PsYcHoDyNaMiX Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 (edited) YES!!! I would like to see something physical... in one of those magazine articles! ***EDIT*** I guess we'll see some magazine articles for the YF-21 in the next two months or so. Seeing that some of the magazine companies published articles 4 months prior to the release of the product. Edited August 14, 2007 by PsYcHoDyNaMiX
Lonely Soldier Boy Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 I also felt bothered about the bell bottom part being to small, but we can't see the whole leg because of the SV-51 silouette getting in the way. Maybe the other half compensates visually for that. In any case I remember how different was the Garland prototype compared to the actual toy (specially the legs) and this is but the CAD. I also remember how dissapointed I felt when Graham first posted the YF-19 CADs and now everybody is so happy with it.
Nani?! Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 (edited) CAD drawings usually make rounded parts look bigger. The calf is a rounded part and it looks pretty tapered down even on the CAD, so I can imagine it might look smaller three dimensionally . It's not line art accurate that for sure, but yea, I realize that making a real-life-scale-transforming-model-of- a-fictional-animated-transforming-robot is hard. It's probably a compromise for the sake of a sleek fighter mode. All this is juuuuuussstt speculation. Part of the fun of anticipating. Edited August 14, 2007 by Nani?!
eugimon Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 meh, everybody kicked and moaned when the yf-19 CAD was shown and griped about this or that. There's speculation and then there's just rampant battying about stuff we don't know.
Macross73 Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 No sense in worrying about stuff that isn't there. Cant wait to see this thing when its done. lets face it , its about frickin time that this was made
Nani?! Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 meh, everybody kicked and moaned when the yf-19 CAD was shown and griped about this or that. There's speculation and then there's just rampant battying about stuff we don't know. Yea, and what was mentioned about the yf-19 CAD all made it to the final. Wide gap between legs, gullet, skeletor hands. And just as they were points I disliked in the CAD, they remain aspects of the yf-19 sculpt that I don't like. No one talks about it now because it's done and over with. And what do you mean "stuff we dont know"? I'm talking about a visible area projected by the CAD that seems off to me. If you think it sounds like battying, pass on and ignore it~ No sense in worrying about stuff that isn't there. Cant wait to see this thing when its done. lets face it , its about frickin time that this was made I'm happy as anyone this thing is being made but what I comment about is visible and there.
Mr March Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Did you purchase a 1/60 scale YF-19 or did the problems keep you away from it?
Vic Mancini Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 Yea, and what was mentioned about the yf-19 CAD all made it to the final. Wide gap between legs, gullet, skeletor hands. And just as they were points I disliked in the CAD, they remain aspects of the yf-19 sculpt that I don't like. No one talks about it now because it's done and over with. Don't speak for everyone. I was displeased with the gullet of the 19 the first time I saw the CAD too, but the reason I accept it now is not because "it's over and done with", it's because at the time I was used to the Hasegawa fighter mode but the gullet of the Yamato actually is more anime accurate. Now a days I can barely even look at the Hasegawa YF-19. It looks strange to me. It just took time to get used to a different rendition than I was accustomed to.
Valkyrie addict Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 I'll wait for pictures... looks promising, I don't care if it's 'completely' anime accurate, that's next to impossible thanks to anime magic or to some ingenious way to make it all happen in a toy, I only want the thing to be nice and tight, durable and not excessively expensive
mister_e Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 and not excessively expensive I'm afraid that ship sailed long ago j/k
eugimon Posted August 14, 2007 Posted August 14, 2007 OMG, yes, let's bring out the chicken hands. After 4 years of the chicken hand, I don't think yamato is going to change it anytime soon, so go on, bring out that tired pony and ride it around the ring one more time. And what are you comparing the bell bottom to? The line art? The animation? Non transforming kit bashes? the front curve looks to me pretty much the same as the line art, and as I've already stated, the rear part of the calf would swell out behind the belly plate which we can't see. Again, this is just like the "gullet" crap from the CAD drawing, everyone comparing it to everything BUT the line art. And please, if you don't want people to respond to your posts, then why don't you not post it? do you really expect that people should just accept what you have to say at face value and not respond? Or are you the queen of england and should we all just bow and accept your edicts as fact?
danth Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 What, this Nani guy thinks he can second-guess Yamato? Infidel! Let's lynch him!
