopy wings. other than that, it's been pretty good. Close, but you know what my track coach used to say about coming in 2nd place? 2nd place just means you were the last to lose. He was a bitter old man, my track coach. I guess it rubbed off on me a little.
Wicked Ace Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 well, just that one of the wings couldn't fold properly because some underpaid chinese worker couldn't figure out the difference between left and right. and the droopy wings. other than that, it's been pretty good. Close, but you know what my track coach used to say about coming in 2nd place? 2nd place just means you were the last to lose. He was a bitter old man, my track coach. I guess it rubbed off on me a little. I agree with what you've posted, and I don't blame you one bit for being distrustful of Yamato ever since the VF-0. That being stated, I will point out that the hinge and droop are fairly minor annoyances compared to battroid arms breaking off.
Chronocidal Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 (edited) I'm an aircraft fanatic first, and this'll go nicely next to my YF-23 display model. So, really, I don't care as long as it looks good in fighter. Btw, anyone else notice the fold booster attachpoints on the back plate? Edited December 4, 2007 by Chronocidal
myk Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 (edited) Members seem pretty pleased with their SV-51s. Correct me if I'm wrong. Well here are a few examples: I would've never have known there was two right side pins. I would've either thought it was normal or forced it and broke it. Btw, not sure what makes it have a right and left pin, could you not pull the pin out, then just flip the backward part? and put the pin back into it? kind of sucks about the wings not being able to support the weight of the missiles/pods. it looks great so far but i'll have to wait for a review from someone whos brave enough to transform it first. The only thing is that the legs are either pretty heavy when in battroid mode or the ball joint at the intake area is loose which is quite frustrating when posing on the stand .The other loose parts will be the arm at the elbow area ,it tends to swivel abit here and there especially the arm that is going to carry the gun itself .And the wings which when fully loaded with its payload seems in stress as it it is pretty much weight down . Generally, it seems that there were some but not many factory errors, however the toy appears to share the same flopiness that its stablemates suffer from. I'll admit that after reading over 150 pages of '51 related threads the QC on probably the most complicated toy design from ANY manufacturer, Yamato did very well on this design and should be applauded. However, doing ONE thing MOSTLY right after an established history of errors and foul-ups does not set things right with the world-at least not mine. Therefor I still insist that Yamato has alot of ground to cover. Also, it's obvious that many fans/customers are satisfied with the '51, flopiness and all because, after all, what're you gonna' do? That's how Yamato rolls and we've all come to just accept that which is why, quality issues or not, I'll be lining up for the '21 as well... Edited December 4, 2007 by myk
Wicked Ace Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Well here are a few examples. . . I'll admit that after reading over 150 pages of '51 related threads the QC on probably the most complicated toy design from ANY manufacturer, Yamato did very well on this design and should be applauded. However, doing ONE thing MOSTLY right after an established history of errors and foul-ups does not set things right with the world-at least not mine. Therefor I still insist that Yamato has alot of ground to cover. So, is the SV-51 (sort of) a first step to Yamato redeeming itself? I don't own a SV-51 yet, so this question is of particular relevance to me.
eugimon Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 honestly, in terms of parts fitting together and everything locking in place in all modes, every release has been a disapointment compared to the 1/48. In fighter mode, the thing had almost no gaps and all the pieces just fit together beautifully. Everything was solid in all three modes and it could hold any pose the joints would allow. Since then, every single release from the POS konig, to the amazing destructo VF-0 has had some problems. Even the yf-19 and sv-51 which have been some amazing engineering have big body gaps or other wonkiness. I'm hoping the yf-21 regains some of the glory and luster that the 1/48 vf-1 brought yamato
Graham Posted December 4, 2007 Author Posted December 4, 2007 SV-51 Nora seems to be flawless so far. Amazing toy. Nice and tight too and I like em' tight! Graham
eugimon Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 SV-51 Nora seems to be flawless so far. Amazing toy. Nice and tight too and I like em' tight! Graham that's great, I'm honestly glad to hear that. Now yamato just needs to deliver quality like that, right out of the gate, the first time, with the first release. I'll be a happy camper.
