Yamato 1/60 YF-21 News & Pics

[isamu_dyson]

I hope we'll see the front CAd drawing soon .. we can only sse the arm in the firm picture.

[Dobber]

I'm really wanting to see a profile in fighter mode. Wondering why that hasn't been shown yet. It doesn't appear to be with the others at Wonderfest, but those still weren't great pictures.

Chris

[Chindenathus]

Here, I cleaned up the cad picture:

The original:

Hope you folks like.

[isamu_dyson]

Nice work Chindenathus

Nobody have found a picture of the face battroid drawing ?

Edited August 15, 2007 by isamu_dyson

[cyde01]

in the pic there appears to be a front view CAD drawing of the battroid mode, just to the left of the side view. anyone find any better pics showing the front view of the battroid on the net?

Edited August 15, 2007 by cyde01

[Nani?!]

The D'stance is a tough act to follow.

It's about as perfect as you can get with the yf-21. But of course, it is a model.

Crappers, I wish I had the time to get into models.

[UN Spacy]

Looks quite top heavy in B-Mode.

[Nani?!]

Looks quite top heavy in B-Mode.

yeea... I know this is far fetched but if they make the limbs removable like the anime, I wonder if they can add a set of legs that'll look kick ass in battroid mode. Sorta like the liberty they took with the crotch piece with the GBP.

[Dobber]

I haven't followed this thread extremely closely, but is there a reason why we only have seen the top view in fighter mode well. Yet there are other views being shown at Wonderfest. I'd just really like to see what this baby looks like.

Chris

[ruskiiVFaussie]

yeea... I know this is far fetched but if they make the limbs removable like the anime, I wonder if they can add a set of legs that'll look kick ass in battroid mode. Sorta like the liberty they took with the crotch piece with the GBP.

That's a nice idea Nani. Not unreasonable, but of course i'd like only one set of legs, instead of swapping and changing.

I doubt they would do this.

Chris, i'd say Graham would be getting ready to post em up, as he said, the cats already out of the bag.

Why wait for decent scans when we have already seen pretty much 75% of the Official CADS....

Edited August 16, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie

[Mr March]

Damn, I'm sorry fellas. I guess in all the madness of the last update a few things were missed

I've uploaded a small addition to the YF-21 with the transformation sequences I was supposed to include. Here are the images directly:

Edited August 16, 2007 by Mr March

[Nani?!]

That's a nice idea Nani. Not unreasonable, but of course i'd like only one set of legs, instead of swapping and changing.

I doubt they would do this.

Chris, i'd say Graham would be getting ready to post em up, as he said, the cats already out of the bag.

Why wait for decent scans when we have already seen pretty much 75% of the Official CADS....

Swapping is not my cup of tea either but if they can make it look like the D-stance in battroid MAN OH MAN.

I just hope it's thighs are TIGHT... I dont want mine going "how low can you go~, how low can you go~~" flippin back all the time because of the backpack weight.

[Mr March]

Ironically, the best way to hide the arms, and actually make the YF-21 look sleeker, is to fatten up the wing root. The problem with a lot of -21's is having basically no wingroot/blend, just skinny wings stuck right on to the upper fuselage. If you fatten up the inner wing, everything looks better, and there's somewhere to hide the arm. That really was the original Yamato's biggest problem. No wing root---it was 1mm thick. That's also where the landing gear go, so it needs to be fat anyways. It all goes together--having a fat wingroot makes the belly look better, gives room for the arms to hide, and room for correctly-placed landing gear.

I couldn't agree more with this. And as luck would have it, this is the way the actual line art is designed as well. The wing roots are very large compared to the main wings themselves. Plus we all know compromise must be made on certain areas to make the toy work (like the YF-19 gullet). I see no reason why your suggestion shouldn't be embraced by Yamato on the YF-21. It makes perfect sense.

Here's a line art shot:

[Vic Mancini]

Thanks for the scans March.

I still don't understand where the shoulders come from, though.