Nani?! Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 OMG, yes, let's bring out the chicken hands. After 4 years of the chicken hand, I don't think yamato is going to change it anytime soon, so go on, bring out that tired pony and ride it around the ring one more time. And what are you comparing the bell bottom to? The line art? The animation? Non transforming kit bashes? the front curve looks to me pretty much the same as the line art, and as I've already stated, the rear part of the calf would swell out behind the belly plate which we can't see. Again, this is just like the "gullet" crap from the CAD drawing, everyone comparing it to everything BUT the line art. And please, if you don't want people to respond to your posts, then why don't you not post it? do you really expect that people should just accept what you have to say at face value and not respond? Or are you the queen of england and should we all just bow and accept your edicts as fact? I love what you said about the queen of England! That's exactly what I want to say about yamato! *thumbs up* Yes, you can comment on what I post. Who said anything about not wanting people to respond to my post? I love to debate. Forums are MADE to debate, tug and pull opinions. OPINIONS. You are always welcome to counter-point and say "the legs look FINE to me." People have counterpointed quite a bit (even graham) but you never see me saying "you're battying, so STFU" I'm really not fond of the way you try to shut people up by saying their opinions are "battying and bringing out the tired pony." It's almost as if you take offense to this stuff... You jumped at David H, myself and pretty much anyone who you think is "battying." I'll tell you right now I'll say "chicken hands" till my face turns blue... I hate those skinny, f*ggy hands. What bewilders me is "WHY THE HELL ARE YOU PISSED OFF?" I don't post unavoidable sound clips... They are written words you have to READ... CHOOSE not to read them if they bother you. My post are nicely labeled by a visible avatar with guld grimacing and my screen name NANI?! nicely labeled above it. You live in a democratic society don't you? CHOOSE TO AVOID READING if you think I'm battying.
Wicked Ace Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 "you're battying, so STFU" "Battying" isn't a word I've ever used before, but I do look forward to using this statement in a conversation with one of my friends.
Nani?! Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Don't speak for everyone. I was displeased with the gullet of the 19 the first time I saw the CAD too, but the reason I accept it now is not because "it's over and done with", it's because at the time I was used to the Hasegawa fighter mode but the gullet of the Yamato actually is more anime accurate. Now a days I can barely even look at the Hasegawa YF-19. It looks strange to me. It just took time to get used to a different rendition than I was accustomed to. Valid point. and I definitely dont think I speak for everyone. I actually edited a CAD drawing before the yf-19 came out and did not do away with the gullet completely but pulled it back a tiny bit.... which it definitely has room for... You're lucky you gotten used to it now. I personally try not to angle my yf-19 in an angle that shows the gullet. I've said this many times but since "STFU" people like Eugimon are still here, I'll say it again. There are some things that HAVE changed for the better because people here voiced their opinions and valid points. Some have been in agreement with Graham and thus he relayed it to yamato.... and sometimes yamato agrees and make adjustments. Who knows? We might have had blue feet yf-19's if we hadn't said anything. We might have ended up with the god awful 1/100 "thunder-thighs" vf-0s, or heck maybe no sv-51 at all.... THEY (yamato) DO LISTEN.... and I know Graham CANT flat out admit that they do... BUT they do... and the international market is a major market for them... and that's why it's worth mentioning for me.
David Hingtgen Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Posting as a mod: I saw enough bitching in the YF-19 thread, I don't want to read the same arguments over again this time around. Some people will love certain features and aspects of the new YF-21, others will hate the exact same thing. Some people will cite the line art, some will cite the animation, and some will cite a design works concept sketch. People do have a right to disagree over anything and anything, but you may not say they are wrong/flame them for their opinion. There is no "one, true way" that the YF-21 looks FYI, it changes depending on Kawamori and the animator's mood. I personally think the YF-21 looks very nice so far, and that Yamato did a better job than they did on the -19. And since the -21 inherently has adjustable anhedral as part of the transformation, there won't be any arguing about that. PS--no complaining about people complaining about complainer's complaints. Or stuff along those lines. This is an important thread (like any new Yamato toy get), and I'm sure I'm not the only mod who reads it frequently. If something really gets out of hand, we'll deal with it. Or if we don't see it, PM us. Don't go off on another member who's bugging you. (Though personally, I am far more lenient than other mods regarding "peacefully defending yourself from a flamer") PPS---the most-commonly-cited, considered-most-canon VF-11 side-view lineart has the tailfins completely and totally wrong compared to every other reference, I'm just pointing that fact out ahead of time. (unless you want to say that view's correct, and everything else is wrong)
eugimon Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Please, I hardly jump on everyone who's battying. for example, when we all thought the CAD showed the low lying nacelles, I too voiced my concern about it and I pointed out why low lying nacelles would be inconsistent with the line art. And when David posted a clearer image, I was happy that I was wrong. What I cannot stand, is when people start going off about stuff they can't see. There's a big difference in pointing out existing flaws like the yf-19's crooked gunpod, the Vf-0 crap shoulders, etc etc... and then there's just running around moaning the world is coming to end based on what? CAD art that was used as background for a completely different toy, on a part of the toy that is partially obscured?