ruskiiVFaussie Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 (edited) Sigh, well i just can't believe how awesome the 21 is in 1/60 scale, after watching and re-watching the add over and over again. Best times! Edited December 4, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie
dizman Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 (edited) Btw, anyone else notice the fold booster attachpoints on the back plate? Yeah I saw that as well, but Im not sure if that is an attachment point for the FB or just where the engine thing connects when it moves forward for transformation (maybe its both). Edited December 4, 2007 by dizman
Guld Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Yamato's site update!!!! http://www.yamato-toys.com/dev/release_001/ Is more beautiful than YF-19
jenius Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Eugimon, don't forget that the first release 1/48 had some issues too. It had the nosecone that fell off too easily and the wing flaps that were an issue. We also got crooked skulls, hip joints that cracked, and the BP8. Granted, the 1/48 overall is still Yamato's best release (by far) but we mustn't remember it as being sublime right from the gate. Still, the point is valid enough, I had a first edition 1/48 and loved it whereas I was afraid to friggin' touch my VF-0. What a shame.
eugimon Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 (edited) Eugimon, don't forget that the first release 1/48 had some issues too. It had the nosecone that fell off too easily and the wing flaps that were an issue. We also got crooked skulls, hip joints that cracked, and the BP8. Granted, the 1/48 overall is still Yamato's best release (by far) but we mustn't remember it as being sublime right from the gate. Still, the point is valid enough, I had a first edition 1/48 and loved it whereas I was afraid to friggin' touch my VF-0. What a shame. true true, but if the vf-0s shipped with the same level and type of issues as the vf-1a hikaru, I'd be a happy camper. but you have to admit, problems or not, in fighter mode, the 1/48 vf-1 still has the best fit of all the various parts and locks together the best out of any of the yamato macross toys. I guess I should have put a qualifier: best release for yamato... Edited December 4, 2007 by eugimon
Nani?! Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Eugimon, don't forget that the first release 1/48 had some issues too. It had the nosecone that fell off too easily and the wing flaps that were an issue. We also got crooked skulls, hip joints that cracked, and the BP8. Granted, the 1/48 overall is still Yamato's best release (by far) but we mustn't remember it as being sublime right from the gate. Still, the point is valid enough, I had a first edition 1/48 and loved it whereas I was afraid to friggin' touch my VF-0. What a shame. Right... I was just about to say myself... So far in my book yamato has yet to get newly released toy right the first time. It's kinda sad though... obviously they see it happen all the time... Make a few and test a couple before you release to the public. I'm sure the japanese & HK employees there working over time wont have an issue messing around with one an hour a day. Shoot, give graham a freelance gig and have him mess around with it. It really seems like yamato GUESSES it's QC all the time and releases a valk with it's fingers crossed. I personally wanted to have the option to have the limbs be removed with a detailed inside like the d-stance but I totally see where Eugimon is coming from though... This is frackin 100%-Sub-Par-QC-Yamato we're talking about here. The yf-19 had removable visors, but then had f-ed up landing gears and crooked gunpod attach points. So yea I agree, get the bloody basics right.
UN Spacy Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 Is more beautiful than YF-19 Dem's fighting words.
miriya Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 less pictures, more release date. How about release date and much more pictures!
Dante74 Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) Here's a pic for ya! The gunpod has a bit of that nostalgic style in it don't ya think? Also, the feet look a little small but it gives it that feminine Q-Rau feel. I wonder how they got the "landing gear" to fit in there? j/k Edited December 5, 2007 by Dante74
Macross007 Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 Here's a pic for ya! The gunpod has a bit of that nostalgic style in it don't ya think? Also, the feet look a little small but it gives it that feminine Q-Rau feel. I wonder how they got the "landing gear" to fit in there? WTF !!!
vermillion01 Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 Zardoz ws not Sean's finest hour. (good fun on acid tho )
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