I never realized the shingles on the underside of the engines in the open leg bay sequence could open/close. So the 21 actually produces thrust from that area in G-mode, huh? That makes a lot of sense given the off-balance of having the legs/feet thrusters so far forward. That's really cool. That being said, there is absolutely no way the legs can be stored in the space in that sketch for F-mode.. That's pure anime magic right there.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Vic Mancini

[eugimon]

Mr March's scan actually is edited, there's a little sketch in between steps 2 and 4 that explains the shoulders, but not very clearly.

From what i can make out, it goes like this, the true shoulder joint on the yf-21 is not where one would expect it to be. If you look at the side profile of fighter mode, you'll notice a little notch that connects the air intake assembly and the upper arm. That notch indicates the actual shoulder linkage. The arm flips out from that point and the shoulder pads rotate out from inside the air intake/wing root and over the upper arm.

[David Hingtgen]

Vic--the opening louvers are for GERWALK mode---it's so it can hover---the main engine nozzles still point aft in that mode, and the feet have no thrusters (unlike all other valks)---so it needs some way to stay up in the air, thus it has thrust vectored from the underside of the fuselage.

The louvers may be a cascade, but I'm not sure that term applies to the "large and slatted" variety of vectoring vanes. It's *very* similar to the F-15S/MTD's thrust reverser assembly.

[Valkyrie addict]

errrrrr....anyway

I'm just psyched that we're getting a lot of macross stuff this year

SV-51 ivanov and nora, YF-19 with FP and foldildo, VF-0A/S with ghost combo, YF-21, Kayodo super posable VF's, a new macross series and who knows what other goodies

this is certainly the best time to be a macross fan and the worst time to be a wallet

[Vic Mancini]

Vic--the opening louvers are for GERWALK mode---it's so it can hover---the main engine nozzles still point aft in that mode, and the feet have no thrusters (unlike all other valks)---so it needs some way to stay up in the air, thus it has thrust vectored from the underside of the fuselage.

The louvers may be a cascade, but I'm not sure that term applies to the "large and slatted" variety of vectoring vanes. It's *very* similar to the F-15S/MTD's thrust reverser assembly.

Errr, that was a typo. I meant G-mode, not B-mode.

...hence when I said, "That makes a lot of sense given the off-balance of having the legs/feet thrusters so far forward."

I'm confused, but not so confused as to think that the slats would be used for B-mode!

PS. Are you sure the feet don't have thrusters at all? Obviously the main engines don't funnel through them, (I was always aware of that), but I can't believe it would be a very effective or maneuverable Gerwalk with no feet thrusters. How would it even maneuver at low velocity? ...Or hover for that matter? The slats that I never noticed are clearly behind the center of gravity.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Vic Mancini

[Wicked Ace]

the feet have no thrusters (unlike all other valks)

I was under the impression that the -21's feet have thrusters or something very much like them.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Wicked Ace

[Mr March]

Mr March's scan actually is edited, there's a little sketch in between steps 2 and 4 that explains the shoulders, but not very clearly.

Actually, it's not. I took that picture from the OVA book. I should know better by now

Here's the scan from the Movie Edition book, that includes the little arm sketch to which you referred (sharp eye eugimon!):

*EDIT: Original YF-21 Transformation pictures refined and updated.*

Edited August 16, 2007 by Mr March

[eugimon]

ah.

and all this time I was thinking what a great job you did cleaning up the sketches!

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

I love the detail of the underfeet. I hope Yamato's 21 end up looking like that.

As for the feet thrusters, they give me the impression that they're just to slow down very rapidly in the air when the 21 transforms from F to G (it's a very useful feature in all Valks, so I doubt Kawamori would let the 21 without it), more like a vernier, than an actual thruster.

Edit: From the lineart looks like the shoulder pad is hidden inside the intakes and flips out. That explains it to me, and it's somewhat doable.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Lonely Soldier Boy

[Mr March]

ah.

and all this time I was thinking what a great job you did cleaning up the sketches!