Sumdumgai Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 I want to see a side-view of the cad art. I'm dying to see how they integrated the arms in fighter mode, and particularly the shoulders. I've never cared for the YF-21 gerwalk so for me personally it's unimportant. As long as it can stand on its own in gerwalk, without tumbling, I'll be happy.
eugimon Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 yeah, same here. Just going on SK's line art, I don't even know where the shoulder pads are supposed to go, they just seem to disapear.
Wicked Ace Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 I saw enough battying in the YF-19 thread, I don't want to read the same arguments over again this time around. PS--no complaining about people complaining about complainer's complaints. Aw, I didn't get the chance to post up anything negative. It's so not fair.
David Hingtgen Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 The D'stance had the shoulder pads totally disappear, fairly ingeniously. Don't know what Yamato is going to do. Their previous version flat-out sucked in that regard----with everyone knowing about the D'stance now we can hope the new Yamato does at least as well with the shoulders/arms in fighter mode. Here's the D'stance:
eugimon Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 ah. I really hope yamato can make theirs look as nice as that.
David Hingtgen Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Ironically, the best way to hide the arms, and actually make the YF-21 look sleeker, is to fatten up the wing root. The problem with a lot of -21's is having basically no wingroot/blend, just skinny wings stuck right on to the upper fuselage. If you fatten up the inner wing, everything looks better, and there's somewhere to hide the arm. That really was the original Yamato's biggest problem. No wing root---it was 1mm thick. That's also where the landing gear go, so it needs to be fat anyways. It all goes together--having a fat wingroot makes the belly look better, gives room for the arms to hide, and room for correctly-placed landing gear.
eugimon Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 I wonder if yamato will taper the thickness of the wing then, and not just have a thin line of plastic jutting out?
Sumdumgai Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Actually, after having stared at the transformation sequence on pg90 of th Design Works, I noticed something. If you look in the top right of the page, at step 4A (between the fighter mode with the bays swinging down to expose the legs, and the am and leg swinging out with the arrows, to the left), it shows where the shoulder is transparently through the wing. It looks like it's got the round part pointed towards the interior of the plane. Now I've been stumped on how it goes from smooth side fighter to having that round shoulder with the three dots appear. If you look at step 3 of the transformation, the arm is coming free from where it's stored in fighter mode. Look carefully at the little triangle next to the intake. That whole area rotates as the arm swings out. In the diagram to the left of 4a, it looks like the connection to the upper-arm folds up against that area with the triangle, and the round shoulder pad slips over them both (see step 5). It's like the shoulder pad acts as a shell to cover the two parts there. I'm seriously not expecting the YF-21 toy to have the arms transform like that. Especially since it does have anime magic involved. I can't figure a way to have the shoulder pads stored in that little space under the wing, and have the arms seamlessly form that smooth side in fighter mode. But if you have the design works, get a good luck at pg90's transformation diagrams.
eugimon Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 ah, thanks for point that out... I've looked over that diagram countless times but never noticed that little bit with the rotating shoulder pads. Well, I guess if yamato is going to make it anime accurate, the double elbow joint on the yf-19 is going to look like child's play compared to this. Of course comlexity + yamato = nervous.