I did clean up the first batch. The first batch looks so much better because the OVA Book featured much larger drawings (why I used it in the first place). The Movie Book drawings are REALLY small (I had to do a 1,200 DPI scan to get them big enough for posting) but as you already noted, the YF-21 transformation drawings in the Movie Book and Shoji Kawamori's Macross Design Works contain much more detail.

I'll likely add the missing pieces of this Movie Book scan to the OVA book scans and produce the definitive version...of course But first...I must sleep!

Edited August 16, 2007 by Mr March

[eugimon]

I'm hoping too as well, given how unremarkable the yf-19's feet are, I want some nice detailing on the yf-21!

[David Hingtgen]

Ok, if nothing else, the -21's foot thrusters (if there are any) certainly aren't anywhere near as powerful as a YF-19's, so to have even comparable speed/power/agility in GERWALK mode, it'd need another set of engines or something to help it hover. If may have foot thrusters, but that alone isn't enough to hover with. Thus vectoring the main engines' thrust out through the slats in the fuselage. (since we've seen every other valk requires basically full power of the main engines to hover in GERWALK mode)

[Wicked Ace]

Ok, if nothing else, the -21's foot thrusters (if there are any) certainly aren't anywhere near as powerful as a YF-19's, so to have even comparable speed/power/agility in GERWALK mode, it'd need another set of engines or something to help it hover. If may have foot thrusters, but that alone isn't enough to hover with. Thus vectoring the main engines' thrust out through the slats in the fuselage. (since we've seen every other valk requires basically full power of the main engines to hover in GERWALK mode)

I'm unaware of any sources that definitively tell us what's what. The -21's foot just has that hole in it, which suggests (at least to me) some kind of "thruster." Foot thrusters aside, I'd like to see how the intakes work on the -21 with all the limbs in the way; I'd love to see the ducting (or "ram air") diagram.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Wicked Ace

[Scream Man]

Perhaps they're thrusters for maneuvering in Space? U wouldnt need very powerful thrusters to keep the thing in the air, just assist in maneuvering.

looking at the side on CAD drawing, it dpes appear that the hull/wingroot is thicker than the wing ina sort of taper. i suspect we will get wheels in the proper place.

[PsYcHoDyNaMiX]

I just checked the Macross Plus (movie edition). It doesnt show the YF-21 at all using the thrusters on the feet if there ever were. Bleh its late for me and I'm just feeling too lazy to look through the Macross Plus OVA... XD.

K. Back to working on the 1/72 Hasegawa conversion!!!

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Perhaps they're thrusters for maneuvering in Space? U wouldnt need very powerful thrusters to keep the thing in the air, just assist in maneuvering.

looking at the side on CAD drawing, it dpes appear that the hull/wingroot is thicker than the wing ina sort of taper. i suspect we will get wheels in the proper place.

But thrusters in the feet would be very useful when navigating in space, and to an extent to slow a decent in atmosphere.

Seems stupid really if they never intended thrusters in the feet, it's like it's a waste of opportunity.

So with the powers of fan-boy fan-fic whatever you call it, i'm going to say there ARE thrusters in the feet, powerful or not.

What about the fast-stop maneouver? Gerwalk mode needs that!

Edited August 16, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie

[PsYcHoDyNaMiX]

Here you guys go. A better view of the 21's under foot.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Looks like a little thurster there! ... maybe

Edited August 16, 2007 by ruskiiVFaussie

[kensei]

But thrusters in the feet would be very useful when navigating in space, and to an extent to slow a decent in atmosphere.

Seems stupid really if they never intended thrusters in the feet, it's like it's a waste of opportunity.

So with the powers of fan-boy fan-fic whatever you call it, i'm going to say there ARE thrusters in the feet, powerful or not.

What about the fast-stop maneouver? Gerwalk mode needs that!

I think there is better control over the battroid if you have the main thrusters attached to the main mass. I think this is why the battroid mode of the 21 is superior over the others, it mimicks the inertia vector control system of the Q-Rau.

[Vic Mancini]

Ok, if nothing else, the -21's foot thrusters (if there are any) certainly aren't anywhere near as powerful as a YF-19's, so to have even comparable speed/power/agility in GERWALK mode, it'd need another set of engines or something to help it hover.

Yes... it's probably true that the feet of the 19 are more powerful than the feet of the 21, but that doesn't mean that the 21's feet still aren't very powerful, (and possibly even a lot more powerful than they need to be.) Obviously those slats are part of what supplies the lift in G mode there is no denying that, but I can't believe there would be no foot thrusters to aid in the forward balance, and stopping/maneuvering. Without some kind of foot thrusters, the 21 would just lift and tilt forward until it fell on it's nose cone in G mode. I don't see how it could hover in a stationary position with only the use of the slats.

If may have foot thrusters, but that alone isn't enough to hover with. Thus vectoring the main engines' thrust out through the slats in the fuselage. (since we've seen every other valk requires basically full power of the main engines to hover in GERWALK mode)

Again, I strongly disagree with that, especially in the case of the YVFs which had absolutely insane thrust to weight ratios that could launch them into orbit in less than a minute....and that's with their limiters enabled. I can't believe so much power would be lost simply from going from F to B/G mode that it would require full throttle just to hover.

Also, if a valk required full thrust just to hover in G mode, then it would not even be able to climb in altitude, and we've seen Valks accelerate upwards rapidly in all 3 modes.

[David Hingtgen]

Even if the YF-21's foot thrust was somehow enough to hover in GERWALK---it'd still have a massive disadvantage compared to the -19. It sure couldn't climb as fast etc. So, even if "only to match the -19's abilities" a -21 needs a good chunk of lifting thrust from the main engines, via the louvers. It may be able to hover as well as a VF-1 on foot thrust alone, but it's trying to win a cutting-edge competition against a plane with far more foot thrust, so it's going to need something else.

As for the intake duct---simple, they curve upwards immediately after the intake lip. The engines are mounted higher than the intake lip. Similar to the YF-23. Lots of planes have the engines higher than the intake lip, with the intake curving up to the engine---A-7, F-8, F-16, F-18. I think a good bit of the nacelle is actually just ducting on the upper fuselage, with the engine themselves being quite short and only occupying the extreme rear of the nacelle. There's of course anime magic, but Kawamori didn't completely eliminate the air path.

[Vic Mancini]

Even if the YF-21's foot thrust was somehow enough to hover in GERWALK---it'd still have a massive disadvantage compared to the -19. It sure couldn't climb as fast etc. So, even if "only to match the -19's abilities" a -21 needs a good chunk of lifting thrust from the main engines, via the louvers. It may be able to hover as well as a VF-1 on foot thrust alone, but it's trying to win a cutting-edge competition against a plane with far more foot thrust, so it's going to need something else.

You're going on a tangent that has very little to do with what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the competition with the 19, I never denied the need for lift to come from the rear slats, and I certainly didn't mean to suggest that the 21 could defeat the 19 in a competition even without the use of it's main source of lift in G mode. My very acknowledging of the slats is what originally started this sub thread. Obviously the main lift is provided from the slats, that is clear from the diagram which I saw for the first time tonight. That's a hella-cool feature of the 21 that I never knew about.

All I'm saying is that the 21 almost certainly must have foot thrusters as well. It probably couldn't physically hover without them, and that's not a lift/power issue, it's a balance issue. It would be similar, (although not exactly the same), to the F-35 trying to VTOL without the use of the forward fan.

And I also disagree with the notion of needing full thrust to maintain a hover in G or B mode. I've always been under the impression that every valk, (even the zeros and 51s), had far more than enough thrust to make a powerful vertical accent in any mode. But that's just the impression that I have from watching the various Macross series and OVAs. I fully admit I don't know very much technical info about any Valks. I just find it incomprehensible that so much power could be lost from F to B/G mode just from the diversion of energy to the limbs and armor. We're talking about some valks that can travel at speeds of over mach 20 and can go from take off to orbit in seconds.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Vic Mancini