David Hingtgen Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 I've seen the rotating shoulder pads but still haven't figured that part of the diagram out. The D'stance is sorta like that, but not quite. The D'stance has another sliding joint----if you had the original Yamato YF-21, the forearm/tailfin could slide along the "inner" forearm. The D'stance has an additional part just like that--the shoulder pad can slide along the "inner" upper arm. Plus it rotates. And folds! And has a folding hinged part on its side. I don't know if the shoulder pad actually covers the "part with a triangle on it". (Sorry, I can't think of any aircraft term to use for there). I always figured that part somehow flipped or twisted its way inside to make room for the shoulder, ending up right behind the air intake. Look at step 6 (they're numbered out of order, it's the bottom pic of the sequence)---you can see under the shoulder pad, and it looks like the shoulder attaches directly to the side of the intake--so where's the part with the triangle on it? I think it moves somewhere. And also, look at the bottom-center pic of the entire page. The arm's removed, showing the shoulder joint.
Sumdumgai Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 (edited) Well, I never noticed that little part of the diagram before ( just like I never noticed the whole back half of the 21 moved up when transforming into gerwalk and battroid). I'm surprised that Yamato managed to pull of the YF-19 double-elbow joint. I haven't really read major amounts of complaining about elbow breakages. If Yamato can pull of the SV-51 with relatively few problems, and no major problems, I'll feel much more optimistic about any complexities involving the new 21 toy. I'm not even going to bother wrapping my mind around how the 21 can store all its body parts in that thin frame, and STILL have room for a butt-load of micro-missiles. My brain fries on that one. edit: for clarification that it's not just the nacelles, but the whole back half that moves. Thanks David for making sure I understood that part of the transformation! I appreciate it. Edited August 15, 2007 by Sumdumgai
eugimon Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 (edited) It looks to me like the shoulder pad rotates around the bicep and then slides into the cavity of the air intake. well, we all know how much shoji likes to utilize impossibly shared spaces on his more recent designs. Edited August 15, 2007 by eugimon
David Hingtgen Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Sumdumgai--it's not actually the nacelles sliding up. The entire back half of the plane moves. The nacelles stay attached to the rear fuselage. The split line is complicated---it goes along the front half the nacelles, but then goes straight over between them to incorporate the "flattened tailcone" area (called the beaver tail on the F-14, I'd call it a duck tail if anything) Everything aft of that moves up and over, basically sitting on top of the wings. See here: http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/toys/_...yamato_yf21.htm Third row are instruction book scans. Specifically, look at the center picture of this one: http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/toys/y...ionsinside2.jpg The nacelles/rear fuselage are moved into the "forward" position for both GERWALK and battroid.
eugimon Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Actually, it's not up and over, it's *in* and up, at least in the line art. The back plate slides underneath the top half of the back and the nacelles seem to lift up. You can tell because the rear portion of the fuselage buldge is still there and unobscured in battroid.
Sumdumgai Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 I'm not that familiar with the D'stance, although I know that it's been referred to a lot. I see what you mean with looking at step 6. Up until you pointed it out, I was thinking that maybe that portion of the arm that has the shoulder pad, folds up against the "part with a triangle on it" after it rotates to have the triangle facing down, and the shoulder pad slides down over that area. But now that you point out step 6, you're right it does look like it moved somewhere, since you don't really see any evidence of the part with the triangle on it... Dang it, I can't help but try to puzzle out these transformations. David- sorry I should have clarified when I wrote that. I know it's not just the nacelles, but the whole back half, I misworded it. Thanks for the links to the instruction book scans! I was puzzling over how the 1/72 21 did it, and forgot that those toy reviews had pics of the instruction book.
David Hingtgen Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Ah. Interesting, never noticed that. Center rear fuselage goes under center mid fuselage, nacelles slide over/above. The trailing parts of the wing just outboard of the nacelles stay fixed. The forward movement of the undersides of the rear nacelles/nozzle area closes up most of the gap left by the removal of the forearms. It basically looks the same before and after---very nice touch by Kawamori. You don't really notice anything's moved because everything arranges so well there's no big gaps or missing pieces.
Hayabusa Posted August 15, 2007 Posted August 15, 2007 Then again to think about it, this is a 1/60 compared to the 1/72 (that made the impossible, possible.) The fuselage itself is larger and can be made in a much thinner plastic which enables larger compartments for transformations as well as the shoulder, limbs, and body to fold over. 1/72 was a challenge (all varaints, Yamato, Resin, etc.) given it was much smaller, more fragile, and limited transformation joints. 1/60 should provide much more smaller complex mechanisms or gimmicks to have parts fold in and out in a concealed manner. Also those airintakes on the YF-21 would probably be as shallow like the SV-51, thus providing room for the shoulder joints to conceal in.
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